VeiledPsychosis

Just now, ravensdan said:

Wow Frederick really good player but didn't expect center so early. Figured Norman world be drafted soon. 

After ruling out QB, it was between Norman and one other defender. Figured I'd go Norman since my division has Hopkins, Jeffery, and Antonio Brown.

Thought about going QB here but there are quite a few good ones left and it's not too long before I pick again. With 3 crazy good WRs in my division it's important to get a top DB. I realize Norman is a sort of 1 year wonder at this point but he was just fantastic last year and I'm willing to gamble on him repeating even with a change of scenery.

With the 61st pick, the Livingston Loco Lemurs select...

Josh Norman, CB

Just now, ALSKAN RAVEN FAN said:

Thanks that's really good.

no problem, it's amazing what a little boredom will do

If anyone is interested:

I was super bored today and made this - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JXBnfVt91gA2uD_Q7T4XPBxTkRsfz4YQy_nLQHodR_M/edit#gid=0 - it has the draft order and all that but it also has divisions and their picks in separate pages. Also it's a spreadsheet so if you aren't sure if a guy is available or not it has the "find" function of course.

Just makes everything more organized and easier as far as the divisions go, I believe editing is set to public so if you need to make a change as far as your team goes then feel free.

Of the QBs left, though, its pretty much go for the older proven, yet inconsistent, QB or a slight gamble on a young guy. I can see how the guys left have made it this far.

My board has gotten massacred over the last few picks, now my next pick isn't so clear cut and I'm struggling to decide where I'm going to go with it. This got really hard really quick.

interesting double secondary picks

I think there are at least 2 QBs that really shouldn't be available

I really wish we could trade picks

8 minutes ago, ravensdan said:

I am shocked one player remains available with limited players like Smith and Tannehill coming off the board. To me those two guys aren't first round picks. 

There are a few I'd take over some of the QBs taken so far, but to each their own I guess. It's hard to tell where everyone is going, who knows? maybe the team built around Tyrod, or some others, will make him worth the pick

15 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

Same here.

Then again I don't pick again for 34 picks so I still need quite a bit of luck here.

Considering how the board has fallen pertaining to QBs I don't regret grabbing a defender instead so high.

Well the 12 hours we waited yesterday for that pick definitely wasn't a waste of everyone's time.

10 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

An edge defender is tasked with holding the edge, not covering lots of yardage. If that edge defender is not chasing down the cutback, but rather running down the play to the outside on his side, he's failed his job as an edge defender and there's really nothing more to be said about that. 

You are actually correct that Donald racked up more stuffs than both Miller and Mack. It was 13, 2, and 12 respectively. I'm surprised to see that, honestly, but I suppose it makes sense because Donald is an animal.

They're tasked with holding the edge, which is just about not letting the runner get outside, not about standing their ground from the start. There's always swing blockers on outside run plays, it's their job as edge defenders on run plays to force the running inside where they are. It's a success so long as the runner doesn't get outside. It's entirely unreasonable to expect any edge defender to stand their ground against swing lineman coming out to block them, to call it a failure if they aren't able to stop the run at the point of attack is just not possible on most plays if they are picked up by a blocker, by the time they get free from the blocker it will be too late to get the TFL and they are usually chasing the player down well after they've passed the LOS.

1 minute ago, allblackraven said:

If I had to choose, I'd rather pay $100 mil Donald than Miller.

I'm with you on that, I'm not arguing for Miller against Donald. Frankly I think Miller is kind of overrated, as an all around player anyway, there's no denying he can rush the passer when he feels like it.

19 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Your sentences and lack of paragraphs are honestly throwing me off here.

An edge defender has a greater impact on the run game by virtue of being an edge defender. I'd imagine most teams want to run outside because if they can get the edge, they usually only have to beat a man in the secondary for a big gain. An edge defender that can lock down the edge is going to cause more issues than a defensive tackle because it causes misdirections or runs into the arm of that defensive tackle. 

If a defensive tackle starts penetrating, a running back can just bounce the run wide. It takes extreme quickness and closing burst to really beat a run up the middle as a defensive tackle in the same way that an edge defender does.

Just by virtue of the position, edge defenders are going to have gaudier stats, stand out more, and appear more flashy. 

I'm not really sure this even matters, but an edge defender is likely to get more run stuffs than a defensive tackle every single year by virtue of the position.

Like I said: I realize that edge players will always have better stats on paper than inside defenders, we can stop going back and forth agreeing on this.

"I'd imagine most teams want to run outside because if they can get the edge, they usually only have to beat a man in the secondary for a big gain." Exactly my point, an edge defender is on an island tasked with covering lots of yardage whereas inside defenders (especially in the 4-3) only have to handle a small area between them and the next guy. And I'd  argue that the rest of that paragraph can be said about both, if the edge is locked down the runner can cut it inside (which would pad the DT's stats and lets not act as if Donald hasn't had fantastic edge defenders on that Rams defensive front, which is also an argument pertaining to his pass rush prowess, he's never had a supporting cast anywhere near as bad as Mack, in fact his supporting cast since being drafted has arguably been the best in the league...)

