Winchester

To move from the back 20s (mostly where we pick) into the top 15 is likely to cost you at least an additional first round pick. So cool, you got a good player, but you won't be getting one the next season.

 

Hindsight is easy for fans. Obvious to say who you would pick when you already seen how they perform. Most pointless aspect of being a fan.

And he is actually good. Just imagine if you give up the farm for someone like RGIII. It's better, imho, to just strike out on Matt Elam and try again next year.

Of course you never trade up for a qb more known for running. Especially 3 round1 picks!!lol And no it is not better to keep striking out on Matt elams, upshaw,Cody's, and perriman. That is why the team is so terrible!! Even the so called "Hits" have not been game changer spectacular!! Jimmy Smith and Mosley. Not saying trade 2 round1 picks to move up. But a round2 pick in most cases will get you into the top16. It is about making small moves to move up several spots to get a player your organization believes in. Not just waiting for the hat to get to you and grab whatever name is in the hat!! That is why the team is so terrible. And fans are trying to pimp mediocre players as gems. Like the fans who truly believed aiken and brown were starter caliber. Starter caliber if you want a 1-5 team maybe. Not a championship contender!! Oz has been way to conservative. This team would look much better with Harrison Smith and Deandre Hopkins over busts like Elam and Scrubshaw. How much would it have cost to trade up for Hopkins or Dez Bryant or Gronk?? Oz is not even playing the drafts strengths. 2014 and this draft was the time to draft WRs early and double up on WRs. BTW hindsight is Ozzie's job!! Drafting fat max over Gregory Darby or Lockett is a mistake. As is drafting perriman over trading up for a more solid pick. Ozzie's drafting lately has been loaded with busts while overlooking impact players. BTW my uncle is the scout. I do not claim to be a pro scout in any way!! When players I like in the draft are consistently far better than Ozzie's picks are, it means his drafting is awfully terrible!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BTW how many here is aware the ravens wanted Dez and Gronk?? But the so called wizards act was out performed by the cowboys and patriots because conservative Ozzie did not want part with a mid round pick to trade up. Biscotti had to order him to trade up to secure Flacco!! This myth/excuse it takes an extra round1 pick to move up several to 10 spots on the board is just another excuse to defend Ozzie. The excuses for ozzie far outnumber ozzies successes lately!!

Rick Wagner, Carl Davis, Juice, Brandon Williams, Jimmy, Kelechi, Crockett Gillmore, CJ Mosley, Tim Jernigan, and Zadarius Smith have all been impact players thus far in their careers, whether or not you see that.

By your definition over half the league are gems!! Jimmy is eratic,zadarius is not a gem,jernigan has struggled this yr without ngata,Gilmore is about average,Carl davis is a typical run stuffer,kelechi is a gem, Mosley is a gem and wagner is struggling this year. A gem is top10-15 at your position depending on your position. Most of those players are midle of the pack.

Overall Ozzie has usually found 2 gems in each draft that are of use.  2010 was his worst that I can recall, but we didn't really seem to suffer for it.  I'm sure though someone might look back on the picks Ozzie traded away in the first round and can insert some other player that could've taken that made it to the pro bowl, but that's revisionist history and N if L.  The reality is that there aren't many teams better at drafting overall and most tend to be better at some postions than others. 

 

The issue as I see it now is not so much the draft picks, but the free agent pick-ups that have just fallen flat.  If you think our team wins because of 2 standout rookies each season then you have another thing coming.  The free agents we've signed in the past 3 seasons are mostly desperation move - mid-season replacement players aka the bottom of the barrel. 

 

The fact they we seem to be in this mess each year now seems like two reasons - conditioning and salary cap.  Our salary cap is getting out of hand and we have like $7-10M wrapped up in personnel that is no longer on the team.  That number might not get much better in 2016 especially when Joe's salry is doubled.   So I get Ozzie and DeCosta trying to get more for less" and valuing his draft picks, but the low to mid-level talent that they're trying to cultivate hasn't panned out since 2012. 

