Winchester

Boldin being gone was the FO's greed. They were only quibbling over a couple million dollars that they ended up wasting on scrubs like Huff, Spears, and Stokely.

 

The Pitta contract was absolutely stupid.

I agree about pitta. An early extension on a guy on ir?? The Rice contract was worse. A rb clearly slowing down and he gets money that had big cap hits into his 30s. Ridiculous!! Boldin trade was terrible because of ozzie's inability to find a replacement. Ozzie has a history of sitting on a pick and banking on one of the players the scouts love falling to them. And it bites the team more than it works out. In 2013 they lost Alec ogletree and Deandre Hopkins. In 2014 Allen Robinson should have been the selection in Round2. The edge rushers are both over 30. A replacement with talent to be a pro bowl edge rusher is not currently on the team!! How long does oz expect suggs and Elvis to be dominant edge rushers??!! Dominant edge rushers usually cost big $$ or significant draft picks!! But no cap space because oz has so much $$ tangled up in useless players. So where is a dominant edge rushers coming from?? Gregory should have been the round2 pick!! He has some issues to smooth out but how else are the ravens acquiring an edge rushers with top tier talent?? Yeah it is a gamble. But wouldn't you prefer to gamble on a player that actually has top tier skills?? Maxx is severely overrated!! He made some nice catches against very weak opposition. Anybody that gets any info about what happens behind cameras knows Williams was culture shocked at the muscularity,power and athleticism of NFL players from the time he showed up at rookie camp!! So Randy Gregory is a gamble but not perriman and Williams??

Oz is most to blame for this!! He was really content and dancing with optimism to enter the season with 36 yr old Smith, fragile campanaro and the undrafted dynamic duo Brown\Aiken?? With all his terrible draft picks/Busts and briefcases of $$ being payed to injury prone and erratic players or aging players, How is Ozzie not front and center in Biscotti's office on monday morning after a loss. Ozzie has thrown so much $$ and assets into tumbling stocks he should and would be fired if he were a stock trader or investor. His company would be bankrupt and applying for federal bail out $$!!

Hmmm  I can definitely prove that wrong if you want me too because the last time I check this has been the only season where The Ravens have been this bad in John Harbaugh era in like the past seven years.

I would take anybody up on trying to say Ozzie has had more success recently than failure. His failure has been more than double his successes. There are many failures of his nobody has even mentioned here yet. Oz is terrible. TERRIBLE!!

Yanda, Tucker and maybe osemele depending on his cost. The rest I will be happy to see go!! Grim I am so glad somebody finally agrees that upshaw is terrible!! Useless as an edge rusher in a throwing league. Good riddance Upshaw you bust!!

No. Keep the draft picks.

Keep the draft picks for what reason?? Great teams are built through the draft, trades and Free agency. It is knowing when to acquire a talent. Draft picks haven't yielded much to write home about. And in my opinion the offense is a #1 WR and healthy online away from being prolific.

Why close this thread now?? This is open discussion and as long as nobody verbally insults another member then opinions are welcomed. The defense is not going to be dominant this year. It can improve enough to get us by. However the only way this team goes on a winning streak is by an offense that can win shootouts with anybody!! To do that consistently they need a legit #1 WR that defenses fear. The offense performed OK overall but that dynamic element is missing. As a matter of fact once the Oline is healthy if they get a legit receiving option they could very well lead the NFL in scoring in December and the playoffs if they go on a run to make the playoffs.

