Edug27

Harbs looks uneasy with this press conference.

8 minutes ago, jazz1988 said:

If you think Joe Facco can't be accurate with throwing deep than you may not have  been paying  attention to him when he was throwing to Torrey Smith or even Jacoby Jones for that matter whom both are receivers that don't realy fight for the ball consistently. I will admit that Flacco was way inaccurate this year than in previous years but every quarterback has their down year from Matt Ryan, Philip Rivers, Cam Cameron, and more. It's just up to Joe Flacco to work more on being better next season and for The Ravens to hired a good quarterback coach who I hope is  Scott Turner or Greg Knapp.

I think Flacco has the arm strength and puts his wideouts in a position to make a play on the ball. He's great at it. But I wouldn't call him the most accurate though. Torrey was great at adjusting to find the ball and doing what was needed to make a play or draw the PI call. I don't see that in Mike Wallace. You need to drop that ball exactly where he needs it to be for him. Something Flacco isn't the best at.....  even more so now. I live around a bunch of Raven haters. Yes, it's depressing and stressful at times. But what they always say is that Flacco "drops back, closes his eyes and throws it as far as he can, and his receivers (or refs) bail him out" .... Now, that's a stretch and driven off of pure hatred, but I see where they are coming from... even if it's not totally accurate. 

2 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

I will freely admit that yes, this is the case right now.  I still like Perriman as the #3 option.  If you key in on his routes and overall inability to get out of his cuts, you'll see why.  There's no way you can count on him as a true starter at this point, but the positives are there.  I just think he needs some more time.

On Moore, I just don't see them putting too much trust into him just yet.  Again, I like him, but he's not near ready.  Too many easy drops and he fell out of favor rather quickly for that reason.

I'm not a huge proponent of Torrey either.  That was more just an example.  There are deep threats out there every year that can come pretty cheap.

One last thought on Wallace... I do think he is more than deep threat, but I don't know if he's more than that in Marty's offense.  He's good for a crossing route that he can take to the house, but I think he struggles a bit too much on staying strong on out routes and things of the sort.  In most other offenses, I think he's a great option.  In the Marty offense though, I don't know if he fits that well.

Wallace is ideal for an offense with a QB looking to air it out. A QB who is accurate with the deep ball because Wallace won't give you much fight if the ball isn't placed perfectly in his mits. He'd be great in New Orleans... or even back in Pitt. His numbers were solid in Baltimore, but it wasn't pretty... or consistent.. or effective when it mattered. You can say he's not a good fit with Marty, sure, but I also don't think he's a good fit with Flacco either.  

I also think the only way to get these young players ready are to give them the reps. Get them out there and you'll be surprised how well they develop. Sort of like we did with Torrey. There wasn't a lot to like early on with Torrey. Perriman made big strides over the course of the season. IMO, he's ready for the #2 WR spot. But I know I'm in the minority here. 

10 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

I've come around a bit.  It's all going to depend on them adding someone else though.  I don't think they can reasonably make the move unless (a) they already have another experienced chain mover option in place or (b) they feel they can definitely find another deep threat cheaper.  I don't think that's necessarily Moore, but maybe someone like Torrey who should be incredibly cheap based off of the awful year he had.  It doesn't have to be him, but just an example.  More than happy to admit I might have been a little strong in my opinion.  I'll still maintain that I believe it's likely he stays, but I won't attach myself to any "sure thing" type of claims.

They're usually pretty forthright in the State of the Ravens presser, so I'll be curious to see if the WR position is brought up and what they have to say about it.

Whether he stays or not was never the question. Ozzie sometimes falls in love with the vets as well (something I had accused you and others here of doing). I was just saying he shouldn't stay. More of an observation than a prediction. Hopefully Ozzie and Harbs come around as well. 

But I agree that a wideout should probably be brought onboard before letting Wallace go. That's understandable. And no thanks to Torrey. I think you have little to no faith in the young receivers we have here. I really like Perriman and Moore. Both have great speed and playmaking ability. I think their ability to make the tough (or easy I guess) catches will improve now that their rookie seasons are out the way. But the key is how much time Flacco is going to invest working with this group. He needs to be in perfect sync with them. It's the only way we are going to take the next step as an offense. The days of throwing the ball up to Boldin and having him out-muscle everyone.... or hoping Torrey can draw a PI... or hoping Rice can turn every check down into a first down..... are over. 

13 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

It depends.  I still think they have to add another receiver of the style they're looking for before they get rid of him.  If they don't, they keep him.  If they do find the other style guy, they drop him and look for a cheaper deep threat type of option to pair with the new guy.  I'm still leaning much more to the side of Wallace staying, though.

Right. Back in my original post last week about moving on from Wallace, I said...

Quote

- Speaking of the receiving core, I'd enter free agency looking to acquire a sure handed chain moving WR. I'm a Garcon fan, but that's just tossing a name out there. I don't think Mike Wallace is the guy this team needs.

