billiejean

9 hours ago, bigcatfrank1 said:

All tight ends do not have his speed.
Also, he has more muscle weight, than heavy weight, at least it appears that way. Which may mean he could slim down in the upper body without losing his legs.
And yes The guy would do what he is asked if that is what is best for the team and it was a reasonable approach.

I don't know enough about his physical make up to really know, so thats that. But it is possible, that I do know. but most times not probable.

Traditional TE's are expected to provide a good portion of blocking, and a portion of short route plays. So they do not run up and down the field half as much as a traditional WR. They are often husky, tall and very strong.

Gronk is not used as a traditional TE that was my point. However he does not have the speed that Howard has. To expect the Ravens to go the TE "Gronk" way with Howard would be unlikely. They will keep Pitta. So that leaves the Slot Reciever/Slant/ #3 position at huge need.

That is why I say make him a WR. Its my opinion, I know Im outside the box. But coming out of college, that is the time to do it, if he is going to do it at all.

Frank I can assure you that there isn't even a small chance that he is going to do that.  You are not thinking outside the box. You are thinking outside the realm of possibility.  Although it is physically possible no team would ever ask him to do that.  A 250 TE would not ever be asked to loose 20 pounds.  It is not a "reasonable approach" for him or the team.  He weighs 250 pounds with 10 percent body fat.  That means he has 25 pounds of fat (assuming fat is what you mean by "heavy weight") on his body.  It is dangerous to go below 7 or 8 percent so he would have to loose some muscle if he were to drop.  Frank it is clear you are new to the game and that is great.  Its an exciting sport, but continuing to try to validate your bizarre statements isn't going to expound upon your knowledge of the game.  Even your ideas about muscle mass and weight training are bizarre.  "slim down in the upper body without losing legs" "more muscle weight than heavy weight" Cmon man. The terminology you are using isn't even close to being correct.  You are the only person that refers to fat as "heavy weight" and offensive lineman as the "middle 5"

12 hours ago, BMoreDuck said:

Where did you see that Davis runs a 4.8 40? There are analysts who believe he is a 4.4/4.5 guy.

my bad guy that was a typo. It is 4.48

2 hours ago, bioLarzen said:

2 hours ago, whobilly said:

If Pierce wore #99 we wouldn't miss a beat. Basically the same player. If somebody is stupid enough to give you a #3 pick in this years deep draft pool I'd take it.

I say let's wait one more season before pencilling in Pierce as the next big thing. I'm not hating on him of course - it's just that oftentimes the sophomore season radically differs from the rookie season... Se Za'Darius Smith, for example. Season #3 is the read indicator. Mosley had a Pro Bopwl rookie season - followed up by a much less convingcing sophomore season. Luckily, he followed it up with a very good 3rd season.
We'll see how Pierce does. Or Za'Darius, for that matter...

Z Smith is in a totally different boat than Pierce or Mosely. He didn't have a good rookie year. It just looks like that because he had 5.5 sacks. But they came on stunts and good coverage. He was also terrible at setting the edge that year which he improved on a little bit last year. If he wants to be a good pass rusher he needs some moves, otherwise he is going to get cast into that Courtney Upshaw role. Mosley and Pierce were both some of the best players that came out of their respective draft classes. Z would not make that list. Although your point still stands though. Sometime players have a sophomore slump. RG3 would be the poster boy for that. Some guys that Im looking for this season are C. Davis and M. Williams.  Their soph seasons were a wash.  But I am cautiously optimistic about their contributions this year.  

1 hour ago, bigcatfrank1 said:

it might not be a realistic assessment, some times weight can be adjusted out of college sometimes it cant. It is usually a focus of running backs primarily for the same reason i bring it up about Howard. let me re-state.

I think he might make a better Wide Receiver for the Ravens than a pure TE. What is interesting is there has only been a few 6'6" WR

reasons- first at 250 lbs+ running the field at that much weight will take its toll. less weight less wear and tear. Also it could improve his speed just a tad. But you are correct he has great speed, now, but will it last. That is why I think he could make a Wide Receiver being lighter.
second- The Ravens need a Wide Receiver not really a TE.
third - multi purpose use as I mentioned is a possibility.

middle 5 being - LT LG C RG RT I was trying to focus on the WR and play calling ability using a Slot receiver that has speed and size. A Gronkowski type of player. Howard could be that type of potential.
 

