furi0usbee

Just trying to bring some positive outlook to an otherwise dreary season.

As much as I would have like to see Ravens lose here, just because. Steelers losing helps the Patriots more, as we may have faced PIT in the playoffs, but it's likely they'll drop a few in a row and be out of contention. So basically Denver, doing it with mirrors, is the only competition for Patriots in AFC, but Denver probably will be unmasked by November. The season is progressing just as expected.

Wow... just waiting for one of these teams to lose. If this is what the AFC brings this year...

We'll take him!

Feeling so bad for the Ravens this season... So sad.

Yeah, I was done, but things come up. I didn't think I'm "trolling." If you think I'm a troll, your definition of a troll must be pretty low. I'm actually posting in the Seahawks forum, just as I've done for every Pats playoff competitor. I don't get you guys. Even the Colts forum gave Patriots fans some love. You guys are a whole other story. But I'm no troll.

Pic I took at Ravens game before my iPhone battery died. Need new battery bad. South endzone. Saw 3 pats TDs including final play at goaline. Very cold.

Stevan Ridley must not have been using the doctored balls, because he was benched for fumbling. And they recover a good percent of their fumbles, and they have some good backs which don't put the ball on the ground a lot. So this is another one of those cool stats, but nothing here to see for me at the moment.

To an ADMIN: When I come to this forum for the first time (after clearing cookies/history), I get redirected to the page below. This is from clicking in the google search results for this forum. You might want to look into that. http://url4short.info/ee3479ed

That's where we disagree. I don't equate providing high/low/hot/cold balls to the ref with tampering of footballs and deflating air *after* the ref has inspected them.

Pats give ball of artificially high (due to heat, not extra air pumped in) 13.5 PSI. Refs remove 1 PSI, actual PSI now 12.5 PSI, the way the patriots "like them." Temperature of air inside ball now comes down to room temperature, actual PSI is now 11.5 PSI. Ball is outside and wet for an hour, PSI is now lower than 11.5. That's what Patriots say, and until the NFL says something different, and can prove something different, NO tampering is needed based on the Patriots explanation. The NFL will have time to refute that.

#### MY FINAL POST ON THIS MATTER #### OK. I've gone back and forth in this thread, and for the most part, Ravens fans have legitimate issues with how the Patriots handled their footballs. But after the Belichick press conference yesterday, he essentially admitted what they did. I'm still hearing people on Patriots radio (Pats fans) still not even know what they are talking about, so I will state the exact defense the Patriots are using and you can be the judge of it. This is NOT my explanation, this is paraphrased right from Belichicks press conference yesterday. The "process" the Patriots use to prepare their game balls, and which lasts right up until the time they hand them over to NFL officials, actually RAISES the PSI in the ball by approximately one pound. This is important. The Patriots then instruct the ref, which may or may not abide by their instruction, to put the game ball at 12.5 PSI. He didn't say it, but because their process artificially raises the PSI by 1, this would require the ref to actually DEFLATE the football by 1 PSI, so the gauge would read 12.5 PSI. He didn't say it because that would be DECEPTIVE. At this point, although the football reads 12.5 PSI, this is a measurement of the actual air pressure inside the football at that moment, and with the air still excited by the Patriots "process" of getting balls ready. Belichick said they did not heat them, but they must have REALLY rubbed them:) So at this point, the football is now at 12.5 PSI (temporarily). Although the gauge says 12.5 PSI, if the excited air inside the football had time to acclimate to room temperature where the balls are tested, and the heat/energy of the Patriots "process" has dissipated, the air pressure would indeed fall to an equilibrium of 11.5 PSI. And this is 11.5 PSI INDOORS. This would depend on how quickly the refs inspected them from the time the Patriots finished their rubbing. I mean they could still be rubbing outside the door before they go in. Crazy though. Now, when these balls enter the field of play, and after having been subjected to 50 degree weather for some duration, that 11.5 PSI is going to fall by even more. If the NFL says balls were 2 PSI under, that means the balls fell another .5 PSI, or basically what Belichick said happened in their tests. For what that's worth. So as you can see, if this is what the Patriots did, aside from being deceptive and skirting the rules and you can call that cheating, which is fair, the Patriots would not have had to tamper with footballs post inspection, and by all accounts, there would have been NO TIME for tampering with the footballs. Belichick basically confessed to providing the NFL with balls that were deceptively HIGH in PSI. I for one DO NOT think the Patriots should be allowed to do this. Although not violating the word of the rule, it certainly violates the spirit of the rule. If I were to make a ruling, and seeing as this had NO effect on the outcome of the game, which would have been a big issue for me, should they have won by a 2 TDs or less, I couldn't do anything more than fine the organization, and fine Belichick. Brady would not be fined. Brady cannot overrule Belichick. And I would fine Belichick the same as I fined him last time $500k for lying when he said he didn't know what the "process" involved, and another $500k as a deterrent for further violations. That's a pretty detailed process, and at one time he must have at least asked what was going on. So did the Patriots TAMPER with footballs after the refs inspected them? NO NO NO. Any conversation or speculation on that is absurd, unless the NFL has some hard proof. Did the Patriots deceive the refs? YES YES YES. And I am happy with any fines the NFL imposes on the Patriots. I DO NOT think there will be suspensions or draft picks taken away however. I'll bet there will be rule changes though. So there, this REALLY is the last time I speak on this until the NFL says something and can back it up with evidence.

