Ravens2343

I can't be the only one who thinks TCU Doctson can be our AJ Green? 

We could probably get him in the 2nd round.  I like Doctson but I would rather have Boyd or Coleman over him.  If Boyd slips to the 2nd round then I think he would be a great fit for us, he is an excellent route runner and has good hands.

Another Pitt prospect I like for us would be James Conner.  Assuming he recovers from his season ending injury what would you guys think of him in the 4th round?  If healthy I would have had him as a low 2nd or high 3rd pick but he could slip due to his injury.  He would replace Taliaferro as our big back

Watching Perriman's highlights again this morning, he does not look like a savior at WR. We still need to get a #1 WR for the future because Perriman is not it and his health concerns are worrisome. He definitely does not solve our lack of WR talent problems. Treadwell, please.

I think he could be a very good #2 guy for our team, but you are right we need to get a true #1.  I believe we will go the free agent route again with a veteran cut like Vjax or Garcon and then I am hoping we can get someone like Coleman at the top of the 2nd round.  He reminds me a lot of a combination of Antonio Brown and Mike Wallace, he could be a big time addition to our offense.

Scratch that idea, the pack called him up from the practice squad. A couple free agents I would like to see the ravens grab and would be better in our system and supporting cast is Zach Brown and Nick Perry. As for Brown I wanted the ravens to sign his teammate Derrick Morgan last offseason. Even if it meant trading Dumervil. I know I already heard that is a ridiculous idea from friends and family. But hear me out. Dumervil is getting old. He is a very good edge rusher yes. However my opinion he is not one of those freakishly explosive guys that could lose a step and still be a great rusher like Ware or Peppers. And I feel it is better to trade a player a year before he loses his mojo( and get his salary off the books) than a year after when he is worthless. And I believed Derrick Morgan would play far better as an olb with a stout line in front of him that gives him space to maneuver. Because he is a very polished edge rusher. That is the kinda bargains Ozzie needs to find. Besides Morgan is a hard worker and on field leader the ravens need desperately especially after Suggs aging. He is having a fine year and he would be even better on the ravens playing behind Brandon,Jernigan and Davis. Anyways now his teammate Zach Brown is a fit. He is very explosive and good in coverage. And again he would be far better with the ravens playing behind the ravens line. He was considered soft coming out of college. But he has much raised the intensity on his physicality and covers like a safety. He will not break the bank but could play like somebody who broke the bank. Especially with the ravens. He and Mosley will make a formidable team. If the ravens ever went 4-3 he would be a great Weakside LB. The other is Nick perry. He is an athletic freak and has worked hard on his rush moves and cover skills. Again he would benefit playing behind the ravens line. As Dumervil did. I do not like him as much as Derrick Morgan because of Morgans polish and leadership. And he may cost a little more because of his sheer explosiveness and potential. However if he learned a little more technique from Suggs or Dumervil to go with his motor and Explosion, he could very well outplay his salary because he is more explosive than Derrick and can run the arc and is far stronger than when he entered the league. Let's just hope he does not break out this year and drive his price up. The ravens should trade Dumervil NOW to a contender for a draft pick and bring back Suggs at a restructured salary to play part time and coach up Zadarius and Perry.

I like the idea of adding Perry if he does not cost a lot.  Somewhere along the lines of a 4 year deal worth 6-8 million a year wouldn't be terrible, but it would take up a lot of our remaining cap.  As for Brown, I like him a lot but I would imagine the Titans will overpay for him and unfortunately we cannot compete with them cap wise.  As a fallback option at ILB I really like Sean Spence from the Steelers.  He is fast and can cover a lot of space for an ILB, the Steelers also have a terrible cap outlook so I doubt they can retain him if he gets a modest offer. 

The bad part is both are UFA's and Ozzie usually shies away from them, hopefully a losing season will make him reconsider that stance.

What actually happened to KO? I never really heard why he came out of the Cardinal game.

KO left with a knee injury, didn't hear anything on its severity. I assume we will find some things out today at Harbaugh's press conference.

