EdTheMythicalOne

What is a joker defender? I never heard that Phrase. A "Joker" defender is simply a defensive player you can move all around the field. I am not sure if you were a fan long enough to remember Adalius Thomas who would normally play DE, but would move to DT, OLB, MLB, and even lined up as a safety. It now seems to pertain to guys that can play SS/MLB or go from outside corner to nickel to safety. It is just a new buzzword term for the word "Versatile"

This is a term Owner Steve Bisciotti hates to use and said that the Ravens would never be "rebuilding" because he wants a team that is consistently competitive and has a chance for the playoffs and better every season. To his credit under the Harbaugh era that has been true. The Ravens have tried to keep their core stars around and have had only two losing seasons under Harbaugh; and the first one you can toss out because of all of the disastrous injuries that swept through the roster. But we're seeing key names and players leave due to market issues and the amount of money the Ravens are already paying others. Rick Wagner is gone, Juice is gone, I feel very strongly that Brandon Williams will be gone, Dumervil is gone, and Suggs will not be playing much longer. Add in Yanda not getting any younger and we have no wide receivers of much merit other than Mike Wallace who also might be cut. Webb may be gone, Jimmy Smith can't stay healthy, Lawrence Guy is gone, Zuttah is probably gone, and Dennis Pitta will either take a pay cut or simply be cut. Time to go young with the draft and adopt a New England approach. They never sign the really high priced free agents to huge mega deals. But they also seem to have a coach and organization that while players may not always like it...they just win and winning is everything. Harbaugh is very much a players' coach. He likes them to express themselves and be themselves. Bill Bilicheck for all you may hate him for does not play that. You either do it his way and you play, or you can get lost on the bench and cut. It will depend on this draft class and the previous ones as to how well the Ravens can do until their next superstars emerge..if ever.

Please see the accompanying poll.

