PurpleCity5

11 minutes ago, Deflated Football said:

I'd trade a second and address either LOLB or WR in the first depending if we sign Dunlap to take over RT. A second for Butler would be good value but I'm sure the Pats can get more. 

He reportedly wants out, and I don't blame him. New England did him so dirty. He pretty made the game-winning play in the Super Bowl against Seattle, played like a Pro-Bowler and then the team not only wants to trade him but gives Stephon Gilmore a pay-day (A CB who I consider to be overrated). Coming here would motivate him so much to get back at his old team, with that said, for a 2nd round pick? Maybe, but a 1st? No, I would be upset at the move. 

I don't know if they can get more. Guys like that who don't give much assurance to teams might not get the deal done. I think New England tried to trade Butler for Cooks straight up and New Orleans wouldn't budge on it. I think that shows that the value of Butler doesn't match a 1st but rather a 2nd, we're tight against the cap and we can't afford to miss on a 2nd round pick that can play for years to come. 

4 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

They would need to trade their second as well for that to be even close to feasible

I would be pissed if we traded our 1st for Butler. 

10 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

You won't get Claiborne that late. Some team will take a flier long before then.

9 hours ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Yea, theres reportedly a handful of other teams in the hunt.

If we pull back on our interest, someone else will surely pounce.

Oh no, I worded that one wrong. Under the assumption that we do sign Claiborne, then I feel like we can still view him as a legit guy to take the No.2 CB role if someone that we really like in the draft gets taken early. Even if someone that we like is gone, we still have Claiborne on the roster to fall back on. Obviously I think he's gone come draft time. 

1 hour ago, January J said:

Mangold or flowers wouldn't cost us a compensatory pick. I think they are our best bet and would be great additions. I just can't wait to get the notification asayin zuttah has been released lol

Really hope Mangold is brought along but that seems doubtful right now, it really depends on his market, he would be such a well needed addition here and one that we would love to have. If healthy and still shown that he can play at a competitive level, then it would be a game-changer for this OL. 

Going to miss him, if he returns that will be great, but if Claiborne is re-signed then I don't think the chances of that happening are particularly high. Still, Webb was a class-act and one of the most honorable Ravens we've ever had. Going to miss the guy. 

20 hours ago, EdTheMythicalOne said:

I think everybody that is a more than a casual fan of the NFL knows that a multi year deal is not a multi year deal until the team keeps you on the roster. The money is not guaranteed and you can get cut at any time. That's why guys want as much money up front and guaranteed to them more than just number of years.

Not sure where you're getting this no wear and tear thing on Waston. He's played no less than 12 games a season since his sophmore season in the NFL. He's not a "superb" blocker by any means. He's just not horrible at it. Dude is 37 and coming off of an Achilles. I'd be surprised if the Ravens keep him, but if they do I will pull for him since he's a Raven.

Guys can still look good late in their careers after they lose a step. It doesn't mean they haven't. They make up for it with experience and hard work. We made Derek Mason look like a superstar when he was pretty much done. Why? Because he was our main target.

The point you make about Pitta is laughable at best. He's been nothing but consistent his whole career when he's healthy. What does he do well? Catch the ball. He's got the best hands on the team. What else does he do well? Get open in zone coverage. Once again that was on full display. The reason for him getting so many balls isn't because Joe Flacco has a secret crush on him, it is because he's the only guy that knows how to get himself open. That's been Dennis Pitta his whole career and that hasn't fluctuated.

We'll just have to agree to disagree about our stances on Watson and Pitta.

Looks like neither of us are changing our opinion on this, regardless I think Pitta and Watson will be cut at some point, just depends on when for me. The Ravens need to live in die by the young guys and neither of those two will offer the ability to do that. 

I will address this, on the topic of Pitta's consistency, that's what he has been his whole career, ok fair, what about this past season? After his best game of the season against Miami he managed a poor 4 catches for 18 Yards against New England. After that it was 2 catches for 16 yards against Philadelphia. After that he had a flurry of inflated targets against Pitt and Cincy on plays that really didn't get the Ravens much. 

I don't believe in his ability to get open on zone coverage because he didn't beat linebackers often. I think you're mistaking those plays he made that went for 3 or 4 yards as getting open when a lot of defenses in the NFL play a bend-but-don't break type of coverage (Just like ours) where they will take a TE getting a 3 yard gain over a WR getting a 30 yard play. 

On plays where Pitta gets targets, they have been largely ineffective, and I don't think anyone is saying that Joe has a crush on PItta, but when he gets pressure in his face, he tends to get tunnel vision and look for his safety blanket, that has always been Pitta but as we all know, those plays just were not effective for us. That's not what I would define as getting open, that's a play in which the TE either sits on his route or the defense sits on their play and wait for the TE to make the catch and then proceed upon the tackle, which is what we saw, a ton. 