 

In any event players need to be protected from the rigors of the season and conditionin is paramount to prevent injuries.  From 2012 to 2014 the Ravens have been ranked the 3rd healthiest team, but our injuries seemed to be concentrated generally by position.  This year we've had 26% of the 53-man roster go on IR so far.  Therefore, they may need to do better with their conditioning.  I'm not sure if the conditioning coach has failed or that Harbaugh as slacked off of that aspect somewhat, but it has to get better.  Three out of our four last seasons worth of injury bugs truncating our post season has to stop.

Players of use are not gems!! Most of the starters drafted that are "of use" that you label successful draft picks is the reason they are 1-4. Championship teams draft impact players!! Oz has done very little of that lately!!

This what I see :

 

2015 : Unknown but the only standout has been Nick Boyle and sometimes Davis when he doesn't take plays off

 

2014 : Mosley looked great rookie year, this year just average. Jeringan plays hard when he wants to, Gilmore looks good.

 

2013: Brandon Williams is the stud, Juice is ok and Wagner has looked terrible this year.

 

2012: KO is the only worthwhile mention

 

2011: Jimmy Smith looked good until this year, Torrey was good while here.

 

2010: Disaster beyond Arthur Jones and Pitta

 

2009: Oher was decent, Kruger played well his final year, Webb was good till hurt.

 

2008: Flacco and Rice were tops

Good post bro!! However we can not applaud mediocrity or a touch below average drafting. I say oz has been below average since 2010 because his overall amount of starters may be about average but most teams draft at least one game changing all pro building blocks in 7 years of drafting. And you really have to take into consideration the massive amount of impact players Ozzie shunned for the busts and mediocre role players. It is quite an impressive list of players available. Then his drafting has been way to conservative!! Ozzie has a propensity to hoard draft picks and not trade up when his scouts advise. Deandre Hopkins would look really good right now!! As a matter of fact we would likely be 3-2 or better right now. But Ozzie did not want to part with the draft pick to move up several spots. My point is this, role players come a dime a dozen. Cheap in free agency, or cut from other teams strong at that particular position. All pro building blocks are harder to come by. Ozzie has been waaaay to conservative and when he does trade up it has been round2 for busts. Yes I am going out on a limb and calling max a bust or mediocre at best!! He will have to reshape his flabby bod and work very hard on his craft to be a legit weapon. Oz has not even played the drafts strengths. 2014 Robinson should have been the pick. 2015 Lockett should have been the pick over max. The best of a bad TE class is still a bad TE. In a stouter division and in the 2010 class Max would have been a mid to late round pick.

This year's draft class is looking atrocious. Carl Davis seems to be the best pick but he was not the best DT on the board.

Exactly, And people don't get how they got those picks....  They had to bottom out to get those  top picks.... Like Atlanta who went 2-14.  Detroit 0-16, etc.

That is why you trade up. Maybe not into top 10 picks but top15 and gm trust his judgement that trading away picks that yield role players will yield a game changer. Every body has acknowledged those players are hard to find, essential for a championship and mostly come in top20 picks. So how can anybody applaud Ozzie for being conservative and not aggressively replacing our impact players. Oz has not found an impact bargain in years and years. Allen Robinson and randy Gregory should have been the picks over jernigan and fat max.

And if you're wrong?

Then I'm wrong. Rub it in, call me what you want and remind me as many times as you would like.

When perriman/Fat max are mediocre or total busts the excuse makers for oz are going to have to get creative.... Popcorn anybody??

Under what rainbow would we find the money to pay Maclin?

It could be done by moving $$. BTW Ozzie's terrible signings are reason for salary cap probs. A high payroll and laughable talent means a bad job by the GM.

I think this has to be one of the more inane and arduous threads to read that I have seen in a long time. I am NOT going to say that Ozzie Newsome is infallible, or that he is not made his share of contract blunders. I do think, however, that when you look at his track record comparatively to the rest of the general managers in the league that he is actually made a lot of the smarter choices.

 

Does anybody remember Danelle Ellerbe? Remember how everybody said that we were losing out on some great young talent? Yeah, the guy is fighting for an NFL roster spot right now.

 

Remember Tom Zbikowski? I remember the murmurs of people saying we are losing out on another young talent who is coming into his own.

 

How about Jameel McClain?

 

How about Haloti Ngata?

 

What about having the cojones to let ed Reed walk?

 

What about Jamal Lewis?

 

All of these were guys that people said if we didn't bring back we would be idiots, only to go on to find out that they only have one or two more successful seasons with their respective new teams if that.

