Winchester

20 minutes ago, Tiznut said:

There is a difference between predicting a losing season and disagreeing on one solitary pick. That said if his opinion or insider knowledge was that valuable please tell me what franchise is paying him for his insight 

Doesn't mean he doesn't know what he is talking about. I mean somebody made Matt Millen a gm. Colts gm signed a 10-11 year vet running back to big money and a clearly slowing down Andre Johnson. If he is right enough I'm sure it will catch a franchise's attention.fans tuned in and lines clogged up with fans wanting to ask him questions. So somebody cares about his opinion. Some of the world's best computer hackers are not employed by anybody yet. The hacker that invented the computer virus was not employed by anybody in computers at the time. America is filled with people that suck at their jobs but knew somebody. I work with some of them.

13 minutes ago, Tank 92 said:

This Wally Williams?   lol

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/baltimore-sports-blog/bal-ex-raven-wally-williams-says-team-should-have-drafted-laremy-tunsil-20160505-story.html

Look around he is not the only one. And although I like Ron Stanley you can not fault anybody for liking the finished product tunsil. Ron Stanley needs more upper body strength  But shoukd be better player once he obtains it. Just some news. Tunsil I hear has arthritis like condition in his ankles.News should go public in near future

Wally Williams is the newest to do so

The point of this thread is where the ravens are now and where the ravens are going to be next couple years. Not the winning seasons with players drafted a decade ago and longer as the cornerstones. Truth is even former ravens players are predicting a losing season again. Which would make 2 consecutive and 3 of 4 seasons since superbowl non winning seasons. Management is trying patchwork to fill various holes through signing older player. In my opinion and I could be wrong, his point is if ravens do not draft better then team could be in for a losing season again. And if the patchwork with the 30+ vets fail then the draft needs to produce some impact players to replace the retired and over their prime impact players like Lewis reed ngata Suggs. Can't replace them guys with mediocre role players and expect to keep competing. However I really like this draft class. T young is more than a slot cornerback. Kufusi has massive potential as an edge rusher. Chris moore is a more complete receiver than given credit. Will Henry has pro bowl potential. Victor Ochi was the best undrafted player.

4 hours ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

So, as I understand it, the FO should be fired for passing on Tunsil and "settling" for Stanley.

Another poster who shared this opinion, you claimed to be the best poster on the boards. Support of both your reasoning was to point to all the "experts" who throughout the draft process pointed to Tunsil being the better prospect, and how could the Ravens take Stanley when all these evaluators clearly said Tunsil was better.

Yet, those same evaluators all agreed that Ramsey was the best corner prospect to come out in a LONG time, and many had him as the #1 guy on their boards... But, according to you now - they must all be idiots bc he's nothing more than a Matt Elam, a failed SS prospect who made find a niche as a journeyman type of pro.

So... in essence their evaluations of Tunsil are gold, and are proof that our FO is a bunch of failures who should be fired.... AND their evaluations Ramsey are absolutely terrible since they see a generational talent and you see a complete bust...

 

Seems to me like you flip flop and only stick to what supports your agenda. See the FO likes Stanley - hes trash... and look the media scouts agree with me! Oh, the FO likes Ramsey, and the media scouts do too? Shhh, don't mention that bc that blows holes in my Stanley argument.

Unless of course you're willing to admit that the only basis you have for thinking the FO's evaluation of prospects is terrible is that your evaluations don't match.... in which case you're arguing that you are a better talent evaluator than guys who are paid millions to do it and are pretty much unanimously touted as among the best. And, if that's the case I have to wonder what you're doing on these boards?

Why hasn't anyone offered to hire you or at the very least offered to pay you to report your opinions?

It's literally no different than a check out clerk at a grocery store saying they can do a better than a surgeon, and their proof being - well because I said so. Or, a guy who played high school baseball, and then went to college and got a business degree (without a scholarship offer to play on the team) saying in their 30's that man, the O's should cut Adam Jones bc I can hit better than him.... "That's not stupid, in high school I hit .400 and he's only hitting .382!"