It's all pretty much what you're saying now. And also, we have our deep threats with Perriman and Moore. Once they get time with Flacco and get enough reps in, they'll be explosive. 

1 hour ago, rmw10 said:

I do begin to wonder with Wallace now that Marty is staying.  I don't think he's a great fit for Marty's offense and his horizontal game.  I still think it's likely he does, but no longer as sure as I was.

You're starting to see the light I see.... 

2 hours ago, jimmypowder said:

Things went downhill fast like I expected when Kubiak left for Denver . 

We need someone of Kubiak's ability as OC and I don't see it with Marty . 

Pees is a good DC until the 4th quarter where we have lost more games with leads than at any time in Ravens history . He is not the answer either . 

No playoffs next year and John , Marty and Dean will all be gone , guaranteed . 

Missing the playoffs again won't get Harbaugh fired. As long as he has control of that locker room. Losing control of that is the only way he gets fired in the near future..

3 hours ago, usmccharles said:

Wow, should add a poll to this thread, cant imagine anyone here is happy about this. 

You'd have to identify someone better with a similar system. Plus, I don't think you'd go with a former coach who will be sure to leave for coaching again.

1 minute ago, rmw10 said:

Except they aren't comparable because one move was made in season while the other you're suggesting happens before the season.  I can guarantee there was no one calling for Young to go into last season as the de facto #2 CB.

So the timing is what doesn't make them comparable? Oh boy. If they both happened in season, then you'd argue that it didn't happen during the same week against the same opponent... 

But either way, we'll agree to disagree. I'm in favor of Wallace moving on. You aren't. It is what it is. 

17 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

Then I'm confused as to why you even brought up Young other than to point out the fact that I was wrong.

Regardless of Tavon's play and whatever that has to do with it now that I don't know what you're talking about, dropping Wallace and going with Perriman and whoever else would be an ill-advised decision based on what we know about Perriman right now.  The object should still be to keep Wallace, add another WR, and let Perriman continue to develop as the #3.

1. Wallace is a veteran who I think needs to be replaced by a younger player (Perriman), though he's not proven and most don't think should.

2. Wright was a veteran who I thought needed to be replaced by a younger player (Young), though he wasn't proven and most didn't think should.

3. Coaching staff eventually made the move (forced or not) and it paid off. I think the same would happen in this scenario.

So yes, both situations are very similar. And I bring it up also because you are involved in both. 

Just now, rmw10 said:

I'm pointing out that they didn't just give Young the position like you're suggesting they do with Perriman.

Furthermore, for every Tavon Young that steps up and does well, there are also 20 Chykie Browns and Tandon Dosses who do nothing.

Right. We covered that already. I referenced it in the post:

Quote

Right and I think the hestitaiton says more about the coaching staff more than anything. No way in hell Wright lasts that long on the field under Belicheck given that crap he displayed those first couple weeks. 

I'm not telling you what I think the coaching staff will do... I'm giving my opinion on what they should do. Both in the Young and Perriman scenario.

27 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

Except for the fact that Tavon Young didn't get his first start at outside CB until week 6.  Wright missed week 5 due to injury and was limited in week 6 because of the same injury.  It just goes to illustrate that they chose many options over Young until it got to the point that they essentially had no more.  They chose Sheldon Price, Jerraud Powers, and Will Davis over him.  He didn't just get handed the job like you're suggesting they do with Perriman.

What does that have to do with anything? I said Wright leading up until week 4... which was the time when I was having these debates. The coaching staff didn't make the switch until later. 

2 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

Wright actually had probably the best game out of any of our CBs all season in week 1

This debate took place well after week 1. That was the argument everyone kept making .. "did you watch him against the Bills".. but somehow missed weeks 2-4.

7 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

Difference being that Young was forced to step up due to injury.  They did everything they could to not have to move him to the outside, but eventually, they had to.  It worked out in their favor, but they used just about everybody else - Price, Powers, etc. on the outside before giving Young his chance there.

In Perriman's case, you're just expecting a guy who needs a ton of work to step up, take the reigns, and have no drop off.

Right and I think the hestitaiton says more about the coaching staff more than anything. No way in hell Wright lasts that long on the field under Belicheck given that crap he displayed those first couple weeks. 

2 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

Well, not when your telling me who im in love with and who im not.  Its like me saying you like cheese pizza, but you don't, but im going to keep insisting you do...so yea, I guess that's the exact definition of how message boards work

I guess you're getting caught up on the word 'love'. Bad word choice on my end. Apologies. But when someone argues that Wright doesn't suck and Young wouldn't be better or just as good in that same position.. you either love that player or unaware of how good the younger player could be. And I see the same here with Wallace. I could be wrong. That's why I ended one of my previous posts with "we'll have to wait and see". 

13 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

Not falling in love with vets, but okay.

I'm man enough to admit I was wrong on Wright.  I wanted Young to play but didn't want him going to the outside.  I (as well as most other people) never thought he would have played that well as an outside CB.  I was wrong.  I can admit that.  I had absolutely no love towards Wright though.

