PurpleCity5

He played plenty of Strong Safety as well but he was underwhelming there. Also as The Raven said you still have to know how to cover reguardless of where you are at, whether it was at FS or SS he did not demonstrate he could do that. I'll honestly never forget that play that he competely whiffed on against Cleveland two years ago. I think it was Taylor Gabriel who caught a deep bomb from Brian Hoyer and fell to the ground right in front of Elam, did not even get touched clearly and Elam just stands there like a statue, and lets Gabriel get up and run for an extra 20 yards. Seeing that play got me totally heated, my raw reaction was like "GUAAHHHHGHHGDGAST" are you kidding me? Like how can you let that happen?!" Whatever, thats in the past but I'll never forget just how pissed off I was

I used to think that Wagner was just an okay run blocker but I looked into some numbers and he might be better than what some of us believe. On runs through the right tackle, Wagner ranked 15th, not great but it ranked as our best with runs though the middle/guard, LT, and left end ranking behind. On runs through the right end however, the Ravens were #1 in the league and very effective in that area. I know these numbers might not be a huge deal considering that the Ravens mostly ran it through the middle and began running plays threw the left end more towards the end of the season, but I just think these numbers show that Wagner is pretty effective as a run blocker. I agree in Williams case to a point, but the guys next to him were completely underwhelming, it would be easier to move on from him if Jernigan and Guy weren't so bad towards the end of the year. I know Football outsiders catch some criticism, but I don't really have access to a PFF subscription.

I think it's possible that we can do all that, certainly, we'll have to make the cap purge but as it stands we can sign one of the Williams or Wagner right now, make the cuts and we can sign both alongside Mangold and a Vet WR who isn't expensive but isn't too cheap either.

Yep, I want him bad and I very much anticipate the Ravens are going to go hard after him. It makes way too much sense, perfect fit for this OL and what they want to do, still has plenty left in the tank, a mauler, physical, both qualities which the Ravens want really badly. Sell him hard on contending in the twilight years of high career, and if Nick Mangold arrives in the Ravens facility they cannot let him leave, go on shutdown mode and lock every door if you have to lol.

I understand that, but those guys could give the Ravens a pass and re-sign if the difference is below is a mil if they're wanted and feel like a apart of the teams future. Sometimes guys might not feel like the million or below difference might not be as big of a deal as going to a team like the Cleveland Browns or Jacksonville Jaguars where you will be stressed out of your mind. The Ravens have their limits on how much they can pay their guys, and other teams go beyond that, so if it comes down to both leaving then as you said, it's business.

I think the team would much rather prefer leaving Lewis at LG than moving him to RT, they feel really good about Lewis as a potential pro-bowl LG and think he can definitely have a future there. I personally view Williams as the more valuable player, a NT is pretty important to a defense like our own and some teams don't value RT as much as the other positions on the line, they're the least paid of their group, of the ten highest paid OL, only one right tackle ranks in the top 10 in pay roll, that being Lane Johnson who got the extra boost in salary because he's expected to make the move to LT soon. That said, I won't discount Wagner's important neither will I bypass what a great RT can do for an OL. I think losing Wagner would still hurt dearly if we degrade badly from him. Lose both Williams and Wagner and I think the team could regress next season.

To be honest with you, I think losing Brandon Williams could be a big blow to this defense. I don't know anyone behind him who can step up and the guys next to him, Timmy Jernigan and Lawrence Guy looked bad in their final weeks. They were gassed and I'm questioning right now if Timmy Jernigan is a guy who can be effective for a whole season. If we lose Brandon Williams and the guys who played next to them carry on their play from the last few weeks onto next season then I think the Ravens defense might have a new problem and it won't be with the secondary. In Wagner's case they might need him almost as bad as BW, the team is going to be cutting ties with Zuttah, if you lose Wagner then that's two spots on the OL you need to fill. The OL needs as much time to gel and as much continuity as possible in order to be up there with some of the leagues best, losing him would be bad, losing both guys would be a big blow to this team and I honestly think it could be so bad that it could set us back from contention. I very much think so emotions are involved, if you're a player like BW, this is the peak of your FA. You want to feel wanted, this is the case for a lot of guys. The Ravens started this by calling him the best NT in the league or something like that. I've seen so many times in a headline where a player felt like he got low-balled on a deal or felt unwanted because a team didn't try hard enough to keep him. That's pretty much the case if the Ravens go hard after a Tony Jefferson for $7M knowing they have BW and Wagner in FA. Pay up for a guy like that and both of them might feel like they're no longer needed by the team and will look elsewhere.

A NT or RT isn't winning you a title but I think both guys know that they're important pieces of the team. I think we all do as well and there's lots of talk about what losing an RT would do to this OL and how bad it would be for us. Losing a NT like Williams when other guys on the line played awful in the final weeks is a fairly big deal, I think Damon Harrison has had a tremendous impact on the Giants and I feel that Williams could match that, so while neither guys are winning us a title, they're certainly going to help us build towards that route. KO wanted to get paid, but he also wanted to be felt like he was needed, now there's conflicting reports out there but I can recall Ian Rappaport saying that the Ravens really wanted to keep KO and were willing to make him the 2nd highest paid player on offense. I don't know if this is true but I really think we would have liked to keep KO and felt that if we have a bit more cap space to function under and made an aggressive move on him and lets say fall a million short, than I think he could've stayed. Of course that makes this discussion meaningless because we didn't have the space for it, but I definitely think keeping your interest on guys keeps them listening to you.

