VeiledPsychosis

Can't go wrong with Yanda

After ruling out QB, it was between Norman and one other defender. Figured I'd go Norman since my division has Hopkins, Jeffery, and Antonio Brown.

Thought about going QB here but there are quite a few good ones left and it's not too long before I pick again. With 3 crazy good WRs in my division it's important to get a top DB. I realize Norman is a sort of 1 year wonder at this point but he was just fantastic last year and I'm willing to gamble on him repeating even with a change of scenery.

With the 61st pick, the Livingston Loco Lemurs select... Josh Norman, CB

no problem, it's amazing what a little boredom will do

If anyone is interested: I was super bored today and made this - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JXBnfVt91gA2uD_Q7T4XPBxTkRsfz4YQy_nLQHodR_M/edit#gid=0 - it has the draft order and all that but it also has divisions and their picks in separate pages. Also it's a spreadsheet so if you aren't sure if a guy is available or not it has the "find" function of course. Just makes everything more organized and easier as far as the divisions go, I believe editing is set to public so if you need to make a change as far as your team goes then feel free.

Of the QBs left, though, its pretty much go for the older proven, yet inconsistent, QB or a slight gamble on a young guy. I can see how the guys left have made it this far.

My board has gotten massacred over the last few picks, now my next pick isn't so clear cut and I'm struggling to decide where I'm going to go with it. This got really hard really quick.

interesting double secondary picks

I think there are at least 2 QBs that really shouldn't be available

I really wish we could trade picks

There are a few I'd take over some of the QBs taken so far, but to each their own I guess. It's hard to tell where everyone is going, who knows? maybe the team built around Tyrod, or some others, will make him worth the pick

Then again I don't pick again for 34 picks so I still need quite a bit of luck here.

Considering how the board has fallen pertaining to QBs I don't regret grabbing a defender instead so high.

Well the 12 hours we waited yesterday for that pick definitely wasn't a waste of everyone's time.

They're tasked with holding the edge, which is just about not letting the runner get outside, not about standing their ground from the start. There's always swing blockers on outside run plays, it's their job as edge defenders on run plays to force the running inside where they are. It's a success so long as the runner doesn't get outside. It's entirely unreasonable to expect any edge defender to stand their ground against swing lineman coming out to block them, to call it a failure if they aren't able to stop the run at the point of attack is just not possible on most plays if they are picked up by a blocker, by the time they get free from the blocker it will be too late to get the TFL and they are usually chasing the player down well after they've passed the LOS.

I'm with you on that, I'm not arguing for Miller against Donald. Frankly I think Miller is kind of overrated, as an all around player anyway, there's no denying he can rush the passer when he feels like it.

Like I said: I realize that edge players will always have better stats on paper than inside defenders, we can stop going back and forth agreeing on this. "I'd imagine most teams want to run outside because if they can get the edge, they usually only have to beat a man in the secondary for a big gain." Exactly my point, an edge defender is on an island tasked with covering lots of yardage whereas inside defenders (especially in the 4-3) only have to handle a small area between them and the next guy. And I'd argue that the rest of that paragraph can be said about both, if the edge is locked down the runner can cut it inside (which would pad the DT's stats and lets not act as if Donald hasn't had fantastic edge defenders on that Rams defensive front, which is also an argument pertaining to his pass rush prowess, he's never had a supporting cast anywhere near as bad as Mack, in fact his supporting cast since being drafted has arguably been the best in the league...) If a DT gets pressure then the runner can bounce it outside which would easily benefit and pad the OLB's stats but why is the same not true for DTs when edge players get immediate pressure? usually if any DT gets immediate pressure on a run play, barring a missed tackle, they are able to get the runner no problem. Only in rare cases are you dealing with a runner able to make the move quick enough in that short time period to get away by bouncing outside, in such a case you are dealing with an elite runner and it doesn't matter what position you are talking about with instant pressure. And pertaining to that last sentence, that's not necessarily true at all, Donald had more stops than most OLBs, including Miller, not Mack but most.

That's not a good way to measure run stopping ability at all, of course an edge defender is going to have more of both simply because teams run outside more plus you've got screens and OLBs have coverage duties as well, all are padding the tackles stat and the first two pad the TFL stat. You could argue that but I'd argue that that is a terrible argument. i'd counter with: who has more of an advantage? a defender that is expected to handle a couple yards at most or one that is expected to hold down 20+? the DT of course has a distinct advantage in run stopping. You follow the draft, you should know that numbers alone is not the way to evaluate anyone especially something like TFL and tackles that are so broad an include many things outside of simple run plays.

My response wasn't making any argument for or against anyone, just explaining why someone pointed out sacks responding to your comment. And an argument that Donald is the best out of the three based on how he compares to other DTs is a flawed argument. What I've been saying is: sure, if we're going to not focus on sacks because a DT can only do so much in that department then we have to do the same for OLBs pertaining to run stopping. Donald, at his best, will never get as many sacks as Mack, at his best, simply due to position, but the same can be said against the run, Donald can take away the middle but an edge player can never lock down 20+ yards on their own, they'll never be able to be on the same footing in the run department.

I think he only started talking about sacks because you mentioned sacks...it's kind of hard to chime into a debate on how a player is more easily taken away, out of 3 players that have all equally not been taken away, and not be pushed in completely and your input made into an argument for one side against the other.

You've gotta admit that "I'll believe it when i see it" is sort of an awkward response to the post though

That may be true with you but there are some people on here that practically act like he's the messiah

Sounds like he was talking about your comment right above that one and just quoted the other one by mistake. "I'll believe it when I see it" makes more sense talking about the QBs than your other comment. EDIT: guess not... And to be fair, it's just as easy to take an interior dlineman out of a game compared to an edge player, screens and outside run plays spring to mind immediately. In fact I'd argue it's easier considering Edge guys deal with runs, pass rushing, and the added responsibilities in coverage as well that DTs rare deal with, if at all. If you're willing to acknowledge that interior guys can only be so effective as pass rushers then you must be able to acknowledge that an edge guy can only be so effective against the run considering they're dealing with 20+ yards on their own.

I have to disagree entirely on that. Watt is on a level above all 3 of Donald, Mack, and Miller, but if anything those three are on equal footing. Donald takes away the middle in the run game and can get pressure from the inside but Mack is easily one of, if not the, best at setting the edge and notched 15 sacks last year. If you aren't willing to accept Mack > Donald in wrecking game plans you have to at least give them equal ground here...