bigcatfrank1

Its not a contradiction. What I am saying is that you are getting a lesser player that most likely would have gone in the mid second round if this was the 2016 NFL draft. When there is a weak class teams that need a certain position are going to use a high pick on a player that would usually be drafted much later in a more robust class. The best way to get value in the first is to draft a position that is deep. And with so many needs that the Ravens have I would highly doubt that Robinson would be atop their board at 16. There are plenty of examples of needy teams over drafting OTs in a week class and it is not pretty. Erik Flowers, Andrus Peat, Justin Pugh, DJ Fluker, Reily Reif, Derrick Sherrod, Gabe Carimi. Saying that the Ravens board is going to fall like dominios and that the first 1-10 are no brainers is just not an accurate claim. QBs will throw a wrench into your dominoes and frankly this is one of the least certain (not that any of them are certain) drafts in a while. There will be a few Pass Rushers, WRs and possibly even a DB LB or RB that will most likely be at 16 that will be higher on our board than Cam. And I will try to explain this again. We have a lot of needs. The OT class is weak. Those two factors allow the Ravens to draft a player that deserves to get drafted at 16 or even higher than 16. Reaching for a guy in these circumstances would be a mistake. I wouldn't be totally bummed out if we picked Cam because I think if the FO picked him that he was the highest rated player on their board because I don't think they would reach for him. I just think there will be others there that will be higher on board than him. But clearly I have not done as much research as they have and could very well be underestimating the FOs opinion of the guy. If we were to take him it would solidify the tackle spots for 4 years btw. Assuming Stanely performs well the next few years we have the option to keep first round picks for a fifth year. You didnt mention a single player in the draft. what a swing and miss

FRANK why do you continue to argue about things that you clearly have very little background knowledge of. ALLLLLLLL of the teams from 11 to 15 will want less than the Chargers because we are moving less spots. Assuming that the Chargers will move back for less than the teams at 11 to 15 is just not how things work. Even assuming that the Chargers would be willing to move back for less because of their circumstances (as I mentioned before) is not logical either. No team is going to be willing to give up the 7th pick for less because of the fact that they are building for the future. That just doesn't make sense. I mentioned Gates, but before I mentioned Gates I said they drafted a young TE in the very beginning of the second round last year and he put up close to 500 yards in his rookie season. They don't need any of our TEs. We would very likely have to give up 3 early round draft picks to move up there. Now clearly not all early round draft picks become starters but they have the best chance to become starters. What you are saying is that you would rather have one starter at a position that isn't a huge need rather than 3 starters. Getting a solid running back but not being able to pick up a solid OT or C would negate the RBs supposed value. It just isn't a logical move for a team with so many needs. Not to mention that RBs get hurt quite frequently in the NFL and without quality starters in other positions on the offense an injured RB could mean the end of the season because of the need to rely so heavily on the guy. I have a point of view, you obviously argue because you know everything and know all the background of what is going to happen before it happens. I never said any of what you said, especially anything about 3 starters instead of 1 starter which is an absolutely ridiculous observation. What I said was exactly what I wanted to. I am not assuming anything what I said was if Foursette was there at 7, I would make a call and I think Oz should too! He doesn't have to listen to me. Im sure he will listen to you. bwahahhahha

I'm not sure the Ravens thought Wagner was worth that kind of money. Robinson might be when he is 3 years in the league. We ware going to find out, however besides the 14 players that everyone lists ( maybe the Ravens big board) who do you say the Ravens go with at 16? Ok you want the 14 - we know the top 4 Garrett- Thomas- Fournette- Lattimore, then the next 10 who could move up and down the board a little- Hooker/ Adams / Barnett /Williams / Howard / Davis /Foster / Allen / Reddick / Humphrey ( some may put Ross above Humphrey) So if the Dominos fall and all these players are picked, Why not take Cam Robinson? over Ross- Cook - Tim Williams because if he left on the board Denver will take him at 20 in my opinion.

I'm all for them expending draft capital on the O line... but I don't know about them spending the 1st rounder - not this year. If they do, it needs to be a part of a trade back, but even then, I'd find it disappointing, because it will appear that there were true playmakers that they wanted did not fall to them. Let's just put it this way ... if Davis and/or Williams are available and we pick Robinson ... I'll certainly have to give the nod to our FO and hope they made the right move, but I'll not be able to help feeling like we shied away from getting a difference making offensive weapon and went with the safer play in an area of need. second point first- I agree that The Ravens have players listed above Robinson. The thing is they all have a high probability of getting picked before 16 including Davis and Williams. the first point- it kind of hard to name some players below 16 that look to fit the Ravens and their needs better than Robinson. I really think this is the key here, I think the Ravens will risk losing out on Robinson at pick 20. I would be happy, the draft is deep with CB, Edge, WR and LB. Especially if Cam proves to be the starting lock down deal at RT in the Pros.

