EdTheMythicalOne

2 minutes ago, Jonah DeVito said:

Haha that front 7 getting pressure is where I get worried. Hoping we get Barnett at #16. 

I'm with you on that. Right now we are depending on an aging and coming off of injuries again Suggs, the inconsistent Jernigan in the middle, Michael Pierce repeating and improving on his play from last year from the middle, then lord knows who at the other OLB spot and lord knows who at Guys' spot. Not that Guy was a pass rushing threat. Matt Judon showed some promise but who knows if that is legit. Z. Smith also showed some promise in 2015 and then disappeared in 2016 when he had more of a chance to play.

The team did better with the turnovers last season and that is something that needs to continue in 2017. If people don't think we need to draft another edge rusher as the roster currently stands then they need to think again. Not only do we need a start to replace the loss of Dumervil, but we also need the replacement for Suggs who won't play forever.

3 hours ago, ravensdan said:

How does that justify throwing away 16 mil?  They could have spent that money to build around any number of up and coming players. Not to mention Brock is better than anyone they have. And they aren't getting Garolpollo. Horrible decision. Texans lucked out. 

The Browns quite simply had money to burn and they have to spend the required minimum money. They essentially bought a 2nd round draft pick that could either turn into a pick or a piece of a negotiation for another trade. I agree that it was ultimately stupid to trade for a guy and a pick and give up tons of money for a player you never intend to keep and essentially broadcast to the world that they will cut if they can't trade him by a certain date. Who in the world would trade for him when they know he'll get cut? It is just like the Tony Romo situation. The Cowboys want to trade him. Ain't no way some team will be stupid enough to offer them anything for Romo when they know they can sign him to a free agent deal when he gets cut....unless Romo wants to play for the Browns

I seriously think the Texans made out on this deal. They got an albatross contract off of their books for a second round pick a year from now. Now they have money freed up to make some moves.

11 minutes ago, PuRock said:

This is really sad news.  Although I don't post here as much as I used to due to life, I still linger around a lot.  I'm not one of the OG posters but I'm pretty close.  Joined when the boards opened back in 2007.  I like a lot of the posters here and this place has been a sort of home. I rely on the knowledge shared here more than the so-called experts.  

I hate how message boards are shutting down (like IMDB) and we are being pointed to Facebook and Twitter instead.  There are no meaningful discussions there, just people blabbing out single opinions into open space with no common theme.  

Ugh.    

And there are no filters there to weed out the people that are simply just trying to start nonsense. I am all about freedom of expression but if your intent is to simply disrupt the conversation and your posts consist of nothing but "So-and-so sucks," then what conversation are you really going to have?

8 minutes ago, Jonah DeVito said:

I mean Weddle played pretty darn well in coverage last year. He had a ton of pass deflections, something like 4 picks (and several drops that should've been picks). Plus Jefferson isn't bad in coverage either. So I honestly am not worried at all. 

He did do well in coverage at the SS position with Webb as his tandem mate who is probably better at coverage overall than either Weddle or Jefferson. I am not really worried that they will both be horrible. I think they both will be pretty good. It is really all about schemes. Of course if our front 7 can get more pressure the coverage issue won't be a big of a concern.

Just now, allblackraven said:

For reasonable money, he'll be great complement to Mosely. Would rather have KC back him up than someone else back up Correa.

We can make some more space with cuts

True, but only by so much.

Pitta restructured but we have no idea for how much. Watson could be cut but that doesn't really free up a lot of space. Zuttah I think would get us a couple mil? The rest of the guys are mainly back up players that aren't earning very much. Not sure exactly what our cap number is now but I don't see how we could fit the signing of Zach Brown, Connor Barwin, Morris Claiborne, and Nick Mangold...and then still have money left over for the draft. I just don't think there's enough money left in cuts to make.

1 minute ago, allblackraven said:

Yes he is

Mhm, he was signed as an afterthought by the Bills on a one year deal for relatively cheap. He wasn't supposed to be the starter but Ragland went down with an injury.

His stock certainly has risen but by how much? Does one break out year grant you a big payday?

Just now, allblackraven said:

He's on my wish list perpetually it seems. Wanted him last year, too.

Going all Wacky for Zachy. I like his numbers as well and could be a good duo with Mosley but I can't see how we can fit all of these guys on the team and under cap while leaving enough space to sign our draft picks.

12 minutes ago, RavensFanMania said:

Ed, I've watched him his tape as well. He's very athletic, think he will do very well in Guys role. Better in time. 

