Winchester

3 hours ago, jazz1988 said:

Maybe  combine results  played  a part In Ealy falling out of the first round but I found more than one source saying he wasn't worth being drafted in the first round base on watching him  play on tape alone.You can find those sources by typing  Ealy top ten pick  on Google . You should see something saying Notebook:Kony Ealy a First round ? by sb nation  and you should see a video by NFL.com title Missouri's Kony Ealy: I'm the best guy in this draft period . Both sources don't recognize him as a first rounder and even Mike Mayock had this to say about him"He was thought to be  a first round defensive end. However,theres a lack of consistency when you watch more tape".

 

Ealy even fell on  Mike Mayock board from being the second best defensive end to the fourth best . Timmy Jernigan was rated as the second best defensive tackle on Mike Mayock board and I even saw many mock drafts and etc having him go high in the 2014 draft especially to The Bears  but he fell to the second round possibily due to him failing his drug test.

 

I didn't know alot about Jernigan but he was quite dominate in his bowl  game when Florida State(his team) was playing against Ohio State.I really don't get how drafting  Elam in the first round is considered  a reach when the guy was rated as a first rounder and one of the better defensive players at his position  in the draft. It wasn't like The Ravens had a high pick in the first round either because they had the last pick in the first round that year in 2013.

Overall I don't see how it didnt make sense for The Ravens to draft Elam and Jernigan becuase both players fit the Ravens best player available model.

Ealy fell after the combine. I used to like Mayock but saw and heard some things he no longer cared about scouting like he once loved it. Anyways the #4 edge rusher could be a beast and the #2 tackle a touch above average. To be honest I watched about 10 plays of a game and the first player that I thought of was Bruce Smith. I believed he could of been in a little better shape(like Bruce coming out but he got in top shape) which made his burst and crazy flexibility/leverage that much impressive!! 

Jernigan was more a run stuffer and many said Elams limited skills would not transfer to the pro game. He was surrounded by superior talent at florida. He was a panic replace ed reed reach pick any way you cut it!! Ozzie Decosta even said are you ready to replace ed reed. It was a terrible pick at the time and worse pick now.  I can't believe there are fans that continue to back him as a potential standout player. Look at the date of those articles. You will more than likely find them dated post combine. Every player coming out you could say is inconsistent. Nobody dominates all the time. Mack was said to be inconsistent. This is the year jernigan needs to break out or he is just a solid player. I don't know how anybody can justify jernigan over Ealy and Robinson. There are no excuses. Ozzie Decosta overlooked far better players and selected Jernigan. Robinson is already a top 5 WR and Ealy is primed for a  great year. Jernigan is a touch above average.

I would have replaced Alex Lewis pick with Demarcus Robinson or Reshard Robinson. The Robinsons have all pro skills. I reaIly like t. Young but went out on a limb and said Reshard Robinson will be the best cornerback in the draft. Plays a lot like Sherman b4 he juiced up and got away with it. I like him as much as I did Ron Darby. Demarcus is the most skilled all around receiver in the draft. Every move is so coordinated fluid and lightning fast. I like him as much or more than Diggs coming out. I have so much confidence in them guys to be impact players I would trade next year's #1 pick for several round3 and 4picks to grab the Robinsons and a player in round 3 like the tackle the Browns drafted. Wouldn't be surprising if he is as good as Tunsil/Ron. He is as good or better than Conklin in my opinion. Anyways I know that is a bold move and going out on a limb to trade a future round1 pick for a round 3 and several round 4 picks. But I like those players that much. 

3 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I agree he was the best pass rusher but like I said he was misused. Everyone knew he wasn't a guy who should be in an island with the OT and he should be given space, and I'm saying the same about correa and I think He will be used properly.

That is what I Said regarding Correa and it seems to make everybody mad. I said he is a lethal Blitzer from the 43 strong side lb position but pitted against tackles in the trenches he could struggle. Kufusi is the dude that is going to be the destructive force at edge rusher. While Henry is the powerful yet athletic and explosive interior penetrator.  Note,see his bulllrush vs conklin. And then see Buckner vs conklin and tell me who should of been #7 overall and round4 comp pick!! Which gives the ravens young rushers at the edge, from the 43olb and an interior penetrator. If used correctly and tweak their body correctly the trio could all be total beasts. If Kufusi cuts 20lbs of excess to play the edge while adding 10-14lbs of muscle he will be as good as Jared Allen. I'm very rarely wrong about a players ceiling. And Kufusi if he tweaks his bod correctly just a touch he will be a man among boys. Henry tweaks his bod a touch and gets coached up and he will be the best interior penetrator in this draft.  Correa really doesn't Need to tweak his bod much. Maybe lean out 10-12 lbs but he is fine for strong side 43 olb position. Henry is good like he is but would serve himself to cut14-16 lbs of excess and put on 12-14lbs of muscle. He will be a monster.

