PurpleCity5

Most disappointing aspect of the Pitta situation is the amount of effort they put into TE. I think you have to live or die by those young guys at TE, it's time to move on from Pitta.

Really imagined that Marshall, and Wagner were options. Now it seems like Juice and Wagner are gone. The Ravens spent time talking to their own guys who appeared out, you have to wonder how much time they spent with others. Pryor and Alshon are out of the question. They're not spending upwards of 10M on someone like that. Mangold I could absolutely see here.

This sucks, I really loved this board a lot. So many great convo's we all had here. I'll miss you all.

Absolutely, the Ravens still have enough cap to pull off some moves but time is running out. Some guys who they would have really like to keep are gone.

Yeah, I just hope this move turns into a big signing here. I would have amnesia about Williams and Wagner if we managed to pull off bringing Zeitler or Lang here. Doubtful either happens but just think of the scenarios... That said the team spoke so highly of Lewis so that factor alone might rule out either of those two.

I really think Zeitler, Lang, Warford, and Leary are better. I would honestly take any of those four over Wagner for us. You were right though so no debating this anymore, just think FA factored huge into this, I wonder what would have happened if Cannon had entered the mix. Still think Wagner gets paid.

I'm upset at the decision to keep Pitta. The Ravens are beating a dead horse and seriously cannot anticipate Pitta getting better going onto next year. Oh, believe me I would love to see him prove me wrong but he was very underwhelming for the most part. I honestly think he's one of the factors holding this offense back.

I can see that scenario, Marcus Cannon surely would've entered as the #1 RT. At the same times I think it's entirely possible Wagner still would have gotten paid.

I suspect that BW is on the move as well. Don't think he stays here.

You were right about it. I was holding onto him staying because I imagined at what happened to Schwartz and literally thought that it was possible. I'm still really confused at why Wagner lucked out and Schwartz didn't. I'm sure Marcus Cannon imagined the same because he got low balled on his contract, he has to be kicking himself right now because he easily could have have made a push for 10M.

Glad we didn't pay Garcon, I don't think that deal is worth it considering he's heading towards a huge downgrade. I really hope we emerge as a suitor for Britt.

I think there's a lot of impact to be had in someone who can rush on the opposite side such as a guy like DeMarcus Ware. Ware allows for Miller to have more 1v1, not have to deal with as many chip blocks or overloaded protection on the right side or which ever side he chooses to rush from. I look at it from a similar situation to ours, Doom is a great pass rusher, but he's so much better with Suggs on the other side of the field. To be honest, I don't think the left side of the OL did a good job either. I don't think most or even all of it weighs on the right side because Michael Oher was getting destroyed that day. I personally think people discount the impact of DeMarcus Ware. Miller is a super-star but this year when Ware was out, it showed that he declined a little bit, though the sack numbers paint a different picture he went four straight games without a sack and faced constant double and triple teams. Ware got 2 sacks from the left side as well. In fact the Panthers allowed 7 sacks all together, really bad game for that entire unit.

WR I want most now is Britt, I feel that he will not only be the cheapest but skill wise is the best on the market, alongside the best fit, though I have my doubts.

I think B.W still deserves credit though. It's huge for a team when you can stop the run on 1st and 2nd down. It's even bigger when you can completely shut down an opposing teams run game. He's not up to par with the top DL in the pass rush department, but having a guy who can take a Center and Guard and cannot be moved and stop the run is a huge deal. Thing is that the Ravens are really good at finding those type of guys so I'll put my trust in them.

Those contracts are beloted but here's some examples I would throw out. Eugene Monroe, Mitchell Schwartz, are Bryan Bulaga guys who played at a high level entering the FA and demanded huge money. These guys all made their arguement and many were valid, teams just flat out turned them down even though most of them probably needed them badly. Thing is the value of a RT position just isn't that high. It's not high enough to warrant a 10M salary. As far as Kruger and McPhee goes, a pass rusher is going to get paid. Especially guys like McPhee and Kruger who honestly warranted high pay days. McPhee can't stay healthy but when on the field last season he was pretty productive. I think the value matters, a pass rusher is always going to win out over a RT nine times out of ten. The value of overpaying a OLB/WR is far greater than that of overpaying a RT.

Teams have needs but they know when to not pay way too much for someone. I'm sure someone needed Mitchell Schwartz but no way were they giving him 10M. In terms of relocation, obviously that's thrown away if the difference between the Ravens and others is in millions, but if not then I think there's a decent chance he returns if the gap is minimal.

If the Ravens are in the troubling cap situation that they're in at the moment, then they really should pay close attention to value. What's hurting them right now is bad deals for guys who are not playing up to their deals.