Young wasn't ideal on the outside. Just as Perriman isn't ideal to be a starter right now. That's obvious. But it's about understanding who we currently have and how young players would fair in that same position even though they haven't proven anything. Again, not beating my chest saying your wrong or I'm right.. Just identifying where we disagree I guess. 

7 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

Apparently we are all falling in love  with players he doesn't like 

Lol. Doesn't matter who I like. I gave my opinion and everyone gave theirs. So I'm just giving mine back. It's how message boards work right...?

31 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

Then I sure am glad that you aren't running this team, because that would likely be a disastrous WR group.  I like Perriman too but I don't think any reasonable person in the NFL would look at him and be willing to count on him as a full time starter at this point.

If I'm not mistaken, we had a similar debate after week 3 around benching Wright and inserting the rookie Young as a starter. Something you were highly against and I was advocating for. You're falling in love with vets man.

1 minute ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

I'm glad the fans don't run this team......

 

But wish we had a new OC. Damn you Harbaugh

Well, in both of these cases, you wish fans DID run the team right? Fans wanted to keep Boldin. Ozzie had other plans. And most fans want a new OC. But we'll probably stick with what we have.

While the saying "glad fans don't run this team" every thread is cute and all... it's not always the case. 

1 minute ago, rmw10 said:

Then I sure am glad that you aren't running this team, because that would likely be a disastrous WR group.  I like Perriman too but I don't think any reasonable person in the NFL would look at him and be willing to count on him as a full time starter at this point.

Well, 1. The people running this team have fielded a disastrous offensive group the last 2 seasons. It's time for a change up IMO.  and 2. I don't think many teams were in hot pursuit of Wallace as their starter either prior to this season. 

5 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

If you really believe that, you didn't watch the young WRs.  I like their potential for the future, but come on man.  Perriman has some really good plays in the mix but also a ton of easy drops and a ton of terrible routes.  I also like Moore, but he probably has as many drops as he does catches so far.  Relying on those guys with exactly 0 depth is how you end up with someone like Tandon Doss playing tons of snaps for you.  What happens if one of those guys gets injured?  I know you're proposing that we add someone else, but that's merely a lateral move that doesn't change the situation.

Oh I watched them. I liked what I saw from Perriman. I think he needs to replace Wallace, that's it. I think you'd be mighty surprised the production the young guys would give you given the opportunity. Of course they need work. So does Wallace. So does Flacco, and our playcalling. And maybe you don't let Wallace go until you secure a wideout in free agency. Sure. I get that. But, IMO, you don't need Wallace on this team next season if all works out. We'll see how it all shakes out I guess.

4 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

I counted 7 I believe.  You seem the one stuck on his name...

Sorry. 4 games of over 63 yards. My mistake. Good catch.

1 minute ago, rmw10 said:

Lol.  He's a product of the system yet everyone else on the receiving group pretty much had bad years?  You get on us for "loving" Wallace but it's clear you have some weird disdain for him.

Again... if Wallace and SSS got hurt in training camp and sat out... there would be inflated stats for all of our wideouts.. because somebody has to catch the ball. Just like you saw with Aiken last season. Don't fall in love with numbers man. Wallace did not have a consistent season... and hasn't been a consistent player in years. Game threads spent more time complaining about him than loving him. But whatever. 

8 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

Perriman, while trending up, still needs a ton of work.  He's very, very inconsistent.  You'd be making a huge mistake completely counting on him.  He deserves more snaps going forward for his development, but counting on him would be an awful decision.

The name has absolutely nothing to do with it though.  If that was Chris Moore on his back at the same salary, I'd be advocating for keeping him too.  He gave us production, and more than you believe apparently.

Idk man. I just see it differently when it comes to Wallace. Take Wallace's name off his jersey and just watch him play... You'd also say he needs a ton of work as well. He wasn't consistent himself. 4 games of over 60 yards. 1 touchdown in the last 14 weeks. Less than 60% catch% in those weeks as well. Disappeared/dropped/let get intercepted several big throws. I don't know what it is that everyone loves with him. Put the young players out there and they'll give you the similar production with those opportunities.

Just now, usmccharles said:

Yea, definitely not in love with Pitta and his 70 catches.  Its kind of contradicting of you to say we need better play calling and point out said issues with play calling then blame Wallace for that production of the play calling.  We can just agree to disagree, but I don't see how there is any scenario we are a better team without Wallace than with.  Like RMW said, doesn't make much sense to just cut him, spend money to bring someone else.  I want to bring Garcon in with Wallace still here.  But hey, BP and Moore as your number one and two....see how long it takes for this fan base to lose their mind.

We can definitely agree to disagree. Not blaming Wallace, but he's replaceable. His season was of product of Joe slinging it for a ridiculous amount of times. He wasn't a game changer out there. I'm a firm believer that Perriman can have the same success next season given that role.