I agree, I'd give him another year with more talent on the offense for the simple fact that it would give Flacco a 2nd year with the same offensive coordinator.  I feel Trestman has been doing fine with the limited talent, espcially with the injuries that have occored on the offense.  Yes, play selection can be a little off at times, but that is true of any OC.  What I don't like is that he is running too many inside runs with a rb that is better for the stretch.  We need to run more stretch and then our running game would be better and in turn our passing game would pick up.

 

Anyway, we are in the top 3rd in the league in offense with the limited playmakers.  Hopefully Perriman can play some this year so he get to see him in action.

I agree I would like to see Trestman back for next year, especially with Flacco having the same OC for more then one season.  If we retool our receiving corps this offseason and add explosive playmaker(s), then Trestman should fare much better next year. 

I agree that Forsett should be running stretch plays more often, Trestman also has him running into 8 man fronts a few times each game.  Once our receiving group is up to par with other NFL offenses, then Trestman should have a full range of play calls to put our players in spots to make plays.  One play I would like to see is getting our tight ends or Juice involved in the screen game like Kubiak did last year.  Pitta ran a few of them early before his injury and Daniels ran some and they worked effectively. 

Agreed, maybe pick up a 2017 1st or a bunch of 2nd/3rd round picks for a team wanting to move up a few spots for a qb.

 

I can see Ozzie doing something like this :

 

top 3 pick --> trading back to about 10 and then when the people he wants aren't there at 10 trading back again and drafting Jaylon Smith from ND, to the behest of Ravens fans. Not because I don't think Smith is a 1st round talent but bypassing the top CB, WR, and OT.

Lets hope that if we have a top 3 pick that he doesn't trade all the way out of the top 10, we need an impact player at the top of this draft.  But, I think a good hypothetical situation would be to have pick #2 and trading back to #5 or #6 and getting a 2nd and 3rd rounder this year.  Then we could put two of those picks together and move back into the first round, especially since we would be picking at the top of the 2nd that carries a lot of value.

ow no doubt this is pees worst season with us.

the numbers say it so nobody can deny it.

 

however the numbers dont support it has been this way since day 1.

 

also my beef is more with them having double standards and blaming people for stuff that aint their fault and then making excuses for others who are clearly at fault.

 

here is a clear cut example.

 

when our defense shows blitz and the opponent QB adjust and beats , they all complain about the defense and how predictable they are and what not and not 1 single compliment about the opponent beating it.

 

same situation with our offense.

the opponent clearly shows they are going to blitz.

neither flacco nor the offense adjust and flacco throws a pick what do these people do?

 

all making excuses....

 

now let me make it clear im not singeling you out and im not pointing fingers at everyone.

im talking to those who do just what i describe above.

 

if it aint you, i aint talking about you.

cause there are a few that are actually objective and have legit concerns about pees that i share as well.

I agree with you that some fans blame certain people no matter what is happening, it happens all the time in sports.  I have legitimate concerns about all of our coaches TBH, but some I feel deserve the benefit of the doubt (mainly Harbaugh).  I also believe that a lot of fault falls on every single player on the 53 man roster, because lets face it at the end of the day they are the ones who have to play and execute.  But releasing Pees and hopefully Hewitt of their duties would give us a clear understanding of whether it was all their fault, some of their fault or the players just overall stink this year. 

The whole point of my response is that I am in favor of replacing Pees and maybe even a few other position coaches, but I am not ready to blame it all of them.  The 53-man roster definitely needs a major overhaul this offseason to compliment the new (hopefully) D-coordinator for 2016.

What's wrong with keeping Aiken? He's not killing it out there but he's been decent.