Again, that's just me addressing your comments, I don't feel like this is going to change our opinions, I still believe both guys are going to get cut, it just depends on when. 

I honestly view Claiborne as a fall back option. If we don't get the CB we want in the draft than we have him to rely upon. Still think we should invest one highly because him and Jimmy struggle to stay healthy, in the end I think this can make picking a pass rusher/WR our two biggest needs if/when Claiborne is signed. 

This is going to be a very tough draft, I don't know if I want to select a CB over a WR. 

3 hours ago, lgcs27288 said:

Lets not get too far ahead of ourselves. BK hasnt even played a down yet. BW is good but hes not Ngata.

I don't think we should either but I think BK is going to be a damn good player, I personally think that had it not been for age he would have gone much earlier. Motor, athleticism, long frame, 2 dimensional player overall. I think he has loads of potential here and his issues are certainly fixable, I hope he manages to stay healthy. 

15 hours ago, EdTheMythicalOne said:

Hard work and dedication can't overcome Father Time. I am sure he is working to get himself back into the best shape he possible can. He's been carrying heavy loads over his 30's and guys don't suddenly turn back the clock unless they are Barry Bonds and get some "help" to do so.

Pitta broke the same hip twice. It is no wonder he's not quite the same guy that he was.

I agree that when the Ravens signed Watson it was with the full expectation that he'd be the number one. At that time of his signing, nobody knew if Pitta would even be able to step on the field again.

Steve Smith Sr. wasn't the same Steve Smith that he was, I think everybody knew that. He was still good, but he obviously had lost a little something.

I just simply don't think Ben Watson has a whole lot left to offer entering age 37 now and coming off of his injury. I am sure some team will give him a chance based on his history. If he proves me wrong so be it. I am under the impression that you are that we need to focus on the future of the position now and that is Maxx Williams first and foremost. I don't see Boyle as anything other than a supplemental blocker. Gillmore has a chance to be a starter again if healthy, but Maxx is a better athlete. Waller could be an option if he ever puts it all together but so far he's been unimpressive.

The reason why a lot of RBs burnt out by their mid-30s is because they wear out a lot by the high volume of carries, a guy like Watson who sprung in that age where RBs hit a hard decline peaked late because they have a lot less wear and tear. He got a 2YR deal worth 7M at the age of 35, I'm sure the Ravens knew his age before signing him to that deal, but the truth is that Watson had plenty left in the tank. Also, because of the torn Achilles it doesn't mean that Father Time is going to strike him right now, it might very well do so the next season but that doesn't mean it will happen now. That said, in the end I think Watson will be released however if the Ravens decide not to release him and give him a shot at TC then I will very much approve of that decision. Not to mention Watson is a superb blocking TE. He offers those two dimensions on the TE position and I feel like we really missed out on it. I really wish he never had that injury.

 On the case of Steve Smith Sr. I disagree, he looked really good in his return, he had 800 yards receiving but lets not forget he practically missed 3 games( Exited early vs Washington, missed Giants & Jets). Its very possible that he could have accumulated 1,000 yards and match the type of season that he had when he first came here. If he did lose a step, which is a statement that's valid, then it was probably 1/3rd of a step. 

I just flat out don't think Pitta can be a consistent contributor in this offense. TE's are a big part of what the Ravens want to do on offense but I feel like another receiving option would sort of fade Pitta away. TEs in a west coast offense run a variety of slant, drag, and crossing patterns where the TE meets head on with a linebacker and more often than not, Pitta did not win that battle. The lack of stand-out players forced Joe to look towards Pitta way more than need be, Pitta had 86 receptions on the year which led all TEs, but how many of them were effective compared to the top TE's? I would much rather have someone with less receptions and bigger and more effective plays if you ask me. Yeah, he had those two hip injuries and that's unfortunate, but it happened, it robbed him of his athleticism and his skills. I don't think either of those are ever coming back to him. I think it's possible it returns for Watson, as I said he's a very athletic TE, he sometimes looks like a WR when lined up in the slot. I think his physical play to go along with his athleticism can still make him a very effective player. I think he can shock some people and I really wouldn't be mad if we kept him because as it stands right now, the Ravens don't have someone who can be a receiving threat and a blocker, or to put into better words a 3 down TE. Right now, I'd rather take Watson over Pitta if we're talking about keeping a vet. 

46 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Tackle market has essentially dried up with Fluker signing a one year deal with NY. Have to wonder what the plan is there for the Ravens.