Than why don't all TEs loose weight to become WRs so that they cut down on the "wear and tear"? Wear and tear happens to big and small players and it has nothing to do with weight.  The guy isn't going to drop weight just because the Ravens need a WR and not a TE.  You are getting caught up with the label TE.  The Panthers took a WR in the first round of the 2014 draft who was 6'5" and 245.  Weight is also not a factor in being a successful multi purpose TE.  And this fact is highlighted when you bring up Gronk.  He is one of the most successful "multi purpose" (joker) TEs in the league and he weighs 265 lbs.

  13 hours ago, bigcatfrank1 said:

This guy needs to lose 15-25 pounds and maybe gain a few seconds of speed. At a 4.54 maybe he drops that to a 4.49. He would be a better suited as a WR in the NFL than TE if he can't block in college he certainly will struggle as a TE in the NFL. I wonder if at WR he could be a Marshal, Fitzgerald, Green, Jones or Jordy Nelson type of guy. But I think he needs to shed some weight. He could make himself one the tallest WR in the NFL.

So if he commits to drop some weight, he is available at 16 and the Ravens commit to make him a WR day one. I would take the kid. If he improves in blocking and later in his career the weight will be harder to keep off, he could move to TE/Slot/WR

Could you see as a play "set formation "-
Wallace WR - middle 5 - Pitta TE- Howard SLOT - Perriman WR - Flacco and Woodhead RB (single set ) in the backfield? Some call this a 2 tight end formation and it can be considered that because Pitta or Howard could go in motion and/or move to opposite sides. The difference is having 2 bigger, slower TE's, the Slot receiver is eliminated in most cases. WIth Howard as a Slot WR he utilizes his speed to be a big threat downfield,( aka Boldin, T Davis, Sterling)

This is definitely possible. Of course it means Joe has multiple plays at his disposal from this set formation: Quick Run, roll out, stretch, quick line pass, Screen, Draw, Deep crossing and middle slot. This is what NE does, if Garoppolo can do it Joe has got to be able to do it, he doesn't have to be Tom baby

In fact Waller is a perfect example of the same hybrid WR/TE/SLOT The Ravens could honestly make Howard and Waller the same type multi Slot receivers, and have this kid learn the playbook heavy to that style of pass play selection. Thus they have 2 Slot/WR/TE who can perform the same exact pass plays with excellent execution. Both can move downfield as WR, that is a big value.

it leaves the depth players for the same formation of Moore WR, Waller WR/ Slot /TE, Boyle TE, Gilmore TE ,Campanaro WR/Slot and Dixon RB even West RB. Here in lies the ability to use the bench in disguising the play from the same set.

The Ravens need to use the same base formation and adjust on the field to run multiple plays. Obviously using multiple base set formations is a must, however disguising and deceptive ability will be an advantage, this would be just one of the base formations.

But hey, guess you are glad im not coach.

Are you being serious Frank ? Cmon man this is just not a realistic assessment here. Why in the world would he commit to losing weight? The vast majority of TEs that come into the league need work on their blocking. Corey Davis runs a 4.8 forty. Mike Williams runs a 4.54. OJ runs a 4.51. What would be the purpose behind asking this guy to drop weight. He is just as fast as the top WRs in this years class. And what is the middle 5.

Wouldn't surprise me!

In fact I think this is one of the reasons we have not released Watson yet. Bottom line. Max is a bust. Waller is average. Gilmore is an average blocker only. Boyle showed promise but off the field issues. None of these names are game changers. However, if pair Pitta with Howard that will be a serious problem for any defense with speed at WR!

Pros
We need to control the middle of the field by a slot WR or TE. Howard would be featured in the slot alot with Pitta on the field spreading out linebackers for our run game.

A serious redzone threat!

Save 4-5 mil by cutting Watson.

I would be prepared to be surprised. There isn't one legitimate point in your cons list.

