Ravens2343

and you base this on what?

 

have you considered givens might be pretty limited in what he can do and he might not be good at doing the things aiken and brown are doing?

 

to simplify things.

givens is a speed receiver while aiken is more of a possession type of receiver.

 

both guys are good at running different routes.

 

there is really no point in having them do things that dont fit their strengths, also aiken is a better run blocker which is why he plays more snaps.

I base it on the fact that Brown and Aiken have not made plays when given the chances.  Brown is absolutely a non factor this year and should be benched to give way to guys like Givens, Ross and Butler.  Aiken has made a few plays this year so I wont be as harsh on him, but he had 1 catch last night for 6 yards! How many times this season has he finished games with only a catch or two and hardly any yards.  He is suppose to be our #2 guy, so why not give Givens a shot or Butler?  Givens may be more of a deep threat, but while in St Louis he showed he can run more routes then just deep go routes. 

At 1-6 there is really no reason to continually trot the same guys out there and expect different results.  Trying new things and putting guys in different spots is what this season should be all about. 

I don't think he's lost all trust in him, Flacco threw to him at least 4 times last night. 

Flacco just throws to whoever is out there and open, but I cannot believe he has any real faith or trust in Brown to make a play.  The bigger problem is why Trestman continually trots Brown out there in 3-wide sets.  Givens should be taking the #2 spot and bump Kamar down to #3 IMO

I've supported and defended Marlon since last year and I can no longer do it.  I truly thought he had it in him to take his game to another level.  Man I was wrong.  

I agree, I really thought he would turn into a solid #3 receiver for us.  I don't know what is different about him since 2013 but he just doesn't look the same.  I think Flacco has lost all trust in him and it is time to move on and let Jeremy Butler take his spot.  Brown is a RFA this offseason and he may be one of the few RFA's we never have tendered.

Draft Ramsey or Hargreaves after trading back a couple spots if we land the #1 pick.

Extend Flacco and try and sign Tucker long term

Ty to re-sign Osemele and Givens

Cut Kendrick Lewis, Webb (only if we draft Hargreaves or sign a F/A), Canty and Daryl Smith

Sign Sean Spence (ILB), Tashaun Gipson or a potential cut corner like Keenan Lewis based on who we draft and Vincent Jackson when he is cut

Draft:

#1 Ramsey FS

#2 Ogbah OLB

#3 Demarcus Robinson WR

#4 OL

if you have seen enough of Marlon brown,,, 

  I have to ask what about Eugene Monroe,,,,,,

I have seen enough of both guys TBH.  Monroe is going to be hard to move but the Ravens should evaluate their situation with him this offseason.  Monroe plays well when he is healthy, but he has not be healthy the past 2 seasons.  I think we should move on from him and try and find a cheaper replacement either in F/A or the draft.  Marlon Brown should be cut during the bye week, he offers nothing to this team and only takes reps from guys that should get more of them like Waller, Butler, Givens and Ross.  Time for both guys to pack their bags, unfortunately it will be harder to move on from Monroe

I honestly didn't think we looked all that bad last night.  The guys were playing hard.  The offense was having little problems moving the ball (when Brown wasn't dropping them); who actually caught one or two anyway...  Even the defense looked like it was playing with heart last night...  and against the Cardinals.  Everyone was laughing pregame and expected to get a blowout.    I actually was glad we  made it a game.

 

We need to use Givens more.  I don't understand that one.

Givens torched Mathieu that should have been about a 35-yard touchdown but Joe under threw him.  I think Givens should be the #2 receiver behind SSS.  He has starting experience and has shown the ability to get open, Ross is another example of that too.  I like Trestman's playcalling for the most part last night, but he had a few bonehead play calls like most games.  Butler needs to take Brown's spot for next weeks game, Brown should be cut during the bye week.

The defense played quite well for the most part, Ross fumbling that punt put them in a bad spot.  In the first quarter Palmer went to John Brown 2 or 3 straight throws for first downs while Jimmy was playing 8-10 yards off and I thought it was going to be another long game.  Thankfully Jimmy was pressing Brown and Floyd throughout the night and made it difficult for them.  Webb played well and really closed well on a few throws. 

As a up and coming Pees-hater, I thought he called an outstanding game last night.

I understand we went up against a supremely talented offense and all, but we just didn't play well enough, and made too many mistakes.