I think there's someone they really like in the draft. Rather upsetting because I wanted us to go full on out on Center. The Ravens options are really limited on offense right now, they're going to have to make some difficult decisions come draft time and I think that's going to involve CB/Pass Rusher. 

I know Zrebeic said he wouldn't touch a WR in the 1st but lets think about this, you lost Wagner, you lost Steve Smith Sr, and now you lose Dixon for four games. You added Woodhead which offsets the loss of Dixon but what did you add to the team? Personally, if Williams or Davis is there, I'm not wasting time, I'm straight up going for it and picking either one of them. 

51 minutes ago, B-more Ravor said:

By all reports we DID pursue him. He either decided he'd rather play in NE or they offered a better deal (or both).

I think it's both, either way I'm not too bothered by this. 5M a year for Guy isn't worth it and I honestly think he crashed towards the end of the year. I think I would be fine with relying on Urban and Kafusi to step it up. 

9 hours ago, EdTheMythicalOne said:

Ben Watson is aging and now coming off of a serious leg injury and when I think of a vertical threat TE, Ben Watson does not come to mind. I think more of Ed Dickson or Darren Waller if they both could catch. It is one thing to do it for one game. Watson is a very good TE so please don't think I am saying he stinks. He gets open, he can catch well, but at this stage of his career I don't think he's got much left in the tank, especially after the injury.

In fact if you look at Pitta's numbers before his injury they match up with Watson's. I am speaking of YPC. Pitta also has a longer longest reception (61 yards more than Watson's best (46). Pitta also had a 7TD season prior to his injury which is a touch under Watson's best of 8.

I think we signed Watson because nobody thought Pitta would ever be healthy and Watson is a quality target. I am sure he was available because other teams wondered what a then 35 year old TE would have left in the tank. Now he will be 37 next season coming off of a serious leg injury. If he gets a job it might have to come somewhere else. It is a shame though, I would have liked to see what he could do here last season.

I think he's shown there's plenty of tread on this tires. He really didn't hit his stride until his early 30s so I can't say for sure that he's done now. He works hard and I'm sure he's rehabbing viciously, though I think his time here is done thats not to say that his career is, guy has tremendous athleticism even at his age. 

I can't say much about Pitta's athleticism, he struggled to break tackles and separate against MLBs, I personally believe that had Watson been healthy he would have taken over as the team's #1 TE, there were even reports out there that said that Watson was emerging was the TE group and was on pace to become the #1TE. 

I think its possible for Watson to regain that, I mean we saw Steve Smith Sr. rebound quickly from an Achilles tear, though that's Steve Smith Sr. I'm throwing out as an example, I personally believe that speaks to Watson's work ethic and determination, it's really great and I think that play he made famous for against the Broncos in the 2006 AFC Divisional showed a hint of that. He never stops working. I don't think the same is Pitta to the full extent. Yeah, I think Pitta's comeback shows his strong work ethic as well but I don't think it shows that he has the ability to get vertical or separate from linebackers anymore, in fact I think it shows the complete opposite. 

Personally, I wonder just how much Pitta has left. His stats were heavily over inflated by targets and I think the Bengals game paints a small illustration of that, he made those catches when he needed to but how many of them went for more than 10 yards? Not enough of them. I imagine that if someone else emerge from the TE and WR group, then he will be left behind. I hope he proves me wrong but I believe in the former and that he's not going to be all that effective. 

I don't want to turn this into a Pitta vs Watson debate, but I think the Ravens should live and die by their young TE group, they've done it before with Todd Heap and it seems like they're doing it with Perriman, they should honestly do it with Pitta and the TEs. 

16 hours ago, EdTheMythicalOne said:

Ben Watson isn't a vertical buy, Nick Boyle isn't a vertical guy, Crockett Gillmore isn't a vertical guy. Maxx Williams might be, and Darren Waller possibly could be if his hands were better. So what was the right decision? Getting rid of the best tight end you currently have with the best hands on the team?

 That's just not true. Ben Watson is certainly the vertical type of TE. That's probably a big reason why we signed him in the 1st place, he showed that in his time in New Orleans where consistently attacked the deep middle of coverage's. Look at his game against the Falcons, he was killing them on those type of plays. Now compare that to Pitta's best of the year vs Miami where he got a lot of his production from YAC and short/crossing patterns. Huge difference.

Now, I got love for Pitta, but there are some numbers out there that will show you that he really didn't do quite as good as the numbers say. I think his YAC and YPP is up there in the bottom of the league. I think that paints a picture that he really isn't as great as some believe him to be. 

56 minutes ago, Tyler said:

That's not to say that they don't draft a Mike Williams or a Corey Davis in the first round to pair with him. Or if not the 1st, Zay Jones, Juju Smith-Schuster, and so on in other rounds. Signing a Jeffrey or a Pryor to a 1 year deal wouldn't make sense to me, honestly. Perriman has the measurables, draft a guy to pair with him and see if this team can actually DEVELOP a group of wide receivers for a change. 

