PurpleCity5

6 hours ago, JO_75 said:

Mangold is the only guy out there I'm interested in as well. Just only if he's cut, I'm sure the Jets would ask for too much in a trade and some team that's not us would be willing to overpay in trade compensation. 

Doesn't Pierce play NT for us? Ngata would fit in where he was before, 3-4 DE. Ngata, Pierce and Jernigan. 

I don't think anyone is paying Mangold big money and if the difference in money between us and let's say a team like the Jaguars is minimal, than I think he'll opt for joining the Ravens. 

Ngata split time at NT and DE during his time here. When Brandon Williams emerged back in 2014 Ngata played more DE but prior to that he split time and played a bit more NT than DE. If Williams leave he'll likely push Pierce for that NT role. 

1 hour ago, Ravensfan23 said:

Yea it's not a really impressive list in terms of bring excitement to the fan base, but knowing how much the Ravens like to find value in veteran on the back 9 of their careers, especially on defense were you're more likely to rotate guys, I thought some of those names would be worth keeping a eye on. 

Mangold definitely is the guy who'd really get excited about adding. But he's already said he'd love to stay in NY and might even be open to taking a pay cut to do so. So he might not even hit the market, but if he does, i agree, bring him in and don't let him leave until the contract is signed. 

If BWill is brought back there's no way Ngata is signed. It'd be no point lol. But if we lose BWill which is a real possibility, you'll have Pierce and Davis as the top guys. At that point I think Ngata would be worth a 1yr deal for a backup guy. Carl Davis is a guy that needs to be pushed and for 2017 Ngata would be a good guy to push him. If he outplays Ngata than great you aren't paying Ngata much anyway, keep him until the end of the season and allow him to retire a Raven. If Carl Davis can't outplay Ngata, than you know you need a upgrade at that position moving forward. I really like Pierce and think he'll be more than ok even as the top guy. 

The Ravens tend to find gems and contributors among veteran cuts. I personally view Mangold in that category, he would love to stay in NY but in a lot of websites and sources I've read, it seems that he's not returning and that there's a good chance he's cut. If so I could certainly imagine him coming here. As you said in regards to other FAs, sell, sell, SELL on him playing with a franchise as good and managed as the Ravens. Playing for the Jets takes a toll on a player and I know he wants to know what winning feels like again. He's made his money, I don't think he wants to waste his time playing for an underwhelming franchise like Cleveland unless someone severely overpays which I doubt will be the case. 

I think he'll compliment Yanda very well and both will further influence Stanley and Lewis to be more physical linemen. You can't let him leave the facility without a deal. 

55 minutes ago, Ravensfan23 said:

NFL.com has a list of guys who might get cut and I think there are some interesting names.

Nick Mangold is coming off a injury but he was still viewed as one of the better Center in 2015 and limited action in 2016. At 33 he still has a couple more seasons and I think him paired with Yanda would be great. I think he'd be an upgrade at Center and a great mentor to whoever is drafted. 

Jason McCourty is veteran I wouldn't mind bringing in. I'd definitely attack the CB position at the top of the draft but McCourty could be a nice insurance signing that'll at best give the Ravens great depth if the rookie CB is a stud day one. Not sure he's Safety material like his brother but if he could it's a added bonus. 

David Harris if cut could be a nice 1 year bridge. Not sure what the plan for KC is, although I assume the day Orr retired the Ravens implemented a play for KC to be a ILB. Harris would be a nice veteran presence alongside CJ to help KC or any rookie drafted learn the game better. He feels like a Ravens veteran signing. Both he and Mangold are tough gritty players who have been rocks for the NYJ

Devon House could be a nice add at CB as well. He had a really solid year in 2015 with the Jags. Honestly can't remember much about him but he did play well in week 3 vs the Ravens. 

Lamar Houston only played 2 games last year due to injury, but had 8 sacks in a 2015 as a rush specialist. If he's healthy he might be worth a flier as a rotational guy to help with the pass rush if Doom doesn't take a pay cut. 

