bigcatfrank1

Ravens need to look for support in the Running Game, maybe J. Charles, D Williams, J Starks for some veteran help to begin the year...who wants a ring?
Then feel out where this running game is going when Dixon comes back.

That is great and all. However, when the offense gets 35 three and outs a game and doesn't score enough points, they will gas even the best defenses, and lose games. I don't blame Ozzie for not drafting a WR because CD and MW were long gone but I do blame him for not getting a WR in FA. There is literally nothing out there except a few old banged up guys that are not gonna help our offense. The offense was horrible with SSS last year. Let's do the math. Not gonna be a good yea, gonna be third in the division. Good job!

So Wallace at /over 1000 yds, Perriman potentially at/over 1000 yrds, then Moore, Waller, Campinaro and Co total at conservatively 600, that is about as good as any WR crew the Ravens have had= 2600 WR yards.
Add the TE position at least 800 yds ( Pitta had that many on his own)
Add the RB position at at least 800 yds - considering Woodhead easily hits 350 alone, West and Dixon can make up a measly 450-

This describes a 4200 yrd passing offense. It is pretty much an easy sum looking at the past and abilities.
Probably the only one that is suspect to future doubt is Perriman however his quiet 500 yards last year would be considered a huge step being he was 3rd on the depth chart. I just do not see him going backwards, up , up and away!

So I just do not see your prognostication. You may be ham hunting and if so, that is your prerogative, however put some numbers behind the sour apples please.

If anything I'd pick on the running game. But that is a horse of a different color.

we have absolutely nothing on offense that would strike fear into any defense until proven otherwise. players need to play hungry and step up and the off coaching staff needs to know how to utilize what they have

It could be that they just have not been shown it by the young Ravens, specifically the Sophomore class.

I agree, there is an element of the unknown that exists or to be "proven otherwise"

Perriman, Dixon, Moore are on the hot seat, maybe not so obvious Alex Lewis, Nembot, and even Keenan Renolds. All of them have seen limited playing time (exception of Dixon). This year that is going to change, could it be in the making?

Though not seen last year, the TE position could very well emerge as a sleeping giant. Woodhead in the backfield could be the X-Factor that allows the deception needed for a talented TE core to show its effectiveness. Some one has to cover the crafty RB, here presents the TE already deeper than 5-8 yards into the defensive backfield and missed in coverage, Boom! or the Slot receiver that is just one more player than is coverable in Waller/Woodhead/Moore.

Though coaching is very important, absolutely hunger for excellence within each player is critical in pushing them above the crop. Thus , the possible "fear" element as a team.

As far as a QB casting fear, as posted by some, I think that needs response by defenses around the league. I'm not sure they agree to what critical method one would describe fear. However I can tell you that from what I have read, most players and teams have tremendous respect for Joe Flacco's deep ball and passing game in general.

Would love to see Kaepernick brought in to back up Joe and push him throughout the year. Would also like to see us give Jamaal Charles a look, work him out at least. Barnidge would also make sense to gander at a la Dallas Clark role. Any updates on Watson?

The Ravens have signed the back up QB, dont think they will not sign a no.3. its a waste of time and effort. let alone that Kaepernick cant push his wifes cart around the Safeway.

I think Charles is a fine idea, the question is how affordable?

At this point I think the Ravens are pretty certain that they wont add a TE, why pass on the best TE of the year if the team felt there was a need at all?

Was really hoping Barnett or Allen, but Humphrey addresses an area we have been absolutely trash in for years now. Everyone was crying for a corner, but we sign Carr and suddenly it's no longer a need?

Taking Foster or one of the OT made no sense to me. It's unwise to use a #16 overall pick on a RT or a LB when you already have a first round pro bowl LB. There is plenty of mid round value that can start at RT/ play ilb beside Mosley.

Time will tell, but we should have the most physical and talented secondary in the league. 