You know something omerta, I to was optimistic about finding a featured WR in mid rounds. But WRs are going faster than ever before. My humble opinion, Ozzie needs to stop this nonsense of a makeshift receiver unit and aggressively get Joe some legit weapons. This hype on aiken brown was nonsense. He should have drafted Matthews or Robinson in 2014 and been more aggressive moving up for Hopkins in 2013. And this year he should have been more aggressive in drafting a #1. Cooper may have been to steep a price but am sure our Round1 and Round2 could have got us in position for White. I would give up a role type WR and a TE that is not special for an elite WR like White. I would have traded our Round 1,2 and 4 to draft Cooper. What would they really have lost?? In the long-run they are going to waste more assets on WRs because after using a #1 on Perriman they are going to continue to spend assets on WRs angways whether $$ or draft picks or both!! So it is better to do it right when selecting their feature WR. Furthermore these last 2 drafts were very deep in WRs. This was the draft to take multiple WRs!! 2011 was weak outside the top2 guys. I am a huge fan of Tyler Lockett!! Very savvy slippery explosive slot WR with outside skills as well like Antonio Brown have drafted Robinson last draft and doubled on DTs this year's draft. Through my rambling I am trying to say opportunities were there for WRs but Oz is not using the picks wisely. Sitting at 26 and drafting whichever WR that is left is not likely to yield a pro bowl caliber WR. I am so tired of peeps talking bout Joe Flacco. He has been as good as any QB would with his weapons. Even Brady is a different QB when Gronk is not in the lineup. When he had good weapons around him he performed at an mvp level. Our defense is not going to be dominant this year. If they want to compete for a championship this year then the Oline needs to get healthy and come together and they need to get Joe a legit #1 WR so come playoff time they could win a shootout with anybody. In my humble opinion Marqise does have elite separation skills, very route savvy and great body control and he will catch in traffic. Bortles has trouble timing him because of his sudden explosion out of his breaks. I just can't think of another WR with #1 skills s team would consider parting with that could be had for a round3-4 that won't blow the cap off the salary cap. I am not even sure Jacksonville would trade him even though they have lots of other young WR talent because of his upside.

The dude is no Julio Jones or any supreme talent in this league. It is easy to tell that because we would not be discussing him in a what if maybe scenario. The guy has less than 500 yards in 20 games, so lets pause his coronation as the second coming. 

 

 mid round pick would be ridiculous when you take into account what 3rd round picks can get. I think Ozzie knows this and wont waste the draft capital on a guy who can be found in probably the first 4 rounds of next years draft.

Can find a marqise Lee talent in round4?? Or any #1 WR in Round4?? They have never found a #1 WR in any round!! 500 yards through his first 1 1\4 seasons where he missed several games means he is not talented?? How many WRs did not accumulate yards through their first season or 2?? Most of them!! I would bet if I had time to read your posts I would find you more optimistic over far less talented WRs. Watch all the clips of him you can find and if you disagree with his skills?set I will respect your opinion. Btw are you aware that the ravens were going to draft his teammate with the #26 pick if he were available?? And his teammate is a very skilled receiver but anybody that played with or against the 2 talented WRs will tell you Marqise is the best

WR to attend USC recently. So if they were going to draft his teammate in Round1 I would consider him a bargain for a round3 pick. Wasting draft capital on Marqise Lee?? Yeah because Ozzie has not wasted any mid round picks recently!! Or early round for that matter. Brooks,Elam,Perriman,Brown,upshaw,,gradkowski,Doss,Reed,to name some of them.

Let's just say I do not agree that marqise will never surpass mediocre production here. Anybody who honestly thinks there is a marqise Lee in every round has never seen pro caliber WRs run routes practically side by side. OK he is struggling with injuries and getting acclimated. So what?? Would he be the first WR that needed a change of scenery to become a #1 WR?? Does it mean the raw talent is not there?? I went through this same thing when I posted under a different name here and kept saying Emmanuel Sanders had pro bowl potential. Of course there are WRs I would prefer over marqise to be traded for. A player injury free and coached up. But there's this thing called a cap. You want a difference maker player you need to either give up a round1 pick, you trade for a guy making $10mil or more per or you find the next Emmanuel Sanders or golden gate player before he breaks out. Is he an injury risk?? Absolutely. If he stays on the field does he have #1 WR talent?? Absolutely!! If the ravens do not find a #1 what are their chances of winning the championship this year?? My opinion it is a worthwhile gamble for a #3 pick. Without a legit shot at the championship there is no point in following football this season. Just look forward to the off season the draft and fixing the teams problems. Look i get it nobody wants to part with a #3 pick. Oz just spent a #1 pick on a WR who is not a feature WR type. More of a role receiver than a 10 catch a game guy. So why the anger over a #3 for a far more skilled receiver?? I'm hoping for Monroe to return and the online play dominant. Steve Smith return, maxx get acclimated, perriman stretch the field and add somebody the potential to be a #1wr playmaker and the ravens enter the playoffs with the offense blazing!! Not to many options to find the #1 WR. Marqise I do believe is a #1 if he can stay on the field and get acclimated with a good qb. I do not know of another the ravens could actually acquire that has #1 WR skills and lead a high octane offense into the playoffs. An offense that could win a shootout with the patsies or packers.