I personally think that if Mike Williams or Cory Davis is there, then they become Ravens. I think the draft is an option but I feel like they really wanted a Vet here, just don't want to overpay guys they feel won't play at a high level. 

Right now, Perriman is the #1.

I think we can very well come away with Williams or Davis. Whomever I think the Ravens need to select a WR in either the 1st or 2nd round. 

2 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

He actually started more games in '14 than '15 and has been a regular contributor for three years now.

I'd hardly say the Cardinals have had a consistently good pass rush for Jefferson's career in the desert. And I'd also say he's not totally surrounded by help in the secondary. 

I really don't understand knocking this move.

You're not getting a CB like a Stephon Gilmore or AJ Bouye, might as well go for the next best thing and that is a great safety. We need to surround this team with as much great talent in the secondary as possible if Jimmy were to go down to injury. 

Well I don't think anything major will be done at WR. I think the team is putting way too much on Perriman's plate, if you want to rely on him as the #2 then fine, but at the moment he's sort of the #1 of the team. He's going to demand more targets and they're going to force him the targets nessecary to play as a #1. I really think Mike Wallace is a good #2 but I don't think the way he ended the season indicates that he should be the #1 guy going forward. I think the Ravens really believe that Perriman is going to be star in this league and are going to roll the dice big time on his potential.

I don't think the Ravens made the right decision. They need a TE who can get vertical and Pitta is just not that type of guy at the moment. His weakness are too big to overcome. 

9 hours ago, ellicottraven said:

What loyalty? He got paid the most money by the Ravens and he didn't have to move his family. That's typically reason enough and doesn't necessarily constitute loyalty. It's just more convenient in terms of knowing the system, knowing the teammates, etc.

2 hours ago, The Raven said:

Yes, extremely loyal. That's why he asked for more money than Damon Harrison and looked for it elsewhere. It was all about loyalty.

Loyalty was Yanda taking less than he was worth in 2010(?) to stay and Webb taking a pay cut. That's what loyalty looks like.

Brandon Williams made rounds of trips to other teams and very likely got higher offers. He very likely chose to stay at a reduced price and refused to sign deals that were offered to him that very likely would've made him the highest paid verbatim. 

On the topic of Webb, he was sort of forced to take a pay cut because it's unlikely that someone will pay him more than what he was making. He also took a very high payroll not to long ago, I'm sure when the time comes around BW will be very willing to take a reduced pay cut. 

On the topic of Yanda, no debating that, but Yanda already got his pay day prior, he was entering his 2nd round of FA where he was going to get paid, at age 28 this is BW first and last opportunity and really getting a pay day. 

Are the Bengals rebuilding? I mean sheesh they've had a rough Free Agency losing two starters both of whom are top three at their respective positions. Jeez I mean you can't do worse. 

Stopping the run has historically been the Ravens priority on defense. I mean Tony Siragusa, Sam Adams, Haloti Ngata are the guys who come to mind. If you can't stop the run then you're going to be in trouble against the pass no matter how good your secondary is. The Ravens would've taken a huge step back on defense if Jernigan and others carried their play onto next season, they need someone to step up before letting go of BW and no one stepped up to the plate. 

I think some of you guys are forgetting just how awful Jernigan and Guy looked towards the end of the season. Timmy Jernigan did not record a single sack in the final 7 games of the season. None. He went three straight games during the final four games of the season where he did not record a stat and the final game of the year, he recorded a single tackle, that was was all. In the case of Lawrence Guy, he over - pursued way too often in the run game, began to get mauled, and didn't rip blocks consistently and allowed for a lot of outside runs in his direction. 

I mean even Suggs didn't even look like himself out there. Don't get me wrong, I know that he still means a lot to this team but during that last four stretch he even in the run game he was having trouble as well. 

IMO, had Jernigan consistently kept up his play, it would be him that's cashing in big time. The conclusion a lot of people are reaching is that keeping him might not be in the cards but if he continues to show that he cannot play at a high level for a whole season, then I don't think its going to cost a whole lot to keep him. 

15 minutes ago, hen826957 said:

They gonna have to keep Mosley. He's a center piece of the defense. I rather keep Mosley than Jernigan. 

They have the 5th year option on Mosley which they will certainly pick up, think he's definitely part of the teams future. No question he's a Raven for a long time. 

Brandon Williams is an awesome guy man. Worked so hard to return here and showed so much loyalty to an organization, fans, and city knowing very well of the NFL business structure. Mad props to him. Got a lot of love for someone like that.