You are absolutely correct- The cry for CB help was loud and clear from early December on. The Ravens have been weak at this position for years and it showed big time when Smith went down for too long, too may times last year. It pretty much lost the playoffs for the team, not that I blame on player, what was to blame was the depth ability at the position.

Humphrey was the leading CB throughout the entire pre-draft process. No one corner pushed him down or moved clearly above him. The Ravens called his name out early as a prospect, in fact so early many forgot about him and the importance of a young, fast, big, strong, first ranked "starting corner" draft choice.

And lastly the big "what if" still looms over M&T. Healthy players are critical to the Ravens success, especially one particular CB.

I like the kid, I like the Pick and I hope we like the on -field play for years to come. Congrats to Marlon Humphrey.

I know the Ravens drafted BPA, and have some of the best scouts and relationships with college programs to build their board, so I'm sure this draft class will be successful.

I do wonder what a draft that emphasized offensive playmakers a bit more may have looked like.  Assuming no trades, we could have had the following in the first 3 rounds (pretty happy with the 4th and 5th, and the 6th is a ST player at best):

1.  OJ Howard - Bigger and faster than the WR Williams, and he can block

2.  JuJu - Compares to Boldin as a receiver who can run great routes and win contested catches, and he can block

3.  Tim Williams or Chris Godwin (the latter if you really wanted to emphasize the O; though he seems a poor man's Perriman)

3.  Fabian Moreau - fill our CB need later in a very deep class 

 

Be interesting to see which set of picks will look better 3 years from now.

They could have taken any one of them instead, I think Bower is clearly BPA vs Ju Ju however JJ may have been the receiver that could help this team the most. Its just the way the board fell. Ju Ju doesnt make it to 3rd round so the Ravens don't get him.

OJ Howard sure looks like the real deal, He too could have made a huge impact. That is the move I am surprised with, I think Howard was the BPA at that time. We will see, does Humphrey start? or does he just play options and substitutions which is more of what the Ravens do with first year corners.
OJ looks to start so we should get a look right away at his play by play full game ability.

The others all look to be very good moves, so far. yep we will see in a couple of years.

2017 Draft = B-

On position and need based only
troubled positions;
No clear #1 Center
No clear third WR
No clear #1 RB games 1-4 (and even further)
No clear third ILB

Obviously Ranking the Draft is really not fair until mid-season.

Last years draft was clearly an A.

I still think Oz adds a veteran RB and WR he will be watching cap casualties very closely. For now the Ravens have much to work with and evaluate. O-line might just be ok without adding outside NFL experience.

Dixon can practice all the way up to game 1, I believe - which obviously he will do. The Running schemes will be much more important now with Woodhead on the team. He is a position specialist who will demand better play execution.

WR im not sure that the Ravens enter the season with a weak Running Game for the first 4 games. Certainly not just because of draft. So therefore I cannot see them entering the season without another seasoned NFL WR, even with all of the young talent.

Looks like to some decent young prospects, often UFA get a short look at camp in the first year, will they keep developing both in camp and on their own?

  Quote

Nico Siragusa had a dominant year in both phases of guard play in 2016. Siragusa’s 99.2 pass-blocking efficiency rating ranked No. 2 among guards in the draft class, and his run-block success rate of 93.4 percent also ranked No. 2 among guards in the class. — Jordan Plocher, @PFF_Jordan

 

 

He sounds like a guard

He sounds like a Guard, hope he can support the tackle situation. Center may be a stretch. Not all lineman can play center thats for sure.

I am not real high on moving Alex, but if he can transition to Tackle without costing the level of play he brings at Guard then hopefully its worth it. Some feel its the way to go, but weakening his positions is not a good approach.

Certainly Yanda can move to tackle he has done it before, Again i am not high on that move either. I like Yanda and Lewis as our Guards.

  33 minutes ago, jravens1313 said:

This draft has been a home run so far. It is evidence that we want to get back to dominating on Defense to win football games. Tim Williams is an elite rush specialist who walks in and replace Doom. Bowser is an every down guy with great motor and the best athleticism and versatility at the OLB position in the 2017 class. Humphrey has all the traits you want in a CB and is highly competitive. Wormley was considered a 2nd Round guy and could play DE or DT depending on the situation. Throw in Tony Jefferson, Brandon Carr. WOA have fun with that Deen Pees.