If a DT gets pressure then the runner can bounce it outside which would easily benefit and pad the OLB's stats but why is the same not true for DTs when edge players get immediate pressure? usually if any DT gets immediate pressure on a run play, barring a missed tackle, they are able to get the runner no problem. Only in rare cases are you dealing with a runner able to make the move quick enough in that short time period to get away by bouncing outside, in such a case you are dealing with an elite runner and it doesn't matter what position you are talking about with instant pressure.

And pertaining to that last sentence, that's not necessarily true at all, Donald had more stops than most OLBs, including Miller, not Mack but most.

14 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Actually, I'd argue that edge defenders have a distinct advantage in run defense as well. Who's more likely to get a TFL? An edge defender. Who generally finishes with a higher tackle total? An edge defender. It's the nature of the position to put up more gaudy stats from DT. 

A defensive tackle can stuff runs up the middle, but setting the edge can completely destroy a play by forcing a complete misdirection.

That's not a good way to measure run stopping ability at all, of course an edge defender is going to have more of both simply because teams run outside more plus you've got screens and OLBs have coverage duties as well, all are padding the tackles stat and the first two pad the TFL stat. You could argue that but I'd argue that that is a terrible argument. i'd counter with: who has more of an advantage? a defender that is expected to handle a couple yards at most or one that is expected to hold down 20+? the DT of course has a distinct advantage in run stopping. You follow the draft, you should know that numbers alone is not the way to evaluate anyone especially something like TFL and tackles that are so broad an include many things outside of simple run plays.

25 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I'm not really getting what you're saying, but I also mentioned hits and pressures as well as sacks. Donald had the highest pass rushing productivity grade amongst defensive tackles and had more quarterback hits than Miller. I'm mot sure with Mack, but I'd imagine it's close there as well. 

Again, if the argument is that Mack got more sacks, so he was harder to gameplan for, that's a flawed arguement.

My response wasn't making any argument for or against anyone, just explaining why someone pointed out sacks responding to your comment.

And an argument that Donald is the best out of the three based on how he compares to other DTs is a flawed argument. What I've been saying is: sure, if we're going to not focus on sacks because a DT can only do so much in that department then we have to do the same for OLBs pertaining to run stopping. Donald, at his best, will never get as many sacks as Mack, at his best, simply due to position, but the same can be said against the run, Donald can take away the middle but an edge player can never lock down 20+ yards on their own, they'll never be able to be on the same footing in the run department.

20 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

If you're really using sacks as your argument, then I don't have much more to say.

I think he only started talking about sacks because you mentioned sacks...it's kind of hard to chime into a debate on how a player is more easily taken away, out of 3 players that have all equally not been taken away, and not be pushed in completely and your input made into an argument for one side against the other.

5 minutes ago, ludy51 said:

Lol

You've gotta admit that "I'll believe it when i see it" is sort of an awkward response to the post though

8 hours ago, OriolesMagicPlease said:

Just because I would like to see more of what he can do, that doesn't mean that I think he should have a spot on the team.

That may be true with you but there are some people on here that practically act like he's the messiah

10 minutes ago, ravensdan said:

What do you mean?  Donald is not an unknown quantity here. He's a wrecking ball in the middle of any offensive game plan. Interior pressure wrecks an offensive game plan quicker than the edge and affects every type of offense. Edge guys can be taken out of the play in many different ways. And after JJ Aaron is the guy here. 

Sounds like he was talking about your comment right above that one and just quoted the other one by mistake. "I'll believe it when I see it" makes more sense talking about the QBs than your other comment. EDIT: guess not...

And to be fair, it's just as easy to take an interior dlineman out of a game compared to an edge player, screens and outside run plays spring to mind immediately. In fact I'd argue it's easier considering Edge guys deal with runs, pass rushing, and the added responsibilities in coverage as well that DTs rare deal with, if at all. If you're willing to acknowledge that interior guys can only be so effective as pass rushers then you must be able to acknowledge that an edge guy can only be so effective against the run considering they're dealing with 20+ yards on their own.

52 minutes ago, ravensdan said:

I don't think so. No defender does more singlehanded to wreck an offensive game plan than Donald outside of watt. You can take Mack it Miller out of the game. 

I have to disagree entirely on that. Watt is on a level above all 3 of Donald, Mack, and Miller, but if anything those three are on equal footing. Donald takes away the middle in the run game and can get pressure from the inside but Mack is easily one of, if not the, best at setting the edge and notched 15 sacks last year. If you aren't willing to accept Mack > Donald in wrecking game plans you have to at least give them equal ground here...

52 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Pretty sure Watt has gotten it at DT and DE, but I could be wrong. 

Mack is the only one ever to get first team all pro at two positions, Watt has gotten a 1st team and 2nd team nod before but never two first team