Jairus Byrd. How much of an upgrade over Webb would he be? I think it would be but i'm not sure what the price tag would be. I think much like Weddle he could be dropped into this Ravens defense and be back to playing at a high level. Not sure what happened to him in NO but he was a really good safety in Buffalo 

Haloti Ngata is on this list and if he's cut I'd love to bring him home for 1 more year. I'd like to see him and Suggs have one more year together and maybe enjoy a farewell season together similar to Ray and Ed. The last of that great Ravens Defense era. If the Ravens lose BWill and Ngata is cut, I'd bring him back to rotate and help groom Peirce and Davis. 

 

Out of everyone on that list, as soon as FA starts, the only guy I'm interested in is really Nick Mangold. If I'm making an improvement at CB/OLB, then I want to go big or go home at each of the respective positions. I'm looking at the market for the top FA OLBs/CBs and if the price is right then I'm certainly for bringing them in, if not then I'm okay with looking towards those other guys, but Mangold would be a solid signing, he may have declined but we need as much maulers as we can get here. I haven't kept up with him honestly but I know what he was at his best, even if he's declined a bit, I just want a Center who can push the pocket and help big on inside runs. 

I just don't know about Ngata, I don't know how much he has left and I think he can delay bringing a guy like Michael Pierce who has big potential into the mix. I just don't think Ngata is a need if we bring back Brandon Williams as heartbreaking as that sounds. 

Back to Mangold, a lot of his struggles were attributed to his injuries, and it's not like the Jets are desperate to let him go, they have weighed in keeping him at a restructure but the cap savings is too much to do so. Personally I would say bring him in for a visit and don't let him leave till he signs. 

1 minute ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I'd say Humphrey is a much better speed prospect. I'd like to see better long speed from Wilson. But Wilson is second to none as a press corner. He's so patient with waiting for his man to make the first move so that he can dictate the receivers movements.

I think Wilson's speed is pretty good to go along with his size but I still need to watch more so I'll take your word for it on Humphrey's speed, I did watch plenty of Humphrey's film and he is pretty fast. The 40 yard dash isn't a big deal for me but I'm interested to see how Wilson does there and in the shuttle drills. I'll keep up with that. 

23 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I don't really like it because Humphrey, at the moment, projects much better to a zone scheme where he can play Tampa 2 or Cover 3 while he learns some of the finer points of the game. Jimmy was pretty much a press specialist coming out.

I agree, I don't like the comparison either but we do play plenty of Tampa 2 coverage and cover 3 as well so that will help the learning curve. Personally I do like his size traits and that's what compares to Jimmy best. He's still my #2 CB even though he might have a little trouble in man but we don't play it that much.

At the moment I have Wilson as the #1 CB considering Lattimore's injury bug. I know Wilson is more of a man-cover guy but he looked solid in zone and has the ability to play press and off. He's more refined than Humphrey's while having similar size-speed traits. Wilson looks more like Jimmy  

2 hours ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

If those guys are getting in the upper teens in terms of average annual salary that only drives Britt's price up making it even worse in my opinion.

And aside from last year we're talking about a guy who's career highlights were a couple 700 yd seasons with some injury riddled stinkers in between. He's never really been a major red zone threat. And with his size he should be. He plays much smaller than he is.

I mean honestly -- I just look at him like i look at Kamar Aiken. On a bad offense surrounded with no talent both can put up a #1 WR like season. 1,000 yds, 5 TDs. But, put them in an offense with actual NFL caliber talent and they quickly fall down the pecking order.

So, why the love for Britt but no one pulling to resign Aiken at half the cost? Aiken has at least been durable....

 

The whole poor offense, no QB argument in favor of Britt kind of falls flat for me, because we saw Aiken with a bunch of nobodies and Ryan Mallet throwing him the ball put up similar numbers. And I guarantee no one would be happy if we paid him $7m/yr and considered cutting Wallace to do so.

And, btw, just bc the Rams paid Tavon $10m/yr doesnt make signing equally ok players to similar contracts a good idea. The Rams way of doing business isnt exactly working, so citing their contract offers as examples isnt a ringing endorsement.

 

And this whole "fit" thing... dont really get it either. Wallace doesnt fit, but Britt somehow does even though we havent seen him in the Ravens offense. We've seen Wallace and the results were pretty good.

And for as much as I hear 'but Wallace got most of his production early in the season." So did Britt. It happens. Defenses adjust and try to take away what youre doing well. Someone else has to step up, hence the need for a "complimentary" receiver, not all new receivers.