Time to continue the streak with a great 4th and 5th Round!

Yes, I really like it too. And I am the one that is still saying we need to consider Running Game, RB, as an issue.

However looking player against player there is no doubt the Ravens picked great bargains at every pick. The players were all rated higher on the board than when available, not counting 16 just because Marlon was definitely a top 20 pick. I believe he will surprise many when he hits the field, we can only hope and look forward to it.

Its about building a Championship not which player will set records. This is the Ravens philosophy, they stick to it most times and as a fan I think its a great system. Some may disagree, however look at NE, they traded even further down. Why, because they know its about building Championships not about chasing drafts.

One thing is probably most interesting is that the Ravens didn't trade down, considering how the first 15 went off the board. That just tells you OZ was not going to make a deal unless it was absolutely a "must make" and well in the Ravens favor.

Ps, O-line will help the running game. I would expect the Ravens will take a look at options at RB at least for the first 4 games. Maybe just pick up a journeyman style back from the FA pool.

With that said I sure hope our running game can perform to Ravens championship level.

  8 hours ago, mc_red23 said:

I love how the defense is going to be insane for the coming season, thank you, thank you, thank you Ozzie for picking Tim Williams!

On the other hand, I'd be raging if I was Flacco. Apart from picking up Woodhead we've done nothing to help him do his job to a good enough level.  There's no reason why we couldn't have gone Ardarius Stewart/Chris Godwin & Tim Williams (in any order) in round 3. Perriman best be the crap this season or else we could be in trouble. 

At $25m a year, Flacco needs to do more, period (see other $20+ QBs such as Brady & Rodgers).

Maybe he could be like Romo? NOT
Though Joe is much more like Brees, E. Manning and Palmer. They make just about the same with bonuses, contract sides, endorsements and such.
Why are we discussing Joe? He is the quarterback it isn't going to change, he has earned it, he is playing and yes we should all expect him to "do more".

This draft has been a home run so far. It is evidence that we want to get back to dominating on Defense to win football games. Tim Williams is an elite rush specialist who walks in and replace Doom. Bowser is an every down guy with great motor and the best athleticism and versatility at the OLB position in the 2017 class. Humphrey has all the traits you want in a CB and is highly competitive. Wormley was considered a 2nd Round guy and could play DE or DT depending on the situation. Throw in Tony Jefferson, Brandon Carr. WOA have fun with that Deen Pees.

Time to continue the streak with a great 4th and 5th Round!

Yes, I really like it too. And I am the one that is still saying we need to consider Running Game, RB, as an issue.

However looking player against player there is no doubt the Ravens picked great bargains at every pick. The players were all rated higher on the board than when available, not counting 16 just because Marlon was definitely a top 20 pick. I believe he will surprise many when he hits the field, we can only hope and look forward to it.

Its about building a Championship not which player will set records. This is the Ravens philosophy, they stick to it most times and as a fan I think its a great system. Some may disagree, however look at NE, they traded even further down. Why, because they know its about building Championships not about chasing drafts.

One thing is probably most interesting is that the Ravens didn't trade down, considering how the first 15 went off the board. That just tells you OZ was not going to make a deal unless it was absolutely a "must make" and well in the Ravens favor.

I think Steelers took JuJu to prevent Ravens getting. There no way they need another receiver. After Cooper was gone, all the other receivers would not have been a top 3 guy on our roster anyway.

The pick I question was Wormley. May have been better to grab a OT or C there, but I think he will be a good player. However, you have to think someone on the roster now will be cut

Wow, already thinking whoof cutting players? There are so many things that can happen from now until start of the season. Its a long Camp and Pre-season.