I am envisioning a wide receiver group of something like this for next season:

Garcon or Vjax (If/when cut), Perriman, Draft Pick (Round 2-3), Campanaro, Givens (Resigned) and Waller

Campanaro could be replaced my another draft pick in round 3-5, specifically someone who can gain separation and possesses short area quickness

That or TE, or ILB...  jk (kind of)

 

As the games have gone so far, the only optimistic thing to look forward to is what we do with a higher draft pick than we're used to getting. Getting a young clear cut #1 WR and then having a (hopefully) healthy Perriman to complement him sounds very appealing. If the stars line up and we get that... thoughts on a high second round pick? Secondary seems like a no-brainer unless true quality player/players were added thru FA

If we land somewhere in the top 3 I don't think we go with a wideout, I would rather have Ramsey, Hargreaves or Bosa.  Truthfully I think we can fix the wide receiver corps in free agency with a veteran addition (Vjax or Garcon?) or someone like Marvin Jones if we want to the UFA route.  Then draft a wideout in round 3 like Demarcus Robison or Pharaoh Cooper or someone that can add playmaking ability.  I am still hoping for a secondary player and pass rusher for our first two picks TBH.  Our defense needs the most attention.

Aiken > Waller.

Maybe at this current juncture he is, but Waller is arguably our best special teams player so far this season.  He is a raw rookie wideout that has not had many chances yet, I don't think the two can really be compared.  Aiken is a journeyman who has had a ton of chances and has not made much of them, especially this year.  If either Marlon Brown or Kamar Aiken are on our 2016 53-man roster, then something in the offseason went terribly wrong

decent?

lmao 

 

having a top 10 defense with webb melvin elam hill stewart  as your secondary is decent?

you seriously expected a top 5 defense with the worst secondary in the league ?

 

im sorry but you guy come with unrealistic expectations to justify what you are saying.

 

funny how none of you set these extremely high expectations for the offense nor are as outraged if they dont meet it.

 

well its my fault for expecting people not to have double standards 

I don't think most fans have unrealistic expectations, but injuries or no injuries we should not be one of the worst defenses in the league this year.  We have defensive talent in Jimmy, Hill, Jernigan, Williams, Mosley and Dumervil.  Most of those guys would be starters on just about every defense across the league.  Pees has done a nice job for us since he arrived, but with this season continuing to get worse each week, it would not be a terrible idea for the organization to replace him and some other defensive coaches.  At 1-6 something is obviously not working and unfortunately the defense will take the brunt of the blame for it.

If we play like we did in the Cardinals game and the refs call a fair game I really think we have a good shot at winning.

Yeah we should have a really good shot, especially since Antonio Gates looks banged up and might not play.  The Chargers defense is probably as bad as ours, so I would expect a high scoring game in this one.  Its astonishing that the Chargers and Ravens were both picked by many to make the playoffs and do well, just nothing has gone right for us or them.

I think its the opposite for pass rush. This isn't a good Draft class for edge rushers, IMO that should provoke us into signing one. Also Biscotti was hammering for a pass rusher in the draft and wanted one badly. We really loved Bud Dupree and there was word of us going after Shane Ray so clearly we wanted an edge rusher. I see that as the case with FAs, I think we peruse a pass rusher. With what has happened right now, I think the boss gets what he wants in Free Agency. 

 

I like Michael Neal from Greenbay. He's a pass rusher and can play anywhere and generate pressure. We miss that from McPhee, I feel that Neal is pretty identical to McPhee and I would like him here. I expect that we show interest in him. Tamba Hali is another guy I like. 

Does Neal play OLB for Green Bay in their 3-4 defense?  Hali to me wouldn't be solving a whole lot because he is over 30 years old as well. A guy in the draft I really like is Emmanuel Ogbah from TA&M.  He can rush the passer, set the edge and drop into space.  Shaq Lawson, Carl Lawson and Charles Tapper could all be options for us in the middle rounds. Pass rushers usually cost to much so I would rather us solidify our secondary and wide receiver group in FA then attack pass rusher and secondary help in the draft.  Id be happy with a guy like Neal though if he can help us rush the passer and set the edge, good suggestion!

I don't see us going after many UFAs either, salary cap space takes into account. I feel like we're going to sign a couple of starting caliber plays on defense, that's where most of the work will be done IMO.