 

As far as the draft goes betting on human potential is one of the hardest things on the planet to do. You can look at any team in the NFL and find a draft bust, and odds are you can find some pretty horrid drafts by that team. Go look at some of the Patriots draft in the last five to seven years you're going to see your entire draft class is littered with just scrubs. The difference is Tom Brady hangs up 40 points a game with no name receiver except forJulian and Gronkowski, that is all that Tom Brady needs to work with. On the other side of the ball, bill has long been regarded as one of the better defensive mines in the game and certainly one of the best of his era.

 

Look at the Packers with Datone Jones, I bet they wish they had that one back.

 

I could go on and on and on about how other teams have success and how other teams fell in the draft, but if you look at it objectively you come to the conclusion, at least most of us, that just about every team has their share of successes and failures in the NFL draft and free agency. People are sitting here saying we don't make enough splash's look at the dolphins, how is Ndamukong Suh working out? That is not some random one off or factoid, that happens every single year in the NFL.

 

As to where Ozzie Newsome  ranks comparatively among his contemporaries is purely subjective by anyone. I think as far as the sustained success goes nobody can argue that anybody does it better than Ozzie Newsome in my opinion. Now lately you can look around and say teams have drafted better and you can probably have legitimate arguments to that fact. That being said yes we had a rough draft in 2012 but the last two drafts have been home runs in my opinion and with many. Breshad Perriman not playing, and Max Williams not getting acclimated as fast as it appears misconstrued. That's that look at guys like Carl Davis, and Nick Boyle. Those are two young players were only going to get better and for Carl Davis that is a scary proposition for most teams.

 

I think in summation those calling for us to be fired or a tad shortsighted considering this is one of a couple bad seasons in the last 20 years, I think most teams in the league would take that. I think those calling for some accountability to be had sure I can agree with that, however, I think we really need to assess our coordinators, some of our position coaches, and maybe even head coach depending on how things play out the rest of the season, although I do not think Harbaugh isn't any real danger to this point. And go from there, I think one thing that is lacking is a true identity, however the that will come in some of our very young guys step up into the leadership roles. We are a team in transition at the moment, and there is nobody and I mean no, but I would rather have Ozzie Newsome.

Seriously??!! Fire coaches for the team having low talent?? That is trying to imply the ravens are a very talented team. lol

Cool. So then provide me the name of who should be GM of this team AND why he will be a better GM than Ozzie? What is his background? What experience does he have evaluating talent and running an organization well?

 

These guys are harder to find than good QBs...

So um... how do you know how Perriman will perform and what makes a glorified popularity contest, the measuring stuck for a players talent?

You're here crying with no solution to the problem...

There's also the fact you're wrong.

And pick up Maclin? Why not just keep Torrey then. Why bother keeping this going when you don't even have a slight understanding of the cap.

Seriously?? Maclin is far more complete than torrey!!

Daniel jerimiah has been very very spot on with his draft analysis!! But the ravens have a particular scout that has been very very accurate. He was right about trading up for Hopkins and he was correct about upshaw and elam being busts. He lobbied for Allen Robinson,Tyler Lockett and trading up for Dez and Gronkowski. He wanted Geno Atkins and navorro Bowman drafted over Cody and Kindle. I hear He has caught Biscottis attention even if oz has been to proud to acknowledge his accuracy. Oz was accurate at one time but he is no longer in his prime. When Perriman and fat maxx bust he will be under fire.

11, 12 and 14 drafts were horrible, huh? Even in 13, an atrocious draft CLASS, by the way, we got 3 starters. What do you qualify as a good draft?

2012 was terrible!! Traded away Harrison Smith landed bum upshaw!! 2 out of 3 early picks were busts!! 2013 landed a solid starters but nothing of impact. The top 2picks busts!! Jernigan has struggled without Ngata next to him. 2011 was OK but nothing special. Jimmy has been erratic. Wagner has been terrible this year. And finding starters means nothing when they are mediocre!! BTW in 2013 his scouts begged him to trade up several spots for Hopkins. Stubborn Ozzie said relax he will be there when on the clock. 2010 his conservative stubbornness cost the ravens Dez Bryant and Gronkowski!! Then he trades up for brown a bust and fat maxx Williams a mediocre player/Bust!! All these so called starters and the ravens are 1-4. No game changers type players in years!! BTW, calling the 2015 draft a bust already. Perriman will not play to round1 status. Maxx Williams will not be an elite TE. Hope to be wrong about that. But Williams looks very slow. Boyle looks better than him moving around. Fat max looked good against very weak college opposition. Lockett or Gregory should have been the round2 selection. Diggs will outplay Perriman. Going out on a limb here so gloat if you can if fat max or perriman happen to be impact players.