So, if we're talking about Marshall, Garcon, and Britt all likely being in a similar price range - i just dont get the desire for Britt over either the others. Both have been more consistent, more productive, and imo are better fits for what we do. 

If we're seriously gonna consider Britt, I'd rather just bring Aiken back at half the cost and give him more targets. maybe not quite the upside... but less volatile.

Red-zone scoring is about team execution and creativity, that Rams and Jeff Fischer do not come to mind when I think of that. I can't put that all on Britt. 

Also, he's not physical as his size indicates? I disagree look at the 0:26 mark, Darius Slay did as much as he could to execute the tackle, he got low, wrapped up and tried to force the receiver to the ground, unfortunately with the end-zone in front of him, Britt used his strength and dragged him to the end-zone. Any other receiver who doesn't poccess the size or physicality there would have been brought down. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9k1F1JF7o_M

Look at his 2nd TD vs Detroit on the 2:37 mark, the guy took a CB, Linebacker and a dragged Kerry Hyder(DT) to the end-zone and completely bullied his way there.  On the slant pattern, Britt already got the first down, if he was finesse like other receivers he would've went straight to the ground as soon as he made the catch, he didn't and broke those tackles thinking touchdown. 

In Aiken's case, he got a stupid amount of targets when Steve Smith went down and while he preformed well, he did play with Joe for 10 games, who we know is far better than any Rams QB. Aiken later on played with not the best of guys behind center, but he didn't have much competition to take targets away from and once Steve Smith, Breshad Perriman and Mike Wallace arrived, he was back to the #4 role. 

Also, it's not just the Rams way of doing things, the Falcons who nearly won the SB gave Mohammad Sanu a $7M per year deal coming off a 394 Yard and 0 TD season and can anyone in their right mind justify that? 

In Pierre Garcon's case, he's not coming from a worse situation, I would legit say he's coming to a worse situation offensively speaking here considering that I'll have to admit that the Redskins offense is a good amount better than the Ravens. He's coming from a passing attack that ranked 2nd in the league and a QB who last year ranked among the top 5 and this year among the top 10. I don't know if you're getting a better Pierre Garcon here than in Washington. Kenny Britt is a different story and I'm certain you're getting someone who can play better than the 1,000 yards he put up in that horrendous offense. 

4 hours ago, Ravensfan23 said:

Somebody is gonna strike gold with Britt because I feel many will look at his time with the Rams as underachieving. When in reality he's done extremely well for them considering what he's had to deal with and the QBs he's been forced to play with. Garcon is gonna get a ton more than Britt I think and I think Marshall might as well. While teams are fighting over Jeffery, Garcon, DJax and others, I'd attack Britt the minute FA opens, offer him a fair deal, sell playing for a winning team and top level QB and put the ball in his court. 

I hope that team is us because I think Oz would go after someone who can be a bargain. If the price is right than I certainly think he would be a great signing. 

2 hours ago, usmccharles said:

@PurpleCity5 thanks for posting those stats.   I'dI'd bebe inintrigued to see targets for each and what the other receiving options did as well.  Britt is clearly the best WR in STL and garcon played with djax and reed,  and there was another guy that I forget his name.  So I think targets ans overall pass attempts could tell a different story as well.  Leaving work now and didn't have time to look up the stats 

Garcon is a possession receiver so I would anticipate that he got plenty of targets, probably even more than Britt given that he plays in a considerably better passing offense. In regards to DJax and Reed, DJax missed a large part of last season and Garcon had stretches of the season in which he was pretty unimpressive. Reed also missed a couple of games as well and there were talks that surrounded Garcon on him being a cap cut, this was during Kirk Cousins career year where the Redskins offense exploded and took off once they got DeSean back and Jordan Reed broke out. I think Garcon rebounded very well but I don't think you're going to get a better Garcon here than what you got in Washington. 

3 minutes ago, berad said:

You make a compelling case. I guess it's just something I 'feel' - take that for what it's worth, not much.

Yeah, I'm just stating my opinion, I just don't think Garcon is a better option right now than Britt and I would 100% take Britt over him right now. 

