Winchester

These threads are getting ridiculous.  What season ending IR players spend the whole season on the sidelines?  Or even spend time on them weeks after the fact?  Brady tore his ACL in 08 and wasn't on the Pats sidelines.  Peyton wasn't anywhere to be found for the Colts in 2011.  Players that will come back to the team might hang around.  Players actually injured and done for the season rarely do

I believe Vince wilfork did?? Does anybody realize if the ravens did not trade up for Kyle Boller the ravens very well could have drafted Vince?? And if not for drafting Kyle Boller the ravens could very well of drafted Aaron Rodgers. And there were decision makers that wanted quite vigorously to pursue Drew Bree's over McNair. WOW, look what I am talking about!! the ravens do need some wins or fireworks. Come on ravens trade for a #1 WR and at least lose scoring points in exciting games.

Preston has always hated Suggs. This is just typical Preston crap.

Interesting, y does he hate the sizz??

No, it really doesn't. 

 

Notice that I listed about four things that have to go your way in order to hold the Patriots to the mid-20s on the scoreboard.

 

Can't think of any teams at the moment, with the possible exception of the Broncos, that have the corners with the skill, speed and technique to jam their receivers and not get burned all day on crossing and option routes. 

 

And even then, you still have to go out and put up nearly 30 points, which is why the Broncos wouldn't beat them on a neutral field or in Foxboro.

 

For most teams, jamming them doesn't work, because there's a deficiency in tackling, coverage, or scoring points. Again, hence why they win double digit games every year and in my opinion can mostly sleepwalk through the AFC if they get homefield advantage, which they probably will.

Actually what slows them down as well is 3 down physical LBs that can cover like safety's becsuse they thrive over the middle. That is why the ravens shut them out in the second half. Ellerbe was patrolling throws 15-20 yards and Ray handled shallow throws the throws to help the hard hitting safety's. That is why I say a fast physical 3 down LB to partner with Mosley should be as much a priority as any position. Having a tandem of physical 3 down LBs really seriously throws rythym offenses off balance and timing when there are defenders the offense usually does not need to account for.

I'm not certain that I could disagree more with this assessment of I wanted to. In the times he's closed on the QB, he has repeatedly beaten tackles on the outside. I'll preface this in stating that the following disruptions are from arguably his best games in that facet, but they back the point nevertheless (Link1, Link2, Link3, Link4, Link5, Link6, Link7, Link8, Link9, Link10, Link11). He hasn't been a hustle-rusher by any stretch of the imagination. Most of those and the majority of the pressures I've seen from Dumervil this season have come by way of going around the edge. He's not Von Miller when it comes to pure quickness, but he dusted linemen on a number of those plays. You could argue that he may wear down the stretch and it would be a valid concern. That being said, he's had a very good season thus far from what I've seen, much better than I expected after Terrell Suggs went down.

Those links say what I was suggesting. He pretty much gained position off the snap against linemen void of recovery speed and bad technique. But he seems to struggle often against more technically sound taller offensive tackles. He was a non factor in the playoff game. And Veldheer pretty much shut him out. Dumervil is still effective at times. But next year he is a year older. And come to think of it, I was watching him and Veldheer in quarter4. And it just seems like when the ravens needed pressure most, Dumervil is a non factor and I saw him struggle. He may have a 10 sack year next year or he could lose another step. It may be a good idea to see what a contending team that needs edge rush help will offer for him. Next year is his eleventh season.

LOL, how many teams you think tough him once every 5 dropbacks? He's dropping back 45-50 times a game frequently. You think there's a team in the league that's hitting him 10 times a game? No QB is the same when he gets hit... there isn't one ever that liked it.

 

How do you beat the Patriots? Generally, you jam their receivers at the line so they don't get a free release, you disguise your coverages, and you tackle extremely well. And that's just on defense, because that's probably only going to keep them in the 20-25 point range on the scoreboard.

 

Then, you've got to go score TDs frequently. Why do you think they win double digit games every year?

That easy huh?? Don't need fast pressure?? Why don't teams just jam their WRs?? Even if you jam a WR the rush needs to get there much faster than Dumervil of recent.