 

You can dislike a move or disagree with a pick based on your opinion alone - that's perfectly fine. We all do it. But to then elevate to the level of saying our FO should lose their jobs, with the only justification being that you didn't agree with a couple draft picks, while also claiming that anyone who happens to disagree with you and your opinion is an idiot or blind loyalist (I mean how stupid to trust professionals widely considered among the best in the world at what they do, over... well some guy with no qualifications) is where you lose all credibility and become nothing more than a troll.

Saying, man I really disagree with that pick or this decision, but I guess we'll have to see how it pans out. That's totally fine and completely respectable. Saying, I disagree and therefore the pick or decision is definitely wrong, point blank end of story, they need to be fired... is well, stupid. And, pointing out some poor picks in the past and saying, see I told you so, I knew it was wrong back then, with absolutely no evidence that you did in fact know I then... that's easy bc theres no accountability. Plus, its easy to point out some mistakes in hindsight while completely ignoring all the successes, and that even with the mistakes the team has been among the elite of the league for now 2 decades.

We're idiots and loyalists if we accept a 5-11 season while ravaged with injuries.... even though the reality is that every team goes through those, and 90% go through far more of them and good portion deal with that reality every season.

 

If you want to root for a team that reacts aggressively to every poor decision and wont accept a 5-11 season to see if the long term plan works out - then go root for the Browns. They employ the exact type of philosophy you call for. Oh wait, that doesn't work with your fantasy? That's the reality.

Fact, 99% of scouts gms were players,family members of coaches,players,owners gms, plain knew somebody. These guys are merely watching athletes play. It is not precision ligament surgery. Just like many jobs a person more natural can be better than somebody doing it for years. Racing,computers,chess,carpentry,day trading, acting, modeling,music writing,art are a a mere couple categories that all have newcomers that come along and are better than people doing it for years with pay. Nfl has never posted openings people working for the nfl are there by divine right.

2 hours ago, Sami84 said:

winchester, quick question..as you seem to know quite a bit about physical traning etc Do you feel matt judon can improve his lower body agility? IN my eyes, he has everything else to succeed but this is maybe his one flaw. Great closing speed, powerful upperbody ( and lower body, just not agile) 34 inch arms for great leverage...He is immensely powerful in general.He could Bullrush some less powerful tackles with ease, but against the elite he'll need to contort his body more. Like theoretically, if my cone time is 7.5-7.6 is it relatively possible to get it to 7.1 with the right regimen? Or could it be a combination of footwork technique as well as a regimen?

 

thanks!

Good question. But no definitive answer. Not completely anyways.  I personally see the same flaw in him. Anyways of course he can improve his lower body agility and flexibility. But by how much is the big mystery.  He can improve his agility to functional levels.  But he is going to have focus a lot of attention, hard work and detail on his own time. He is going to need multiple trainers and employ techniques outside traditional football drills. Such as  resistance yoga/pilates,martial arts,ballet and gymnastics. And focus on strength and flexibility in his hips,ankles, and core. And especially the smaller muscle groups,ligaments and tendons. And cross it over into football training. He will never be a freakish bender like Von Miller and those guys that can bend,accelerate and even shift gears simultaneously.  But it can be improved. Antonio Brown was already pretty agile/flexible but he improved his agility/flexibility as well as strength and burst through cutting edge techniques. Hard to say how much Judon could improve but he should be able to get to functional levels. But it is going to take a lot of focused training. Ravens trainers are going to have to recommend a couple trainers for him. And He will need the work ethic and acknowledge he needs to be more flexible and agile. He will never have the agility of Miller or maybe even Will Henry(see michigan state) but he could shave his 3cone while getting more flexible and agile. Much like people become more flexible and agile learning martial arts. Kufusi bends pretty well for a big guy. But judon should be able to at least compare to him. But it will be a while of focused specific training. Kufusi has good agility for a big guy and could improve his as well. But his is good enough for now and his biggest improvement will be obtained from cutting 16-20 lbs of excess weight to gain speed for edge rusher position. 34 olb 43 defensive end. While carefully putting on 10-14 lbs of functional muscle. He can add about that much without losing the speed he gains from cutting bad weight. He could then focus on agility,flexibility training. But in my opinion him playing at a leaner and more explosive yet stronger 277-280 lbs is enough for him to be cyclone of an edge rusher even with minor flexibility training for him.His 40 should get to 4.75,vertical 34-35 and broad jump to nearly 10'. Which will transfer to game explosion,speed to power

