billiejean

11 hours ago, objective view said:

11 hours ago, designermaryland said:

  13 hours ago, objective view said:

You just can not win if you do not put points on the board and our offense is pretty depleted right now. We have drafted edge rushers each of the last several years and it's time for one of them to step up! Coaching staff needs to show an ability to develop the raw talent that has been drafted ie Correra!

We need to focus on offense this year, OL and Receiver at the high end of the draft and I would be much happier with a CB who can cover than another edge rusher if we go defense again.

Everyone says we need more pressure to help the corners BUT if the corners can hold just a little longer in solid coverage the rush that we have may just have the time to get there! Today's NFL is shorter, quick routes which further establishes the need for solid corners who can play the bump game well because outside pressure is probably not going to get there on the quick release routes anyway. Priority on Defense is CB not edge rusher IMO. but we also need to fix the dam offense once and for all!

Drafted Perriman, Stanley first round the past 2 years. That seems to skew offense in my book recently.

We released Zuthah, Lost SS SR, Lost Wagner, Lost Akin, Lost Juszczyk last year Lost Osemele and do not have quality back ups for the O line, so unless you want to loose 10 to zip or 14 to 3, you might rethink your position...

With so many holes on our roster you have to take the bpa with the exception of QBs and TE in the first. In situations like this getting value for your pick takes precedent over needs. If the FO went into the first with a plan to only select guys from a few selective positions they could get painted into a corner. And end up taking a guy way to early or passing on a guy that the FO thought would be long gone by the time we got on the clock.

I would still move up and go for TE Howard, to help our poor offense, but if Ozzie is going all defense ( free agents and draft ) this year this guy could be good.

Chuck I think I have figured you out. I think OJ Howard is the only guy in the draft that you know anything about.

No on McKinley - Foster is a much better pick at LB however I just dont see the Ravens going LB unless all others on the board are gone.

Foster will most likely be gone. Why do you think the Ravens wont take a LB. LB, WR, or DB are the most likely positions that the Ravens will take in the first. I think most fans would feel pretty good if we were to take Takk in the first.

Main thing Ozzie & crew NEEDS to think about... who's the next best/similar guy if Davis is snagged before we pick.

Do you think that they haven't thought about that yet?

5 hours ago, robbie29 said:

"After coming just a few inches short of stopping an AFC North-winning Antonio Brown touchdown"
Please stop putting so much emphasis on that one play. The Ravens were not a playoff calibre team last year. Period. They scored just 10 points against the Redskins (at home, no less)...then 2 weeks later they scored zero offensive TDs against a Jets team that was even worse than the Redskins. Not showing up for those two games was what did the Ravens in last year, not one play in Pittsburgh. The defense had it's lackluster performances too, of course.
If the Ravens end up filling the void at Center with either Urschel or Jensen, and stand pat with the RBs we currently have on the roster...I don't see Baltimore finishing much better in 2017 than they did in 2016.
On the bright side, the defense has added the tools to improve from last year.

You would have said the same thing about the 2012 team before the playoffs started. In the last five games of that season we only won one game. We lost to the Redskins who were led to victory with a second string rookie. We lost to a Philly team that ended up winning 4 games that year. The Texans were a good team in 2012 but we got absolutely obliterated by them 43-13. And we would have lost the Chargers game if it wasnt for Rice/Bolden and the chargers were average at best that year.  We have won a heck of a lot of games in the playoffs that we werent supposed to win.  The 2009 playoff game against NE is probably the best example of that.

Forgot we have Woodhead, he could be a real good addition to our mix of RB's. He's a downhill style runner, and a great compliment to West & Dixon (once Dixon is eligible to return). Just praying they all stay healthy come regular season. Dang pre-season smh.

The guy is so versatile. He should be getting some reps in the slot as well. He could also be an option in the return game. I hope Marty and the guys come up so innovative ways to use him.

Hey Garrett instead of telling us he looks good on Harbaugh's word, why don't you move 20' from where you guys are located and shoot an interview with him or take some pictures. We can tell if he looks good or not and it's far more effective than a truly filler piece.

Its probably not that easy. The guy isn't spending all day at the facility.

Action Bronson is going to light it up this year.

  6 hours ago, BigUgly said:

I think Lattimore, Davis, Williams, and Barnett could likely be gone by the time we pick, though an early run on QBs or OL could change that.  There is a chance Fournette could slide to them, but that is unlikely.  I think the Ravens trade of Jernigan indicates they think there are 1st-round equivalent players available as late as #75 overall.  If they can trade back and net another pick in that range, I think they take it.  I could see the Texans moving up to grab a QB.

Its been rumored that Fournette is being considered by the Browns at #1. So I seriously doubt he slides to us.

Wow thats crazy. If I was a Browns fan and they took Fournette at one I would not be happy. I would be more comfortable if they moved a few spots back. But even then I think passing on Garret is a decision that would haunt them for a long time a la Haloti Ngata.