Only have to touch him once every 5 drop backs. His rating was zero in quarter 3 of the Superbowl. Then like 109 after Avril got hurt. So it is how you beat the patsies. Brady is not the same when he gets hit.

LOL, there's no hard and fast age for anything in life. RBs lose this half the time by the time they are 28.

 

I think he's still better than average now, because I don't think you know what an average pass rusher in this league looks like. So I'm not just going to ASSUME he's going to drop off a cliff because he hits an age that YOU (and only you) think is the cutoff point between good and terrible.

 

For the record... speed has never really been Dumervil's biggest attribute.

He had great burst. I actually thought he started losing it in the playoff game last year and b4 that. He seemed to need more technique and time and needed to use a different arsenal of moves that does not require elite burst. I watched him back in 08 09 maybe and his burst and jump impressed me. Not so much last year. To beat Brady Rogers a healthy Luck the rush needs to get there in under 4 seconds. The ravens need that rusher that crosses the tackle in a blink. For all the blame on the cornerbacks for that playoff loss. Dumervil and Suggs were of no help. Watch Quarter 3 of the Superbowl then after Avril got hurt. DIFFERENT GAME!!

Didnt you just say hes going on 35...ball-parking an age isnt a good way to make an argument when you keep making it go the way that suites your argument.  You could also say he could be in better shape next year, he wont be getting beatup through a 16 game season now.  lots of points that can go either way, yes as he gets older he will lose his effectiveness, but to say Suggs is no longer a difference maker is just plain stupid, last year him and doom im pretty sure they were the top duo or one of.

 

I just cant even....

34 35 whatever dude. To ASSUME he is still even better than average is stupid. Look what assuming did for the WRs. Have you ever played anything to realize the difference in athleticism and speed when you hit 35?????

On the subject of Dumervil, he hasn't consistently struggled in one on ones in any regard. It's a strange argument to make considering that he was constantly in the backfield the last time we played and that roughly half of his pressures came at ROLB. He's been surprisingly productive considering the absence of pressure opposite of him, and he's been statistically successful on both sides thus far. On the subject on Webb, it's pure hindsight to state that we could've waited to extend him. We've seen teams get burned in choosing to hold off often enough to know that it's risk either way.

Dumervil struggled when I watched him this year. He does not look particularly explosive or sudden. He is an eventual get to the qb rush olb. The ravens need that dude who is in the backfield in a blink.

No, I said very specifically that he doesn't need to be a difference maker as a PASS RUSHER, because he doesn't. You add a pass rusher in the draft/FA, and he's the third pass rusher on the team that still probably gets you 4-5 sacks a year.

 

He still sets the edge and defends the run incredibly well, and I don't expect that to decline. Given that we may be losing Upshaw as a FA, we can definitely use an OLB who can defend the run. He can also be a difference maker as a leader, which I believe fans have told me we need more than anything.

 

He won't be the Ravens best edge rusher, because Dumervil and/or a draft pick/FA signing will be. I'm certainly not ready to throw on the towel on Doom as a quality rusher because we have no idea what he would have done this year if he even had one edge rusher lined up on the other side. Pass rushers typically don't decline from 17 sacks to like 5 sacks all on their own.

 

Plus, he's making $4.5M next year. That's not elite edge rusher kind of money.

Dumervil is not being effected by the other olb. He is getting blocked by a single blocker. He really struggled against veldheer as he has against many other single blockers. You really think he will be a better player next year at going on 34 years old??

Suggs will be 34,he didn't hurt his knee,he tore his achilles and I didn't say he would light anything up.I think Suggs will still have enough in the tank to add something to our pass rush.He showed no signs of slowing down before his injury.And I agree with you on the Webb signing.I was excited when we signed him but gasped when I saw the numbers.I think he was paid so much because he didn't just have a good year as a CB in 2011 but was also a pretty good return man.

Suggs doesn't need to be a difference maker as a pass rusher in order for this team to be successful.