I've been seeing a lot of posts in articles written and just on the comments and boards here in general about how the Ravens seem to be whiffing on a lot of upper tier picks recently, especially the second round. This got me to thinking...have the Ravens ever drafted well with their second round picks? I plan to post all of the second round picks since the team's inception and let you, the fans decide: 1996: 2nd round: CB: DeRon Jenkins...AKA: "toast." He played four seasons with the Ravens, never a starter, and in his last season with this team was relegated to Special Teams. Hung in for two more unimpressive seasons with SD and TEN. 1997: 2nd Round: LB: Jamie Sharper: Was a 5 year starter with Baltimore and really started to click in his final season with the team. He wasn't a supremely disruptive force in his time with Baltimore but they got a 5 year starter out of the pick and that's exactly what you want out of a high pick. 1997: 2nd Round: S: Kim Herring: Was a full time starter in 2 of his 4 years with the team and put up his best season in his walk year. Cashed in on a big contract with the Rams where he continued to be a good starter before the injury bug bit him hard. I don't think he provided as much value as Sharper did. 1998: 2nd Round: WR: Patrick Johnson: Supremely fast (he once beat Olympic dynamo Carl Lewis in a race) but could never get open or catch a ball. If your first thought when reading the name listed was "WHO?" then you kind of answer the question of feast or famine. 1999: No 2nd round pick. 2000: No 2nd round pick. 2001: 2nd Round: CB: Gary Baxter: Baxter was a 3 year full time starter in his four seasons with Baltimore. At 6'2'' 204lbs he was a force to be reckoned with and paired up extremely well opposite Chris McAlister. He played very well for us and cashed in big with Cleveland but injuries caught up with him as well and derailed his career. I presonally think this was a good pick. 2002: 2nd Round: DL: Anthony Weaver: Was a 4 year full time starter in each of his seasons with the team. He was a disruptive force as he caused fumbles, swatted away passes, and did get to the QB a bit. He went on to be another 3 year full time starter for Houston before a shoulder injury ended his career. 2003: No 2nd Round Pick 2004: 2nd Round: DT: Dwan Edwards: Edwards was a rotational player for the first three seasons and then became a regular starter for the final two seasons here with Baltimore, played two seasons with Buffalo as a starter and then four more seasons with Carolina as a starter and then rotational guy that saw plenty of snaps until his final season with them in 2015. He was better in his time after a Raven, especially with Carolina when he became a pass rushing threat. While we didn't get all the value out of him that he had, his success elsewhere and 11 year career I think proves that he was a good pick. 2005: 2nd Round Pick: Dan Cody: Cody was a hyped pick but unfortunately barely ever played due to blowing out his knee in camp almost as soon as we got him in camp. This pick was a bust simply because we never got to see him play. 2005: 2nd Round Pick: OT: Adam Terry: Terry had the looks, a big guy at 6'8'' 330lbs he had the makings of a monster mauler type. Unfortunately he didn't have the heart or durability to ever fulfill that promise. He spent four unimpressive seasons as a back up/situational starter for us before missing all of a season and then playing 2 games for SD. 2006: 2nd Round Pick: OG: Chris Chester: At 6'3'' 300lbs. and being a former TE, he had the athleticism the Ravens were looking for, but wasn't as physical as he needed to be in our system at the time. He was a full time starter for the team in the three of his last five seasons with the team and then went on to be a full time starter for the rest of his career which was 4 more years with Washington and 2 more with Atlanta. He was a good player overall, just didn't fit our scheme at the time. 2007: No Second Round Pick 2008: 2nd Round Pick: RB: Ray Rice: Don't think I need to say too much here. Without Rice we probably don't win the second SB. Unfortunately an off the field domestic abuse issue forced his premature departure with this team and as a result cost him the rest of his career. 2009: 2nd Round Pick: DE/OLB: Paul Kruger: Part of Kruger's issue is that the Ravens couldn't decide if he was an End or an OLB in our system and Kruger didn't thrive in any as a starter. He found success in his last two seasons, especially in his final season as a situational pass rusher and then starter down the stretch and in the playoffs for the Ravens. Cashed in BIG with the Browns where in three seasons he turned in only one good one and was ultimately cut before signing on with the Saints to have yet another poor season. 2010: 2nd Round Pick: OLB: Sergio Kindle: Ouch. We never got to see what kind of pass rushing monster Kindle could be because almost right after we drafted him he "slept walked" after drinking a lot at a party and fell down a flight of stairs which fractured his skull and left him with some permanent hearing loss. But that's okay because we had ANOTHER 2nd round pick in 2010, right? 2010: 2nd Round Pick: DT/NT: Terrence Cody: AKA: "Mt. Cody" was a massive body that the Ravens envisioned eating up blockers in the middle of the defense and allowing everyone else to roam free. Unfortunately Cody ate lots of other things. At nearly 400lbs perhaps his combine numbers should have said something to the Ravens as he did only 19 reps of 225lbs. Add in injury issues and you got a big disappointment figuratively and literally speaking. Ouchx2. 2011: 2nd Round Pick: WR: Torrey Smith: Paired up with big arm QB Joe Flacco Torrey used his great speed to very good results in this offense and becoming the ONLY drafted WR by the Ravens to go over 1,000 yards in a season. Able to make big time plays and score the football he was a full time starter in each of his four seasons in Baltimore. Due a big pay raise, he cashed in big in FA with the 49ers and has had two lackluster seasons with them. 2012: 2nd Round Pick: OG: Kelechi Osemele: He may be one of the best Guards in the game right now as a sheer massive mauler and was a full time starter in each of his four seasons with the Ravens and was credited for the turn around in Oakland in his first full season with them. If nagging injuries don't become more bothersome moving forward he may be an all time great as he's missed at least some playing time in each year following his first with the Ravens. 2013: 2nd Round Pick: MLB: Arthur Brown: Brown never made it passed Special Teams contributor in his three seasons with the Ravens before they finally gave up on him and he then spent 2016 between the Jets and Jags as a special teamer as well. 2014: 2nd Round Pick: DT: Timmy Jernigan: Jernigan is a bit of an enigma right now as he at times shows flashes of becoming a disruptive force from the interior line, but getting derailed by stupid penalties or just lack of production. He's become a full time starter in his third season with the Ravens and it will be interesting to see if it finally clicks for him in his next season. If it does plan on Jernigan walking for a huge pay day as big time pass rushing threats from his position are rare commodities. 2015: 2nd Round Pick: TE: Maxx Williams: Williams like Jernigan is a question mark right now, when on the field he's shown flashes of being the Todd Heap-like playmaker the Ravens thought they were getting. But nagging injuries in his first season kept him off the field and a major injury kept him completely off the field in 2016. He will need to stay healthy and regain his form next season. It will be a big make or break year for him IMO. 2016: 2nd Round Pick: LB: Kamalei Correa: An under the radar pick, the Ravens had fans questioning the pick from the onset even though pundits around praised how well Correa shows up on film. Perhaps they should have questioned the competition level he faced. Admittedly he does look good to my eyes on his college game tape, but now he's going up against the best of the best. He was hyped so much but other than getting into scrums with veterans (including one that broke one of Dennis Pitta's fingers/thumb) he made literally no noise. Thinking his game doesn't quite match up for a outside rushing threat and an injury forcing Zach Orr to retire there is talk of KC moving to ILB. He got limited playing time in his rookie season partially due to unimpressive play and a major injury. It will be interesting to see just what he turns into going forward.