3 minutes ago, Purple_City39 said:

You don't even need to cut Wallace.  Pitta, Watson, Wright, Dumervil, K.Lewis, and Arrington get you 15.86M in cap space immediately.  Right tackles typically average 7M or less (minus one extreme case) and DTs of Williams' one dimensional caliber (although strong at it) shouldn't cost more than a 10M average at worst honestly.  If you consider how all Ravens new contracts have a low first year cap hit, both should be easy to sign.

The reason these six players make the most sense is because they all have a replacement under contract right now and the team wouldn't need to scramble to find players.  Maybe a FA CB if they don't like Canady and want to have numbers before drafting one or two.  Wright and Pitta are the only ones that really played last season and who really thinks we'd crumble with Gillmore/Boyle/Waller and a rookie CB taking over their snaps?

This way, IF it comes to it, you still have another almost 15M to open up from Webb, Wallace, and Zuttah.  Problem is they DON'T have replacements already under contract

Of course you don't have to cut Wallace but that $6M in savings would help any one of the CB/OLB a ton. We certainly have a replacement in Wallace with Perriman and while he's not a #1 WR, he's certainly might be relied upon as a #2 and I think the team fells strongly about that. I don't think it stops there, I can imagine cutting Wallace would contribute to signing a low cost WR or invest early via draft. I certainly don't think Britt would be the final answer to our WR problems. 

14 minutes ago, berad said:

Yeah but he's underachieved for so long, don't know if I can trust it.

I don't think he's underachieved, so much has been expected of him but he's played in a dreadful offense. 

Everyone is talking up Pierre Garcon but let's comparing him side by side to Britt, I don't think he's been all that much better. 

Pierre Garcon 

G GS Rec Yds Avg Lng TD Att Yds Avg Lng TD

2016 Washington Redskins 16 16 79 1,041 13.2 70T 3TD

2015 Washington Redskins 16 16 72 777 10.8 39T 6TD

2014 Washington Redskins 16 14 68 752 11.1 70T 3TD 

Kenny Britt 

SeasonTeamReceivingRushingFumbles

G GS RecYds Avg LngTD AttYds AvgLng TD FUM Lost

2016 Los Angeles Rams 15 15 68 1,002 14.7 66 5TDs

2015 St. Louis Rams 1614 36 681 18.9 60T 3TDs

2014 St. Louis Rams 16 13 48 748 15.6 63T 3TDs 

Like I said before, Garcon played in an offense that was up there with some of the passing offenses in the league and ranked 2nd in the league and 3rd overall offensively. Comparitevly Britt played in an offense that ranked as the 31st ranked passing attack and 32nd ranked offense as a hole. I'll also keep in mind that Kirk Cousins is light years better than anyone the Rams have. I like Garcon, but it's like if Julian Edelman were to come here from New England, that's nice but is he going to be better here than what he was with New England? I could certainly say that in our case, we would get a much better Kenny Britt from LA coming here and that's taking into account his impressive season. 

13 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

Oh I agree, he definitely should cash in, that's why I said ideal for us.  I want Britt, I think I want him more than Garcon now, but hes going to get paid and I don't think we will even come close to paying what he wants.  My stance on Wallace is going to stay the same, if we bring in a legit WR1 like Marshall then I have no issues cutting him, we know what Marshall can do.  Britt has the potential to be a legit number 1 I agree, and I would love it if we risked it and signed him and it panned out. But imagine if it doesn't.  I know he was on a terrible team and had a terrible qb and still put up those numbers, but its still just one year.  I honestly think its going to take 10mill a year, which we wont do. 

Garcon is cashing in as well and I would anticipate that he makes as much as Britt if not a bit more. His market is very much up there and he's looked at as a top 5 receiver on the market so someone is going to pay him and going onto age 30 you can expect him to be very aggressive with his offers and trying to maximize his earnings. 

Britt nearly matched Garcon's production, or in my opinion exceeded it with Garcon playing in a high-octane passing offense that ranked in the top 5 two years in a row, Britt played in an offense that I would rank in the bottom 3 and yet matched Garcon's production.Side-by-Side the past three seasons his numbers doesn't look all that much better than Britt and the funny thing about this is reports out there are saying that the Redskins want to replace Garcon with Britt. I think they view Britt as the better receiver as well. 