Yes he does need to be a difference maker. Especially when he is on the books as a difference maker. I am not trying to be arrogant or flame. But to win a championship you need to be better than EVERYBODY!! The other teams players are being payed as well. There is to much contentment for mediocre players. I understand fans like to applaud every good play by the home team player. And you can win a championship with some mediocre players as long as they are surrounded by difference makers. And there is no difference making edge rusher on the team. To think Suggs is going to be enough at 35 years old is nieve. If he is marginally effective it is nothing to get up in arms about!! There is to much excitement of mediocrity on the team. Just like there was with Brown and Aiken. The ravens are tied for the worst record in the NFL. Yet if you go by the excitement of conversations of all the players, one would think the ravens are championship bound. If Suggs is the ravens best edge rusher the ravens Defense will be terrible.

Suggs is slowing down. If he gets pressure on Brady in the playoffs the ravens win that game. Could the ravens really enter next year with the idea Suggs is the best Edge rusher?? BTW he is on the books for a good amount of $$.

Im a huge fan of Webb's, always have liked him and its a shame we never got to see the potential, he was heading towards being a shut down corner. Didnt see this mentioned, but his return skills were awesome. I believe he almost won us a playoff game against the steelers with a punt return that got called back. I loved the signing at the time and i still like webb, hes playing consistent. Is there any benefits or possibility that Webb can take a pay cut?

I thought it was his knee and Achilles his first injury?? Anyways, in any sense of the word he will be going on 36 yrs old returning from injury?? Season ending injury. Do you ever run or play Anything?? Were you anywhere near as fast and flexible at 36?? Suggs is no longer a difference maker. Ravens need to find the next great edge rushers. Look at Dumervil this year!! He is 32-33 and no longer retains that burst that made him a formidable edge rusher.

I personally don't think fat maxx is much more of a seam threat than Gilmore or Boyle. Which is disappointing considering he was drafted to be a faster receiving threat of a TE similar to a Travis Kelce. The fact that you can even speak of a blocking TE outplaying him says something about his speed, athleticism and overall receiving skills.

I say we cut him and Lewis for the $4.4 million in cap space and put those savings toward signing Sean Smith and Eric Weddle.I think a secondary with those two,Jimmy,Hill and Arrington should get us back to atleast being in the teens in pass defense.Especially once Suggs comes back and improves our pass rush.

Suggs is going to light up QBs?? He will be 35 yrs old. And Coming off a knee injury. As for Webb it is a shame he got injured. However he was signed hastily after one great year. They could have waited to sign him

Our hindsight is the organizations whiff, lol

Ozzie should be ashamed of the roster he's put together. Biscoitti should be p/o'ed about the moves his general manager has elected to make. I keep saying that his old school way of doing business is not in keeping with today's NFL. Sad.

Just cuz Freeney humiliated Monroe does not make him a difference maker at his age. However I do agree Ozzie's old school tactics and off the wall picks are outdated. For one he needs to be more aggressive drafting the players his scouts love. He needs to target specific players and move around the board like jimmy Johnson did. Furthermore signing your own talent is not always the best move. Often the best players are not already on the roster. To not consider letting a player walk for a player that is better and will actually play his best football ever with the ravens is Ozzie not taking advantage of the ocean of talent available to the organization. It is significantly watering down the talent!! Especially ignoring talent and being tunnel visioned for your own players.

dez bryant is back training...

 

Perriman is soft..

 

either that or he has a degenerative issue..what a pathetic pick.

Unless he is that terrible of a route runner, coaching does not want him on the field yet.