We don't need another RB. We signed a passing down specialist back, and we have two guys who are more than capable of being quality RBs, though I don't find either particularly special. I wouldn't take Fournette for a plethora of reasons. For starters, he's your prototype two down RB. He's not a viable asset in the passing game, meaning you will perpetually need to employ another RB with a different skill set, thus using a second roster spot on a back to produce the value that one well-rounded RB could achieve on their own. And if that passing down back is a pure specialist (much in the way Woodhead is), you're basically committing to carrying 3 RBs at all times, which is not exactly ideal if you're in a tough spot with injured players later in the year. Most importantly, I don't really like bruising backs that actively seek contact. Everybody likes to pretend like "Beast mode" is the way to go, but those guys wear down and wear down fast, and seeking contact in the NFL is much different than seeking it in College. To me, Fournette is a one contract back. I can't give a guy like that $10M a year on a second deal when he's going to be 26-30 years old. I have no issue using a day 3 pick on a RB and seeing if they end up being a value play and outplay West, because I don't think West is anything special either. Its just brutally hard to get a quality ROI on a first round RB in this league anymore, especially when the Pro production dropoff from first round backs to like day 2 or even day 3 backs is so small. A lot makes sense, my only comments would be dont you think we are in the very situation that you describe? I appreciate the added insight about Fournette, I am only looking at tape and general bio information. He looked very strong and impressive at combine. I dont know if his receiving skills are a huge issue that he couldn't move to another level. I guess three big things I am concerned with with the RB squad of Dixon, West and Woodhead are 1. games 1-4 2. I think that West proved he is only a 2 down back. 3. Who is the "one" that take the squad to the next level in the next few years. I don't see West and obviously Woodhead lasting long. The Ravens have proved both in successful years and over the past 3 years that they must have a good running game. The QB and team is really built that way. Lastly, I cannot say that the Ravens chances of a Playoff run change with Fournette, 3rd round prospect or a late added FA. However I do think that the RB position is weak especially games 1-4 and barring an injury they are putting a lot of stock in a 5'8 200lb 32 year old multi-functional non-every down Flex back in Woodhead.

I'd prefer taking Christian McCaffrey and retaining our draft picks. We could use everything Mac brings to the table: RB, WR, PR/KR. Its an option, I wonder how much different each player will be for their prospective teams coming. There is always a risk, I just dont know if using the Ravens BPA rating that McCaffery would top Robinson or some of the other close choices. I wouldn't be discouraged with McCaffery, he could learn from one of the best who is similar to his style, Woodhead. I do think RB and RT are the 2 most important starting positions that the Ravens can focus on for the immediate situation looking at game 1. Things will change after the draft and as the 90 man fills, Just my opinion.

Just curious: do you know what pick package Ozzie should give up to trade up to, let's say #7? Well lets look at it from a different perspective, At #7 The Chargers are most probably looking for Safety or WR help. If they think that they can move down and still get a player that is on their board, then they may be motivated by additional picks this year and next. Sure the question is would Fournette be worth the sacrifice of lets say one of the extra #3's this year and a #2 next year /or even a throw in a player on the roster maybe a TE ( we have plenty) This is not out of the question. Its all about the deal. The Ravens, inside camp, if potentially make the play-offs especially deep, will not have very favorable picks next year. This could be the move of the next 2 years. Is Fournette the real deal? I say The Las Vegas Chargers for a reason, this team is in a very trepidatious time. The LV Chargers could be looking at 3 years from now, they know they are most probably not facing a potential "win it all" situation this year. This then could have major impact on a trade deal for a team such as the Ravens at 16, who would be very motivated if Fournette were to fall past #6. This is the primary reason, I say at #7, that OZ and the FO to look at certain scenarios. This happens all the time, sure a deal is not made when a team has to give up more than they are willing duh, what I am saying is would the Ravens look at this? I think I would, even make a call if I were them. Frank the Chargers are moving to Los Angelos. And I dont think any of your arguments used to legitimize your thought that the Ravens will consider trading spots with the Chargers are valid. I think it would be a good move for the Chargers to trade back. They could stack up more picks while potentially still being able to take the best OT in the draft. The fact that they are in a building year isn't going to make them lower the price for that pick. They will be asking for at least 2 early rounders (most likely more). If the Ravens were a RB away from winning the superbowl the trade up might make sense but giving up early round picks with all of the holes that we have just isn't logical at this point and I can assure you that Ozzy isn't going to give them a ring because he knows the price is too steep. Throwing in a TE wouldn't sweeten the deal much. They drafted a TE last year at 35 (he almost hit the 500 yrd mark) and already have Antonio Gates. If Fournette falls out of the top 10 the FO would certainly consider moving up but with the position we are in any early draft pick that we would have to give up is akin to selling the farm. Agh, my bad. I stand corrected LA Chargers. Its the Raiders moving to LV. 1.Thanks for agreeing with me, without validating my arguments, that the Chargers may be motivated to move back which means they would trade with a team to move up. ( ie the Ravens) 2 early rounders- I guess you just couldn't bring yourself to saying they wont trade without a #1. So IF ( yes big IF) the Ravens were to go deep in the playoffs this year #1 next year isn't a very good position and maybe the best time to make a deal is now. 3 The Ravens just like all NFL teams will start with 52, they wont have holes they just will have weaknesses, sounds like you have decided which ones you are willing to live with. 4. I dont know what Oz will do, I wont assure you of anything other than what I might do and i would call them at #7 for Fournette. 5. Gates, my point exactly, Ravens have 4 young TE's. 6. So you say 11-15, tell me which team would want less than the LA chargers? 7. I said a couple of chickens for a rooster dude, not the farm, never said that