Pees did a good job, and we FINALLY showed some heart on defense. We just weren't good enough. The refs did us no favors either

Which is the problem I have because Pees should be let go at some point, whether during the bye week or in the offseason but with games like last night Harbaugh will consider keeping him.  The defense played quite well considering who we had in there, Ross fumbling that punt put them in a terrible spot.  We were actually pretty good at stopping them on 3rd down, especially in the first half.  I am still in favor of getting rid of Pees though

calling it now, nkemdiche will overtake jj watt as the most dominant 3-4DE and he will redefine the position, he will become the prototype of "we need this player to begin building our 3-4 defense", the 3-4 will be about the freak DE/DT/edge hybrid rather than the OLB and NT. the "next robert nkemdiche" is what every 3-4 defense will be clamoring for. 

 

if we draft him though, i wanna commit to the front seven, draft an OLB as well, because taking a generational talent like him without having a future OLB to grow with him will be an insult to such a talent.

Nkemdiche in the firs then maybe someone like Emmanuel Ogbah or Shaq Lawson in the second round would be quite the pairing for our defense. 

I think Guy is safe and worth the price tag. He's one of few finding ways to get pressure on the QB. He should be back as a quality reserve.

I agree I think its highly unlikely we part with Guy.  If anything I think we could extend him for a couple more years.  With Canty almost certainly going to be cut this offseason, Guy is a very good rotational lineman that can play all 3 spots for us.

I think Zuttah is safe unless we land a good prospect in the draft.

Levine is most likely out of here

I think we hold onto Matt Elam for one more year, he looked better this offseason

I love this dude.

@jeffzrebiecsun: Steve Smith Sr. said if the Ravens traded him today he would quit. "I like to finish what I started."

He is an awesome player and dude, just wish we could have him for a few more seasons in Baltimore

Well, it depends on if the Bears want to keep him first and foremost, which they probably do. If that's the case, he likely never hits the market.

 

Also, keep in mind that cutting guys like Webb and Pitta create significant dead money, and cutting basically anybody creates dead money.

 

Cutting Webb and Pitta alone, pre-June 1, creates $12.6M in dead money from those two players alone. Sure, you could cut post-June 1, but all you're doing is kicking the can down the road. I doubt the FO is interested in carrying an over $4M dead money cap hit to 2017 for a guy like PItta who basically hadn't played football in 2.5 years by that point. Besides, if he retires, I don't believe the Ravens have that option anyway.

 

We probably won't have as much dead money as we do this season (nearly $22M), but I'd still guarantee we will be north of $10M in dead money when its all said and done, and probably closer to $15M. Cutting those two guys alone will probably make $20M a realistic number.

 

If you check out B-more Ravor's report on the Salary cap thread, when you factor in current contracts and add in tenders, draft picks, adjustments, etc., we're basically starting with projected slightly negative cap space.

 

So the only cap space we create will likely be based on the cuts/retirements/extensions we give. No idea how much the Flacco extension (if it even happens) will create, but my guess would be around $8-10M, and through cuts you might be able to free up another $5-10M or so. Extend a couple players, and you're probably looking at $10M to play with, give or take a bit.

 

That's not much.

I really hope the FO addresses Pitta and Webb this offseason.  If Pitta is able to come back and play effectively then I think we have to renegotiate his contract and lower that cap hit and dead money, possibly by adding in performance bonuses that he can reach while we give him upfront money for "security".  Webb could be extended out for a lot less money then he is making now and it would lessen the burden of him going forward.  I doubt he gets cut this offseason unless he tanks the rest of the year, I would not be opposed to a 2-3 extension that pushes his big cap hit and dollars out a few more years and we keep him around for veteran depth and to help whatever young guys we bring in.  Just some thoughts but like you said I doubt we keep pilling up dead money, especially after Rice and Ngata are finally coming off the books

Is there any realistic way that the Ravens can sign Alshon in the offseason? It just seems like the perfect fit. With SSS retiring, we desperately need more playmakers on offense and I'm assuming that Trestman stays so it seems ideal for him to recruit Alshon. Not only that, but we don't have to worry for a big time recieving threat for quite some time since he's only 25. I don't trust Ozzie at all in drafting a superstar WR. Flacco has shown that he's the man when he has a competent supporting cast. Imagine if he had Alshon, Breshad, Maxx, Gillmore, Boyle, Givens, etc, and what if we could even get someone like Hankerson for cheap? No more journeymen. No more tall WR's that play soft and have butterfingers. GET THE MAN SOME WEAPONS!