Speaking of Marqise Lee, he is out for week 5.

I talked with my friend whom lives near Jacksonville. The consensus down there, Marqise is a supreme talent that really impressed in practice " when he practices". Most fans and media believe he will challenge Robinson for #1 WR. Both are #1 WR talents whom had injury issues. The fact that media,coaches and fans know marqise will challenge Robinson for #1 WR speaks of his skillset. Because Robinson is on the cusp of breaking out as an elite WR. He has had some injury issues himself. As for Marqise his separation skills and sharp sudden routes and athletic body control is quite the show in practice. His injuries are not major but I do acknowledgeacknowledge of course he is a risk with his many minor injuries. With that said how else would the ravens acquire that type of upside?? They will not find a a WR with #1 skills in round3 easily. If you acquire a mediocre receiver you are not improving the offense. At least not to Superbowl contention. Is not that the goal?? If you get an elite talent there is potential there if he gets going and shakes the injury bug. I like marqise because of his long-term potential and there is not much of a cap hit. BTW jaguars have plenty of young talent at WR, just let them mature. And marqise was just an idea. I doubt they would trade him yet. To much upside.

I agree getting Monroe back is key to not only a better online but a dominant online which will tilt the whole offense to scoring more points. I have said all along our dominant online will help make the WRs better but without the left tackle the line must compensate. And it hurts chemistry and makes the whole line look bad. That is why I like marqise Lee. He will not hurt the cap, he will not cost a very significant pick. And if he can stay healthy he will be a great WR for the ravens. I know most don't agree but my opinion, they should have drafted Randy Gregory. Explosive speed rushers are hard to find. I know Gregory and Marqise wear buyer beware tags but they also have talent that can not be easily replaced. Talent that is necessary to win the championship. If you want to date the hottest girls, you have to sport the 6 pack. Trying to win the Superbowl without the necessary assets is like walking up to the prettiest girl on the beach with a beer belly and thinking you will convince her you are what is best for her. It is very unlikely to work out like you want.

He can not trust them on a consistent basis. That's the problem. Joe has to wonder "IF" they will win!! He does not expect brown or aiken to win. They are not contenders til they get some weapons Joe expects to win!! Simple as that.

you have ridiculous solutions to our problems, you overrate other teams players, underrate ours, and generally sound confused. marqise lee is about 1% as good as you claim he is, stefon diggs has an injury history and a tiny little frame and if he survives in the NFL then its a surprise(theres a reason he went so late). maxx williams is going to be a stud, dont worry, the kid is too natural a talent with his insane vice grip hands and dense body. and gregory? the dude was high as a kite AT THE DRAFT, youll see why we didnt pick him before his rookie contract is up, trust me on that, people were saying the same when justin blackmon and josh gordon were playing, look at them now.

Dense body?? Look at his combine pics. Especially running the 40. He looks like a WR carrying extra 20 lbs of flab. He has skills yes but he won't be a pro bowler til he gets in shape. Question is will he develop an NFL TEs body. Does he have the drive. In my mind he should have taken nutrition and training more seriously already. Not get to the NFL and get culture shocked at the muscularity, conditioning and athleticism of the pro players. He said himself he needs to cut out junk food and take training more seriously. He should have already been doing that!! Gronk entered the league already taking that stuff seriously!! I think maxx does have pro bowl potential but coming into the NFL fat and eating junk food and not spending enough time on the in the weight room and practice field is frustrating.

you have ridiculous solutions to our problems, you overrate other teams players, underrate ours, and generally sound confused. marqise lee is about 1% as good as you claim he is, stefon diggs has an injury history and a tiny little frame and if he survives in the NFL then its a surprise(theres a reason he went so late). maxx williams is going to be a stud, dont worry, the kid is too natural a talent with his insane vice grip hands and dense body. and gregory? the dude was high as a kite AT THE DRAFT, youll see why we didnt pick him before his rookie contract is up, trust me on that, people were saying the same when justin blackmon and josh gordon were playing, look at them now.