I know I know, it was a mistake!! Sorry dude. Will Henry I agree has athleticism and speed to play Lb. He is a better athlete than Jarrett Johnson and Mcphee. However he can 2gap better than credited for. While not a full time wrapper he is an interior player that plays witb top shelf bend and leverage. With really good power. And with his unusual  dedication to the weight training and getting stronger he will get better at 2 gapping. His job will be penetrator as a 43 tackle or 34 defensive end but on the occasions he is asked to 2gap he is fine at it. That is what makes him special. He is an athletic penetrator that can 2gap. That and his commitment to getting stronger and more explosive. He should really break out after a year hitting the weights in an nfl program much like Atkins broke out in year2.

I liked Daryl Smith signing in 2013-2014. After that I said ok now we need a young instinctive 3 down Lb. As for weddle. I dunno guys I guess he is an upgrade. BUT would be cool if he were 2 yrs younger. I like young talent. Football is a business and finding young talent is like getting in early on a stock that is about to skyrocket. Once out of their prime you sell.  I want the next players up to make 5 or more all pros. Not interested in the last guy to make 5 all pros. Even if he has one good year left. Unless ravens are a legit contender for a championship. Then an aging vet is a good signing to fill a void. As for Wallace I'm more interested in Chris Moore and Perriman breaking out. while i really like Malcolm Mitchell and Demarcus Robinson, to appreciate how sharp Chris Moores routes are, you have to watch his games and routes where he is not even the primary target.

Great post.Of course nobody ever agrees completely but good honest write up. Ron Stanley however because of his need for upper bod power has a better ceiling than tunsil. Cuz he is doing it while needing more power. Once he has it all pro is the ceiling. Correa I agree he is not an end or rush olb that will consistently best nfl tackles. He has speed and motor to be a really good LB if he can learn to play LB. Correa was a need reach cuz ravens need young edge rushers. There were better nfl ready players available. But ravens wanted an edge rusher in a bad draft for the position. Chris may need more flexibility but runs fast sudden routes. I liked Mitchell and Robinson better and Ozzies scouting WRs makes Matt Millen look like nostradaumus.  But I still like Chris Moore a lot. And if he puts in the work to disguise his routes he could be a legit wr. But Mitchell and Robinson are better players for now.

Henry has great tools work ethic. Once he is coached up and tweaks his body through his hard work he is going to be a steal. Kufusi is not an interior player. And that includes 3-4 defensive end. It is more ideal he drop some bad weight (16-20 lbs) to get faster, explosive and flexible to  play edge rush positions. He could put on 10-14 lbs of muscle without slowing him down any. But I like his potential if he maxes out his power/athleticism.  T. Young in my opinion can be more than a slot guy. Did not like the judon or Lewis pick. Would prefer Mitchell Or Demarcus/Reshard Robinson.

Management could be planning to lean Will Henry out to about 270 to play base end in the 4-3 or rush lb in the 3-4 much like Johnson and mcphee. Henry could do so very well my opinion. Lose about 30-40 lbs of bad weight and continue to pack on about 10-12 lbs of muscle. He could get his 40time down to 4.75ish. But it would be a waste of a really good interior penetrator. He us better off leaning out 12-16 lbs and put on 12-14 lbs of functional muscle to play interior penetrator. His power and leverage is ideal 

On 5/17/2016 at 9:36 AM, usmccharles said:

I agree.  I also think this is one of the main reasons for the outrage from passing on Jack.  It was a hole and when healthy is great.  We need to get someone who can cover, most likely we will sign one being cut. 