24 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

What guys would you have targeted in, lets says the last 3 drafts, realistically?  Im curious.  Maybe the FO thought they were getting a better player at the position they selected.  Example- If you have a CB ranked 7th at his position and then you have a edge rusher ranked 15th at his position, you take the the higher rated player...

I agree with you that i think the FO messed up by not grabbing guys for Suggs and Doom to mentor.  Like how we waited to drafted Torrey's replacement after he left, you need to do it at least a year before imo

In 2014 Kony ealy was once projected a top10 pick that fell cuz of a bad combine. I dont know how jernigan could be ranked higher. When ravens were up in round 2 i was torn between Allen Robinson and Ealy. 2015 draft I liked daneel Hunter and could of traded up for Shane Ray. 2015 is a plethora of edge rushers. Ravens did not get a single one in a great draft. Then decide to reach in a terrible draft for edge rushers. Ozzie Decosta seems to love to keep going To the well of aging veterans and never plan to replace'em til hebis retired or ineffective. Harrison Smith should of been drafted and coached to replace ed reed. But reed was still playing and as usual the idea of his replacement never surfaced til he was no longer a raven. Then Ozzie Decosta reach for Matt Elam in the following draft.

6 hours ago, Sami84 said:

winchester, I'm not a noah spence fan. Much like  i wasnt a fan of sergio kindle. I actually think correa has a better burst than spence. I actually see spence as a bigger bust prospect than correa. I really came away unimpressed at his tape. He's like a poor mans whitney mercilius.

Actually I'm not being harsh on Correa. Nothing wrong witb him being a physical 3down olb that is an X factor as a blitzer. Spence Ngakoue are better benders but that is not saying much. This isn't a good draft for edge rushers at all. It is conceivable that no edge rusher in this class is going to be perennial double digit sack producers outside of Bosa/Kufusi.  That is where Ozzie Decosta angers me. I been saying a couple yrs now ravens need a young explosive edge rusher. Suggs Dumervil aging yet Ozzie Decosta ignore edge rusher in 2 drafts rich in edge rushers. Then a terrible draft for edge rusher comes around and ravens want edge rushers even if It means reaching for one when better players are available at different positions.

7 hours ago, Sami84 said:

just going by my eye test...at RT i've been mighty impressed with lane johnson for the past 2 seasons.

lane has put on considerable muscle since coming into the league. Thus has played very well while Fisher Joeckel struggled terribly!! Lane has got far stronger and it is the difference in his dominant play. He has put on about 16 lbs or so of functional symmetrical muscle since being drafted. If Ron Stanley could do the same he will be a perennial all pro left tackle. Dbrickshaw came into the nfl needing functional muscle. He never added much muscle. It is the difference in him being good and an elite left tackle and  He was good never elite

31 minutes ago, Ravensfan23 said:

You very well could. The fact of the matter is that none of us really know what to expect this year. Last year most media members had the Ravens a potential Super Bowl season because of the type of performance they had against the Pats in the playoffs. How did that work out for the Ravens? Now we have people saying that this team will suck based off of last year's performance. Truth is we just don't know until these guys play.

However I will say there is more evidence to suggest that this team hit a low last year because of a league high injuries, as opposed to just flat out being bad. imo

I agree. While bummed ravens did not get Demarcus Robinson and Reshard Robinson. I really like this draft. But not intended positions.Kufusi is going to be beast at edge rusher. Not an interior player. Henry is one of my favorite players in the draft. Dixon reminds me of my all time favorite ravens runner Priest Holmes. Who when he got to a team with more talent on offebse and better scheme, replaced Faulk as the best all around running back in the nfl. Ron Stanley has potential to be all pro. But you can't scoff at any acknowledgement of draft picks that did not and will not work out. And there are members and fans out there that get defensive and throw fits at the very mention of ANY player that will not work out as planned 

2 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

I wouldn't even say that. By the time players back out, you're looking at sometimes barely top 10 guys at their positions.

