Winchester

Euguene Monroe is a bum

ANOTHER Brilliant signing by Ozzie.

No, we took him knowing he didn't have all the tools to be an All-Pro OLB. We took him thinking he had the tools to be a quality edge setting linebacker, which is largely what he's done.

 

And generally speaking, I'd agree, we don't typically always take second round players and think they are going to be dominant forces in the league. In many cases, they become quality players who fill a quality role for us.

So the ravens #1 pick was expected to be a role player?? No surprise they are 1-6 with that thinking

I'm really wondering what Steve Bisciotti really thinks of this 1-6 start and team as a whole?

He is not happy. He would like to turn this around but the team is strapped against the cap because of bad contract structure and overall bad signings and the team is on the hook for eratic and declining players. Suggs and Dumervil are not going to be that dominant tandem next year at going on 34 and 35 yrs old. Jimmy is eratic and should not of been handed a contract so soon. Daryl Smith is going on 34 and a liability in some respects. Webb is now 30 with extensive injury history. Canty should not of been brought back. Pitta should never of been signed while on it. Considering Biscottis comments, i would say Biscotti does not like being this bad yet strapped down and can not do much to better the team.

Once Perriman returns and Brown returns to top form the ravens WRs will be quite formidable!! and light up the scoreboard. That will give the ravens 3 pro bowl caliber WRs and...... lolllllll I can not finish this with a straight face.

Umm, no, completely wrong.

 

He was a 2nd round pick. There aren't a ton of high-end edge rushers coming out of the second round in drafts. He was drafted to be the replacement for JJ, who also wasn't overly good at getting to the QB. He was drafted to stop the run.

 

Harbs said he would like to see him get to the QB more because 1. we just lost Pernell McPhee to FA and 2. we lost Suggs to injury. 

 

Failing to meet expectations is subjective, because it depends on what the expectations were to begin with. Obviously, neither you nor I are capable of speaking for the franchise's expectations, because neither of us know specifically what they were. If he gets resigned in Baltimore, which I think he does, we will have a clue.

 

Whether he meets YOUR expectations or not is irrelevant. There was nothing on film from him in Alabama to indicate this guy was going to be a quality edge rusher, so if you developed those expectations on your own, then the failed expectations is a YOU problem, not an Upshaw or Ravens problem.

 

Standard response from fans on these boards lately. Setting

unreasonable, baseless expectations, and then complaining when players don't meet them. 

 

He's been a key player for us in the past, and we certainly were contenders then. So saying "they're not a contender because he's a key player" has already been proven false.

Umm, no, completely wrong.

 

He was a 2nd round pick. There aren't a ton of high-end edge rushers coming out of the second round in drafts. He was drafted to be the replacement for JJ, who also wasn't overly good at getting to the QB. He was drafted to stop the run.

 

Harbs said he would like to see him get to the QB more because 1. we just lost Pernell McPhee to FA and 2. we lost Suggs to injury. 

 

Failing to meet expectations is subjective, because it depends on what the expectations were to begin with. Obviously, neither you nor I are capable of speaking for the franchise's expectations, because neither of us know specifically what they were. If he gets resigned in Baltimore, which I think he does, we will have a clue.

 

Whether he meets YOUR expectations or not is irrelevant. There was nothing on film from him in Alabama to indicate this guy was going to be a quality edge rusher, so if you developed those expectations on your own, then the failed expectations is a YOU problem, not an Upshaw or Ravens problem.

 

Standard response from fans on these boards lately. Setting unreasonable, baseless expectations, and then complaining when players don't meet them. 

 

He's been a key player for us in the past, and we certainly were contenders then. So saying "they're not a contender because he's a key player" has already been proven false.

Amazing post and response!! lol, finding a player at the top of round 2 that is an impact player that can rush the qb is unreasonable?? So this is the modern idea of a ravens success story!! I'm not surprised they are 1-5. If calling him a disappointment over bust makes you feel better........ The defense is terrible and he is a huge reason. The defense returning to formidable status begins with replacing some players. Scrubshaw is one of those players.