Sure the current roster is a factor ( a very small one usually except for the QB position and maybe Kicker), however the Ravens do not have "irreplacable" or Super bowl experienced players at every Defensive position. No way, in my opinion, at this point should draft choices be decided by the current roster. Players have to be chosen by who is on the board and which player can become Champions for the Ravens.

Sure its tough, and of course to look back and change scenarios, we could do that all day and night.

My question to you is, if you are right there in the pick do you move over top 5- 10 or even 3 players (especially if rounds) on your selection board to take a player just because you are afraid that other "current roster" players may not make the team ?

You could definitely tell that every pick leading up to the Ravens selection in the 3rd was just completely decimating the Ravens offensive board. When Tennessee drafted up to take the Western Kentucky receiver right in front of us, I know the Ravens had him circled for sure. But that 2nd round... we pass on JuJu and then he goes to Pittsburgh of all places... that one stung.

Yes it kind of did, but every player has to prove himself on the field. Ju Ju may have been on our (the ravens) board, of course he was, however just like Ty he will have to prove that he was the best player that the "team" could select at 48 no matter who they were up against.

The Ravens may have solidified a record breaking defense from this draft, may have not, only time will tell. However, 4 solid picks at positions where each depth line is barely 1 player deep ( again at pro bowl level, ie Suggs) and has retirement, injury prone or contract issue as starters is an imminent need to build a championship. Ozzie knows that, here again is why the Ravens are faced with tremendous 3 year decisions with practically most of their starters.

We have a tendency to look at who we missed or why players are leaving or getting huge contracts from the "what we are losing" side of things instead of the -what teams are gaining side. So yes, It can sting, the only way to combat that is to get (our) the selected player no matter what draft # he maybe to become a phenom and "play like a Raven"!

Ozzie is just getting played, no trade partners to move up to get the guy we want?

Oz doesn't get played, however the draft is a competition just like organizations and game time. Other teams, especially within our division and conference are often looking at how picks will effect every aspect. Certainly one of them is directed at player selection.

Defense went our way on the boards, looks good so far. I really like all the picks.

Now grab a few offensive gems- ones I watch for-
Orlosky and Magnuson, Davenport and Johnson left for O-line 4th/5th rounds
Isiah Ford, T Rudolf, Josh Renolds or Dupree at WR in the 5th -
(Westbrook or Josh Malone WR in the 4th if they are available)
RB- Logan or Dayes in the 6th last picks /
also the Ravens always invite undrafted free Agents to camp so watch for some undrafted gems too.

Sure Boldin is an option, but there is argument for another RB since Dixon is out for 4 games. I look for a RB WR and O-line to finish this draft out.

There also will be some late cuts available to watch for, Oz and Co. know what to do. Its all up to the players to get on the field and play like Ravens!

Ok Pass Rush and Corner, check and double check. If we can fine a few gems at O-line- WR and RB this draft looks to be shaping up pretty nicely.

Orlosky and Magnuson, Davenport and Johnson left for O-line 4th round
Isiah Ford, T Rudolf, Josh Renolds or Dupree at WR in the 5th -
(Westbrook or Josh Malone WR in the 4th)
RB- Logan or Dayes in the 6th

The Ravens needed depth and strength at CB. Just about everyone, fans and team have said that. So if you look at how the board went, the Ravens got the best CB they could when they could according to all the things that go into selecting.
Time will tell, however all the talk about #16 and 2-3-3 are just as important. The Ravens again get 3 very strong players at the respective positions. What they players can do on the field is how will be judged in the end.

I am high on every player selected, looking at each one for their position. That
is the proper way to evaluate. As most of us have agreed, never pick for position - pick for the player and ability in that position. The Ravens have dome that.

Saturday they can add depth at Offense, maybe find a Gem. But I expect veteran help at O-line and WR to be added over the next couple of months.

Bolden would play for us again, he just wont make his decision until mid-late June and that will be as long as he doesnt get any huge offers. I am kind of expecting him now.

I like every guy we picked, though I had us taking Lawson on stead of Bowser. I just honestly dont know enough about Bowser to make the determination, Obviously the Ravens do and made the proper call.