Matt Schaub and Vince Young are Pro Bowl football players. Once you say that, its hard to take any of it seriously.

Never said it was flawless. But for most part it is impact players. Schaub one year threw 4800 yards 30+ TDs. That is pro bowl caliber by anybody's standards.

2 hours ago, Sami84 said:

also winchester, its worth pointing out that correa even with a calf injury ran a pretty good 40  and a very good 10 second split. Without the injury you could be looking at a sub 1.6 split which is elite and not common. It was 1.61 with the slight calf issue. The biggest issue with correa is consistency with making the right decisions with his technique. I think he has a better motor than spence and Ngakoue. I actually really liked shaq lawson, his ceiling isnt super high ( i'd say chandler jones standard)but as an all round OLB/DE he's excellent. I have him ranked higher than Spence and Ngakoue. He's an all round player with good instincts. Kevin Dodd is awful and he can have all the sacks he wants it was based mostly on scheme. Think Jarvis Jones at georgia..People here were so worried and i just laughed and said he would never make it . I said the same thing about bud dupree and he was crap last year also..Linebacker is about instinct. Suggs wasn't the fastest coming out, nor would he have blown anyone away with his drill times, but he had immense instincts, power and hand technique.

I did not like Jarvis Jones at all!! He is weak and slow. He has tons of moves that helped him in college. But to slow and no power for the nfl level. Dodd was the edge rusher I wanted ravens to sail clear of. I like Kufusi far better!! I really like Correas explosion, motor and intelligence. I just believe it all adds up to a stand out strong side olb in the 4-3 defensive scheme.

1 hour ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

C'mon man you know that correa has the fastest first step in the class. You know Spence is overrated and if you pay more attention to game film rather than measurable then you also know ngakoue has a good chance of being an absolute nobody.

We will have to wait for the games to begin. Watch all the film you want. You have to know what counts and what doesnt. Tell me ONE play to view Correa bending the edge. All of his sacks are created by his burst to beat  subpar tackles. Look at Vic Beasley has better burst than Correa and is much stronger than correa. Yet he struggled cuz he only has moderate flexibility,moves,hand use. Yet his flexibility is a little  better than Correas. It is going to be interesting to see what everybody has to say when correa struggles if ravens try him at 43 defensive or 34 rush olb. It is like fans think it can argue a player into succeeding. And get defensive when somebody has an opinion that somebody may not work out at a particular position. Just because there is a need. A need at a position will not increase the likelihood of a draft pick being successful. Nobody really cared for Correa leading up to the draft. Now he is the best edge rusher in the draft.

5 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Nope, its just not filled with the best of the best players either.

Its somewhere in between, factoring heavier on the popularity aspect than the performance aspect.

I agree it is not without mistakes but in general it is the better players in the league

9 minutes ago, Sami84 said:

winchester, I'm not a noah spence fan. Much like  i wasnt a fan of sergio kindle. I actually think correa has a better burst than spence. I actually see spence as a bigger bust prospect than correa. I really came away unimpressed at his tape. He's like a poor mans whitney mercilius.

That is a fair comparison. Spence is not elite just the consensus best prototype in this draft. For pure edge rush skills I like Ngakoue best.  Spence has more bend,elusiveness and agility than Correa. I couldn't find much bend in Correa's game

1 hour ago, rmcjacket23 said:

I'll save you the trouble... he doesn't have one.

It will probably involve some references to the Pro Bowl or something else that has nothing to do with actual good football players.

Yeah cuz the pro bowl is filled with scrubs

2 hours ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

I would say CJ Mosley, Brandon Williams, Kelechi Osemele, Joe Flacco, Ray Rice, McPhee and Juice are all elite.

And Jimmy Smith, Rick Wagner, Gillmore, Williams, Perriman, and Stanley all have the chance to be, with some closer than others.

Thats 7 elite players in 8 years... no one finds an elite player every draft, especially where we've picked.

And we have a bunch others approaching or with the chance, and many who its way too early to tell. 

With all that elite talent ravens should compete for the championship correct??

53 minutes ago, Tiznut said:

True. Iirc early 90s Cowboys didn't have pro bowl defenders but still accomplished team goals 

Charles Haley was a freak!!