Scratch that idea, the pack called him up from the practice squad. A couple free agents I would like to see the ravens grab and would be better in our system and supporting cast is Zach Brown and Nick Perry. As for Brown I wanted the ravens to sign his teammate Derrick Morgan last offseason. Even if it meant trading Dumervil. I know I already heard that is a ridiculous idea from friends and family. But hear me out. Dumervil is getting old. He is a very good edge rusher yes. However my opinion he is not one of those freakishly explosive guys that could lose a step and still be a great rusher like Ware or Peppers. And I feel it is better to trade a player a year before he loses his mojo( and get his salary off the books) than a year after when he is worthless. And I believed Derrick Morgan would play far better as an olb with a stout line in front of him that gives him space to maneuver. Because he is a very polished edge rusher. That is the kinda bargains Ozzie needs to find. Besides Morgan is a hard worker and on field leader the ravens need desperately especially after Suggs aging. He is having a fine year and he would be even better on the ravens playing behind Brandon,Jernigan and Davis. Anyways now his teammate Zach Brown is a fit. He is very explosive and good in coverage. And again he would be far better with the ravens playing behind the ravens line. He was considered soft coming out of college. But he has much raised the intensity on his physicality and covers like a safety. He will not break the bank but could play like somebody who broke the bank. Especially with the ravens. He and Mosley will make a formidable team. If the ravens ever went 4-3 he would be a great Weakside LB. The other is Nick perry. He is an athletic freak and has worked hard on his rush moves and cover skills. Again he would benefit playing behind the ravens line. As Dumervil did. I do not like him as much as Derrick Morgan because of Morgans polish and leadership. And he may cost a little more because of his sheer explosiveness and potential. However if he learned a little more technique from Suggs or Dumervil to go with his motor and Explosion, he could very well outplay his salary because he is more explosive than Derrick and can run the arc and is far stronger than when he entered the league. Let's just hope he does not break out this year and drive his price up. The ravens should trade Dumervil NOW to a contender for a draft pick and bring back Suggs at a restructured salary to play part time and coach up Zadarius and Perry.

That is the point of bargains b4 they break out. Like Brian Quick. Speaking of WRs is Jared Abbrederis healthy?? He has sub 4.5 speed, good routes and intelligence and on the packer practice squad. He roasted some round 1 cornerbacks.

The ravens play hard and disciplined because of harbs no nonsense hard practice style. The scouting needs to find players that are ready to breakout but are being held back by a bad QB or bad coaching,scheme,discipline, and motivation. Find these players in free agency and trade. As Sanders and Lafell were ready to break out.

Brian Quick would be my much sort after receiver in free-agency. But what's missing is the YAC element.

Stats can be misleading sometimes. Watch his elusiveness when he is not all stretched out for an errant wild throw. I like Richardson and Marqise as well. I like Richardson very slightly more. I always liked Diggs slightly more than marqise as well. However marqise is also slightly more obtainable. I would trade perriman and a #3 pick for Diggs right now. Under ravens normal draft slot I would trade perriman and a #2 for Diggs. But being that the fo is looking at a top 5 pick, the picks have far more value. Building a winner with limited cap space means doing things outside the box. However Perriman has zero value right now. You begin to wonder. Is his injury that significant or is he that unimpressive and raw that coaches fear he could look bad on the field because of bad routes and hands. And the fo does not want the negative responses from fans for the teams #1 pick looking bad. The ravens are not even giving straight explanations of his injury. Is anybody to believe the ravens can not explain his injury or a straight answer to how long he will be out?? Every other injury there is a timeframe for return. With Perriman there is no estimates as to when he will play. Seems more like a performance thing as to when he is ready to play.

Agreed there. I'm at least happy that Diggs is reaffirming our belief in him. We both liked him pre-draft.

I got ridiculed for saying Diggs was not far off of Coopers talent. And if he did not get injured and he played with a good qb in a good scheme then he would be the #4 WR drafted.

They have been calls by fans for the jobs of DC, OC, and/or the HC. I want to bring a different perspective to this:

 

Ravens had many changes in coaching in the past few years. When Kubiak left - he took other coaches with them as well as players. When Pagano left - same thing. What we lack is consistency in coaching (outside of John Harbaugh) in a multi-year view. Of course when your team is successful its hard to keep those coaches but I think for now we should do exactly the opposite of what is being asked - keep our coaches. Keep the consistency. Dean Pees has the right packages but the athletes just aren't executing - not hitting the gaps. Trestman is doing the best he can with the limited amount of firepower he's been given. With limited OTAs and brand new athletes being signed of FA - of course it is going to be hard to properly incorporate them into the game.