Hope you guys are right, but I won't be holding my breath. If he takes off and becomes a beast in the NFL you all can be sure to tell me so, but you'll have to do it on another board unfortunately as this one might be gone by the time that happens.

What tape have you all actually watched though? His scouting highlights tape or have you actually watched him for every down of every game he's played? I doubt very sincerely it is the latter. Anyone can look good on highlights. What you really need to do is to see him on a down by down basis. Have you seen all the plays where he gets washed out by better/bigger/stronger talent?

1 minute ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

Clearly you know nothing about batman

Clearly you haven't watched the Gotham series. It is absolutely ridiculous. The premise of that show is to tell the story of the city before the arrival of Batman. He's just a pre-teen/teenager in this series.

Jim Gordon wasn't even a commissioner yet. He's got no super powers yet he is a combination of the smartest man in the room and the ultimate action star who can beat up anybody and get himself out of any jam. When he really needs to get something done he calls on his good buddy Alfred the Butler who is ex-special forces for the British Royalty and he's just as unstoppable as Gordon is.

Of course I know how cool Batman is in the actual series and such that he is actually a part of.

1 minute ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

@EdTheMythicalOne was that a white men cant jump reference?

Why yes, yes it was.

5 minutes ago, allblackraven said:

Hightower is likely too expensive, have just included him because it's taking some time to find new home. Perhps market isn't as high as he hoped for but still too high for us.

Mario Williams was OK last season. His struggles at Bills were due to playing out of position for Rex. 

Barwin and Zach Brown are top of my wish list from this bunch.

I agree about Williams in that system. He clearly was not a fit where they tried to play him. He did not do well at all in Miami at all and he only made 5 starts. They were willing to eat a lot of dead money to cut him.

Thing is I think he lost his passion for the game. If you can get him motivated again I think he's got some good football left in him. He might not get big money like he might want, but perhaps the lure of playing for the Ravens and having a chance at some post season play would be enough to get him going again. We've got an opening to fill and if he's ready to play ball then he could be a very nice piece. Just that his last two seasons of work really don't bode well for that. Playing completely out of position certainly didn't help him in Buffalo. Not sure what the deal was in Miami though. That team went 10-6 and with a good year out of him they might have been even better.

8 minutes ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

You're right. But I've watched his tape. That's my opinion, the writer just happens to share the same one. If you disagree, fine. But I disagree with the NFL Network scouting reports, which do get it wrong as frequently as they get it right. 

I think they get it right more often than a beat writer. He had the hawks taking him first round. The NFL scouting report had him going 4-5. He actually went third, so the NFL scouts were a lot closer on him than the beat writer.

Tape is fine for college. You have to remember he will be going up against more elite talent at the NFL level. The tape shows that when going up against guys stronger than him he gets redirected easily. That most of his production comes from his hustle than from talent/skills. Like I said before, you can't knock hustle and the will to track down plays from sideline to sideline and a relentless will can turn into production for sure.

The only way we will really know is if/when he's entirely healthy and going up against some NFL talent. I am excited to see what he can do but I am not ready to buy into him being something special. If he is that will be supremely awesome. But if he winds up as JAG (just another guy) that would not surprise me in the least.

3 minutes ago, Deflated Football said:

I'm curious as well 

The only Butler I want is Alfred; especially the Gotham series version. Who the heck needs Batman when you got super Commissioner Gordon and one man army Alfred?

4 minutes ago, PurpleHorseman said:

I'm listening but I'm not the one attacking anybody for their opinion. My opinions are my opinions. It changes sometimes. But not based on what players we bring in or let walk elsewhere. I'm warming to Jefferson a little I guess, But miss Wagner

You can listen to Joey, but you can't HEAR Joey.

I have to side with Joey on the Pollard and Reed issue. They were football moves and nothing else. Reed was a ghost of himself and his post Ravens career proved that. Pollard didn't exactly light it up after he left either, of course he also got hurt so you can't really blame that on lack of talent/production.

I think everyone here that is a real Ravens fan will miss Ricky Wagner. He's what we all love. A later round pick panning out and starting a playing well.

I didn't think the Tony Jefferson deal would be a possibility but I am of course happy with it. I do question how the back end of Weddle and Jefferson will play out because they are not exactly blessed with terrific speed so I wonder what the coverage will be like. But you have to like the swagger of having two hard nosed hitters that have no qualms about coming up in the box and laying a hit on somebody. Both of them exude confidence and pride.