2 hours ago, trevorsteadman said:

Which brings back the question of what is the definition of elite? To me elite is top 3 at the position. I don't see any of our players except maybe Brandon Williams top 3 at their position. But we have a bunch of solid cornerstone players. And that is how we won the super bowl a couple years ago. A well rounded team with good depth and great coaching will get the job done. Ask New England. Most their players are average at best. 

Brady played 2014 at just a ridiculous level!! Like him or not the dude is  jaw dropping awesome

53 minutes ago, sflegend89 said:

Correa might actually be the best pure 3-4 pass rusher in this entire draft. Now he's not even close to being as complete of a player as Bosa in terms of also being able to set the edge and factor into the run game. But if you're just talking pass rush specialist Correa is your guy. Quickest first step off the LOS out of all the edge's, once he smartens up a bit and learns the tricks of the trade from Suggs/Doom he could be a dangerous guy in passing situations. Very much in the mold of an Elvis Dumervil, short arms, but makes up for it with superior burst and technique. Not a 3 down player but a very proficient pass rush specialist.

 

However he needs to get a go-to pass rush move, he can't just rely on his athleticism at the NFL level, if he can upgrade his pass rush arsenal he will be a player for us. 

Correa has a fast takeoff but I would not say the fastest. It is similar to Spence and Ngakoue.  However the latter 2 can do things Correa can not. Correa can probably learn the lb position faster than spence,Ngakoue and effeciently to be a very good 4-3 olb that excels at blitzing. But as a 3-4 olb he doesn't have the wiggle,bend and slipperyess to consistently beat nfl tackles. But you line him up as a 4-3 strong side olb he can be a real x factor as a Blitzer as well as fast 3down olb. That can cover zones in a blink defend the run and blitz

14 hours ago, Adreme said:

You mean a decade or longer ago when the Ravens were able to pick high in the draft every other year?  Its not that hard to get great players when you draft in the top half of the first round.  This whole thread is subjective though.  Calling Maxx Williams and Perriman busts or even listing them is crazy.

I would even go as far as to say Elam is premature considering he had 1 bad season and it was bad but it was his 2nd season before getting an unlucky season ending injury that derailed him last season when he looked like he might be wiling to take that step forward.

Excuses?? Nobody said bust. Ravens have not found any elite players in several drafts now.

1 hour ago, Sami84 said:

would love to see an upgrade at C though

Urschel was really physical at center when he adjusted to snapping the ball. He was really dominant the last couple games. Harbs went out of his way several times at interviews to sing his delight for Urschels physical play the last couple games. He is 6'3 320 lbs and a very good athlete. His workout numbers are really good as well. Zuttah is getting older and coming off injury. And is more of a stalemate blocker than a dominant block winner.

4 hours ago, Sami84 said:

Monroe is a far superior player than wagner when healthy. I guess we could try stanley at gaurd IF he gains a lot more strength. It really comes down to if Wagner was a one year wonder or not ( injury reasons or not)..

Sami, you really really know your stuff!! But I'm  not really so sure about that. I mean, He could be better, but Wagner was very dominant in 2014. He was the clear best right tackle. He was underrated coming out of college. Strong with really good workout numbers. He played jj watt very well at college practice. There should be competition. As for Stanley he will need to get a lot stronger to effectively play guard. In my opinion Ron Stanley and Monroe should compete for left tackle. However with Monroe's injuries Stanley will end up at left tackle. If Ron Stanley wins left tackle then Monroe and Wagner compete for right tackle. If it is a close race then Ron Stanley should get the job. The idea is for Ron Stanley to win left tackle. He is the #6 overall pick. Early round rookies are playing in the modern nfl. Especially if Tunsil plays week1 and lights it up and Ron Stanley can not win the left tackle job there will be mutiny!! Especially if ravens begin losing games

3 hours ago, Ravensfan23 said:

how many of those teams have actually won a Super Bowl or have been as successful as the Ravens in recent year? The Ravens have been more unlucky in the last 5 years than anything. How many young cornerstone players drafted within the last 10 years who aren't here because of injury or pricing themselves out of town?