While it could have worked out different, I think the only guy who may have been BPA than Humphrey at the time was OJ Howard. Of course we can always wonder but there is no sense in that.
Hopefully Marlon shows us that he was the BPA and puts it on the field.

Meanwhile are 3 picks tomorrow to get some depth. It looks pretty clear now that the Ravens will add veteran help at O-line and WR through camp.

  3 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

  3 hours ago, designermaryland said:

They have at least 2 gaping holes on the O line with no quality starting caliber replacements. You have at least 5 adequate to above average receivers/hybrids already on the roster. Wallace, Perriman, Moore, Campanaro, Waller, Woodhead. The immediate need is O line or DB. If they draft another WR thinking this is the answer to their offensive ineptness, I would not expect any improvement in the record this year.

If they do not grab at least 1 RT early, Flacco is going to be on his back or throwing a lot of incompletions to the wasted first round picks (assuming they take a WR) all year again. I am prepared to be underwhelmed by their selection in the first round. Guessing they will do something bizarre like draft a safety or RB, when there is absolutely no need.

1. A quality RT even interior lineman certainly doesn't need to be found exclusively in round 1 or even round 2. Could very easily see somebody taken in round 3 or 4 and come in play right away and play just fine. The guy we just let walk for a boatload of cash did this exact thing.

2. I don't think anybody can honestly say that Camp, Waller, or even Moore at this point have any track record whatsoever of being above average pass catchers in the NFL. They actually have to show that on the field at some point before they can come close to being given that label.

3. We're obviously not taking a first round pick just to fill an immediate need. Almost impossible to build a contending football team that way. You pick a player who you think can be a quality player for you for a decade.

If that's a safety, so be it. Eric Weddle ain't going to be here much longer, and if you wait to draft a safety until you absolutely need one, you'll be screwed, because its not really a position you can just walk off the bus and play well in as a rookie.

We could use upgrades at every single group of positions on this team, with the exception of QB. We are NOT set at Safety, Corner, ILB, OLB, Dline, WR, TE, or RB. We could use a better player and every single one of those positions, both now and certainly in the future.

You take the best guy that's there. Fans need to stop kidding themselves thinking that we're a draft away from being a SB contender.

I agree that you don't draft for current needs (at least shouldn't make a habit out of that) but instead you draft for the future!

I also agree that we are not drafting a QB this year.

I think that there are several positions that we are stocked well at and will not be looking to fill an immediate need or a future need with in this draft.

I think QB, TE, NT, DT are some of those positions

I believe that looking ahead (not this year) that OLB is our most glaring need but I can make an argument that we are not much better off at WR, OL or CB

I think CB and S at least have their fill right now... and as a result we will probably not look to make that draft pick in the first round (unless someone at that positions just blows you away and they fall to you)

i.e. if a Jumal Adams or Peppers somehow falls to us... we may feel that they are that special of a player that you go there anyways.

The problem with this draft is... this:
Do we feel that Peppers is more special at S then say Corey Davis is at WR or more special then Reuben Foster is at ILB or McKinley, Reddick, Ramczyk, Dalvin Cook, Lattimnore, Sid Jones, etc.

So then if you feel that one is not more special at their position but several can be super stars then you have to look at your team and say I have a future star either place... which does the team need more.

I do think there is enough talent in this draft that we simply may not be very clear on the BPA model and we may need to adapt and go with BPA + need = our next pick (believing that several picks could stars for years to come and someone who we could build around! (Not a bad problem to have BTW)

Thursday can get here soon enough! (and just for the record- I still think we trade back)

I agree with most of what you said, good comments.
You know my 2 additions , it could be a trade up or trade back kind of year.
Trade up for Fournette- which I know you absolutely do not agree with
Trade down take Robinson- which you seem to leave out of your equations.

who do you think the pick would be with a trade back and how far down do you think Oz would go?