This article is silly.....that New England team goes to the Super Bowl almost every year and doesn't have any "divas" in their WR group. Just guys who run good routes and catch the ball.

The guy has trouble coming up with ideas. To be more specific realistic and or relevant ideas.

Why does Ryan do this? Very unlikely we take this guy. He did another profile which talked about Zach Banner in the 4th round. The guy is terrible but Ryan seemed to be impressed with his 370 pound frame. Lets get realistic. At least this will make Chuckxx9 happy. This ones for you Chuck.

3 hours ago, rossihunter2 said:

Well I think that's a little exaggerated - I've been kind and I've graded maybe 35-40 guys as first rounders

How do you determine which players get first round grades.  I ended up doing the exact opposite of that his year.  Ive never given grades, but in years past Ive tried to watch some tape in order to form an opinion on a lot of guys.  But this year I haven't allowed myself to watch one game tape because I think once I watch one I will get sucked down that rabbit hole.  i have watched some highlight tapes, but they really aren't good sources to determine a guys worth.  From that highlight tape I was really impressed with Zay Jones (and as I said the highlight tapes can be deceptive).  He has some of the most impressive body control that I have seen in a while.  He runs some nice routes as well. I would be  interested in knowing where he lines up in your receiver rankings?  

4 hours ago, balfan23 said:

Understood that we're not done yet. However, thus far the majority of the teams available resources have been expended on defense. Sure, we're going to try to address the obvious short-comings of these O line and WR positions, but we're going to end up having to do that somewhat on the cheap. The team does still have available resources through the draft, but by all accounts, the draft is very defense heavy and is short on offensive talent in the trenches. We could shock the world and go high at the WR position, but I'm not sure we can adequately address both areas via the draft. 

No doubt, we've seen this team pull off the "diamonds from the rough" moves in the past, but counting on that is a risky proposition. I still think the O line is the greatest area of worry. 

Yea I agree with the O line assessment.  I know feeling confident about FO decision making ability has gone out of style, but I have to think when they traded Zuttah that the FO was confident that they would be able to fill those voids some how.  I am sure they have a plan, and whole lot of back up plans to get some more beef in here.  And as long as none of those plans include bringing Jah Reid back into the fold, I have faith in the guys making decisions. 

8 hours ago, sizzlingdoom said:

In this draft, I'd probably do it for a 3rd as well. It would have to be in the top half of the 3rd though.
Getting as many picks in the 2-80 range in this draft is huge
On a related note, the browns have so many picks this draft and next year. Of course they've been a joke for so long, but that really might come to and end soon. They have a good coach, they just beefed up their oline nicely, and they might add Garret, Watson, and a lot more. There are bound to be a number of teams that just absolutely nail the first 3 rounds of this draft. It's going to go so far for the whole organization, for so long. Hopefully we're one of those teams

Still with you there doom.  I draw the line at 4 though.  Even if its a high 4, there would have to be some other forms of compensation if the highest picks we get are in the 4th.  I am pretty certain that the FO wouldn't let him go for that kind of pocket change though.  It looks like we are taking another one out of Bills book though. He did the same thing with two of his top linebackers last year.  It could be just a fad like the last one.  I dont think Marshall Yanda lined up in the slot at all last year. The Browns are going to be tough next year.  They picked Emmanuel Ogbuh in the early second last year and he kind of flew under the radar but he played well.  Him and Garret are going to be force.  And speaking of the LBs Bill traded last year, Jaime Collins signed a long term deal. There NT Sheldon really came into his own last year as well. But really its going to come down to QB play.  Very few QBs come in and light things up their rookie year like Dak did.  Hue got those guys to buy in last year.  If they play well this year Hue is going to be a huge reason for their success.  I will say that I think they made some odd decisions in FA this year and previous years for that matter.  Letting go of Mack and Shwartz is crazy especially when the draft pick you took in the first a few years ago to replace one of those guys has played terribly.  Its not iike they didnt have the cap space.  One thing I know is that we got lucky when they took Manziel and not Carr.  We should probably send the homeless guy who convinced Jimmy Haslam to take Manziel a gift basket or something.  Its the least we could do