We were on of the older teams in the league. Ozzie realized positions needed to be rebuilt. We keep those some of those guys, who didn't retire, and we're just facing the problems a little later. Guys always want to see youth brought in. In juries and growing pains. Deal with it.

As for the Pro Bowl argument. KO has never made a pro bowl and Flacco never voted as well. Jimmy didn't either, even when playing well and I'm pretty Hill didn't last year. Good players don't always make the pro bowl and there's also the fact, who. You draft late in the firat, as we had been, it's harder to get immediate, impact players. I don't think it's a coincidence that after 8-8, good draft position, guess what? Our rookie made pro bowl...

More excuses!! But totally not viable!! Many pro bowlers come in late round1 and round2. Oz has plain missed!! Why not trade up several slots?? Would you prefer 1 all pro or 2-3 role players/Busts?? Like I said to conservative. That draft was loaded. Mosley made the pro bowl but certainly was not the best selection at that spot!! If oz can not identify a WR, why not admit it and trade for one or signed Maclin?? Instead he picks perriman who will not play to Round one status. And of course Ozzie's flock will defend him and make excuses if he is mediocre or a bust.

We were on of the older teams in the league. Ozzie realized positions needed to be rebuilt. We keep those some of those guys, who didn't retire, and we're just facing the problems a little later. Guys always want to see youth brought in. In juries and growing pains. Deal with it.

As for the Pro Bowl argument. KO has never made a pro bowl and Flacco never voted as well. Jimmy didn't either, even when playing well and I'm pretty Hill didn't last year. Good players don't always make the pro bowl and there's also the fact, who. You draft late in the firat, as we had been, it's harDer to get immediate, impact players. I don't think it's a coincidence that after 8-8, good draft position, guess what? Our rookie made pro bowl...

You guys are using excuse after excuse then illogical sarcasm to defend Ozzie!! Cut Tucker??!! Now if Tucker really has failed as much as oz, he would have been cut long ago!!! The teams talent is terrible. Oz has drafted terrible!! Let me ask this question. What is the excuse going to be when Perriman and Fat Max Williams are mediocre to downright busts?? Are you guys still going to make excuses for Ozzie?? The fact that you have to make excuse after excuse for oz proves he has been terrible since 2010.

I think some people on here dont have realistic expectations, you cant win every single year and you cant draft superstars every draft.  The patriots have the best qb of all time and the best coach....doesnt matter who else is there. 

 

I do disagree with somethings we have done as an organization and Oz's drafting and FA moves, but to say he needs to go is out right stupid.  As someone else brought up, theres a reason why hes been here for so long and other teams go through GMs and dont win as much.  Its not because he is Steve's best friend, its because he is great at his job. 

 

And heres something that needs to be mentioned to all the people about these big FA signings we never do:  every year we are super cap tight but yet bring in different role players, if we go out and pay one guy, guess what?  we cant bring in those other guys.  Maxwell is working out real well in Philly huh? You dont become a consistent team by signing one good FA, you get an influx of talent at multiple positions.  Its also very hard to judge what Oz has done considering two contracts on the books we have zero return on right now that were at key positions, but we will never know the result if one wasnt a wife beater and the other wasnt made of glass....so its a "what if"

 

At first reading your responses i was annoyed but then i realized you are just like skip bayless, you say things for the shock value, ive learned to take it as entertainment.

They are tight against the cap because of bad signings. Both the pitta rice signings were bad among many others. Rice clearly already lost some burst when he was signed and pitta was signed to a contract with no out while he was on injured reserve already!! Maxwell hasn't worked out so that means it is not a good idea to sign impact players?? They have not signed impact players they have not drafted impact players they have not traded for impact players except Dumervil in 5 yrs now!! That is why they are so terrible right now!! How many other teams failed at drafting a single superstar since 2010?? Cj Mosley is the only player you could remotely argue is. That is 6 drafts and about 50 draft picks that have yielded no game changers. Let's hear some more excuses!!