Yeah we could definitely use defensive players.  I think we will definitely come out of F/A with a starting caliber cornerback and a good solid backup ILB.  Our defensive line rotation is pretty solid once Urban returns and I don't see many options for us to upgrade our pass rush until the draft.  Offensively id like to see us add a starting caliber wideout like Vjax and a solid veteran lineman if Osemele leaves.

I see this being a pretty active Free Agency compared to the last few seasons. 

I agree, but I think we will still focus on players who will be cut.  I don't see us going after many UFA's.  Id like to add someone like Vjax or Garcon if cut then add a cornerback like Keenan Lewis or Brandon Carr if cut. 

Its still way to early, but Paxton Lynch is gaining steam as a potential top pick in the draft.  Lets hope these QB's start to rise up and push themselves towards the top.  If we would get the #1 pick I would love a trade back to spot #4 or #5.

Here's where we stand on defensive rankings through 7 weeks of football:

 

POINTS PER GAME: 26th (26.9)

YARDS PER GAME: 25th (385.4)

YARDS PER RUSH ATTEMPT: 9th (3.9)

RUSHING YARDS PER GAME: 10th (102.4)

PASSING YARDS PER GAME: 28th (283.0)

QB RATING: 29th (104.1)

THIRD DOWN %: 32nd (47.1%)

DRIVES AGAINST - SCORING %: 29th (44.0%)

DRIVES AGAINST - TAKEAWAY %: 31st (4.8%)

DRIVES AGAINST - SCORING/TAKEAWAY RATIO: 32nd (9.2 : 1)

 

Last night, we allowed the following (and where that would rank in the NFL if it was our season average)

 

POINTS: 26 (23rd)

YARDS: 414 (32nd)

YARDS PER RUSH ATTEMPT: 5.4 (32nd)

RUSHING YARDS: 150 (31st)

PASSING YARDS: 275 (26th)

QB RATING: 122.1 (32nd)

THIRD DOWN %: 41.7% (25th)

DRIVES AGAINST - SCORING %: 45.5% (5 out of 11 scoring drives) (32nd)

DRIVES AGAINST - TAKEAWAY %: 0% (0 takeaways) (32nd)

DRIVES AGAINST - SCORING/TAKEAWAY RATIO: 5 : 0 (5 scoring drives, 0 takeaways) (32nd)

 

I'm not seeing a single number from this game that is reflective of a good defensive performance.  Almost every category is near the bottom, or the absolutely bottom, of the league if it were how we performed every single game.  This performance is only slightly better than our season averages in a couple of categories, and worse in a lot of them.

The only break I will give to the defense is after Ross fumbled the punt in which that put our defense in a terrible spot after just getting off the field.  It didn't help with PI penalties on Webb (questionable at best) and Trawick (just ran into the wideout before the ball was there).  Other than that it was not a good defensive performance and a lot of the same bad trends from the first 6 games carried over.  The Cardinals are a really good offensive team with a lot of weapons, but on several plays (CJ's touchdown run) our defense was just plain pathetic. 

The offense did not do its part in this game, but by no means did our defense do a great job either.

Is Marlon a UFA or an RFA after this season? Does anyone think the Ravens would really keep him if he is an RFA?

He is a RFA.  We usually tender all our RFA's but Brown and Aiken may be an exception.  If anything I could see them bringing them both back to compete then cutting them once training camp winds down

well yeah coaches do care  about the outcome so i guess don't get your expectations up to much lol

I am sure they do and I want them to, but for my sake at 1-6 I know the playoffs are out of reach so I am more excited for guys to preform who might be here next year.  If we head into the bye at 1-7, changes are going to have to be made at the expense of players, coaches or both.

I want Ramsey bad for this team. He'd solve so many of our problems. I keep going back and forth between him, Bosa, Hargreaves and Stanley.

I really like Vonn Bell if we can't get Ramsey as our FS, but Ramsey is so good.