All that said; Davis is my first guess at 16, I would agree most ratings at 15 and above look to be a player that the Ravens would take except the QB's.

I think if next listed order players are Ramczyk, Ross, Humphrey, Bolles, Tim williams, Peppers and Robinson the ones left on the board the Ravens trade down. I'm not sure Foster is in the list.
man anything can happen,

  1 hour ago, billiejean said:

The other option would be to trade back but we would most likely have to give up a few early rounders to move up and get Fournette. I also don't think drafting him will automatically make our offense elite.

I believe it will for 2 fundamental reasons. First Fournette is a beast that can plough through defenses a la Peterson. And second, it'll afford Joe the opportunity to just hand the ball over to him in short yardage situations knowing a first down is a likely outcome and will help Joe realize his potential in the play action game. Joe can be deadly with Fournette in tow imo.

Could be the only player the Ravens might trade up for, we have been discussing this on other threads. Many don't agree with the trade at 7- 11. But I cannot see him dropping that ow. So could the Ravens make a play, it would be costly and probably too costly, but at 7 I would make a call and try. I'm with you, but its risky and outside the box. Jacket will tell you

Day 2 will be key. I could see us trading down, or even, right out of the first round and getting more 2nd/3rd round picks. But if we do that, it will be hard to watch some big names go in the first.

You know if the Ravens could manage one of the O-line guys, Robinson-Ramczyk- Bolles- Lamp in the 2nd without changing #47 and getting another 2 or 3, you might be on to something.

Now all 4 of the top OL guys are predicted to go in round 1 in some mocks. They all look to be starting capacity players.

Who knows the Ravens actually have many, many options. Its gonna be interesting. This could shape up to be either a trade up or trade down year! 16 just might not have the caliber of player that convinces the Ravens that value of trading might bring.

DO the Ravens have 18 top players on the big board? cause 15 of them are bound to go and the bottom 3 could be the ones left to choose from. who is that? Ramczyk, Humphry, Ross? when possibly Robinson, McCaffrey and Bolles sit below and still available. That is 5 players left with room to trade down. Interesting very interesting if it shapes up that way.

I remember last year when 3 regular members of the posts community argued and argued with me about the Ravens taking Stanley with their first pick in round 1.
And a host of anti- mid level receiver moves, the Ravens wouldn't pick up another mid aged FA -WR yet Oz pulled the trigger on Wallace quick.

yep, remember it well.

  On 4/23/2017 at 4:17 PM, bigcatfrank1 said:

A lot makes sense, my only comments would be dont you think we are in the very situation that you describe?

I appreciate the added insight about Fournette, I am only looking at tape and general bio information. He looked very strong and impressive at combine. I dont know if his receiving skills are a huge issue that he couldn't move to another level.

I guess three big things I am concerned with with the RB squad of Dixon, West and Woodhead are
1. games 1-4
2. I think that West proved he is only a 2 down back.
3. Who is the "one" that take the squad to the next level in the next few years. I don't see West and obviously Woodhead lasting long.

The Ravens have proved both in successful years and over the past 3 years that they must have a good running game. The QB and team is really built that way.

Lastly, I cannot say that the Ravens chances of a Playoff run change with Fournette, 3rd round prospect or a late added FA. However I do think that the RB position is weak especially games 1-4 and barring an injury they are putting a lot of stock in a 5'8 200lb 32 year old multi-functional non-every down Flex back in Woodhead.

We don't need a RB who can take the team to the next level... its not a position that is required to have a player like that in order to win games. We can have 3 backs getting 10 carries each a game for all I care... as long as collectively the running game is doing better than what we saw last season, where it didn't matter who we put it out there because we couldn't get anything going.

The first four games will have West as the lead runner with Woodhead as the passing down back. When Dixon gets back and gets in game shape, I'd expect to see him overtake West to the point where West likely won't play very much.

Plus once Dixon is back, he's more capable of handling 3 down work, assuming he gets better in pass protection. He's much more versatile than West is.

 

poor decision if they go the way you explain it.