Totally agree with most you said!! Maxx has serious skills but he bothered me when he seemed totally clueless he would have to get in better shape to be successful in the NFL. It was like culture shock to him. But did not they only find trace amounts in Gregory?? With all the problems at WR nobody seems to notice the defense's rush has been kind of weak. With Suggs and Dumervil on the wrong side of 30 I just think a young stud speed rusher to learn under Suggs and Dumervil should have been a priority. And I know I am off subject here guys but allow me to touch on this. With today's NFL throwing the ball around like never before I think a dominant edge rusher and an all around ferocious rush is the key to another Superbowl!! Not a decent edge rusher but a dominant edge rusher to set the table for the defensive charge after the qb. And they are very expensive and very tough to find. And in my opinion Gregory's potential reward far outweighed his risk. We are not talking a top10 pick here we were talking a late round2. They will not touch Gregory's talent for less than a $70million dollar contract or top15 draft pick. As for marqise Lee I like him because II know a jaguar fan that lives 20 mins outside Jacksonville. And every jaguar fan can see he has legit skills. The injuries are a concern yes. But his slow acclimation to the offense is more on Bortles. Jag fans who watch him practice rave about his upside!! He is so fast and sudden in his breaks that Bortles has trouble timing him. The fans there that watched practices are upset about the minor injuries but they are more frustrated at Bortles and coaching for not getting him in the offense. I like hurns a lot but jaguar fans know marqise clearly has more speed and upside. That is what is coming from jaguar fans. They know marqise is just as good as Robinson, a little different kind of WRs and they feel them 2 receivers could be dynamic together. Outside the injuries The frustration in jaguar city is at coaching and Bortles for not getting him into the offense because they see the upside. It was just an idea to try to trade for him. I really doubt they would trade him yet because of his upside.

Man enough is enough we need to give up a high draft pick for a big-time wideout.

Best idea yet!! Every year WR is a weak position for the ravens. Drafting WRs has never been Ozzie's strength. Last year we were a complete WR away from another Superbowl grip. Same could be said for many other seasons as well. Every year it is some band aid at WR.Joe Cool has proven what he could accomplish with a legit unit of weapons. So why does oz continue to throw junkyard parts on a Ferrari?? Some very talented WRs were ignored in 2014. In 2014 Allen Robinson should have been the pick in rd2. Or this year oz should have traded up for amari Cooper or white and finally fix this WR issue. That is why I like Marqise Lee. He could be a long-term answer at WR while on his rookie contract and no real cap hit. Trading a #2 or multiple picks on a young stud WR is not mortgaging the future because a WR is needed anyways. I have doubts about perriman as a #1. I do not see 4.3 play speed nor any real wiggle,suddeness or craft to his routes. I would have liked for them to have double dipped at WR and drafted somebody like Diggs,Lockett,green,crowder,strong or anybody other than the straight linish slug Waller. My opinion Diggs had a skillset close to Cooper as does Marqise Lee. All around 4.45 guys but good functional play speed, flexible routes and athletic body control. Diggs was held back in college with injuries and qb play. I actually liked Diggs better than perriman. Not willing to pay currency or significant draft picks is why is reason WR is a need!! I do like Perriman but noway he should have been a round1 pick In my opinion. I am sure oz targeted some other players that were already drafted before the ravens were up because oz is unwilling to trade picks to move up. Trading a round7 pick for a teams #6 WR is not fixing the WR problem!! As for maxx Williams he is not an upgrade over Gilmore. In my opinion he does have skills for an Out of shape TE. At the combine he looked like a fat WR. I do think he could be one of the better TEs in the nfl if he adds some muscle and leans up. But Lockett or Gregory should have been the pick

you are seriously overrating marqise lee. he lacks the tenacity, the body control, the aggression, he basically lacks everything except for route running and athleticism when comparing to amari cooper. i still like marqise lee and think a change of scenery would help him have a decent career, but you are getting carried away, first odb now cooper.. most of us have seen plenty of lee, alot of us participate heavy in the draft forums and he was a favorite around here, so we have seen plenty from him, the thing is his ceiling was never as high as you are making it out to be, he lacks alot of what separates "elite" wrs from the "good" ones like catching in traffic and body control and general reliability.