Well you can get #1 RBs without using a first round pick. There's plenty of them in the league right now. So we have the ability to get a #1 RB any year that we want to. so if that is true where is the #1 RB? BTW Jacket we have had this discussion before. I know you have good knowledge and some ( even I ) can appreciate it. But I try not to make points without using specific Ravens players and potential players as examples or topics. While prognosticating might not be your favorite thing, you tend to dance around actual examples of players when you contradict or comment. My point is specifically about the #1 RB in the draft Fournette. You can plain disagree that he is worth it and that is fine, or you can give some decent points about the player and why. You could point out a couple of running backs later in the draft that, you think, may be better "starting" running backs. You could say the Ravens dont need a running back so they will not go up and get the #1. But to generalize is quite snipey.

Its way to early to take him at 16. Maybe if we traded back but this is an extremely week class which means that OL needy teams are going to draft those top 2 guys earlier than they probably should. you contradicted yourself, I agree that a trade back is probably an option and still get Robinson. However if your point is true that because of a week class teams will draft earlier, then why wouldn't the Ravens take Robinson at 16. I just don't get it , all this talk about the bottom 20 are very, very close and then people want to argue that its too early to take one of them. Some do not think he sits above Ramczyk but I think he fits the Ravens better. Maybe the Ravens do too. Simple facts, the Ravens can really use a top, starting caliber RT. A young counter side to Stanley could solidify this line for 3 years. Yanda and Lewis on the inside leaving the Center position TBD in house or maybe even later in the draft. I will not be surprised if the Ravens take Cam at 16, again as I said if the Ravens board falls like dominos and it probably will. 1-10 are practically no brainers, we all have talked for months about them.

Well you can get #1 RBs without using a first round pick. There's plenty of them in the league right now. So we have the ability to get a #1 RB any year that we want to. so if that is true where is the #1 RB?

wow, with that kind of tape why wait until the 6th round? Don't you think others are looking at this kid? nice find CW

Robinson may just come off the board at 16

In my opinion The Ravens have one of the best DL in the NFL, no way is that an immediate need. OLB, DB and MLB are not critical any longer. The Ravens have depth and talent. My biggest feeling is they do need immediate help at RB, at least for the first 4 games. Yes ORT , Center and WR all are questions I definitely see a draft at each of those positions. As well the others as you mention, but no way the Ravens get 7 starters from a draft. I hope we get 2 and 3 would be great. my dream list- alternate reality -sure a trade up would be imminent! rounds-in relative position- 1-Fournette 2- Cam Robinson 3- Ju Ju Smith 4- Carl orTeez Tabor 5- Ethan Pocic 6-...CB/LB hopefully (at 4) give up one of the #3's for the trade up- and settle for 6 picks to get Fournette. back to reality- more possible 1-Robinson LT or Williams WR 2- Lawson Edge or Tre White CB 3- Teez Tabor CB or Ju Ju Smith WR 3- Dede Westbrook WR or Carl Tankersly CB 4- Ethan Pocic C/G or Pat Elflein C/G 5 and 6 O line/D line & LB

WIth all I have said, my gut is Cam Robinson at #16.The board falls against the Ravens with the top WR and Rush options.