I think some people on here dont have realistic expectations, you cant win every single year and you cant draft superstars every draft.  The patriots have the best qb of all time and the best coach....doesnt matter who else is there. 

 

I do disagree with somethings we have done as an organization and Oz's drafting and FA moves, but to say he needs to go is out right stupid.  As someone else brought up, theres a reason why hes been here for so long and other teams go through GMs and dont win as much.  Its not because he is Steve's best friend, its because he is great at his job. 

 

And heres something that needs to be mentioned to all the people about these big FA signings we never do:  every year we are super cap tight but yet bring in different role players, if we go out and pay one guy, guess what?  we cant bring in those other guys.  Maxwell is working out real well in Philly huh? You dont become a consistent team by signing one good FA, you get an influx of talent at multiple positions.  Its also very hard to judge what Oz has done considering two contracts on the books we have zero return on right now that were at key positions, but we will never know the result if one wasnt a wife beater and the other wasnt made of glass....so its a "what if"

 

At first reading your responses i was annoyed but then i realized you are just like skip bayless, you say things for the shock value, ive learned to take it as entertainment.

It is stupid to follow Ozzie mindless of the fact that the drafts since 2010 have been terrible!! Yeah everybody drafts busts but the ravens have been near the bottom of the NFL since 2010. And not to mention Ozzie has been very conservative drafting. Ravens lost Bryant and gronk in 2010 because Ozzie was stubborn about moving up. He was completely outsmarted and out maneuvered by Dallas and the patsies. And ended up with 3 busts in Cody kindle Dickson. Same in 2013 his scouts loved Hopkins and oz put his neck out and said he will be available when on the clock. Again the ravens ended up with a bust!! Then he trades up in round2 after losing out on his round1 targets and traded up for a bust in brown. 2 of his top 2012 picks were busts. He did not move up this draft and ended with perriman. Who does not have legit #1 skills. Then trades up for fat max Williams who is not as good as the te the ravens already put on the field. Then lets not get started on the contracts oz handed out with no escape routes in the contracts. And they are biting the ravens now.

upshaw is an immense bust. people don't bring him up as being another reason for our struggles but he is. He's abysmal. We are overrated in the scouting department. We haven't drafted any superstars in YEARS..not 1. Cj is a really good player..he's a quality LB but he's not a superstar. We are living off our 90's early 00's drafts. We have been ''okay'' in drafts since 2007..not great..and been pretty awful in some years.

 

the media are too far up ozzies behind and the organization believes its hype

here is the reality. we are 20-20 since the SB and almost missed the playoffs last year..missed it in the year before and will miss it again.

 

Harbs needs to be under the microscope because he's not a humble enough dude and thinks he's bigger than the team. He's too proud. 

 

we need to draft better..because the reality is, we have drafted poorly..

 

joe flacco needs to come back down to earth contract wise..we have been a worse team since his ridiculous contract. He's never been a top 10 QB..EVER. 

 

I'd ask him to take a paycut/restructure or i'd trade him. He isn't a QB that should be deemed untouchable.he's really really average for the most part and needs to have a team that makes him win..he can't take a team to a win. he's had 3 chances with final drives to make something happen..if you are a top notch QB..you at least win 1 of those games.

I agree with everything you said. Why is everybody wanting Upshaw back?? He needs to be replaced with somebody that can pressure a qb!! I been saying it since he was drafted. He is terrible!! He should never ever been an early round pick!! Our drafts have been terrible!! The ravens haven't drafted an all pro in years now. And they keep losing pro bowlers. Dumervil and Suggs will both be well over 30 next year and they ravens do not have any dynamic explosive edge rushers on the roster to replace them. The ravens are so bad because of drafting. However, I do like Joe Flacco if they got him some legit WRs. The ravens WRs are a joke!! Perriman was a long reach because WR became a huge need. Oz should have addressed WR in the 2014 draft a couple times. Or through a trade or free agency. It is really tough to justify attacks on Joe Flacco when his weapons are a joke.