Rice, Pitta, Torrey and KO were all cornerstone type of players on offense who were drafted 2008 or later, but are no longer here to no fault of the FO. Not to mention guys like Jimmy, Brandon, Tucker, CJ and Gilmore who have all shown pro bowl level play but has to be consistent. Then of you have your 30+ guys like Flacco, Yanda, Suggs, Forsett and Doom who can still play at a high level when healthy. Then there is young talent that has shown potential to be major parts of this team long term like Timmy, Juice, Urschel, Wagner, Guy, Aiken, Allen and Z. Smith. Then of course you have the young guys like Maxx, Davis, Urban, Brooks and Camp who you've seen signs of being able to contribute but you want to see them stay healthy and consistent. None of these makes mention of the rookie class. 

Call me a homer but I think the Ravens have a really strong nucleus and young foundation. The combination of injuries and young guys just not knowing how to finish games is what's done the Ravens in over the last couple years. The 2013 season was bad, but to bounce back and hold two 14 point leads ,on the road in a playoff game vs the Pats in 2014 and despite so many injuries to have 90% of your games in 2015 come down to one or two plays being made in the 4th quarter is very impressive. This team is primed for success and those that can't see it are unable to see through their emotions of seeing the Ravens lose imo.  

 

You could just as easily say those that can not see this team has to many needs can not see through their emotions of wanting to see the ravens do well and win

2 hours ago, DR32 said:

Is it bad that I'm most excited to see Judon and Ochi out of all of our draft picks/udfas?  The bad part is I'm not nearly as excited about Kafusi or Correa (hope I'm wrong). I guess the positive take is if we can hit on 2 of the 4 it's a great draft regardless of where they were taken. 

Kufusi is a big athletic dude. Like I said he is not really an interior player. He would help himself cutting 16-20lbs of bad weight and building 10-14 lbs of muscle to play the edge. With that kind of size,power and athleticism he could come out like a man among boys as a rookie. After a little body reshaping to play the edge he would be in the Mario Williams category at a leaner and stronger 6'6 280 lbs. He has very similar skills to Cameron Jordan but a little bigger stronger and more explosive than Jordan. My opinion that is his best nfl position. To lean out a little and play edge rusher

25 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Actually, that doesn't make sense at all.

If he's pointing out that 2010, 2011, and 2012 drafts were bad... but then we were really good in 2010, 2011, and 2012 then the point isn't we need to draft well now to be good this season. The only possible correlation would be that since we "drafted bad" in those years we are now suffering for it.

In which case the current draft and next years wont have an impact until 2018, 2019, and 2020... and since he's already tried to say our current drafts are bad then we're already doomed so we all might as well go into hibernation for the next 4-5 years until we can hope to rebuild this thing.

 

Except this all leaves out the players we drafted in later rounds who are better than many players drafted by any team in the 1st and 2nd rounds.

It's a stupid attempt at analysis. It does nothing, proves nothing, and doesn't compare to anything. There's nothing done to support his point that hitting on the top 2 rounds is what matters most to a teams current and future success. There was nothing shown to prove we've done any worse/better than the rest of the league in terms of our 1st and 2nd rounds picks EVEN IF we accepted that that's all that is important.

Overall this a pointless thread. From a person who claims to be able to do our FO's job better than them, this is a pretty awful attempt at player evaluation and projection for team success.

 

There has been many better drafting teams than ravens of late. Again ravens cornerstones 5 yrs ago were players drafted over a decade ago and longer.

17 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Teams decline due to a lack of quality coffee and you know it.

Ravens must be using Maxwell house and foldgers. Get some Starbucks in the facility for the rookies

This isn't about former accomplishments. It is about maintaining it and keeping goals peaked

34 minutes ago, Danny D said:

Do you believe the rest of the league would sign up for the last 3 seasons?  What has been illustrated is a team in decline. When a team is In decline, the longer it goes on, the worse it gets. Tank92 understands the subject, he's just going to evaluate it upon whether we have another losing season or not.  The reason for the recent decline are the decisions of the last 7 years and as prefaced, especially the decisions of the last 4 years.  If you don't like the manner in which the topic is getting you to think, take a look at the Bengals drafts of the last 7 years and reply again.

When a team isn't making hay with 1st and 2nd round selections there is a problem.  Those blue highlights should be completely reversed. They should dominate the page and not accent it.

1st and 2nd rounders should predominantly be plug and play. Especially drafting as high as 6th. If they are not, someone has conditioned us with proprietary kool aid.

You make a lot of valid points. And a losing season again would mean ravens are declining. Team needs impact from this and last draft

You asked who is paying him for his insight as if there is no credit or fact in what his opinion is