Why is Upshaw a bust?  Because he doesn't get sacks?

Yep

Dependent on a lot of factors. Technically, they aren't a ton different in most areas than they were last season, when they win double digit games, won a playoff game, and came as close to beating the Patriots as anybody.

I think the Ravens will want Upshaw back, because I think he's done mostly what they've wanted him to be all along. He looks worse this year because he's been forced into a role that he's not good at (everydown OLB rushing the passer as well as stopping the run).

He won't be high priced, and letting him go just means you have to address the position elsewhere, and there's only so many draft picks and so much money to spend.

The term "bust" is widely overused by fans who really don't understand the concept to begin with. They think a second round pick who largely does what he was drafted to do that doesn't turn into JJ Watt is a bust.

Its why fans aren't asked their opinions on personnel decisions...

He was practically a #1 pick. Getting after the qb is key. Edge setting is just minor details in the modern nfl. While Brady or Rogers is throwing for 400 yards and 5 tds who is really that worried about some obscure RB running for 80 yards. He was not brought in to be a role player. Ozzie even said we feel like we got the best edge rusher in the draft. So that is bull that he is not expected to rush the qb. Did Didnt Harbs say he would like to see more pressure on the QB from Upshaw. Saying he needs to be jj watt is an attempt to overblow the expectations he failed miserably to meet. Any team that this guy has any value to at a key position is not a contender. If this scrub is appreciated at all it means the team is that terrible the standards have been lowered. I never liked Upshaw from the day he was drafted.

Well, the former is definitely true.

Wouldn't say they can't sign anyone, but if anybody thinks we are going to be dropping $8-10M a year on a Corner, Safety, WR, etc. in FA this coming offseason, I'd start preparing for disappointment now.

Ravens could be looking at reload next year or 2. If they don't sign somebody they will not be much better next year. Unless they find a legit WR and SS returns and offense can carry defense. Who would want upshaw back?? He is a bust!!

1. Maxx carries quite a bit of baby fat that I will say. I have read your previous posts and while I agree he needs to lose fat and gain muscle I think that is something that will come with him growing up. He's 21 years old and not everyone has started to peak physically at that age. Everyone is different. Jeremy Shockey in his younger years was a bit soft like Maxx, but as he matured he became I ripped monster. Maxx has a baby face, he clearly hasn't began peaking physically yet and I think you fail to realize this. Everybody's bodies are different. To compare him to a freak like Gronk is just unrealistic.

2. If you are underwhelmed with Maxx's "mediocre" numbers here are some other tight ends with mediocre numbers when they were rookies...

Jason Witten(21) 35 rec 347 yards

Todd Heap(21) 16 rec 206 yards

Greg Olsen(22) 29 rec 391 yards

Shannon Sharpe(22) 7 rec 99 yards

Jackie Smith(23) 28 rec 445 yards

Kellen Winslow(22) 25 rec 255 yards

Dave Casper(23) 4 rec 26 yards

Maxx is on pace for 36 rec and over 300 yards...But I guess these guys I listed above are just mediocre. None of them are hall of famers or anything.

I agree Gronk is a little unfair of a comparison. However my opinion, Maxx does not have the speed or suddenness of any of the modern players on that list. Nor any other modern impact TEs like Olsen,Thomas,kelce,Cameron,Reed,Clay or even Pitta before his injuries to name a couple. My point is this. He is not really an upgrade over Gilmore as a receiving threat. So what is the point in trading up for him?? And oz missed a lot of impact talent by picking Maxx. He will bulk up and add some muscle probably. But that is not babyfat!! At 21 a male is leaner than he will ever be naturally without nutrition and training programs. I talk about his flabby bod because he is no better or more explosive than Gilmore. And if he is going to be the receiving threat he was drafted to be then he needs to somehow find an extra gear. This draft is not the one to be picking a TE based on need.

Yes, except you can take a shot at a championship WITHOUT bringing in these players.

 

Its ironic that the guys you are listed don't have championships, and this franchise has one recently.