 

And another point: This will take a minimum of 2 years to fix. We have bright spots in Buck Allen, Crocket Gillmore, Williams. We can build on that. I still think Perriman can be a productive WR. We shouldn't write him off. This injury might actually be a good thing for him - he has the chance to learn from the sidelines.  With our upcoming drafts (if Ozzie does it right) we have a chance to pick more bonafide playmakers. If we can get more playmakers from the draft (and there' no reason to suggest we won't when we've been given a high draft pick) and develop our existing promising young players we will be alright. But - this takes patience and faith in the Ravens system.

The ravens need building blocks on both sides of the ball!! Not Harbs' fault. There is nothing good about Perriman on the sidelines. He is supposed to be learning. Then if he trips next year everybody will say give him a chance this is really his rookie year. The TEs are useful but not building blocks with superstar talent The ravens are a bad team. Everybody wants to blame coaches and coordinators for a team being terrible. Fire Pees Fire Trestman but the guy that put the ravens in their spot seems above reproach?? Seems most fans want to applaud him for drafting mediocre players, hand him a stack of get out of jail free cards for busts and bad signings. Fans make excuses for his busts, Pat him on the back and be content when he finds a mediocre player. Then make excuses for his failure to find much if any pro bowl talent in the last 6 drafts. Not only that but his flock is content with his mediocre players and even sometimes pimp them out as successful drafting. Then call for the firing of every coordinator because the ravens are losing. Yet most fans are content with these mediocre players. Can you blame a driver for not winning a race with a slow car??

ive got to hand it to you.

 

the stuff you say is pure comedy.

 

i actually enjoy reading them 

lol thanx

Basically, yes. That's what happens when you're #1 pick is on day 2.

Take a look around at some of the other day 2 picks lately and you'll see a lot of them being taken by other teams aren't expected or projected to be All-Pro's either.

I'm baffled as to how fans don't understand this concept at this point.

I'm baffled by fans that really believe a team enters the drafts looking for mediocre players. Did not they trade down?? So whose fault is it their first pick was #35?? And do you want a list of impact players drafted after that?? And did not they say " we feel we got the best edge RUSHER in the drsft??1 impact players for 2 mediocre players?? that can be pulled off practice squads. Edge setters can be found in mid rounds. If that is seriously how Ozzie thinks these days.... Hang on for the ride!! Strap in it is gonna get bumpy!!

Ozzie pursues to many players out of their prime. Many of the WRs did nothing. Free agency needs to be approached like the draft. Do not look for the WR that has 12000 yards, find the next WR that is going to catch for 12000 yards. Free agency or even trades should be viewed as coached up draft picks. There are many talented players that need one or more of opportunity, coaching,scheme,motivation,structure,supporting cast to breakout. Emmanuel Sanders and Brandon Lafell are 2 examples. Sanders did not click with Ben and was not comfortable with the scheme or his role. Cam is not a rythym pocket qb that gets the ball out fast and therefore does not allow his WRs to play fast. If Brady did not already have years of chemistry with Gronk and Edelman, Lafell would have had 1300 yards or more and 10 TDs. With limited cash, the ravens need to approach free agency looking for real bargains!! The players ready to breakout. Not so called has beens. Players that need a good QB or disciplined hard working team structure and motivstion and detailed schemes. Lafell raised a mob in Carolina when he said the patsies work harder and are more detail oriented. I like Marqise Lee, Paul Richardson and Brian Quick. I know only the latter is a free agent but the other 2 WR's teams could audition trade offers. Richardson is coming off injury while his team has added other weapons already. Marqise gets minor injuries that prevents him from building any chemistry with his young QB while he is also a young player. Quick is a rare talent whose raw skills are compared to T.O. He hit some breakout games even with a terrible QB before Quick was injured. He is known for a Gronk like work ethic and runs 100 routes a day and practices adjusting to various errant throws. His hard work and rare skills were paying off before his injury. His body control and catch radius is among the best. And he runs very explosive sharp routes for his size and has surprising run after catch moves for his size. With a good QB like Joe he could pick up where he left off and be a Sanders like Bargain.