There certainly are a number of holes on the offense, at least 4 I can count. Center, right tackle, fullback and #1 reciever. Where you are correct we need some swag at wide reciever, we also need some aggressiveness from our front office. We need to go get the players in the draft we want instead of the typical mentallity of we will sit still and see what falls to us and if it's not good enough we will trade back for more picks where the quality of player just keeps dropping. For every 6th round Tom Brady there are 50 Johnny Manziels, Vince Youngs and JaMarcus Russels. Go get a top ranked player. When we have picked early we have always done well. Let's stop this wide reciever merry go round of failure and jump up and grab a superstar. We need Ozzie to be as aggressive as the WR you propose we need.

fusuymada the players that you want the Ravens to draft are not always the players that the Ravens want to draft. Moving up a few spot is not a guarantee to hitting a home run. Its a ridiculous proposition that I hear a lot. Why don't we just trade are 4 5 and 6 picks to jump up. Well you don't because it may not be necessary. The guy you wanted is falling down the board. You can't assume that a trade up is going to automatically pay dividends. ART BROWN.

How does this guy still have a job writing editorials for this website? I am sure John is a good guy. But editorializing, about the Ravens at least, is just not Johns cup of tea. I don't think he is a bad writer. I have actually read one of his books and thought it was very well written. But these pieces are just so cringe worthy. His ideas and descriptions almost come across as childish. They always seem to be fanciful and don't impart any legitimate insight into the topic he is discussing. There is a clear lack of creativity. And whats worse is that I think, he believes that he is being innovative or thinking outside of the box (like describing an editorial cartoon at length). And for me at least that's the part that makes me cringe. Its sort of like second hand embarrassment.

  10 hours ago, hen826957 said:

I heard that Timmy Jernigan is on the trading block. Or thinking about trading him since they can't afford him next year. http://www.baltimorebeatdown.com/2017/3/24/15050162/michael-lombardi-says-the-ravens-are-talking-about-trading-timmy-jernigan-nfl-draft-brandon-williams

If that's true, and there was any to get a second round pick in this draft for him, I'd do it.

I was thinking the same thing, but I don't know if there is a team out there that would give us a second for Tim. But a guy can dream can't he. Its very Bill Belichickesque

i think barnett is the only one that some how could slide to us (doubtful) thats truly worth the 16th pick the rest of these guys are good but then I think of judon and smith and if they draft a OLB pass rusher whats it say to those guys the only gut i see us going after is anderson from al and if we do it will be in the 3rd round or late 2nd

If there is guy we like at pass rusher we wont pass him up just because we have got other young guys at the position. Judon did look impressive last year but Z, as of last season has not been an efficient pass rusher so far in his career. I am optimistic about those guys improving but I don't think relying those guys to bring a consistent pass rush is a good move. One area that gets overlooked in our inability to hold on to leads in the 4th quarter is the pass rush. The reason that it isnt there is because those guys are sucking wind late in the games. We need more quality depth at the position for this year and next.

Tony Jefferson has a new celebration.. "Fake Falling" :D

Go ahead and pencil it in somewhere in the neighborhood around Sept 20, 2017

When I used to play ball I would bet guys (usually incoming freshman) a six pack that they couldn't "fake fall" when we had full padded sessions in training camp. What I mean by that is that I would bet guys that they wouldn't be able to fall straight backwards from a standing position without bracing themselves with their hands. Even with full gear and a helmet its tough. Its really hard to fight the survivalist instinct to support yourself, but people don't realize that until they try it. Needless to say my fridge was full stocked during those weeks.

1 hour ago, hen826957 said:

I wouldn't trade our defense though or our special teams that's for sure. Lol.