 

Believe it or not, there are difference makers in this league who don't get caught doing weed during the combined process (about as poor an intellectual decision you can make) or beating your girlfriend/wife, which he did do, regardless of whether she's a gold digger or not.

lol exactly dude. But clean players with pro bowl talent are expensive and top draft picks. The ravens won with clean players. But in today's NFL Ray Lewis may have been cut.yikes!! Just because somebody does not have a ring does not mean they are not difference makers or game changers. The ravens have no impact players right now outside Yanda and Mosley if he is on. Dumervil is 32-33 and does not look to have the same burst he once did. Hardy does look like a psychopath but I heard he did not do everything the girl claimed. She did not even have marks for proof.

Hardy's was actually overblown. It was a good digging woman. Randy Gregory was a projected top5 talent. They found trace amounts of marijuana. I think he was worth a shot. He is leaps and bounds a better prospect than max Williams. I will say this. You bring in a game changer type player with some drama. If you trust your coaching,leadership motivation and atmosphere to keep him in line then you have a pro bowl player and a better shot at a championship. The drama major actually has a shot at being great if he walks the line. The talent deficient player you know is not going to be a difference maker. Wouldn't you prefer to take a shot at a championship?

Randy gregory has no stats avaliable on ESPN. I doubt Blackmon will ever play again. Greg Hardy would be a PR nightmare for us. Washington? Trouble maker. I don't know if he can stay on the field consistently. Aldon Smith has not done much this year...

So only option is Hardy, and we were not going to sign him PR nightmare.

Dude you talk like the ravens are the most talented team in the NFL and don't need anybody. The Baltimore pro bowlers are so talented they do not need to give drama players a shot to excel and stay straight. The ravens have a disciplined structure with leadership and motivation to keep players straight. Look at Will Hill. Talent wins games not choir boys. Biscotti is not signing these guys to a $100mil contract!! So they are not losing anything if these guys get into any more drama. Handcuffing the team because of Ray Rice is nuts and watering down the talent pool. Guys do dramatic things when they are young. But they mature and realize the $$ they could make or lose by staying out of trouble.

i dont see him as a generational talent either, i did at one point, but he lacks the real athleticism at this point to crown him the next jj watt, but he isnt exactly overrated, because the guy is the real deal, hes gonna be a top 3 OLB/DE in the league probably from the day he steps into the league, and he pretty much gives us what we need to move on from sizzle when he retires. 

 

with bosa and davis on the left, they will be the most dominant line crashers in the league, and with jernigan and doom on the right, they wil make for the most dominant lineup of edge defenders in the game, dont even bother trying to run the ball, and if youre passing you better hope our db's blow every assignment, otherwise youll never escape the pressure that front would bring.

?

I love the idea!! But how old will Dumervil be next year?? Going on 34?? Ravens need to find a replacement for Dumervil as well. They could sign Aldon Smith maybe?? A harbaugh had him the playing as one of the best edge rushers in the NFL. Bosa and Smith could make the ravens dominant again.

We would have to win out at home in order to have a realistic shot. I think the offense can do its job, but this defense is just dreadful.

Just stop guys!! lol, Actually If they traded for a legit #1 WR(not saying it needs to be a julio jones)or very high end ascending #2 the offense could carry the defense and actually allow the defense to be aggressive and take chances.

The oline plays intact and Monroe and Wagner returns to top form. They trade for a legit #2 WR who is ascending. Not somebody's #3 that benefits from playing next to an elite WR like Marvin Jones. Although I like Jones he is unproven when asked to be a good to guy that defenses focus on. And he would be just another game at WR position. They need to fix this WR thing right. No #3 WRs like Jones or old guys like Vincent Jackson. A legit ascending WR with good speed to partner with SS the TE's, the oline, and running game to really begin scoring points and carry the defense. If they did that I could realistically see 9-7.

I have heard some pretty crazy claims from people saying they have inside info. I heard one person say that their "sources" had us trading for Calvin Johnson last year.