Didn't see a thread like this yet and since the combine is done and some of the pro days are already done...and with free agency being in full swing why not start thinking ahead of our pipe dream Ravens picks? I am not an adept student of the college game nor do I have any real clue as to who is being drafted when. I will let the other guys around here that know more than I do sort all that out. I simply want to get this conversation started for my own curiosity and offer up one name in the news recently. The player is CB Sidney Jones who is considered by many "experts" to be a top 5 corner in this draft class and a day one pick. The news on him is horrible though. He suffered an apparent Achilles tendon injury on the very last drill of his pro day. Since he's expected to miss almost all if not all of his rookie season his draft stock has obviously dropped, but by how much? Will he make it out of the first round now? If he drops to the second round will he drop low enough for the Ravens to pick him up? If he is there in round two should the Ravens draft him? They need corner help now, but being able to stash away first round talent at a second round price (or maybe lower?) and being able to team him up with another free agent pick up or highly touted draft pick next season might be intriguing enough. I could also envision a team that doesn't really have a high pick and not needing immediate help this season picking him up very late in round one if they believe in the talent. *I normally sign into the Ravens Talk section and didn't realize there was a separate forum dedicated soley to the 2017 Draft. I apologize for this to all of you and to the mod that has to take time to remove/move this thread. I reposted this in the DB's section here in the appropriate place so guys, please do comment here instead!*

I didn't look it up. Didn't care enough to do so. Maybe if he played better as a Raven I might have.

In other news, earlier this off season Anquan Boldin had previously stated if he couldn't get another deal done in Detroit that he'd likely retire. Seems like that news has changed. He has decided not to hang them up yet and is now believed to be seeking a job close to his Florida home. Maryland isn't exactly close, but it is closer than Detroit. Boldin I think is a good fit for our team because he gives us that tough, veteran, possession receiver we currently lack and he is a red zone threat. He fights for contested passes which is also something our other receivers often get panned for not doing.

Sumari Rolle anyone? He was healthy but toasty.

Hard to do that with a guy that can't catch the football. It seemed like the tank emptied completely with Jacoby Jones when it did empty.

And the facts are: Was a very good return man while in Baltimore, probably had his best seasons ever. Was a decent receiver, not a great one. The playoff miracle catch was more of the deep safety forgetting his assignment and then falling down. It wasn't that Flacco launched a perfect pass, or that Jacoby blew off the LOS and beat his man. If my memory serves, Jacoby actually had to stop and wait for the pass. After 2012 he was not nearly as effective and he all but disappeared in 2014. He played for two other teams in 2015 and never caught a pass for any of them and he didn't play in 2016. Patterson has almost completely vanished as an offensive weapon. He is a kick returner only whereas Jacoby Jones was a KR & PR. Nothing confusing about those facts.

That was more a broken coverage on the defense than it was anything special Jacoby Jones did. I am not saying he was worthless, but we got that one season out of him and he was gone...and I think he's better than Patterson is at WR.