3down LBs are not usually cut. lol back in highschool as a freshman I said lbs cover skills are going to be as valued as a safety. My first mid late round prospect i ever  liked to be a steal was Lee Woodall and convert him to LB.

On 5/17/2016 at 8:42 AM, usmccharles said:

I don't know anything about Dent, just know that's a hole.  Lee was put in the list to appease Winchester, he loves that guy for some reason and his boy Brian Quick is also on that list. 

I like marqise and quick. However once I got my cds in the mail and email clips of games I wanted to see, I no longer feel he is as necessary. I would like to have him competing to play for the ravens. But in my opinion this isva very underrated receiver class. Many guys play faster than their 40 in this draft. While there are not many height weight speed specimens this is a very solid WR class!!  Robinson Mitchell and Moore are as underrated as any WR in any class!! Robinson is my favorite. But dude, to appreciate how awesome Chris Moore is you have to watch games and plays where he was not the primary target. He was sent on intermediate routes as a decoy which is bizarre cuz usually a WR runs deep as a decoy. Anyways his routes are crazy sudden and crisp. The draft experts just began taking notice just b4 the draft actually of how fast fluid and crisp his routes really are!! Anytime there is no clear #1 and #2 receiver. Skilled receivers like Lee and quick are welcome to try to be the needed go to guys. However it is not necessary. I have confidence in Perriman Moore and Campanaro all being very good complete receivers. All are fast with ball skills,can make big plays as well as tough catches over the middle. I believe Aiken was playing well but he will eventually get jumped over by faster more skilled receivers. Perriman Campanaro Moore SS Max and Dixon are a very very potent and skilled group of weapons that could eventually rival any group in the league.  Not big names yet but all great players start off as obscure

9 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I think a safety LB hybrid would be just what the doctor ordered. Not all teams have the luxury of having such a dominant run stopping front that they could essentially remove a front seven player from that duty without skipping a beat, which is exactly what the ravens have, on the other hand we need someone to handle TEs

Mosley can get far better in coverage. He was trying to do to much surrounded by a slow defense. He has all the necessary tools to excel at cover responsibilities 

I don't like Kufusi as an interior player. I like him dropping 16-20 lbs of bad weight and put on 10-14 lbs of muscle and play rush olb in the 3-4 and defensive end in the 4-3. He could be a terror at edge rusher at a more explosive  And slightly stronger 270-280 lbs. He could be a freak running a 4.75 at 6'6 280lbs. He could be a stud defensive end and rush olb with that size power athleticism 

Mosley has the speed instincts and athleticism to be very good in coverage. His probs last year was trying to do to much surrounded by a slow defense. witb Correa and Brown or a lb ravens trade for or sign I believe Mosley excels at coverage

On 5/19/2016 at 3:44 PM, allblackraven said:

Very underrated aspect of players' preparation. Just look at what wonders it did for Novak Djokovic.

It is very underrated and neglected!! This is a start. But each player needs his own nutritionist to help him design a program to reach optimal muscle to fat ratio for peak power and speed. But eating healthy is definitely a good start and will make a difference in games. Eliminating junk and taking in protein will help to lose some fat and build some muscle. Every player needs to take it to the extent of Shannon Sharp and Michael McCrary. Those guys took their prepared food on planes and mapped out carb fat protein intake for muscle gain and fat loss then tweaked the programs to maintain their optimal play weight. Ray did the same thing. He packed on 16lbs of muscle witb no loss in speed and became an absolute terror during the 2000 season. It would be totally cool for ravens rookies to be that fanatical. Will Henry, Kufusi would be scary awesome with a little extra muscle and a little leaner body. It is a huge advantage over competition. It would be a bigger advantage than Steelers raiders players juicing in the 70's. But I like what ravens are doing so far

13 hours ago, Jacquouille said:

How do you know about his work ethic?