I do not believe everything I hear. It has to come from tbe bull or from the bulls circle. I think a sf 49er scout among a couple others qualifies.

Gotta say I'm thinking the same at this point. Really sad to see it, because I liked him a lot, but he hasn't ever become what I thought he could be. I got that one wrong and I'll sadly own up to it. I say sadly because I'd rather be wrong about a guy who never came to the team.

He probably is. So why wasn't he cut?? Is Ozzie worried about his rep dumping a round2 pick this early??

Mediocre based on what exactly, raw statistical production? Lee finishes 15th among rookie WRs with 422 yards and he's proclaimed to be a destined No.1 in spite of the stats due to the tape. Yet that same aspect is disregarded entirely with regards to Williams. There's a mind-blowing absence of consistency in these evaluations. Yes, a tight end who catches balls, finds separation, and makes successful blocks is likely to be above average. As humorous as this back and forth has been thus far, it's dumbfounding that this notion could escape anyone with even an underdeveloped understanding of the game. A player's playing shape is relevant, no doubt. That being said, it isn't more relevant than his actual performance and your comments towards Williams have disregarded the latter entirely.

 

Yes, and yes. What knowledge have you displayed to have mastered that others have yet to comprehend? The fact that lower body fat percentage improves athleticism? Be serious. From what I've read, there was a certain reputation that followed the previous user name, and it certainly wasn't being a supreme justice of rational thoughts.

The only thing so called irrational ideas I made was giving elite talent with some off field drama a shot in Baltimore. Players like Aldon Smith, Blackmon and Gordon once reinstated and Randy Gregory, Greg Hardy and the undrafted rookie guard for the cowboys, Hardy and Washington from Arizona. That was such outlandish ideas huh?? As it was when I said the defense could begin to struggle given the age of Suggs,Dumervil, and Smith and Webb. You would never mistake me for a big fan of Torrey Smith but at least his deep speed stretched and stressed defenses. Why is it a surprise that Aiken and Brown suck and the offense is without consistency. My opinion is elite talent wins championships. And the offense was going to struggle with 36 yr old SS as the only proven weapon. And my opinion is the ravens should of considered trusting the organization's structure and give a couple players with off field drama a shot with the ravens. It does not look like such a bad idea now. Does it?? The ravens need cornerstone players or some pro bowl talent. The 1-5 record is no coincidence. Outside of Yanda maybe whom is having a down year himself, the ravens will not have single Pro bowler or player in the top 100. The ravens need an influx of impact talent!! However management can find it. Because it is not coming from the draft class. And with the salary cap situation it is not coming from free agency.

Well, there's no way they'll get worse so I do anticipate they'll get better. This defense is bad and we shouldn't be playing this poorly, I'll admit it, but I don't feel its talent that's holding these players back, I feel that they just don't have that energy and lack toughness, I think that went out the window with Suggs injury. I see no reason to fire Oz, I think when you look at it we usually bounce back when we put up a bad season. I think he deserves some blame for what has happened, but at the same time I'll wait before I actually call for his job.

Very fair assessment of Ozzie. I will say this I think Ozzie was very lucky at times. I received some inside the organization scoops on bad decisions made by oz that I did not know about. And I do not have a good opinion of OZ. However as lucky as he is, he made nice picks and decisions that resulted in Superbowls. And he deserves a shot to reboot the defense and team. However if none of this drafts picks show up as impact players by next year and if he gets no immediate production on next rookie class, he then should be on the hot seat.

Actually I change my opinion on Irvin. I got some info on what was the cause of his inconsistencies. I can not post in open about his inconsistencies but you can message me. Marqise Lee I maintain however will be a pro bowl or near pro bowl caliber receiver if he could get on the field and get on page with his QB. Hurns I wanted the ravens to draft all along. I said long ago there is no way in he** he should have went undrafted. I will say he is the more polished WR as of now but Marqise has a higher ceiling. Marqise coasted on raw skill and is just now learning details.

You know I am just being funny now right?? I am not arrogant or egotistical like that.