Correction, it's actually about $10M in savings if both are cut, but I still believe that means that Pitta is a cut, but I don't think he's the only cut that's being made, I think Doom will join him. that's 10M in cap space that can be put to really good use. The June 1st cut isn't really used often in the NFL and for plenty of reasons, the Ravens themselves don't use it often. As for Doom, it's tough to come back from an injury like that. He didn't look like himself and it's tough to comeback from an injury like that, I think that coupled with the savings just means his time is done here. He's not staying with that cap number, if he takes a paycut I wouldn't be upset but it would have to be a drastic one because he's not trending upward IMO.

I get what you mean, I just wanted to state my personal opinion on the Ravens adding another safety since it's so popular. I think Wagner and Williams caring about the Ravens interest does matter. They might not be too happy if the team isn't fully focuesed on retaining them and we've seen stuff like that happen all across the league. K.O himselfed felt low-balled and disrespected by the Ravens not being as competitive as he hoped for and while they couldn't afford it, the fact that happened sort of effected his decision. When he saw the Raiders continued interest in him, it definitely got him on board.

Cutting Doom before the draft would give you potentially the necessary cap space to sign his replacement, so I honestly think it's best if we do it now before the draft. Also, there's no guarantee that the guy you want to have on your team is going to be there. Doom and Pitta cap savings combined is 12M, there's no way the Ravens don't put that into use via FA. It's best if they're both cut now as opposed to the draft.

Doom is gone unless a pay cut is there. This team needs to just force themselves to get younger and better off the edge. At 33 and coming off a Achilles tear(and he looked awful when returning onto the field) there's just not a lot of confidence you can have in him. I'm iffy on him accepting the vet because he might make a lot more on the open market and wouldn't have a reason staying on a team for less money that he might not feel would contend for a SB. Personally, I think he's out.

If he takes a pay cut then I think that might rule out Tony Jefferson. Webb was pretty good in coverage but what I also thought he excelled at was tackling, he was able to bring down TEs effectively and having two good tackling safeties is very valuable. Webb should be relied upon if he takes a pay cut unless he's really bad in TC. ' I like Tony Jefferson but Arizona is very high on keeping him, I wouldn't want to see the Ravens get into a bidding war over another teams FA with Wagner and Williams on the block. I could see them easily getting upset with the Ravens if they get into a bidding war with Jefferson but not become competitive with their offers.

I think the big issue on the offensive end was Red-zone scoring, I love Tucker but the offense made him look too good, they need to keep him off the field sometimes. I would like to point out that while the Ravens were good at avoiding 3 and outs, they surely did not do a good job of obtaining 1st downs ranking 26th in the league in that category, you can find all of the worst offensive teams in the league in that group. I think the issue is still the Ravens not being able to sustain Drives, especially in situations where they got good field position, something we saw too many times.

He would have to take a pay-cut but why would he be a back-up? He was pretty good overall and had a top-5 coverage grade in the final 6 weeks of the season. I think Webb was one of the guys who contributed largely to the secondary in the 1st half of the season. IMO Webb has been catching too much flack this season.

I don't know about a pay-cut, I think they're going to just flat out cut him. You got a group of young(Yes, unproven guys) that you invested so much into, time to see who steps up. Not to mention that as others have said and I totally agree with this, Joe is becoming too reliant on Pitta and needs to spread the ball around. I am a fan of Pitta and will never forget what he did for the Ravens and the memories he gave us fans, but it might be time to move on.

It wouldn't be great to lose Guy, if Williams walk than I don't think he returns, with that said towards the end of the year he did not do a good job at all. I couldn't decide who was worse, him or Jernigan. Guy is still a very solid player and I would like to keep him around, but I think the FO would be content to let him go. It would help keep Jernigan who IMO might not be expensive to retain if he doesn't keep his motor running during the season.

For the record, I really like Aiken and think the guy is underrated, but going back to the film this season, I noticed, he sometimes couldn't separate even on one-on-one coverage and even had trouble beating LBs on slant patterns from the slot. That seemed to follow him this year and even last year he had trouble with that. Steve Smith Sr. and Mike Wallace coming in surely didn't help that problem. I don't think Joe looked away from Aiken intentionally, when a guy isn't getting open or making plays then it's tough to look his way in critical moments.

I don't think that means he will leave if the difference between us and another team is short of a million. I think he just wants enough to secure a future for himself and his family, what he said might sound like he'll go to the highest bidder but I don't think that's completely the case. As long as the Ravens pursue and continue to show interest, and pay him like a top 5 NT, then I think he'll return. Unless the difference between us and another team is beyond a million.

Yeah, I've seen that around, what would the cap implications be if we do trade for him, I know Phil would have to pay him part of his salary but I don't think the year one cap hit will be sizable. He does have a cap hit of $10M though for 2018 so I honestly think a cut would be the best route for us.

Oh wow, that's interesting. I wonder how much we're willing to give up.

I like Barwin, he was a top pass rusher along with Doom in 2014 and I don't think he's too far away from what he used to be capable of. I like him here. I read that he has suitors so I don't know how much we can pay up.

I think he will fall to us. I think Marlon Humphrey's is going to do better in the combine and I think teams will view Sidney Jones as the better prospect and look past Lattimore's injury history, if so they're going to lose out because we're going to be a lucky team if we get Wilson here. I think he's going to be a really good CB.

I think he'll be a great fit here. Here's another name, what about Arthur Jones? I know he's disappointed Indy since signing there and he's had injury plagued seasons here as well but when healthy he was pretty good, I personally think he would be a really good low cost signing if we managed to lose Lawrence Guy.

I don't think anyone is paying Mangold big money and if the difference in money between us and let's say a team like the Jaguars is minimal, than I think he'll opt for joining the Ravens. Ngata split time at NT and DE during his time here. When Brandon Williams emerged back in 2014 Ngata played more DE but prior to that he split time and played a bit more NT than DE. If Williams leave he'll likely push Pierce for that NT role.