I cant really tell if you are serious or if you are being sarcastic but either way I would check out thet guys they have.  They  D haven't put all the pieces together yet and didn't have as good a year statistically as the Ravens did last yea,r but they have a lot of young guys at key positions.  Once that D starts clicking the Raiders are going to be a tough team to beat.  There offense is already in the top 5.  That 2014 draft was special and was the catalyst that has turned that team around.  Carr - one of the best young QBs in the league.  Mack - one of the best pass rushers in the league. And in the next draft they picked up amari cooper, one of the best young recievers in the league.  They hit on a few others that year as well.  Jack should certainly get some credit as well the FO.  Although if you are GM and have three consecutive season where you pick in the top 5 it increases you chance of hitting.  But regardless of that they have found some guys in the laster rounds and Carr in the second was a slam dunk

1 hour ago, RoamingRaven said:

That's exactly my point, people in this thread are acting like Aiken said "Screw Baltimore, I hate them, they suck, I did amazing things in Baltimore, Indy ftw." People talking about him like he spray painted a swastika on the field before he left. Jeezz

No one is saying Aiken was great, never said he was better than Perriman or Wallace- just that when given playing time, he's more dependable to catch the ball.
Keep in mind, all those stats about his 1st down %(which led our receivers) or 4% drop rate came in the year where he saw his reps decrease cause SSS, Periman, and Wallace were 1, 2, & 3 in the depth chart.

Everything Aiken said is valid.
Are there better options, OBVIOUSLY.
But to Aikens point, there is a difference between not playing cause you suck, and not playing cause the front office wanna see what the rookie can do.

Aiken is not that great BUT, when put in his shoes, if in 2015 you led the team with 75 receptions for 944 yards and five touchdowns, then see your self on the bottom of the depth chart for what is in your mind no other reason than some bigger names came in.... tell me you wouldn't feel the same way???

Its a product of ones inability to be objective.  People were saying the same things about KO last year.  And they would chastise the guy for being "selfish" and taking the money.  And that kind of thing just blows my mind.  Its a physical sport.  Every single game there is a chance that a guy could suffer a career ending injury.  You have to take as much as you can get in your first contract because there in no guarantee that you will get another one.  After he signed with Oakland there were people that were so bitter that they would say irrational things like...  Its a black hole in Oakland....  He is never going to win there.....  If It was me I would take a hometown discount so I could play on a winning team.  yada yada.  The last one is the one that gets me though.  Heck I would trade all of our players for all of their players in a heartbeat. I wouldn't even have to think about it.  That team is going to be a legitimate contender in the playoffs for many years to come.  I feel sorry for the city though.  Just when the franchise is getting back on track they move. It reminds me of the Supersonics.  

9 minutes ago, stixfix69 said:

I think Flacco heard Aiken, as at the end of the season he seemed to look for him more....We have speed in Perriman and Wallace, what we need is a slot WR who has no fear running crossing routes.....I would have had no issue if Aiken came back....But lets give Moore a shot, he seemed to be pretty physical....our WR corp really isn't in that bad a shape, we have Mattthew's at 6-5, Camp who can be a tough to cover, and has shown he can run that jet sweep with success....draft BPO, and groom them...and sign a veteran ILBer....I also think Judon is going to be a beast this year with more snaps....

Aiken made 15 catches n the first 8 games and 14 in the last 8.  8 catches in the first 5 games and 6 catches in the last 5 games.  Im pretty high on Judon as well.  That man has some heavy hands.

  2 hours ago, The Mom Gene said:

I'm sorry... but Aiken sounds like he's whining. He had opportunities. Quite a few times I saw where he was basically hit right in the numbers with the ball and dropped the pass. Come on man....  He had a ton of chances to prove himself.

I loved Juice. As a fullback, and where the position has taken a back seat to RB's and Receivers, you can basically understand where he's coming from. The play at the end of the Steeler's game is one I will not forget. He laid it out to make that TD.

Good Luck to both of them.

Agree. Aiken really isn't THAT good to be honest. He had his chances to prove himself but couldn't out perform a retiring vet or 2nd year rookie. His route running is also suspect. Lets see just how much he actually plays in Indy. He might just live on special teams. Notice just how much interest teams had in him....Ummmm hardly any. When he signed with them it wasn't a long deal so that should tell him something. I hate whiners! Blame everything and everyone but himself. Geez.