And like it or not the best and fair comparison to perriman coming out of college is Troy williamson. Which will tie Ozzie with millen for WR round1 busts

dont pay attention to these guys lol.

 

they obviously are big fans of matt millen who spend several drafts wasting 1st rounds picks on WRs  before finally landing Calvin Johnson      

When it comes to selecting WRs Ozzie makes Matt Millen look like Nostradamus.

I think if you switch KO and upshaw then the picks are ok.

 

I don't think we've been poor at drafting, I think we've only been ok.  And in this league ok is going to lose a lot of games.

Seriously?????!!!!! Upshaw is terrible. Totally useless as an edge rusher!! Oh and has anybody noticed this is a passing league!! So when the ravens run into a hot elite qb in the playoffs or Superbowl, what is upshaw going to do?? Set the edge?? And he is overrated at that!! You see that is when you know oz has been terrible in the draft. When you take subpar players and pimp them out as being okay. Even if upshaw is mediocre. Mediocre players will get you to a 5-11 record if not playing next to game changer type players. Trading up at times is the way to go on occasions. It is the most proven way to get the building blocks of a championship team. Oz has never demonstrated the skills to find much pro bowl talent in rounds 2-4. He still gets far to much credit for drafting Ogden over Phillips. Ray Lewis was pure luck. Oz wanted LBs and Ray was the best that was left. And turned out to be the best of the bunch. Who wouldn't trade perriman and maxx for Kevin white?? Or perriman maxx and Allen for Cooper or White?? White could easily be the better WR anyways. Perriman Maxx and Allen are nothing special and easily replaced. A game breaker WR that sets the table for the other weapons is not easily replaced. Same thing with edge rushers. Very imperative these days!! Randy Gregory should have been the pick. A very reasonable risk for a player that the ravens will not have a crack at again. Because to all the In oz we trust flock. Do you guys think this defense gets fixed in one year?? Suggs and Dumervil will be a year older. Still need a safety another mlb and corners. Not to mention jernigan has regressed. That's another thing. Oz overlooked some great WRs that year.

I'm gonna wait til your movie comes out 'cause I don't have time to read your novel but I like most of what I read in the 1st chapter. Its where you say "screw the defense go win some games for us Joe" that I have the problem. Ask Dan Fouts and Don Coryell how that worked for the Chargers team, nicknamed "Air Coryell."

As bad as the defense looks it is not that bad!!lol They do have some players that have performed well but are underperforming as of now. By playoff time they could be pretty respectable. And I never said ignore fixing the defense altogether!! I said get Joe a WR that some team thought was actually worth drafting. Not these undrafted jobbers that should have never been anything more than training camp fodder. And give Joe a shot to be a franchise qb and carry the team. Besides did not fouts choke in playoff games?? That is not Joe cool. Several recent superbowls were shootouts. Get Joe a legit high end #2 WR at least to pair with SS when he returns. I bet even Ozzie could handle getting Joe a legit NFL caliber WR without ignoring the defense completely In the off season. Brown and Aiken can be more of former NFL garbage turned cfl stars.

Julio wasn't even the first WR taken in that draft by the way let alone a once every 5 year talent. Calvin Johnson was when he was picked.

On another note, I don't have the time to read through that entire thing and give you a good counterarguement. Try to at least organize your thoughts into paragraphs as it makes it easier for all involved as opposed to a big wall of text. I'll give you this from what I have read.

Basically my thoughts are that we can always move up a few spots for a player but since I didn't hear the phone calls it is kinda hard to know what the terms are or if teams are even moving down.

I also think the Ravens had really high hopes on Perriman this year, I feel that we should have at least had a backup plan if he wasn't ready but oh well. The injury there is what is killing us because he was going to be our speed threat to make things easier for everyone.