Nowhere in your answer did you state that it has been confirmed by the NFL the PSI was measured by refs before the game. To the contrary. I've heard many people in the know that have been in the room on occasions and they said they DO NOT measure the PSI, they simply "feel" the ball. So you are telling me you have half the evidence and you know the whole truth? No denial here. I'm telling you Patriots presented balls less than 12.5 PSI. But they did not tamper with balls once the refs signed off on them. Until you show me the evidence of a tampering claim, the NFL really has nothing. I feel bad for Goodell, as I doubt he has enough to even fine anyone. Poor guy.

The NFL has said NOTHING. That's the problem. I wish they said something so we all don't have to theorize what actually happened. What little has come out of the the NFL's camp has been leaks and no facts. Say what you want, at least we have an explanation, believe it or not, from the Patriots. So we have to wait 10 more days for the NFLs response?

Squeezing ball to "check" it is not evidence that someone tampered with the ball.

Ok, I'm done on this issue. But, for next year, I hope we can meet you guys again in the playoffs. This rivalry is getting really good. Until next year.

Well, with that Belichick P.C. today, the NFL better have some convincing evidence, otherwise you can file this one. Unless NFL has big time evidence, not even fines will be levied here. Just saying. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJ_I-qypKpY

But lying about what? Lying about presenting under-inflated balls to the refs, or lying about tampering with the footballs after the refs inspected them? See, that's the problem. The former gets a slap on the wrist whereas the latter should involve fines and suspensions and loss of draft picks. I will be on your side if tampering was involved. But if all the Patriots did was present under-inflated balls to be inspected, and the NFL/refs didn't do their job inspecting them, the rules don't say the team must present balls 12.5 - 13.5 PSI. And let's take Brady at his work that he used 12.5PSI, which I don't believe him by the way, if they did present at 12.5PSI, even with the 50 degrees temps, the balls would be under the NFL rules. So even if the ball was *legal* at inspection, the ball would be out of spec at halftime. So that's a problem the NFL will have to figure out regardless of the outcome of this case.