Jason Witten has had nothing more than functional athleticism without a second gear and he was considered as a top tier TE for a lengthy stretch of seasons. Perhaps you don't understand the concept of mediocrity or are mistakenly using it as a synonym for another adjective, so I'll walk you through the process. A player who blocks and separates at an above-average level is as the adjective describes. It's a difficult concept to comprehend, so we'll most certainly approach the matter with patience, but we're too long removed from Talledega Nights to be basing our core principles on the notion that there's no middle ground between the absolute best and everything that follows.

Qualified. Where do I begin? You're posting on a forum among fans of a contact sport in its highest level with top tier athletes, and you've genuinely assumed that nobody else aboard has taken care of their body and/or participated in competitive sports enough to offer a papable opinion. I offer my profound apologies on the bubble bursting, but at least you're among the first on this forum in believing that an avatar of a shirtless picture in jeans weather while being in moderately solid shape for a non-professional athlete would grant one supreme justice over assessing others' level of athleticism. Feel free to dust off the first place trophy in that regard. I've agreed on the notion that Williams could be leaner, and an offseason with a strict conditioning program would do him justice. That being said, losing roughly 8% of body fat in the middle of the season borders on the impossible, so hammering his composition in every post concerning Williams is rather redundant, especially when it consciously ignores his actual performance to date, or the more relevant aspect of the two.

You're correct about Johnson, but I would be surprised if his lean mass isn't higher than numerous current TEs. The point also glosses over the fact that the TE position has a significantly higher average gross weight, meaning that a higher body fat percentage is more probable. Williams is currently listed at 254 lbs. You do realize that dropping to 235 lbs via the conversation would be a 15-20 lbs overall loss, right? Since we're so keen on being correct on quotes, . Marqise Lee struggles in his rookie season, we blame the QB play, forgive being passed by a UDFA WR, project him to be a guaranteed No.1 WR with immense upside. Bruce Irvin fails to provide consistent pressure for one and a half seasons, we blame the scheme, blame the role, project him to be an elite pass rusher in the future who will compete for the league lead in sacks. Maxx Williams plays well in a number of weeks, and we ask the fans to give no excuses for his supposed shortcomings. No bias or inconsistency there whatsoever.

Once again, mediocre among starters!! Do not forget that the other TEs are being paid to. Why is it a player produces anything and home town fans label him better than average. You do realize there are many TEs around the NFL producing?? A guy catches a throw and makes a block and it is characterized as above average?? lol A players playing shape is very relevant and influences his level of play and potential ceiling.

Moderately solid shape?? puuullleeeezzzeee!! lol I am in moderately solid shape for a non athlete but you call Maxx in moderately solid shape for an NFL TE. Seriously dude?? Almost everybody I know would disagree with you. And until other members show they know something about athletic performance and benefits of better muscle to fat % then you are going to need to accept and get used to my opinions being the supreme justice around here. Can your ego handle that?

I chuckle at these notions that Oz will be gone. By the sounds of it you'd think we would have lost all five of our games by 30. We could very EASILY be 5-1 if it weren't for this piss poor defense.

Is the piss poor defense going to get better next year?? Suggs Dumervil, Webb, and Daryl Smith finding a fountain of youth?? Lewis, Upshaw going to find talent?? Jimmy going to find consistency?? Mosley going to learn how to cover?? Oh and BTW all these players except the free agents are on the books for significant cap hits. However I do expect Mosley to rebound.

A full on revamp of Ozzie and co. Sorry. I doubt it. ZDS is fine btw. May not be an impact player but has turned into a good pass rusher... Something that is very valuable.

I never said Ozzie is getting booted. I said the team needs to reboot. He is not a "good" edge rushers yet. Elite is Justin Houston. Good is a player that is consistently around 10 sacks like Chris Long. A good edge rushers is an impact player.

Speaking of WRs stepping up, another big day for Steffon Diggs!! To all the peeps that got angry and rude when I said Diggs and Lockett would be better than Perriman....

Not gonna happen.

Man I'm glad the fans do not run this team.

What is not going to happen??