1 hour ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

Hi, I've watched his tape. He's a beast with very high upside. Inconsistent on his college tape? Sure. But when he was on, he was unblockable. People shouldn't take nfl network scouting reports as gospel. You should watch him for yourself, and then form your own opinions. Truthfully, I HATED it at first because I usually look at the scouting reports first, but still go back to the tape. 

 

I like Bronson a lot. He or Henry are both gonna be good pieces moving forward imo. Now, would it surprise me if we still drafted a dlinemen? Nope, Ozzie tends to draft one every year. It's actually a good strategy. 

 

It's correa I'm worried about. 

And people shouldn't take a beat writer's opinion as gospel either.

4 minutes ago, allblackraven said:

Still free agents:

LB: Dont'a Hightower, Zach Brown, Kevin Minter
OL: TJ Lang, Nick Mangold,  D.J. Fluker
Edge: DeMarcus Ware, Connor Barwin,  Erik Walden
DL: Jared Odrick, Mario Williams,  Chris Long
CB: Morris Claiborne

Out of the line backers obviously there is something to like about Hightower but I think his market is very high and I don't think there is much chance to get him. I like Brown but again it depends on his market, but he is a hometown guy (born in Columbia, MD) Minter might be a nice pick up depending on the money. I think depending on what you can get Minter for he might be a decent player that could start or sub in depending on how Correa pans out.

For the OL I like Mangold if helathy and I think Fluker fills a need at either RG or RT. He's not a great piece, but he's better than Ducasse IMO and definitely better than nobody.

Obviously like Claiborne at CB.

I think you are forgetting that Dumervil is still available on the edge and might come a bit cheap considering his last couple of seasons and age.

Connor Barwin could be intriguing because in our system he'd probably be moving back out to OLB instead of DE. He seems to fit the OLB position better. I think Demarcus Ware doesn't have much left in the tank. We need a starting edge player and Ware is not that right now in his career. Walden to me seems like a clone of Dumervil. A bit undersized and a pure rusher that doesn't offer much run support or pass coverage. He will also be 32 so maybe we'd be in the same boat with him after coming off of a career year?

If Mario Williams didn't look so bad in his last couple of seasons I wouldn't mind returning him to DE in our 3-4 to take the spot vacated by Lawrence Guy.

3 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

i wasnt a big fan of kaufusi, i wanted billings there so we wouldnt have to re-sign williams for so much, im not big on super tall trench guys who dont have that natural lean and bend and struggle with leverage, BUT that shuttle time is amazing when considering his size, and his get-off and motor is excellent for a guy with his build, it definitely gives a base to build on. 

i wouldnt call the guy a freak athlete, but i would call him a bit of a freak in general, he IS athletic and built like a behemoth, if he bulks up his legs and gets up to 290 and replaces the midsection fat with muscle, and learns some leverage technique, he could be a steal. i think he'll ultimately just end up a roleplayer who makes some plays due to his motor and natural ability, but i dont think hes gonna live up to his potential fully.

I think any football player can be considered athletic. I mean, you have to be some sort of athlete to get to this level. But just because you are athletic doesn't mean you will be a good football player.

Like I said, the only freakish thing about him is the shuttle time. Everything else is nothing special. His 40 time isn't great even for his size. His bench press wasn't great especially for his size. His jumps were nothing special.

  2 hours ago, billiejean said:

How would you rank these 2013 draft classes

Pitt
1 Jarvis Jones
2 Leveon Bell
3 Markus Wheaton
4 Shamarko Thomas
4 Landry Jones
5 Terry Hawthrone
6 Justin Brown
6 Vince Williams
7 Nick Williams

Denver
1 Sylvester Williams
2 Montee Ball
3 Kayvon Webster
5 Quanterus Smith
6 Vinston Painter
7 Zac Dysert

New England
2 Jaimie Collins
2 Aaron Dobson
3 Logan Ryan
3 Duron Harmon
4 Josh Boyce
7 Michael Buchanan
7 Steve Beauhrnais

Ravens
1 Elam
2 Brown
3 B. Will
4 Simon
4 Juice
5 R Wagner
6 Kapron Lewis Moore
7 Aaron Mellette
7 Marc Anthony
 

Really, look at all the players in the draft that year and count how many showed some good production. Even the Seahawks don't have any picks from that draft left on their roster, and they won the Super Bowl that year.