I think it is highly unlikely we could afford to sign Jeffery.  The Bears have a substantial amount of cap space compared to us and we will use most of our up resigning a few players and our draft pool.  We could definitely afford someone like Vincent Jackson or Pierre Garcon if they were to be cut, maybe even someone like Marvin Jones, Mohammed Sanu or Rueben Randle.  I think we will use one or two of our many picks to bring in some explosive guys and hope we can sign a veteran cut like Jackson or Garcon

That's an awesome idea if you want to enjoy top 10 picks with no chance to win for the next ten years.

Yeah I just don't get what some people are thinking.  We were a healthy secondary away from a potential super bowl last year and now this year injuries, poor coaching and an absolute brutal schedule has landed us in unchartered waters and people want to jump ship.  I agree that if we get rid of Flacco we will be picking in the top 10 for a LONG time, look how long it took us to find a guy like Flacco.

I know everyone loves Flacco and he played well for us in his time here... just think about it since his big contract... He has done what... thrown a pic in the final drive in the afc championship last year... missed the playoffs after we lost Boldin... will miss the playoffs this year... (lets be honest with or withou weapons Flacco has not looked good)has looked awful. When he played on his rookie contract we had a more rounded team so his mistakes or flaws were either hidden by a tough defense or an remarkable play by former weapons. Luck has been on his side and my theory is his luck is running thin... the back footed throw and pray aren't working anymore and throw it deep and get a pass interference call is gone without torrey... my point is why extend Flacco out... and pay extend a quarterback who is on the back end of his career when we can rebuild a balanced team. This team has many holes and just given Flacco one wr or rb or 1 more weapon is not going to stop him from staring at that one wr and throwing into double coverage... just saying.

It's time to move on... He may be the best qb that's ever been as a raven but he really hasn't had much to contend against... whose to say we won't find a gem somewhere.

Lets assume that Flacco agrees to an extension this offseason that lowers his cap hit and puts him back in the range of 8-12 QB money, then he is absolutely worth it.  Last year he threw that pick in the AFCG figuring Torrey would fight for it, it didn't happen and it looks bad but he also made throws in that game few QB's could make.  Our defense let him down in that game and has let him down in numerous games this year, like Cleveland. 

I get that people think his contract is the reason we lost players, but in reality it was not the biggest reason why.  We will be able to give him more weapons this year and should be able to build the defense back up to being a top 10 unit, especially with a change at D-coordinator. 

Flacco is undoubtedly a top 12 QB in this league and is only 30 years old, he has atleast 5 more years of his prime left considering he does not take a beating.  If you are all for getting rid of guys who have a big cap hit and are not living up to their contract then start with guys like Webb, Monroe and Pitta.  Perriman, Gilmore, Forsett, Williams and hopefully another draft pick or two at WR (we have 10-12 picks this year) and a veteran free agent will be enough to get Flacco back on track.  Couple all of that with a defensive laden draft and we should be on our way back to the top

dont think he has the range to do that.

I agree I do not think Hill would be a good FS for us.  He is entrenched as our strong safety "thumper" similar to what Chancellor is for the Hawks.  No way we trade for Chancellor, we tend to keep our picks and bring in young, cheaper talent. 

In the offseason trade Flacco to a cap friendly team or cut him if the dead money is not to much and cut Pitta. It's time to reboot. Rebuild the defense to a hard nosed team and look for a good journeyman qb to work with until we draft a new qb...

That's right I said let Flacco go... we don't have the money to give him lots of weapons and expect him and the offense to carry the team... he fizzles out too much and his clutch ability has diminished. It's time to regroup... the run was great but we need to move on sometime why not now and retool for another big run.

We will have a lot of picks... and possibly good picks... let's use them wisely and get young playmakers and sprinkle in some Nasty guys like keeping Suggs around.

I cannot believe people even waste their time thinking of Flacco not being a Raven next year.  This organization and city loves Flacco and what he has done, obviously not everyone agrees but there are not much better options out there.  Flacco will be extended and probably spend quite a few more years here, so I would probably get used to it.  We will give him weapons this offseason on top of Gilmore, Williams and Perriman.  Flacco is the one player we cannot live without, if we went and restarted it could be years until we sniff the playoffs again

im not too big on thomas and when durals 40 time shows up he will finally get the recognition he deserves, hes my sleeper wr this year and i think hes gonna fly up boards into the 2nd. boyd is almost a lock to go first round, maybe even top 10. 