$10M for Wagner is outrageous. I really want to know who is willing to pay that much. That is nearly 4M more than the highest paid RT(Outside of Lane). If the RT market is expected to blow up in that sense, then they could go up towards being the 2nd highest compensated group in the NFL, that's a position that's not even valued as highly as others. I stand firm on $7M-8M and I think its possible that he returns on $7.5M if he doesn't find the stress of relocating to a new team/city and a rebuilding team worth it if the Ravens guarantees matches whomever.

If Wagner leaves for big money, it's not because they Ravens couldn't afford it, it's simply because they don't see value in overpaying for a RT. They were willing to make K.O the highest paid G in the NFL and he left because he had bigger offers, they saw a ton of value in K.O but flat out were not able to keep him. If possible I guaranteed you that the Ravens would have made a bigger push to keep K.O if they had more cap room.

On the case of Wagner I think its good to have a great pass protecting RT, I don't think he's a mediocre run blocker either. While he's not the nastiest guy out there nor is he the best he does maintain his blocks time-to-time, I do see your point, if we're overpaying for an OL give me Zietler over Wagner in a heartbeat, but I'm afraid Zietler is the far more likely candidate for a monster payday than Wagner. In Williams case I can see the Ravens desperation to keep him. Timmy Jernigan and Lawrence Guy were dreadful during the final stretch, I think Jernigan went four games straight without recording a single stat. Guy on the other hand got caught over-pursuing on runs, missing gaps, and got taken out of plays time to time. If those two carry there play from that stretch onto next season and no one steps up and you lose BW, then the run D might be in big trouble. Still don't think its worth it because I'd rather just try my best to find a replacement but I could see the Ravens case for pushing hard to keep both. I look at it from a value standpoint honestly. What's the value of paying Wagner 10M+? Not that great if that RT isn't a game-changer like a LT or even LG can be. I honestly can see the value in someone who can stuff the run, but in 40% of plays that he's not on the field, it can honestly hurt a team. With that said, if it were such a big problem, then I don't think the Ravens would be that interested in bringing BW back. There may not be value in stuffing NT, but there is certainly value in being able to stop 1st and 2nd run plays. I think we're going to be really surprised. Either Wagner and Williams get a monster payday, or maybe they don't and return here.

I feel like these guys are stating the obvious and I've seen this before. Yes, if guys hit the FA market its very possible the Raven lose them...

That's my opinion on Wagner, I think he's an important player because its better to have a great RT than a bad RT but with that said, I think Alex Lewis or who ever the replacement is might not be a big drop off considering that the value of a RT isn't really at an All-time high right now. On the subject of K.O, I just translated what I recalled, I didn't realize that DeCastro and Long's deals were signed after K.O's, what you did say makes a lot of sense and I might be wrong about that.

Oh I agree, I absolutely think that's possible but at the same time, when the Ravens say competitive offers, what do they mean by that? They weren't willing to make K.O the highest paid guard in the NFL and they said that the offers they gave to K.O were defined as "competitive". I really want to know the Ravens definition of competitive. When the Ravens say competitive, I think it means that they gave him offers that align for what a great RT makes on the market, that being between the $6-7M range, so its possible they offered him 7M or somewhere below that mark, that said that makes no sense because if you're that far apart with Wagner, why not just close the gap and prevent him from hitting FA? Maybe the Ravens envision a scenario similar to Schwartz where his market value decreased and they gain more leverage than previously had. Personally, I think that no one is offering him $10M, but the reports out there must have pushed him to test FA, that said I don't think he even passes the 8M mark and I don't think the Ravens offered him more than $7M at most.

The Mitchell Schwartz example is exactly what I've been pointing to as well. He was seen as the an elite tackle and No.2 overall RT on the market and no one really went crazy for him, this was after Von Miller dominated RT en route to his SB MVP award. What I've noticed is that a lot of these reporters come to the conclusion that just because someone is hitting the market, that he's gone. I could recall that when Eugene Monroe hit the FA market a lot of guys including Aaron Wilson came to the conclusion that he was gone. That really didn't happen. Truth is these guys would be foolish not to test the market, unless Wagner/Williams were so turned off by what they were offered that they didn't even want to listen to the Ravens offers and decided to just leave it at the forgone conclusion that they're out. I think the Ravens are going to wait it out and see what the value of Wagner and Williams is. Maybe teams won't really value a run stuffing NT who isn't a game changer as a pass rusher, or maybe they like the guard prospect more than the RT. I think it's the waiting game between the Ravens and Wagner/Williams.

I don't think cap space is the problem because they're trying to keep Brandon Williams who costs much more than Wagner. So unless they are trying to keep both Williams and Wagner or have Williams as the higher priority, then I personally think the Ravens did not offer Wagner to be the highest paid RT in the league. If they done so he would have re-signed already.