Why not compare it to all 32 teams in the NFL and see how that ranking stacks up. I don't have the time or desire to do that. All I know is that if you whiff big on your first two draft picks and at least one of them is a first rounder, then you didn't have a great draft.

I think Juice was a reach at 4th round. We lucked out with Wagner and we didn't keep Simon. KLM, Mellette, and Anthony never did much of anything for this team.

So essentially 3 players panned out for the Ravens. One is a starting DT that is one dimensional. A very good piece no doubt. The other was a starting RT that while healthy did a good job. The last one is a starting FB and like I said, a lot of teams wait to get these guys as UDFA's. Juice was a nice player, but does he really qualify as a player you drool over?

So they had a 33% success rate in the draft. 3/9 players they kept and contributed.

4 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

he knows absolutely nothing. his ideas come from nowhere, no film study, no idea of scouting traits, nothing. just reading box scores and listening to talking heads who's opinions are aimed at the least knowledgeable football fans, so i guess thats a solid source for him, but as soon as he gets into a football debate with someone who knows something, its all "lol sorry i dont spend all my time watching football like you losers".

The only freakish thing about Kaufusi was the shuttle time. That shows good agility and change of direction. He was pedestrian in just about everything else. His 40 time wasn't amazing. His bench press wasn't special. His vertical and other jumps weren't special. To put that in perspective OLB Tyler Starr ran a 6.64 shuttle drill, a great time for a guy that's 6'4'' 250lbs. Everything else about him was either pedestrian for his position or underwhelming.

I'm not saying Kaufusi is terrible. We haven't seen enough of him to say so. By the same measuring stick we can't deduce that he will be a beast. He's got things to like for sure. Love hearing about guys that have a high motor and never give up on a play. Sometime hustle can and will make up for other deficiencies.

27 minutes ago, PurpleHorseman said:

I agree Pryor is a work in progress. But that is a good thing. He has a higher roof than Aiken. Considering the upside I wouldn't call it stupid to pay him. Because it could very well work out in their favor. That is what free agency is about. Finding players that are hitting their stride before breaking out and costing a truckload of money.

Some guys have enough raw skills to produce before learning all the nuances. Brandon Marshall was supposed to be an H back. But wowed the broncos as a rookie. One practice coaches knew he was a WR and he was special. Pryor inspires that kind of feeling about his roof. Aiken will have a tough time finding anybody that wants him. Their numbers were similar but that is the end of their comparisons. Their roof isn't even close. At all.

On flip what about Michael Floyd? He has the DWI and jail time. But no DV at least. He is big and fast supposedly although I haven't watched him play really. I like Kendall Wright a lot actually. He is very underrated.

Think about what you say in your opening comment for a minute. The Redskins paid a work in progress $8 million dollars on a one year contract. That means if he busts you wasted $8 million and if he breaks out that means you lose him in free agency next year or have to pay through the roof to get him re-signed. That's stupid on two levels.

I agree that Aiken has pretty much peaked. I don't know about Pryor and that's the risk on him. Remember, teams were not busting down his door to ink him to a long term deal. I would tend to think the people in the NFL know a bit more about him than you or I do. You have no idea if Pryor peaked, over achieved, or is just at the tip of the iceberg. If it is my money, I am not spending $8 million on that chance, especially when my need is for a proven guy.

Floyd would have been a no brain call if not for the off the field issues. Now I think it is right player, right price. The Ravens did sign Stallworth in the past and he had an involuntary manslaughter from his DUI+accident. I think that really depends on how Floyd is doing right now and if he's serious about getting himself cleaned up. That's one of those doing your homework moves just like I think is what the call will be on drafting Ruben Foster if he drops to 16.

For the kind of money he received there is no way the Ravens could afford to keep him. We've got other people on the roster currently who can hopefully fill the void. I will miss him and he was one of those classic Ozzie great pickups. He was basically a forgotten man in San Diego. He was a great value player for us and now he gets paid for his hard work and determination.

I don't like that he's going to New England of all places. I remember one other former Ravens player that went to New England and didn't really have a good go of it. Anybody remember Adalius Thomas? He was a super freak of an athlete for our team as he played DE/OLB and even lined up at MLB and S once in awhile. He was a star here and completely flopped in New England. Different scenario though.

The Pats don't need Guy to be a superstar. Guy isn't outside of his prime years. Guy is also more of a team concept kind of player. I think he will fit well there and have some very good seasons with them.