I don't know about Britt getting $10M, his value is tough to gauge given that the Rams haven't made an offer on him, so teams will have to figure out just what Britt's value is worth and I don't think they're starting at $10M and going from there. If we get him at $8M than I'm fine with that, it's typically what a prototypical #2 WR makes and nothing near to what OBJ and Mike Evans are getting when they hit FA. 

13 minutes ago, berad said:

Not on board with Britt at all but I can buy your reasoning with Wallace. The Ravens sent Boldin packing for that much.

I feel like Britt and Marshall both fit the prototypical WR the Ravens want. 

3 hours ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

I dont get the Britt love. He's going to get paid like a legit #1, after just 1 season of performing like one. In how many years of his career has he shown this? I think he had 1 year early on, then lived off that "potential" for the next 3-4 years, and now busts out 2016 and everyones in love with his potential again.

Great, maybe hes turned the corner. But i think paying a 28 year old receiver whose been in the league 7 years with only 1 really productive season is a gamble.... especially when he's probably going to command ~$8-10m/yr.

You basically give him a deal hoping that his lone very good year (last year) will be his norm for the next 3-5 seasons, and that his previous 6 seasons were derailed by injury, bad situations or whatever. You need him to play up to his ceiling to even come close to getting value. And if he reverts to who hes been the majority of his career you're paying a #3-4 guy like a top receiver.

 

At least Marshall/Garcon have proven reliably productive. All things equal i prefer Marshall or Garcon. Honestly, even if we get outbid or dont go after either - i dont think id want Britt even as the consolation prize. I just think youre going to have to commit too much for the risk that he represents. Youre counting on too many variables to pay off in order for that deal to have value, and it could way too easily result in deciding between way over paying for a 4th receiver or eating a bunch of dead cap.

No thanks.

Ravensfan23 summed up my thoughts but I don't consider $7-8M to be paid like a #1 WR. Mohammad Sanu, Marvin Jones, and Torrey Smith are all making this amount or at least close to it and these are your prototypical #2 WRs, so I wouldn't consider 8-10M as #1 WR money. 

Britt fits everything the Ravens want, they want to pick up 1st downs, they want to move the chains, they want to be more effective in the redzone and Britt can contribute in all areas. You brought up Marshall and Garcon and while I agree that Marshall is more talented, I don't think even his stressful offenses are as bad as Britt was. In Garcon's case he played in a high octane passing offense that ranked top 5 in passing yards last 2 seasons and a QB who is light-years better than anyone the Rams had(Yes, it was that bad for LA.) With that said, Britt preformed pretty damn well given the circumstances and I think he could be a stud with Ravens/Joe. 

2 hours ago, usmccharles said:

I just think its going to be hard to find the production for the same cost of what Wallace is at.  Now like you said if cutting him means a Marshal, im all for it.  Also, if we can land Britt for a one year prove it deal. that would be ideal

Britt is not coming here on a 1 year, he's cashing out as he should. 1000 yards on a dreadful offense like that is what I would consider to be impressive. He fits everything the Ravens are missing in a #1 starting WR and that's a chain moving physical presence who can be an asset in the Red-zone. 

As far as Wallace goes, he's not expensive but I wouldn't call him cheap either going into this season. At $8M his cap hit is decent but with $6M cap savings it makes it a rather difficult decision to digest. Furthermore I would say that Wallace replacement is already on the roster, Perriman can be that deep threat for you but it's apparent that the Ravens are banking on him being more than that, they said he's not ready for a #1 WR role at the moment, but he'll probably move into the #2 role going into next season.. The Ravens need something that Wallace can't provide and that's a chain moving prototypical possession WR that we're trying to replace with losing Steve Smith Sr. 

6 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

Whats your guess on a WR we bring in?  BP can not be our number one option

I certainly think we bring in someone and I think that guy is an upgrade whether it be Britt/Marshall or whomever, I think we pay up for a WR. 

19 hours ago, JO_75 said:

This is going to be a long 3 or 4 weeks as I imagine most teams will wait until the March 1st Deadline to apply to Tags to players. I just hope we get a deal done with Wagner or Williams before hand.

I might be in the minority here, but after thinking about it and talking about it I think we keep both Williams and Wagner and make some cuts that will include Pitta, Watson, Wallace, Wright, and Doom. 