Dude I am a writer\actor. And it is nice to just not have to stress all that organization and kick back and talk some NFL. If you want organization i will post my plays.lol, if you want to talk football this is the way i write. Sorry. I did not want to talk fault of a 1-4 record. But sorry oz has been terrible. I do not have time to put out thefe all his terrible moves and the crestivity, hindsight and assertiveness that are not present In his rookie I like your post. But just cuz Julio was not the first receiver taken does not mean he wasn't rated higher than Cooper. Has to do with the draft and who is available. Maxx went In round2 and is not nearly the player pitta is when healthy. Just a terrible year for TEs!! Williams played in a weak division and is far overhyped!! Watkins was rated a touch lower than Jones or green and Cooper was rated a touch lower than watkins. However I personally like Cooper better. Watkins is the better more dynamic athlete but Cooper is smarter and more dedicated to his craft. But I do think the raiders did not want to trade out of range for Cooper or white. So I agree it would have been steep. I like that you agree counting on a a raw rookie. Especially when he appears to be a role type WR than featured WR. I was following the draft this year but i got busy with work and a beautiful sweet girl and did not have room In My schedule to post. (And she actually agrees with everything i say and roots for the ravens even though she is not from maryland and dislikes\criticizes Ozzie's decisions with me and calls for him to be replaced, lol) Anyways Perriman caught my eye before I stopped posting. He looked to have good speed and athleticism but very raw and showed little moves craftiness in his routes to be a true #1. When he was still projected to be a round4-5 pick I posted some team was going to pick him in round 2 or even one!! I just did not think it would be the ravens!! Because I do not

See him as a #1 feature WR. Especially his dad being a WR he should be far more polished than he is!! Which means he does not have the natural instincts,savvy or innovativeness to be a featured WR. No way should oz have put his chips forward on a receiver that raw to start!! Should have made a move for WR. BTW Allen Robinson was a round2 pick and is a far better prospect coming out of school. Trading up is essential to replace pro bowlers. Oz's drafts have not replaced any departed impact players. Now age is catching suggs and dumervil and there are no dynamic explosive game changing edge rushers to coach up and replace them currently on the roster. I do think Joe can run the table if we acquired a legit WR to partner with SS and got the oline back intact.

Trading up is a good idea sometimes and sometimes its not.  If we traded away a majority of our mid round picks for 1 impact guy then we would be stuck with the same problem we have now, we have no quality depth.  We have drafted fairly well over the last few years considering we are always picking late in the rounds.  I would not consider Perriman a bust until he plays games and we see what he is made of.  Elam is still young and could turn into a decent backup for us, obviously not what you want from a first round pick but its something.  Our team stinks right now but we have to try and find the positives, because there is a lot of good we can build on moving forward and hopefully have a quick turnaround for next season

Our problem is not quality role players or depth. It is no game changer type players. Depth can be found anywhere. Game changers can not. Why talk about depth when starters are terrible

Because teams don't just give high picks away. You know how the Falcons got Julio? By giving up so much in draft picks, they are just now getting back to being good. Our depth is bad enough as is as well. And if the player we trade up for doesn't pan out? Sets you back for years