Actually if you watch his practices, body control is his best asset. And he can make contested catches. His straight line speed is what is not elite. It is really good but not great. He does however have great route playspeed. Which is more functional anyways. I don't have time to participate in the draft forum but I do like to watch the wrs.

Yeah lee is the third best receiver inJackOncille. He's in no shape or form any type of number one plus he has not stayed healthy.

My opinion he is the best WR on the jags. Remember production is all bout system and chemistry. Steve Smith and Chad Johnson were at the same community college. Both were outproduced by another obscure WR. Marqise's injuries are minor. No reason to believe they will linger. As far as talent he is a phenom!! Watch his games and practices. He has all the talent of amari Cooper. He needs some coaching on hand placement but he has lightning acceleration, top notch athleticism, ridiculous burst and flexibility in his routes and he will catch in traffic. I maintained Steffon diggs had legit talenttalent to be a great wr that would show with a proper offense and qb. I liked him better than perriman actually not that I dislike perriman. But In my humble opinion he has better functional route running speed and shiftiness. Marqise has very similar skillset to amari Cooper. He would not be the first WR talent to flourish with a change of scenery.

NFL draft picks are like cars: they depreciate in value once selected unless they are very very special.

And that is a good thing. What are the odds of landing a WR the talent of marqise in round3 much less 4.

I think Marqise's play speed is far more functional than Perrimans. I would like Perriman to watch Lee and learn route running. And see how to build functional route running playspeed. And learn how to put his 4.2 speed to the Pavement. Perriman and Lee could be an unstoppable dynamic duo for years. Then maxx build an NFL body like he acknowledges he is making a priority and he will be faster and stronger and the Raven offense could be that juggernaut they dreamed. Have to get Monroe healthy as well and by playoff time the offense should be done spinni g its wheels and burning out. And coasting effortlessly.

I thought I read that his transition to the NFL hasn't been a good one

His chemistry and transition to the jags and bortles has not been a good one. lol, A ridiculously talented WR!! Watch his practices, his breaks are instantaneous and he has rubber ankles. He has good hands, great athleticism and leaping skills and an extra gear when he needs it. And most of all he will catch in traffic. He only needs an offense and a good qb. He will not be the first great WR that needed a decent team and a better qb. For a 3 he could be the steal of this decade.

ehh, i love marqise lee, loved him in college, wanted him on the ravens, BUT, you seem like you may be overrating him a tad bit. he is in no way on odb's level, and with his nagging injuries im not sure i would trade a 3 for him, especially considering that our draft pick may be a little higher than usual next year. 

 

i would give a 4th for him in a heartbeat, but not a 3rd. 

 

also has anyone put any thought into us having a potentially high draft pick next year, making ozzie hold back on trades? maybe he sees a top 15 pick in the future for us and doesnt pull the trigger because he knows we have better value with a top 15 pick in the first 3 rounds than what we can find on the market?

I get what you are saying flex. But we need a longterm talented WR to grow to our #1. Odds are stacked against us finding a talent like marqise Lee in round2 much less 3-4!! Watch his highlights his practices. He is phenomenal!! He is as quick in his breaks as a young Chad Johnson and he makes contested catches in traffic like Boldin. He is every ounce the athlete Beckham is. Before a freshman qb and minor injuries he was a top10 draft pick. He is far more polished and accomplished route runner than perriman. He and perriman could give Joe a dynamic tandem for years to come!!

How about Marqise Lee?? He is falling out of favor due to various reasons. Mostly the other young WRs have better chemistry with Bortles and minor Injuries. The jags are high on rookie Greene as well. They could trade Marqise for a 3. Word has it his chemistry has not grown with Bortles as fast as the other WRs and he is so fast in his breaks Bortles has had problems timing him. But elite talent remains. Oz has to give up significant compensation for a quality WR at some point. His raw talent is comparable to Odell Beckham. Golden Gate does not compare. Lee has legit #1 WR talent