I think the team views them both as priority 1A and 1B and I think we're going to try our hardest to retain both guys.We will have more to work with and both guys should be highly valued and I don't think Williams is making a lot more than Damon Harrison is. I don't think Wagner is setting a new record for RT money and both guys remain here. 

18 hours ago, Ravensfan23 said:

Yea Britt will be tricky imo for the exact reasons you mentioned. I prefer Britt over Marshall because he'll be around longer and doesn't seem to be as problematic. With that being said I wouldn't have an issue with Marshall other than his age. So if Marshall is the guy, I'd like to see Woods added or a guy like Kupp drafted as a long term option. 

 

 

Britt's market might not be as great as he hopes it would be. I don't think in results in him making significantly less than what he expects, I think it's going to cost the Ravens some money, but not as much if the market doesn't view Britt as valuable as he thinks. 

I like Marshall, but he keeps bouncing around, I think that has plenty to do with his locker room issues, I wouldn't mind him and Woods, that would be a great combination but that seems pricey, I think an early draft pick is probably added in place of Woods. 

18 hours ago, Ravensfan23 said:

I think Perriman will be a huge part of what the offense wants to do in 2017. His readiness is the question. Even last year Harbs was talking about how much they wanted to unleash Perriman and they wanted to see big plays out of him consistently but he just wasn't ready after missing training camp in back to back years. Well the gloves are off now. He'll be full throttle and the Ravens will run him like a thoroughbred. Yes he'll have to improve route running and become more physical but I think the offseason and training camp will solve that issue. I fully expect Perriman to have the same type of production Wallace had last year but more TDs. 

 

I feel like Perriman just needs to refine those routes over the off-season. He doesn't have to be significantly great in that aspect he just has to improve due to his fantastic size-speed combination. He definitely has to improve selling those routes for sure and running sharper patterns, but Joe needs to be able to find him at the top of his routes because there are times in which he has missed him. I feel like if he can do that, then he'll enter the season as our #2 WR and maybe as our #1. I think he has to play more physical as well but he does a good job of winning inside position and boxing out CBs, I personally think that signals that he's not the finesse type of receiver that some believe him to be. 

On the topic of his routes, he played in a Pro-Style offense in UCF and you saw him run the full route tree and while they weren't great routes, a lot of them were not as bad as I thought they would be. They weren't that good but I thought they were somewhere between below average to average, nothing above that. I honestly think that a lot of his struggles in terms of his refinement comes from missing a lot of time. 

I personally think the Ravens are banking on his development big time whether we like it or not. Honestly, I'm happy we picked him, if it wasn't for the injuries I think we would've saw a much better Breshad Perriman, if given the opportunity this off-season I personally think the guy is going to be a beast once he improves on his routes, QB-WR chemistry and physicality. He said it himself, he finally knows what he has to work on now. 

1 hour ago, usmccharles said:

That's my thought.  If we Bring in Marshall, Garcon I could see us cutting Wallace.  But Britt I don't know because I just don't know what to expect from him, I like the upside of him but having Britt and BP could be risky. 

I'm fine with cutting Wallace if we bring in Marshall or Britt since they're capable of #1 receiver production, but in the case of Garcon, I don't know. He played in a very high volume passing offense and isn't what I would call a #1, I would probably hold out on cutting Wallace if we bring in Garcon. 

1 hour ago, Ravensfan23 said:

That's the biggest thing with Wallace, much like Boldin he has no reason to re-do his deal especially since he outperformed his contract last year. I think Wallace was brought in as insurance for Perriman last year. If Perriman was healthy from day 1 I felt the Ravens would have allowed him to sink or swim as the #2 WR in hopes that by seasons end they'd see #1 potential. Wallace outperformed that and has every right to feel like he deserves the 8Mil cap hit he carries in 17.

I would love to add Britt, but I feel like he'll start a bidding war and I don't think the Ravens will go too high on it. I think he's a perfect fit to what we wanna do and he'll be around longer than a guy like Marshall. Just not sure what his market value will be coming off that 1,000 yard season. 