I recently have really jump on the Ramsey hype train, possibly even taking over the top spot with me over Hargreaves.  I really think it depends what happens in Free Agency though.  IF and its a big IF we can sign Gipson in free agency then I don't think Ramsey is necessary and we would probably look at pass rusher or corner.  But if we can sign a free agent corner then Ramsey would be an absolute beast of a pick.  If we get the #1 pick we could trade back a few spots and accumulate an additional second rounder and still get Ramsey, that would be my ideal scenario.

doubt we passed the ball 54 times so i dont really see how you can count snaps he was run blocking.

 

also you need to consider how the defense was playing them , what their role where on the play, how many times they where targeted and what the quality of the pass was/ compared to the coverage of the defense.

 

drawing a conclusion based on stats alone will never give a fair representation of how they played.

 

if they really where better options they would get more snaps or even surpass the others on the depth chard.

 

if what you say is true it will happen.

 

once the bye comes they are going to evaluate these last weeks and then make changes if needed.

I fully believe Aiken and Browns snaps will decrease in the coming weeks because they are not even run blocking effectively.  I watched the game last night and really tried to focus on a few individual players, Brown and Aiken being two of them.  Aiken ran a 5 yard out route and that was his only catch.  Brown and a terrible drop in the second half and Flacco routinely looked away because he was not getting separation. 

I don't have much faith in Harbaugh making a change because he has shown in the past he will give players and coaches (looking at you Dean Pees) more then deserved chances to prove themselves.  The film is obvious and the results are blatantly obvious so hopefully changes are made in regards to snap counts.  All I am asking is for Givens, Ross, Waller and now Butler to get more opportunities to show what they can do with a heavier workload.  At 1-6 I do not care about the final outcome of the game, all I care about is that they compete to the end and put the best players on the field.  I cannot say with confidence that Aiken or Brown belong on the field right now

they are getting their snaps lol.

 

they arent making the most out of it either.

 

just like givens there have been plays where brown had beaten his man as well , just either the ball did not get their or he could not make the catch.

 

if givens actually made the catch when he had beaten mathieu  then he would had a good case to warrant more snaps.

 

to bad he did not so he is going to have to show it in practice.

 

again dont fall for the hype.

 

if givens and ross show in practice they are ready for bigger roles and then on the field also show they are ready they will get it.

its how things work.

you cant hand players a job and bench other just for the sake of trying stuff.

also its not like they have to compete against stud cbs in practice that make it that much harder to show themselfs lol.

I am not at practice so I don't know how these guys do while there, but from what I saw last night GIvens and Ross took better advantage of their opportunities.  Kamar Aiken played 54 snaps (the most of any wideout) and had 1 catch for 6 yards! How on earth is he still warranted that many snaps for such a low production. 

Brown 3 catches for 22 yards

Givens 1 catch for 31 yards and his first target should have been a 35 yard TD but Flacco underthrew him badly

On one catch Givens gained more yards then Brown and Aiken did combined on 4 catches. Granted he ran a deep route but the fact is we need playmakers who can put pressure on a defense.  That secondary got away with putting Powers on Brown or Aiken and not even bothering with a safety over the top.  Forsett ran numerous times into 7-9 man fronts because of it.  Atleast Givens and Ross have speed that can stretch a defense, isn't that what we wanted Perriman to do this year? 

I am not hyping Ross or Givens up to be good receivers, but they are a better option then Brown and Aiken at the moment.

And I agree you don't just go benching guys for no reason, but there is a reason and its poor play.  Plus Aiken and Brown will almost certainly not be back next year, atleast not any higher then #5 on the depth chart.

because they are better then the next option....

 

seriously people have this discussion every season.

 

2013 our wrs where playing terrible and brown was the bright spot playing limited snaps and everyone wanted him to become a bigger part.

2014 he was supposed to be a bigger part but aiken made a few plays and suddenly aiken should be the starter and even torrey should be benched for him.

2015 aiken is the starter, brown is the 3rd guy like everyone wanted but they underwhelm , suddenly fans see ross and givens make a catch and now all of a sudden they should be the starters....