He works out twice a day and already seeing 2 local well known trainers. The one I know of and talked with before. But I'm not sure how hard he pushes for nutrition. Cuz that is where loads of muscle and strength gains are unlocked. As well as fat loss for gaining steps of speed/explosion. I know he knows a lot about recruiting/ strengthening stabilizer muscles. He has trained a lot of people with good results including wrestlers bidding for olympics. Henry has a freakish desire and work ethic to be great if somebody guides him.I'm sure you will eventually find something about his work ethic and love for weightfacility 

1 minute ago, ALPHA said:

Perriman and Moore look like future studs but Campanaro is an injury bust, Wallace and Weddle are getting up in age but they're still immediate upgrades

It has been 2 seasons. Campanaro is not yet an injury bust. If he misses significant games again I'll call him a bust

In my opinion the Wallace big play threat has sailed. I would prefer for the ravens signed a more complete aging WR to coach up young fast talented perriman Campanaro and Chris moore!! Chris Moore is going to be a better route runner than Wallace ever dreamed!!  You have to watch his games where Chris was not the intended target to see his fast crisp sudden routes. Ravens have a really awesome receivers coach but a vet would go a long way maturing young guys

Forgot about rankins. But it will be tight. Henry like atkins has a freakish desire to be the strongest and fastest at his position

9 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

Yea I know, hence why I stated that in another response to you one page back. 

Weddle- Just a 2 years ago he was ranked as the number one safety and last year he was top 12, falling mainly because of missed time.  Im not saying hes going to come in and be Reed 2.0, but a guy that can stick to assignments, keep the secondary communication going and make tackles could easily improves our secondary. 

Wallace-  I don't expect him to come in and put up amazing numbers, but he adds another threat to our offense and can most likely teach BP some things.  The last couple years he has worked with two of the weakest arm QBs in the league, now he has Joe.  I wonder if we can use him in the return game?  When we won in 12', look at our WR corps- Boldin, Torrey, Jacoby.  Now: SSr, Wallace, BP.  There is a slight resemblance.  I mean Wallace is no Brian Quick, but I think he will do alright here. 

I would prefer to focus on the the talented young receivers get up to speed than a guy over his prime coming off a down year blaming everybody else. Perriman,Campanaro and Chris Moore become the go to guys. I liked Mitchell and Robinson better but Chris Moore is a phenomenal talent that caught mayocks and some of the big analysts eyes just before the draft as one of the best wr talents available in the draft!! faster and sudden in routes than thought

22 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

Pernell- I see what your saying and it could of gone either way, but I think @JoeyFlex5 hit it correctly, I think the FO wasn't ready to hand out that kind of contract after one break out year with lingering injury issues, Even last year he had injury problems.  He only missed 4 games in 4 years with us but always seemed to have something lingering.  I know he's 5 years younger than Doom, but if Doom is still out producing him then im rolling with that guy, hell, one year Doom had the same amount of sacks as Pernelll the entire time he was here. 

KO- I don't think the decision was made a year prior considering we still offered him a contract, he walked.  I think the FO feels they can replace KO easier than they can Weddle/Wallace.  Obviously I would have liked to keep KO, but for what the team wanted to do and to fill holes, it wasn't possible, it's a catch 22.  Just like when we traded Boldin, I was furious, but we got Doom out of that so I think it was worth it.  It's not as if we didn't even offer KO a contract, we did, but he knew he could get more elsewhere,  That's why Scott, Kruger, JJ, McPhee, Torrey left....they went to teams that could spend more, that's business. 

I do not like the Weddle or Wallace signings. Both are over their prime. Weddle was clearly not the same player last year and the chargers wanted no part of shelling out a big contract to him. Wallace is turning 30 and never was more than a deep guy. Weddle played the leader card and ravens took the bait. But he still needs to be a player. He is coming off a down year and a year older. Same with wallace

6 hours ago, KBoum said:

you know what ? there is probably not accurate at all... but the Ravens showed on their site a few pictures of the Rookie Camp and Correa was on a picture with LBs and not pass rushers in a sled drill. I'm probably wrong about that tho and it means nothing but I'm still thinking they'll use him as a SAM in a 4-3 Under Front

 

thats pretty much what the Seahawks and now Falcons run. They tried Beasley last season RDE (LEO) and he had to face OT so he wasnt effective enough. Thats my thought on Correa as well. This season, the Falcons moved Beasley to SAM Backer and he will get help from a 5-tech and will face TEs and RBs. Just like Correa would be A LOT more effective.