Yea, it is hard to envision Kamar getting much time on offense unless someone gets hurt. I don't think that anyone has ever thought that Kamar was THAT good. I had a hard time last off season trying to justify the FO move to tender him as a second round RFA last year. I still cant come up with any logical explanation for why they made that decision. That said I really don't think what he said is as incendiary as you and others are making it seem. I wish him well.

I can not put my finger on it, but for some reason I've always been immediately field with all sorts of doubt and hesitation as soon as I see Jensen trot onto the field. It's just probably me.

That said, if Jensen really was the FOs whole plan at C for us, we would have probably been better of retaining Zuttah.

I think that type of reaction is warranted. He has had some impressive games though. They usually come after he strings together a few starts due to injury. I am hoping that if he wins the job and takes all first team reps he will at least be able to settle into the spot and at least be an adequate center. Although I may be overly optimistic in that regard. Either way he is going to have to compete with some rookies and UDFAs. If the coaching staff isn't comfortable with any of them they can always pick up a vet. One thing I do like about the guy is his mean streak. He is going to give it all he has on every play, whether his "all" is enough to win the starting job is yet to be seen.

Just now, RaRaRavens said:

Sorry! Misread your comment, my bad.

 

You are right about not many QBs agreeing to a paycut. But I don't think anyone is expecting Flacco to necessarily take less money, just "shuffle it around" like you pointed out that other QBs have done to provide some cap relief. 

There actually is a QB in the league that takes less money than he deserves.  But he doesn't take less money than the agreed upon amount in his contract. When negotiating his contract he knowingly takes much less than he's worth in order to help the team. And that is Brady.  Some guys will take discounts to stay with a certain team but those discounts are nowhere near the amount that Brady leaves on the table.

30 minutes ago, RaRaRavens said:

What a load of hogwash.

First, restructuring does not necessarily mean a player gets paid less. Converting base salary into bonus money pays the player the exact amount as before, just now some of that money is guaranteed. It's always risky for a team, but it's a common tool to lower a player's cap hit.

Secondly, plenty of QBs have done it. Brady and Big Ben have both done it at least 2 times in the past 5 years if I remember correctly.

Heavens to Betsy 

You are remembering incorrectly Brady and Ben restructured, but they still got the amount of money agreed upon when signing their contract.

33 minutes ago, RaRaRavens said:

What a load of hogwash.

First, restructuring does not necessarily mean a player gets paid less. Converting base salary into bonus money pays the player the exact amount as before, just now some of that money is guaranteed. It's always risky for a team, but it's a common tool to lower a player's cap hit.

Secondly, plenty of QBs have done it. Brady and Big Ben have both done it at least 2 times in the past 5 years if I remember correctly.

What a load of Baloney 

I never said that restructuring meant a player gets payed less.  I said exactly the opposite. Did you miss this line... "shuffled their money around to give teams more cap room but they are still getting the amount of money that was offered to them in their contract". Brady and Ben have done what exactly ?  Taken less  money than the agreed upon amount in their contract. Nope.  Go back and carefully read what I wrote and if you still dont think it is true than give me an example of when Ben or Brady took less money than their contract promised.  The closest that a QB has come to taking less money than their contract stipulated was Manning in his last year in Denver.  He freed up some cap space and actually did leave money on the table, but there were performance incentives which would allow him to recoup that money.  He went to the Super Bowl which means he did get the money after all.  As you mentioned restructuring does not mean that they are getting paid less.

http://mmqb.si.com/2014/02/26/nfl-salary-cap-explained

"Players with numerous cap restructures, such as Fitzgerald and Ben Roethlisberger, might leave behind tens of millions of cap charges, limiting the teams’ future ability to compete."   And as I said restructuring kicks the can down the road.

Joe Flacco listens to Pitta on just about everything including his personal grooming it seems. So, Joe take a cue from Pitta and help the team out man! Take a pay cut so we can get you more help. It's about time you helped the team out in a meaningful way.

There has been a total of zero starting QBs in recent memory who have decided to take less money than the amount that was agreed upon at the time when they signed their contracts. QBs have shuffled their money around to give teams more cap room but they are still getting the amount of money that was offered to them in their contract. And really all that does is kick the can down the road. Joe is not going to going to take a paycut. It's really an unprecedented move.