I think Boyd's combine will hurt his stock a little bit.  He is not fast or very quick, although he is an exceptional route runner with great hands.  I could see others flying up the board like Thomas and Coleman.  We will see what happens come the combine but so many guys are going to move around significantly until then. 

yea 4-3 guys convert quite often, 3-4 defense really isnt very popular in college. i would love to get ramsey in the first and ogbah in the 2nd, i think "fit" and needwise thats the best scenario, but in terms of real BPA in positions of need, i like bosa or an LT in the first, and the top remaining cb in the 2nd if its sutton or white, or the top remaining wr whether its travin dural or mike williams.

Ramsey and Ogbah as our top 2 picks would probably net us 2 immediate impact players and one of our best drafts in quite some time.  Do you think Dural will go that high?  I think we could get Boyd or Thomas at the top of the second round.  I would be in favor of going defense with our first 2 picks then getting someone like Addison, Cooper or Wilson in round 3.  Bosa then Boyd would be great.  Ramsey then Ogbah would be equally as great.

i also love ogbah and he very well could actually in range of our 2nd round pick, he isnt flying up anyones boards and im not sure his combine will do much for him, but he is a very well rounded OLB and a perfect fit, 

 

as for bosa playing a full role, hes obviously gonna have his struggles as a rookie, but i dont think youre giving him enough credit, the man is gifted, all his reach alone will help him to play in space, his pursuit and shedding is out of this world, and he is as sure a tackler as there is, and he has great footwork and agility for a man his size, i see him being just fine in that department a few years down the road, hes just a straight up football player and i think he can handle whatever we throw at him, and im sure sizzle taking him under his wing would do wonders for him transitioning to complete OLB. if upshaw can spend his first 3 years as a solid coverage OLB, bosa should be well above "solid"

Ogbah I think would be the better "fit" but Bosa would be the better overall player for us.  If we could get Ogbah at the top of the 2nd then that would be a perfect scenario for us.  I have watched atleast 75% of Ohio States games and agree with everything you said, I just get nervous moving 4-3 guys to stand up OLB's in our scheme.  I believe Suggs was a 4-3 guy at ASU so it gives me hope Bosa could do the same.  Bosa is #1 on my board and I doubt that changes before May so I would absolutely love the pick, I wouldn't even be upset if we got Bosa then double dipped at OLB in the 3-4 rounds with someone like Shaq Lawson or Fields (if he checks out).  It would be awesome to have Urban and Bosa doing stunts and rushing together on the same side with their athleticism and length, what a front 7 we would have with Bosa and possibly Devonte Fields thrown in (dreaming I know).

Pitta would only save a measly 600K. $6.5 mil in dead money in 2016.

Not if we release him with a post-June 1st designation.  That would only push 2.2 million in dead money to 2016 and 4.4 into 2017 and give us 5 million in cap savings

bosa would almost certainly be an OLB in our scheme, he doesnt strike me as a pure pass rusher, his size and technique and well rounded athleticism are pretty much premium level, good luck finding a better combination of the 3 lol, he does strike me as someone who could absolutely learn to play sizzles role, but much more physically dominant, if he has it between the ears hes the kind of guy who takes the torch and surpasses the original, like a favre/rodgers thing. it may be a long shot to say all that but bosa is going to be a dominant player.

I worry about him playing in space and dropping into coverage.  Suggs does so much for our defense that I am weary of who we will get to replace him.  I would love if we were to land Bosa, that would allow us to keep Dumervil and Suggs fresh with him and Smith each playing a big role as well.  I also really like Emmanuel Ogbah in that role as well, not as well rounded as Bosa but looks like he could be a dominant OLB for us if we were to trade back

is butler on the PS?

Yes he is

Trade for or sign Alfred Morris...skins just don't know when they have a baller EVER! this guy can definitely bring back our old bruising style offense. He's only what 27??

Morris is going to be a free agent this year, we could just sign him.  I think we go running back in the draft to get younger and cheaper

bosa/ramsey/nkemdiche ill agree to an extent, but hargreaves will not be higher on ozzies board than stanley and tunsil. and the difference between a solid LT and an elite one is astronomical, especially the long term effects. when flacco goes 3 years with tunsil or stanley keeping his backside squeaky clean, he will be a whole new qb as he continuously builds confidence in his protection. the long term effects of that make a bigger difference than any playmaker we can find. the only guys im gonna place over the LTs are bosa and possibly ramsey.