Of course you don't give up that much for one player!! Even though an argument can be made Jones is a once every 5 year talent. Impact players can not be replaced. Role players come a dime a dozen. If the player does not work out you trade up for then it does not set you back any further than when your late round1 pick is a bust and your round2-4 picks are busts and role players!! This team has lost impact players and not replaced them!! The so called wizzard should have been making moves to replace and or add the impact players. I can not believe what I am reading on this board. Everybody is making excuses for oz not having top10 picks then defending his decision to sit on the picks and load the roster with busts and role players!! Forget Ozzie's busts and bad signings. Name ONE impact player added in the last 6 drafts. Mosley is the only one you could remotely make a case for. Dumervil is the only impact free agent that has been added in the last 9 years. Unless you count Steve Smith a 2 year rental. By his own acknowledgement he is a #2 at the current moment of his career. It is amazing nobody wants to give up a #3 pick for a potential #1 WR. As if we are going to miss out on an all pro player with that pick!! I don't get why everybody is defending oz and his lack of creativity to maneuver into a top 15 pick and get the ravens some game changers. The team is losing game changers to age, money or whatever. And is not adding any game changers. Oz is not even playing the drafts strengths. 2014 was his best shot to change is reputation on his complete incompetence drafting WRs and he ignores the position!! Everybody knew Torry was not a #1WR yet was going to look to get paid. Suggs and Dumervil are aging yet their replacement is not currently on the foster to learn from them. This draft oz had 2 options at WR. Trade up and secure a more dynamic commodity like White or Cooper. Or sit at 26 and reach for whatever WR name is left in the hat. By not trading up for Hopkins in 2013 or playing the 2014 drafts strengths and drafting Robinson or Matthews the ravens were locked into drafting a WR this draft. Problem is, most rookie WRs are not ready to make an impact. Especially a raw project like Perriman. Which means oz should have known he was entering the season with Smith a year older, fragile Campanaro and 2 way overhyped undrafted WRs. I tried to cool down everybody's enthusiasm and tell everybody oz should have signed a WR or traded for one before the season. At least another legit #2 caliber WR. Everybody including my best friends became upset at me for saying that!! I would have traded our Roud1 pick last year for Allen Robinson in .04 seconds over drafting perriman!! He is a better prospect coming out, plays faster than Perriman and showed impact promise as a rookie. The defense is not going to be good this year unless they acquire an impact edge rusher. The ravens route to a winning season rests on Joe cool. They need to trade for a legit WR. At least a legit #2 caliber with speed and pair him with Steve Smith when he returns. Then hope the online gets healthy and dominates like it is capable of. And maybe the ravens go on a winning streak and get into the playoffs playing their best football offensively!! And they could potentially win a shootout with anybody. BUT oz and his followers would likely frown at the idea of trading a draft pick or couple draft picks. As if they have yielded anything that significant. Even for an impact WR. I suppose everybody thinks we need some more mediocre TEs. But when the oline is back intact and dominates like they should. And if they would only acquire a legit WR to pair with Steve Smith when he returns Joe Cool already proven he can hang 30-40 every game and control the ball. And by playoff time guys on defense like jernigan Mosley Dumervil Hill Davis could be up to speed enough to provide a little defense. But they got to acquire a legit WR and allow Joe cool a shot to carry the team to the postseason. Joe cool has done a lot with these scrubs. He deserves a legit WR to show he can win any shootout and get the team on a run. No QB could do it with the current weapons!! Not Brady or Rodgers. Joe deserves a WR and coaching and management to hand him the keys and show him some trust and say screw the defense go win some games for us Joe. This would be a great test for Joe Cool. To prove he is an elite franchise QB that can carry the team to an 8-3 record or better the rest of the way. If it takes a round2 and a round3or4 pick to bring in the WR then so be it. Give Joe cool a shot to get the team on a run.

We haven't had a losing season in 7 years. We have not been high enough in the draft to get impact players and the thing is it doesn't just affect the first round. A low pick in the first means a low pick in the second and so on. An early second to go with an early first would be huge as we would essentially come away with 2 players we had first round grades on from our board as opposed to waiting until the end of the second to get someone. We haven't been the best with our first round picks either of course but give us a high pick for once and I think it can help a lot. We just can't afford to miss on these first 2 picks next year.

Why not trade up several slots in round one for a change?? Since most mid rounders are busts and role players anyways!! Hmmm 2-3 busts and mediocre role players or one impact player?? Biscotti had to make him trade up for Flacco!! Same thing every draft oz sits on his thumbs and nievely thinks the players the scouts are high on will be there. Then he reaches for a bust or role player or trades back and drafts some more busts. Upshaw,Elam,Kindle,Cody,Dickson,Perriman. Is anybody aware the ravens wanted Bryant and Gronk in 2010?? Oz incompetently sat there while more competent more assertive GMs traded in front of him. Same thing in 2012,2013 and 2015. Let's not get started on the contracts oz handed out to injured,erratic or declining players. On yes Ray Rice was in Decline. Watch him run the ball in 2009 then 2012!! Ray Rice would be 30-31 RB right now and still holds salary cap implications!! It was a bad signing idea go an aging RB with lots of miles on his tires since college!! It was a Bad signing idea even without the popular Halloween costume idea he treated everybody to. Every gm deserves the benefit of bad luck for one signing. But they are pretty much all bad!! How many get out of jail free cards is he going to get??

Why does Ozzie the idiot continue to get a free pass but fire Dean pees?? Grim mentioned drafting is hindsight. THAT IS HIS JOB!! He just sits at his pick and picks whomever is left over like pick a name out of the hat. Then everybody is surprised most of his early round picks are busts!! Then he actually trades up for a couple players in round 2 after not making an initial move to get players his scouts loved in round1. And both of those round2 picks are busts so far. Yes I am going out on a limb and calling Williams a bust. Unless he puts some serious work in getting in shape and route running.