The NFL has *never* stated that the balls were gauged and that the have empirical data showing the PSI of each of the balls prior to kickoff. That information *may* exist and will be released by the NFL, but that's now what we know at this point. And to the point of the another poster, presenting under/over inflated balls is trying to skirt rules. Right, no. But the NFL has a job to do here, and it's there job to properly check the balls the Patriots have presented. Like Aaron Rodgers said, he likes over-inflated balls, and he doesn't like when the refs deflate some of his balls, but some get caught, some get through. Now, if the rule stated "you cannot present any ball to the official that is not at least 12.5 PSI and at most 13.5 PSI, that's something different. Believe me, on the drive home from my father's house Monday morning, and first hearing of this story, I was furious. I was ready to take my 3 SB balls and kick them over Gillette. I was that mad. Based on the tweet and what people were saying, I assumed it was black and white and the evidence was there. Problem is, we know nothing from the NFL other than balls were under inflated. We have heard the Patriots say they like 12.5 PSI, which is the only thing they can say to counter any deflation issues. When the NFL presents its evidence, and there is tampering.... I'll be the first to come on here and call them cheaters. But I think there was NO TAMPERING. Patriots presented balls probably 11-11.5 PSI. At that point, it's up to the NFL/refs to say, GOOD, BAD, GOOD, BAD, etc. The rules say the balls must be 12.5/13.5 PSI, not that the Patriots have to present them at that PSI or verify they are at proper PSI. Is that playing loose with the rules? Is that finding a loophole in the text/spirit of the rule? Yes, probably. But that's how rules get changed and clarified/updated. I'll be the first to say Belichick doesn't play fair, he plays to win. I never want to play fair. If I can over-power my opponent, I will do so. But I never want to cheat. Playing fair and cheating are really not the same. Beating the Colts 45-7 is not playing fair. That's taking every advantage against your opponent and beating them as much as you can. Presenting under-inflated balls is not playing fair, that's trying to gain an edge, and letting the NFL/refs sort it out. Tampering with balls is NOT playing fair, not right, and cheating. I know I'm not going to get any sympathy from anyone on here, but just know that I'm not a blind Patriots fan. I hate these Pats fans who say the balls didn't matter anyway, as we won going away. If they tampered with footballs, winning by 100 doesn't mean anything, and could possibly be a factor in why a team won going away. That's pretty much all I have to say on this until the NFL comes out with evidence. Any more talk is just making stuff up, so I prefer to wait for the other side. The defense has spoken, now let's here the prosecution.

Pats fan here. No question Brady had his footballs inflated lower than 12.5 PSI. Here is the problem. I don't think the refs did much more than pick them up and touch them before the game, signing off on all of them. Unless and until the NFL comes out and says they have the weights/PSI of each of those pre-game balls, this may be a case of presenting under-inflated balls in hopes they get in. Now, that still is against the rules, and I'm not for that. However, that is MUCH different than tampering with footballs AFTER the refs have already inspected them. I feel Brady and Belichick already lied to me, so I would be fine (no pun intended) with big fines for them. However, with what we know now, and until the NFL can show the balls were properly checked before the game, and can give us the numbers, all we have is that balls were under-inflated during the game. Therefore, there is nothing more I would do to Patriots/Brady/Belichick at this point, with what we know. Now, lets say the NFL comes back with numbers for all the balls prior to kickoff, and can show that there is no way possible those balls could ever reach the PSI which they ended up with, then it would be clear to me that Patriots did tamper with the balls. If that's the case, and unless they can find the person who did it, and on what orders, I would suspend Brady 4 games and Belichick 8 games and fine the Patriots $1M, and another $1M which would be returned in 5 years if no further violations occurred. Now here is the part that could *really* get people mad, mostly people outside of New England. I don't have faith in the NFL at this point, from all the issues it has had this past year. But what if the refs totally blew the pre-game inspection, so there are no true numbers of the PSI prior to kickoff? All they now have is Brady and Belichick saying 12.5PSI is what they used. If those final numbers are not over 2PSI, and say maybe half the balls are 1PSI and less than 2PSI under, how much of that will they chalk up to environment? But no conspiracy here, but the NFL cannot screw up another investigation. So someone has to get fined here, and if they do have evidence, then I don't mind somebody getting suspended. But I think the Patriots know the NFL really has nothing, which is why Bill and Tom are saying nothing. By repeating the 12.5 number, they then have leeway to say maybe the balls could have been maybe 11.5-12PSI, and they wanted them on the lighter side, but they tried to conform, etc. So if they really end up saying that yes, they did fill them to around 12PSI, then the NFL really needs like 10 PSI balls to make a case. But yeah, if the Patriots presented under-inflated balls, that's not right. But if they tampered with balls post-inspection, that should draw fines and suspensions next year. The NFL is not going to touch the Super Bowl, and that's why I think they are waiting until after that game to make any determination, as to not start another firestorm. Any way you put it, it sucks for Patriots fans like me, who DO NOT want them to cheat and just want them to go out and play. I mean, with that talent of players, why would you even think about cheating? I'm also getting sick of Belichick staining this team.