I respect your opinion, I guess we both just have varying opinions on prospects.  If Tunsil or Stanley have a high percentage chance to turn out like Tyrone Smith or Trent Williams, then I would be all for taking them.  They could also turn out like Fisher and Joeckel who both have vastly underperformed thus far.  I trust Ozzie to make the best call, but even with a top 5 pick and Bosa, Ramsey and Nkemdiche gone, we could be looking at a trade back.  I know you love Ramsey (we have debated before about him) but I love Hargreaves and think he has the potential to be the next Darrell Revis.  Whatever the FO decides I will support 100%, but our defense is in dire need of playmakers immediately.

The other question is, if we take Bosa, do we use him as an OLB or DE in our scheme?  I think he could take over on the right side and become a dominant pass rusher, but I don't think it necessarily fills are need to replace Suggs production/job

its easy to find interior linemen and RTs in rounds 3-5, if youre searching for a franchise LT in those rounds youre probably gonna come up short. pitta and boldin were safety blankets, not some big time playmakers, they made themselves available, our playmakers in that run were unskilled, unsure handed, straight line burners. my point is, if maxx williams, crockett gillmore, and breshad perriman are all who we think they are, then we wont need to draft an offensive playmaker top 5, but we will never know how good they are if flacco has james hurst blocking his backside because monroe is hurt. yeah another WR would be nice, but boyd and treadwell are not top 5 guys, i like them both but they are mid first talents who will rise because of average talent at the top end. and i also think the value of a 2nd shutdown cb is overrated, once jimmy fully recovers from his lisfranc, then our biggest need is either at pass rush or FS, where bosa or nkemdiche would provide immediate dominance, and ramsey would tie together the whole secondary with a presence that scares opposing qb's, also, cb's come a dime a dozen, while quality FS play is almost nonexistent, getting a FS of the earl thomas caliber will do more for a defense than getting another brent grimes/chris harris, and i believe those are comparable measuring sticks for ramsey and Hargreaves

I agree that a franchise LT will probably not be found in rounds 3-5, but do we need an absolute stud LT in order to win a super bowl and I think the answer is No.  Coming into this year I put a lot of confidence into certain guys to step up and become better players and it just didn't happen, therefore, in my projections/opinions I am leaving as little up to chance as possible.  Williams, Gilmore and Perriman may never become more then what they are now, so what then?  With Monroe and Hurst occasionally filling in we were able to win a playoff game and put 31 points up on the road in another game.  I am more in favor of fixing our defense and getting younger on that side of the ball because in one offseason we could lose Canty, Suggs, Webb and Daryl Smith who are all 30+ and are our defensive veterans.  Monroe was hardly ever injured in Jacksonville and when he has been healthy this year he has played very well.  I agree a dominant LT would be great, but it is a luxury at this point and I am not a fan of taking luxury picks this year.  We need guys who are going to contribute right away and fill areas of absolute need like CB, Pass Rusher, FS and Wide Receiver.  Bosa, Ramsey, Hargreaves and Nkemdiche should be top 4 on our board if I am Ozzie right now 

monroe is above average, but not great, and is inconsistent and misses alot of playing time, and our OL last year was coached by gary kubiak and juan castillo, that is a straight up dream team. the value of an elite LT over an decent but inconsistent cannot be understated, having a LT that the qb knows he can drop back and will always have his backside protected is a huge advantage, flacco played the best ball of his career when bryan mckinnie was playing absolutely lights out in the SB run, and its no coincidence that in 2013 b-mac fell off and monroe struggled to get acclimated and flacco played his worst season since his rookie year. an elite LT changes how a qb does everything, he probably even sleeps better at night knowing he has an elite LT lol. i see what ur saying, but our secondary woes also has a lot to do with coordinating, kendrick lewis is the biggest liability on the team right now, and he didnt get that horrible overnight, he was solid in houston, with a DC who didnt put too much weight on his shoulders and a good pass rush. i dont know about nkemdiche, but i have no doubts that bosa would do more for us than either db would, and i LOVE ramsey.

As much as I agree about the impact a dominant LT has, Joe's superb super bowl run and bad 2013 could be correlated with his offensive weapons as well.  2012 he had Boldin, Rice, Torrey and Pitta all playing at a high level with Jones making huge plays also.  In 2013 when McKinnie fell off Pitta was hurt, Boldin was gone and Rice seemed to have lost a step and had a hip injury.  It will be a very tough decision if we secure a top 5 pick, but Bosa being our edge rusher or Hargreaves paired with Jimmy really would take our defense up a notch.  Nkemdiche would be a luxury pick at this point and Treadwell would fill an immediate need and give Flacco a big time playmaker.  It is easier to find good o-line help in rounds 3-5 then it is to find defensive/offensive playmakers such as Bosa, Hargreaves or Treadwell