I've watched NFL Network's combine coverage and the drafts and I can't stand all of the yuk-yuk that goes on. Every once in awhile you will actually get some decent insight on a player. I watch their NFL total access which seems to think there are only 3-4 teams in the NFL and it seems they are purposely targeting the LCD (lowest common denominator) with their antics. You have to love it when an "analyst's" opinion starts with, "Dude need to get PAID!" Why do you think this player can help team X? "Yo, dude is just a baller. You get this man here and he can do everything for you." Gee thanks. Let me go drink about 10 beers so I can join in the fun and understand all the gibberish. This is how I feel most of the articles on this site are written. They are written with (my opinion) a notion that the fans don't know anything about the players, the team, or the game of football. This is why I feel the message board community is so valuable because it allows for some more intellectual conversations. As for, "Well, all the other teams are ditching their message boards..." Since when did the Ravens become followers and not leaders? Since when did we want to become just like everybody else?

A healthy Claiborne is an immediate upgrade for this team and I hope we get him on a decent contract (for the Ravens) so that more money can be spent to address other glaring needs that we might not be able to address during the draft. I like Webb as a backup and if he comes back I think that is a good move. Even with Smith and Claiborne I think the Ravens need to draft some more CB help high in the draft. It seems like these days it is only a matter of time before Smith or Claiborne gets hurt and we need some more talent in house just in case that happens. Take one high and then try to get a sleeper in the draft later. We certainly do need a pass rusher especially if we can't sign somebody to help us out at least until one of the younger guys steps up and shows they are ready. We still need some MLB help because I am not so sure Correa is the answer. It is his job to lose coming into the season though. We need more O-line help at C or RT. We could also use more help at WR...a big, tall, possession guy that can actually catch the football. Zuttah would be okay as another year stop gap, and RT we might have the answer in house. If that is Alex Lewis then we need a LG and I think we should sign Tim Lelito. Under the radar move, has been a solid run blocker and if he gets beaten out he also plays RG/RT/&C. At LE/LDT (the spot vacated by Lawrence Guy leaving) I think we've got the bodies in camp to step in. We've got a glaring hole left by the Dumervil cut and we also need to find a replacement for Suggs because he's not going to be playing for too much longer.

Even the best in the game get shut down in some games. They aren't always putting up 150 yards with 3 tds in every game. But look at the overall body of work and the numbers tell you the story about Pitta. He was consistent before and after the injury. You see what you want to see and I will see what I want to see. If he's not getting open then he's not making all those catches. The offense as a whole was ineffective and I would argue that any catch that gains you positive yards is helpful. I agree that the younger guys need to step up and claim the majority of snaps, but until they do then Pitta is not a bad option to have as a fallback plan. You know what you have with him and you can trust his hands.

You're talking about two completely different things with the kicker situation. You are talking about a guy getting nervous and cracking under pressure and that's the mental aspect of the game. It has nothing to do with whether the kicker is playing "faster" or "stronger." We drafted Boller because we actually whiffed on our chance to get who we really wanted and Billick panicked and went after a guy that had no business being drafted in the first round. Pulling up Brady is like pulling up the rare instances of a UDFA turning into a consistent pro bowler or Hall of Famer. That is an extreme outlier and not the rule. If you want to go with Brady as your example; and I accept your premise, which I don't, that just proves my case even further that this is an exception to the rule. It is not a common thing.

1. Doubt we would be able to retain all three. 2. Signing Barwin seems counterproductive to what we are trying to do at that position. 3. I'm not sure Mangold is an upgrade over Zuttah at this point. Retain all three? We don't have any of them yet. So we need to obtain before we retain. They are trying to improve at OLB. Connor Barwin is better than anyone we currently have on the roster for that position. His drop off last year was because the Eagles tried to make him a 4-3 end and move him away from his previous and very successful fun as a 3-4 OLB. This move would be hardly counterproductive. A healthy Mangold is better than Zuttah and that is the only question in the equation. How healthy is that ankle? Let's not forget that Zuttah was all sorts of banged up last year as well.