Just curious: do you know what pick package Ozzie should give up to trade up to, let's say #7? Well lets look at it from a different perspective, At #7 The Chargers are most probably looking for Safety or WR help. If they think that they can move down and still get a player that is on their board, then they may be motivated by additional picks this year and next. Sure the question is would Fournette be worth the sacrifice of lets say one of the extra #3's this year and a #2 next year /or even a throw in a player on the roster maybe a TE ( we have plenty) This is not out of the question. Its all about the deal. The Ravens, inside camp, if potentially make the play-offs especially deep, will not have very favorable picks next year. This could be the move of the next 2 years. Is Fournette the real deal? I say The Las Vegas Chargers for a reason, this team is in a very trepidatious time. The LV Chargers could be looking at 3 years from now, they know they are most probably not facing a potential "win it all" situation this year. This then could have major impact on a trade deal for a team such as the Ravens at 16, who would be very motivated if Fournette were to fall past #6. This is the primary reason, I say at #7, that OZ and the FO to look at certain scenarios. This happens all the time, sure a deal is not made when a team has to give up more than they are willing duh, what I am saying is would the Ravens look at this? I think I would, even make a call if I were them.

To move up 9 spots in the first would take a king's ransom. Especially moving into the top 10. Also considering that we only have 7 picks this draft, there's no way in hell Ozzie could afford to make that type of trade. It really comes down to would the teams at 7- 12 move down. OZ can make any deal he wants, give up the farm no, but give up chickens for a rooster maybe.

In theory, a 2 and a 3. Realistically, probably a 2018 first rounder. I dont know how the front office actually feels about Fournette. I can tell you that from a play-by-play fan, I see a need for a top tier RB on the Ravens. I am not giving up on West and Dixon, I just have not seen West make his jump to #1. Dixon is young and he had tremendous potential, is he the #1? Obviously, though an incredible veteran, Woodhead is a band-aid and will not be around much longer. WIll the Ravens have a shot at drafting a #1 RB in the next 2 years?

Just curious: do you know what pick package Ozzie should give up to trade up to, let's say #7? Well lets look at it from a different perspective, At #7 The Chargers are most probably looking for Safety or WR help. If they think that they can move down and still get a player that is on their board, then they may be motivated by additional picks this year and next. Sure the question is would Fournette be worth the sacrifice of lets say one of the extra #3's this year and a #2 next year /or even a throw in a player on the roster maybe a TE ( we have plenty) This is not out of the question. Its all about the deal. The Ravens, inside camp, if potentially make the play-offs especially deep, will not have very favorable picks next year. This could be the move of the next 2 years. Is Fournette the real deal?

9 games looks very safe, 10 probable, 11 possible, 12 means the Ravens have done all the right things. So I wonder of that chance. Interesting enough most teams that have made major changes to improve secondary, improved running game, while keeping a pro-bowl QB and avoided major in-house staff changes...have done quite well on the re-bound ie- 1980 Steelers, 1988 Redskins, 1990 49rs, 1996 Packers, 2006 Colts 2015 Broncos, , all won Super bowls with aging QB and improved comeback secondary's- Others that did well in playoffs 1992 Dolphins, 2013 Saints. Most of these teams focused on two things secondary and running game. Sound like something familiar?

Those first 4 games are scary with just 2 Running backs, both who have had their ups and downs in the NFL. The Ravens would be smart to consider RB as a priority at sometime before the pre-season starts so that they can get some looks at the backfield. Can Dixon play in pre-season?

Carr, Bradford and the entire Colts team will not play well against a much improved Ravens secondary. Thats said, there is a big difference between 9-7 and 12-4. But if I were a prognosticator I would go Ravens to make the playoffs.

If Fournette makes past 6 the Ravens might move up !

wow you should be drafting for the Steelers!

This is why OJ Howard would start above Pitta if drafted by the Ravens.

Williams at 16 and McCafery at 47 are great picks. But it doesn't mean either one of them will start. Competition is high and the NFL level is yet to be seen. Same with Davis and Cook but even less chance. O line- Cam Robinson probably could start, maybe Bolles, Ramzcke Lamp, Elflein or Pocic [ profanity deleted] 50% players. LB/OLB/Edge- a decent pick, healthy camp and an extremely high level of play in preseason may get a starter out of Barnett, Harris, Foster or Rddick. OJ Howard probably would start over Pitta or any of the others left. But a lot of cutting would go down. So if we are looking straight at starters- biggest chance Robinson OT or OJ Howard TE/Slot WR at 16 - look to me to be the highest chance Game 1 starters for the Ravens if picked. Ravens might be able to trade down and still get Robinson. Howard is the longest shot- not very probable. I can see a Robinson- McCafery combo possibility. Lawson and Wormley stand out in the late 2nd early 3rd- if an extra pick can be worked out. I like the Centers either Pocic or Elfein in the 3 and Ju Ju Smith as a strong late 3 or 4. maybe- Robinson McCafery Lawson Elflein Ju Ju Smith all would be good pick ups somewhere in the top 5 for the Ravens