I really don't think the Ravens see the Ravens attacking either position too heavy in FA honestly. Unless a cap casualty comes available I think those two position will be addressed in the draft. Rarely do you find top quality guys on the market at those positions and I don't think the Ravens want to risk getting burned by putting big money into either position unless it's a Dumervile like fluke that a guy comes available. I think the Ravens will look to lock up Wagner, Juice and Bwill, then prepare for any big contracts coming up in house. Weddle might be as big as it gets for a while in terms of outside Free Agents. 

I see that problem with Wallace but as you said and I very much agree with it, get an upgrade and you could/should release him if we manage to keep Williams/Wagner. 

I personally think Britt could rise in the open market but my theory for why it might not happen is that the team he currently plays for, the Rams doesn't have much desire to get into a bidding war with anyone else over him. Because of that, it's going to be a little difficult for teams to establish the value that they would have in Britt and where to go on from there. I also think the FO might have to force their hand into paying someone whether they like it or not, unlike past years they're not really getting the luxury of bringing in a WR cut from another team who has plenty left in the tank such as a Steve Smith Sr. He was honestly a no-brainer signing

Also, going back to Boldin, they gave up a 3rd and 4th round pick for a contract that Arizona badly wanted to get rid off and we took that cap hit for a great receiver. Going way back we picked up Derrick Mason as an unrestricted FA and while I don't know the full details of the contract, it may have been a bargain signing, but it surely wasn't cheap. If a guy is talented and can propel us to SB Champs and make this team better, than I wouldn't rule out making the sacrifice for a guy like Britt. 

My biggest problem though, is that 1,000 yards on a dreadful offense with one of the worst QB situations in the league on one of the worst teams is pretty impressive, I think some teams will take that into account and view Britt as someone much more capable in a real NFL offense. 

Out of all options, Marshall seems like a realistic one, I know about his chemistry issues but that doesn't mean the guy doesn't produces on the field. His red-zone abilities, possession WR capabilities and QB-WR chemistry that he tends to have with his guys could be put to great use here and I honestly think that if everything goes right, Brandon Marshall first time going to the playoffs might also be his first time winning a SB. 

34 minutes ago, Ravensfan23 said:

yes you could argue that and i agree but that's not the point.

Taking that same theory that Aiken saw increased snaps because he was the backup possession WR. Let's kinda look into the future by 5-6 months. Of course this is hypothetical, but let's say Brandon Marshall is a Raven. No way he's not the #1 guy who'll be relied upon to keep the offense moving steady. Wallace doesn't fit this role at all, which is why the Ravens feel they need a veteran possession guy. That means Wallace at best would be the #2 guy and basically have the same role as last year. Now you have Perriman who the Ravens are hoping can be a #1WR but at the very least a big play #2 type guy, which is exactly what Wallace was last year. So if Perriman remains healthy, who's snaps do you think he'll cut into? The veteran possession WR that's gonna probably be used a lot like Sr was, or Wallace who has basically the same role in the offense? I say Perriman cuts into Wallace's snaps and targets this year. 

So if that's the case, you have Wallace splitting reps as a #2 type WR. Are you paying 8Mil to a guy who isn't even a consistent starter? As talented as he is, Wallace could easily fall to the #3 WR and if a guy like Camp, who the Ravens still believe in for whatever reason, actually puts it together as a slot guy, that's another role that Wallace doesn't fill. That's doesn't even mention if a guy like Kupp is drafted and sees the filled as a rookie. So he could easily find himself going from a starter in 2016 to a #3 or #4 type WR in 2017  getting maybe 3-4 targets per game, just like Kamar Aiken. 

I think the best shot for Wallace to remain a huge part of this offense assuming everyone stays healthy and improves is for a guy like Robert Woods to be added. Woods has never been more than a #2 and I think with him, Wallace and Perriman the Ravens would employ more of a committee at WR than relying on the top 2 guys as much. But if a well established vet is added and Perriman progresses the way they want, I think Wallace's production suffers because of it and if the Ravens kind of forecast that, they very well might be asking Wallace to take a pay cut. 

People have been sleeping on the idea of Perriman becoming the starter and I don't know why. If Mike Wallace finish the season on a stronger note than I would like to believe that he stays but I think that his decline towards the end of the year opens the door for Perriman to step in and take that role. The team is and might have to rely on Perriman to step up and take over. Barring any injuries or step backs I anticipate that he will take over as the #2 reguardless if Wallace is here or not. If healthy and if his routes improves than I think he wins it, he can do what Wallace can as a deep threat and win inside position and play a more physical brand of the WCO. Not to mention he adds more as a potential Red-Zone threat and that's not what Wallace is to me. 