Think you should update this to let everyone know that Guy signed with the Pats for 4 years and around $20 mil.

I will miss him if this is truly the end of his Ravens career but there is a chance the Ravens will bring him back...if he's willing to take a lesser role in the defense. Some other team out there might be willing to give him a chance at a starting job, but who knows. Webby was the man at CB before all the injuries and he was looking pretty good at safety about half way through the season. If we can bring him back I will be happy.

Tim Lelito who plays swing guard, RT, and C.

And do you know why I came here? It is because ESPN closed their boards down and I left that site high and dry until I found this forum. I will do the same if they decide to still close these boards and according to the polls so far, a significant majority of responders will do the same. This site will quite literally be dead to me because the "news" isn't news I couldn't get elsewhere, the opinion articles are usually not very fulfilling, and there is no real insider information available. The video clips they have I find have very little value. Essentially what I am saying here is that the main value of this site to me is the forums. I can go elsewhere (and usually do) for my Ravens news. Doesn't that seem funny considering this is supposed to be the official site for the team?

Remember Jacoby here. One good season, then Sweet Pea.

I think everybody that is a more than a casual fan of the NFL knows that a multi year deal is not a multi year deal until the team keeps you on the roster. The money is not guaranteed and you can get cut at any time. That's why guys want as much money up front and guaranteed to them more than just number of years. Not sure where you're getting this no wear and tear thing on Waston. He's played no less than 12 games a season since his sophmore season in the NFL. He's not a "superb" blocker by any means. He's just not horrible at it. Dude is 37 and coming off of an Achilles. I'd be surprised if the Ravens keep him, but if they do I will pull for him since he's a Raven. Guys can still look good late in their careers after they lose a step. It doesn't mean they haven't. They make up for it with experience and hard work. We made Derek Mason look like a superstar when he was pretty much done. Why? Because he was our main target. The point you make about Pitta is laughable at best. He's been nothing but consistent his whole career when he's healthy. What does he do well? Catch the ball. He's got the best hands on the team. What else does he do well? Get open in zone coverage. Once again that was on full display. The reason for him getting so many balls isn't because Joe Flacco has a secret crush on him, it is because he's the only guy that knows how to get himself open. That's been Dennis Pitta his whole career and that hasn't fluctuated. We'll just have to agree to disagree about our stances on Watson and Pitta.

And what are the knocks on Kaufusi? He plays too high which means he's not getting leverage and not only does he lack upper body strength, but lower body strength. I mean I am not making this stuff up, this is coming from scouting reports from people that do this from a living. I think I will take their analysis and buy into it a bit more than a fan sitting at home and watching highlight reels. He's also showing that his "speed" as somebody defined it (which actually isn't speed) and him being a "player that plays faster and stronger on the field" does not hold up because he lacks that speed and explosion on the field that should be there based on his combine.

Okay, that's not speed, that's quickness and explosion and those are actually things that are not exactly something Kaufusi's scouting report says he's good at. You only had to be specific because I wanted you to further prove you don't know what you're talking about and you did an excellent job of it. I compared two players almost the exact same height and weight at the same position and had drastically different numbers in the strength game. Your comparison offers up two guys with almost identical numbers. Richburg obviously is the better talent but maybe that also comes down to technique and natural skills. You guys are seriously gonna give me flack for stating that J.J. Watt is a lot better of a talent than Bronson Kaufusi? Seriously? Yes, I am sure you are an amazing expert at talent evaluation and that's why you are sitting at home at your computer and not working for an NFL front office.

Actually, you do agree with me. I don't think most guys magically transform into better players once they step on the field. They are either good or not. Now, an adrenaline rush is capable of allowing people to do some amazing things, but it is short lived and a once in a life time thing. A player can't live off of an adrenaline rush. But in the rare cases where people get amped up for a game it can be a help or a hindrance. You say sometimes better and sometimes worse. I say it isn't common that a player plays better in live game action that he does anywhere else....so you're agreeing with me. If it only happens SOMETIMES and then part of those time is it also worse, then my point of it not being common remains true.