 

This is Dan Quinn scheme :

 

 

That is what I said from the jump about correa. I did not like the pick with him as a rush olb in the 3-4 or defensive end in a 4-3.  But after considering him at 4-3 strong olb I like the pick. If ravens have a legit defensive end and penetrating tackle in the 4-3 then Correa could beva very effective Blitzer that is tough to answer. But ravens do need legit lineman that stresses the oline for a high caliber Blitzer to be effective.  If Henry,Kufusi,  can be legit rushers that stress offenses then the oline could not pick up a Blitzer the caliber of Correa who could actually play edge rusher. But a key to his success as a Blitzer as well as an effective DLine is Correa becoming a 3down physical LB that can cover and read offenses and be in the right places like Mosley. He actually has to be able to play the lb position. So his blitzes will be a surprise mixed with his lb responsibilities. If he can not learn the lb position then he will not be a weapon as a blitzer. He will play down3 where the offense will know he is rushing and will not be as effective. To be fully effective he needs to be a physical 3 down lb. He could very well collect 10+ sacks and loads of pressures during the process of playing lb. in that case he could get to the qb and get a lot of fast pressure cuz the offense will not know if he is covering or blitzing. It hangs on how fast he could learn the lb position.  He could struggle against tackles that know he is coming. Not sure how much an impact he will make as a rookie. It hangs on how fast he can learn to play LB.  Henry and Kufusi will make more immediate impacts while on their way to dropping weight and adding muscle for their ideal nfl play weight. Spence will be monitored closely by fans. He is better equipped to get pressure on tackles as a rookie but likely not that interested in becoming a 3down lb

1 hour ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Great post. I don't think we have a Leo although I wonder is kaufusi could become one with proper weight training because he has the athleticism for it, that leaves us to wonder that if suggs and dumervil leave next year, who is the Leo and the 5t? 

 

I wonder if jernigan and henry could fill both 3t and 5t and swap constantly creating mismatches.

 

And now that I think about it... Judon, who is a pretty refined player who needs explosion training... Actually looks like a prototype Leo type of player. 

 

I think correa and kaufusi and henry indicate we are working towards a 43, but I still think we're pretty far off. I am happy to see us getting with the curve though and finally trying to dial up interior pressure with guys who can knife gaps and edge rushers who can work both shoulders of the OT Along with a 43OLB who can be absolutely devastating if he is kept in space. We have stocked up on run stuffers and space eaters for way too long and I'm happy to see us catching up with the league

Better player Will Henry or Buckner?? My opinion will Henry is behind only Nkemdiche in this draft as a penetrator!! And Nkemdiche is juiced up. If Henry was juiced up he woukd be unblockable. However his work ethic is off the charts so he will get there. Losing 14-18lbs of fat and packing on 12-14 lbs of muscle is his sweet spot. He will play atbthe 4.8 range with pocket caving power. His power, flexibility and acceleration is already very good. Once he gains a step of power and speed he is going to be an awesome force. See the Michigan state game?? He runs well enough to drop weight and play LB but with his power, flexibility and explosion I like him at penetrating tackle and 3-4 penetrating defensive end. His skills are very rare!!Kufusi  same situation. Drop 16-20 lbs of fat and pack on 10-14 lbs of muscle in his case to arrive at a scary explosive strong 280lbs. Playing at a 4.75 40 at 4-3 defensive end. His broad jump could hit 10' and his vertical 34-36". And his measureables do translate to in game speed and power.

This is a good discussion. Let's get some opinions and state your case and explanation who the impact rookies will be. I like many of the rookies. Will Henry/Dixon are my favorites. Henry has the raw tools of a geno Atkins and shriff Floyd fletcher cox with top shelf work ethic!! Will run a 4.8 snd bench 35 reps!!