I think Wallace outperformed if deal and that's nice, but we're going to need someone to be physical from the outside while improving all other spots on the defensive end and the cap savings from letting go off Wallace would help that. 

On 2/14/2017 at 10:31 AM, Ravensfan23 said:

I think Wallace will be asked to re-work his deal in some way. However, if you can land a Britt or a Marshall I'd have no issue parting ways with him. Honestly i think right now I'd go hard after Robert Woods who's only 25 and is cut from the same mold as Dmase, Boldin and Sr as a strong possession WR who can make big plays and also physical in the run game. I think he could be a bargain FA with a huge impact because he's entering his prime. So if the Ravens upgrade the WR position in FA, I would have no issue seeing Wallace walk. I don't worry about having a 30+ year old veteran at WR because Flacco is a veteran. But if that 30+ WR is needed, I'd bring back Q for one year and allow him to retire here. 

Not sure how much money will be saved, but the guys I see cut are Doom, Pitta, Watson, Zuttah, Arrington, Lewis and Wright. I think Webb will be asked to restructure, take a pay cut or be released. I think those guys combine would free up like 20Mil give or take a couple million. 

So if i'm making the decisions, which i'm clearly not lol, I would make those cuts and rely on younger guys to step up. I have faith in the 4 young TEs we have and the CB position needs to be upgraded anyway. So Pitta, Watson, Arrington, Lewis and Wright shouldn't be hard to replace imo. I had the Ravens taking Dalvin Cook at 16, but now I have Derek Barnett being selected and immediately taking over for Doom. I just think the Ravens will place value on continuing to build the offensive and defensive lines. 

I don't see Wallace as a candidate for a re-do. He did outplay his deal and while I think he could decline next season, as an aging guy who can still contribute he might feel that he can make as much or even more if cut. 

I personally think Wallace is gone if an upgrade is brought in. I think the team will take a hard look at Kenny Britt because he fits the mold of a WR you want in a WCO. 

I think that $20M would be used for other avenues such as CB/OLB and maybe even extending players. I think Wallace getting cut would contribute to a pricey FA WR. 

4 hours ago, Ravensfan23 said:

Yea I actually do. I didn't before but I do. I don't think Juice is a concern at all imo. Even if the Ravens make him the highest paid FB it won't be costly. 

With Wagner, I don't think the Ravens will have to break the bank with him. I'd love to hear what the initial offer was, assuming the info is correct as you mentioned. I honestly thought if the Ravens offered Wagner a fair deal that placed him in the top 5-7 salaries of RTs he'd re-sign before hitting the market so I wouldn't be surprised to hear that the 2 sides aren't too far apart. Maybe it's a 5th year or signing bonus, but I'd be surprised to see Wagner get much more than 7+ Mil a year and I think the Ravens will offer between 6.6-7Mil

I don't think BWill will command the money many of us thought. I know earlier in the process I did, but I'm not so sure now. In the case of all three guys, I just get the feeling that they will be happy with the Ravens making competitive offers and not feel the need to be the highest paid at their positions. I think with Wagner and BWill there are big differences between them and Torrey or KO. I think the Ravens will be close to any offer they get on the open market and they'll return. 

I still think it would be tough to keep both Wagner and Williams because I do expect the team will fill in other spots elsewhere. I know me and you talked about Mike Wallace getting cut due to his cap hit but if Williams/Wagner are retained do you believe that to be the case? Because I find it hard to imagine that we do indeed keep both of them and someone outside of Doom doesn't take the fall for it. I think Webb is taking a pay-cut but I personally feel like if we do keep them both, than Mike Wallace might be gone. He could be a casualty for someone who could upgrade him and do what the Ravens hope to accomplish with this offense, I can't imagine a scenario where we keep both Williams/Wagner and keep Wallace while bringing in a pricey Vet. 

I think Wagner wants to hit the open market before signing a deal to see his worth. I doubt he's getting anything more than $8M unless he's playing LT for someone else.