 

dont you think the coaches see these guys in practice and thus have a pretty good understanding of who plays better?

have we all forgotten how the start melvin hype ended?

 

have you even considered how doing this once again is going to affect flacco?

people complain he never has the same receivers , yet insist we start a different receiver every week based on a catch or 2 a guy made in the previous game.

 

seriously if ross and givens played as good as you think they did on their previous teams , why do you think the teams got rid of them?

 

can we please stop creating this hype based on 1 or 2 plays?

its only going to end up people making a thread like this in the future saying how disappointed they are the guy they where hyped up about did not turn into a star....

Luckily for this conversation I have never been the person who calls for a players benching after a few good plays by his backup, but in Marlon Browns case I really don't see how you or anyone can defend him at this point.  I am not saying we should cut Brown immediately, but giving him less snaps and putting someone like Givens or Ross on the field more only makes sense.  Flacco not having the same wideouts is a problem, but not as big of a problem as the receivers we have given him are not very good apart from SSS, Torrey, Boldin and Mason.  3 of those guys are older receivers on the back end of their respective careers.

I have never been a fan of going into this season with SSS as our lone good receiver with Perriman and a bunch of spare parts behind him.  I am in the minority of people who thought we should have come closer to Torrey's deal to keep him, but that's for another day.

Givens and Ross get limited snaps and have made a few plays, what is it going to hurt by giving them more at the expense of Brown and Aiken?  What is the worse that is going to happen?  Givens and Ross stink and we will have proof that our receiving group needs an overhaul this offseason, I think that's coming regardless.

i dont think you understand it at all.

 

just because givens got open deep on a route he specializes in against a safety who gave him a free release , does not mean he is going to get open open against the opponents top corners when they play press/close on routes that go over the middle or short that expect the WR to make a catch with a defender all over him.

its very different when they also have a safety over the top for help or a lb waiting in the middle to make a big hit.

 

there is a reason boldin is good in certain routes and torrey is good in other routes.

if you have both of them run the other guys routes neither is going to do good.

 

if givens and ross where really good at running every route they would have been on their previous team starting.

 

i dont see what the point is in trying something that already has been proven to not work.

their is alot of tape out there from both and i doubt  every team/coach they met so far where wrong from drawing the same conclusion.

So you are in favor of Brown and Aiken going out there and doing nothing rather then give Givens, Butler and Ross chances at more snaps?  What routes have Brown and Aiken run that an average NFL receiver like Givens or Ross cannot run?  Givens had 87 catches and nearly 1400 yards in 3 season while on the Rams, I am sure he ran other routes than just deep ones to get those catches and yards.  Ross played well in 2014 in limited snaps with the Lions, both guys have played better in the past then Brown and Aiken are playing now.  I understand that not every receiver can run similar routes and be successful, but I have not seen anything out of Brown or Aiken that would suggest someone like Givens, Ross or Butler could not do better or atleast do the same. 

i dont see what the point is in trying something that already has been proven to not work.

their is alot of tape out there from both and i doubt  every team/coach they met so far where wrong from drawing the same conclusion.

Brown and Aiken have proven not to work also but we keep doing that?

coaches dont make decisions on plays made only.

 

players actually have to fit what they are trying to do or its useless.

 

neither givens or ross fit what brown or aiken are doing.

 

neither marlon or aiken are running routes to stretch the field so there is really no point in giving givens or ross that role.

 

what you are suggesting is the same thing cam did wrong.

he was sending boldin and mason deep instead of letting them do what they do best.

 

you play to your players strength not their weakness.

I understand what you are saying.  I don't agree with it though because we have seen enough game film to know Brown and Aiken are not difference makers.  Brown and Aiken are not getting open, did you see Givens burn Mathieu last night?  I don't care if Aiken or Brown can run block, because we had 55 yards total as a team and at 1-6 what we are currently doing is not working that well. Brown and Aiken cannot stretch the field, they cannot separate from defenders and they rarely ever draw a double team.

Not to be harsh to the players, but what strengths do Brown and Aiken have?