44 minutes ago, PurpleHorseman said:

I get what you are saying. But I like Pryor far better in the eye test. He looks faster more elusive than Aiken. While much bigger. There's a reason everybody gets the feeling Pryor is scratching the surface while Aiken overachieved his talent.

as for Kaufusi and Henry. Kaufusi is not athletic enough for rush olb. And not nearly strong enough to play the line. When he got hurt he was told work on his body for next year.  I don't know what the hell that is supposed to do. If he isn't stout or athletic enough. Henry Iooks like a good athlete but not really a football player. He looks to have no savvy for getting off blocks. In preseason games he was stuck on blocks of backup players. I don't know only my guesses dude. maybe he could be coached up. But I prefer draft a penetrator like DJ Jones. One of my favorites in this draft. I really wanted Easley.

I think you should take a look at more tape on Pryor and see how many times he falls over with little or no contact after a catch. For a guy as big as he is he sure goes down easy. He's not as fast as people think. I get that he's still a work in progress at the position but that is all the more reason why a team needing a consistent playmaker shouldn't put all their eggs in his basket as he needs to learn more route running. There are also character concerns with Pryor whereas there is no such noise about Aiken. I agree that Aiken overachieved, but I think the same can be said for Pryor.

Again, look at the lack of interest in paying Pryor a big money, long term contract. Again, look at the only team stupid enough to pay him that type of money was the Redskins.

28 minutes ago, ravensdan said:

Guy is a Patriot

Saw this move coming once it said they were interested in him. He will be a good fit for their defense and will be a favorite of the coaching staff there. I think he will have some great seasons for New England.

Deal is reportedly 4 years for $20 million. Looks like the projected $4-$5 million per year was spot on and that kind of money certainly priced him out of the Ravens radar.

On 3/10/2017 at 2:00 PM, Tank 92 said:

6'6", 285 with that quickness?  It ain't just a pipedeream, dude could be a beast. 

And then there is this.

"Strengths

Has an honest father as a coach who has been up front about Bronsons weaknesses and what he needed to work on. Plays with the motor expected from a coachs son. Quality hand work and is able to redirect with them. Good back­side presence in running game and charges hard down the line of scrimmage. Comes out of his stance and into his pass rush with good pad level and forward lean. Never quits on plays and will pursue way down the field. Has a long frame that may be able to carry more muscle. Posted productive totals in most categories. Blocked a field goal and punt in 2015.

Weaknesses

Too easily caved in and washed down when blocked on angles. Tries to bend but pad level still ends up higher than he would like thanks to his height. Play strength is an area of concern. Thin legs lose their base when he is redirected with power. Tight-­hipped pass rusher that has a prolonged corner turn to the quarterback -- even on wins. Much of sack production came on extended plays or with effort over skill. Unable to generate consistent penetration when slanting into gaps. In 2014, lost weight and attempted to play outside linebacker but experiment was a failure.

Draft Projection

Rounds 4 or 5"

The article you mention does not state any of his weaknesses, which is actually literally weakness. He doesn't have elite upper body strength nor does he have strong lower legs. He has a high motor and is a gamer so that usually translates well. The thing is that for an interior lineman that plays in a 3-4 is it more important to run a better 40 time when taking off from a sprinting stance, or to be explosive off the ball? The numbers in that comparison show that the other player in question had a better vertical, broad jump, and 10 yard split.

That article also states he could be a first pick overall for Seattle and this NFL.com scouting report projects him as a 4th or 5th rounder. The Ravens then reached by that measuring stick by taking him in the third.

Here's a little something if you feel like having your brain melted in trying to determine comp picks.

Here's what I boil this down to:

1) Your team has to lose more qualified compensation pick players than they gain. So far we've only lost Wagner and Juice and our gains have been Tony Jefferson and Danny Woodhead. Wagner certainly qualifies after his monster contract and should be our highest rated player which would net us a third round compensatory pick. Thing is, he is sort of off set by Tony Jefferson. Considering the process takes into account the new contracts the player signed and post season awards, Juice might qualify since he's now the top paid at his position and also was a pro bowl player. Danny Woodhead on the other hand may not qualify due to back to back injury prone seasons.

2) The level of the pick you get depends on the amount the player gets paid on their new contract as for Average per year. It also takes into account any awards the player earned. So it sort of depends on what the rest of the other qualifying players get, but I am not clear as to whether that is every player, or just players at the same position.

We've still got some time to let things all play out depending on players that get signed and for how much, and then how many more qualifying players the Ravens sign.