One thing it allows us to do is bump TJ inside to a LB spot on passing downs, so Mosely is the only true LB on the field, if that.
The Three year part is a little weird to me. I want to see the contract details. But like a lot of people on here, I think it's a good signing.
A lot of people on here think he can play cb outside and the slot.....I'm not so sure about either of those. I think his traditional cb play has been slipping for years.
But I do think he can still play FS, and cb when we play zone with more dbs on the field.
I also think he can field punts. He might not be Hester or Jacoby in their prime, but I think he can do a serviceable job. Especially fair catches inside the 20. A mix of Webb, Camp, and a draft pick returning kicks sounds great to me. I'm curious what Moore has to offer as well.
But having Webb's sure hands to return punts sounds terrific. I feel like I've been biting my lip and cringing on every punt return since our 2nd SB year. Especially Jacoby the year after. It's such an important an underrated part of the game. It'd be nice to have stability back there.
I haven't watched any of Adoree Jackson's CB tape, not return tape. I know he's electric in the return game, but I would want to think he can become a very good cb if I was going to spend a 2nd rounder on him. People falling in love with the return ability reminds me of Justin Gilbert.
I would imagine just about everyone would say that Adoree is a better prospect than Gilbert was coming out. I think Gilbert went 8th overall, and almost everyone has Jackson going in the 2nd round this year. That speaks volumes and is an awesome example of how absurd this draft is.
If Takk, Barnett, Davis, Ross, and Williams are all gone at 16, which is possible, I think we should definitely trade back a nice 7-10 spots. It would most likely mean getting the same quality of player, while getting an extra pick to grab somebody like Sidney Jones! Gotta do it.
I have a feeling Ozzie will seriously be looking at Foster and Cam if they're there at 16 as well.
This draft is going to make and/or kickstart multiple franchises

Its also possible that Woodhead could be in the mix as a returner.

15 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

cam robinson at 16 to play LG and sliding lewis to RT would seriously be the best move unless lewis is absolute garbage at RT. he is just ok at guard and doesnt seem to offer as much powerful push up front as we would like.

I don't think you can make the assumption that Lewis will never be able to get a push at guard based solely on his rookie season.  In Rick Wagners rookie year he would come in for heavy sets and he looked awful.  In his soph year he was one of the best Tackles in the league.  Im not saying that that is going to be the case for Lewis but it could.  Im also not keen on the idea of taking a OT at 16. It certainly could happen but I don't think any of the tackles in this class are worthy of being picked that early.

Williams looks good, but Frankly I might rather have Ju Ju. Not to mention Ju Ju is going about a full round later for some reason.
Going Barnett then Ju Ju still looks ideal to me

what do you think about Zay?

  On 4/7/2017 at 3:31 PM, omar586 said:

our focus in draft should be PassRushers, CBs , C/G/T.

Right on. Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, and Mat Burk retired. What are Ravens still looking for? Linebacker, Safety, and a Center.5 years later. Has everyone forgot about the nightmare when Matt Burk retired in 2013?

Did you know that Birk came from the NFC. Is he an exception to your rule that AFC free agents are better than NFC free agents?

  16 hours ago, Crusader said:

Right on. Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, and Mat Burk retired. What are Ravens still looking for? Linebacker, Safety, and a Center.5 years later. Has everyone forgot about the nightmare when Matt Burk retired in 2013?

Well we do have CJ Mosley, who's pretty good. If you fools still think we're going to find the next Ray Lewis or Ed Reed before you even die, you're just fooling yourself. There's 31 other teams teams in the league, and they've spent decades looking for players of that caliber. We haven't had them for all of about 5 years. O the humanity!

Yes, everybody forgot Birk. He wasn't here that long, was pretty average at the end, and the Ravens were pretty good in 2014 without him.

Again, its been a whopping like 3-4 years, and you guys act like its been an eternity.

A little perspective goes a long way folks. 

Starting to get back to the way it was a few months ago, when it was quite obvious that a lot of you fans actually DESERVE a losing team. 

Yea there is some selective memory about every aspect of that season. Birk was a solid anchor for us but he was on the back 9 of his career. He had already played 10 seasons with the Vikes. When he would have to go against big powerful NTs I would get worried. Wilfork gave him fits.

  8 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

  16 hours ago, Crusader said:

Right on. Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, and Mat Burk retired. What are Ravens still looking for? Linebacker, Safety, and a Center.5 years later. Has everyone forgot about the nightmare when Matt Burk retired in 2013?

Well we do have CJ Mosley, who's pretty good. If you fools still think we're going to find the next Ray Lewis or Ed Reed before you even die, you're just fooling yourself. There's 31 other teams teams in the league, and they've spent decades looking for players of that caliber. We haven't had them for all of about 5 years. O the humanity!

Yes, everybody forgot Birk. He wasn't here that long, was pretty average at the end, and the Ravens were pretty good in 2014 without him.

Again, its been a whopping like 3-4 years, and you guys act like its been an eternity.

A little perspective goes a long way folks. 

Starting to get back to the way it was a few months ago, when it was quite obvious that a lot of you fans actually DESERVE a losing team. 

You're right. The 96 draft with Lewis & Ogden (& Jer, Lewis) is ranked as a top ten of all-time selection. Nothing from anyone (even the Patsies) ranked as good in the last 20 years. So yeah, we need to keep some perspective when we keep demanding the next Ray Ray or Antonio Brown every year.

In 2007 the Niners drafted Patrick Willis, Joe Staley, Ray Mcdonald, Dashon Goldson, and Terrell Brown. JO and Ray definitely had better careers than Staley and Willis but you could make the argument that the other three picks in that draft put that class above ours. Those guys were the only guys they drafted that year too. Its a pretty good class. All of the guys were instrumental in getting to the SB in 2012. But I dont think they have two HOFers in that group.

On 4/8/2017 at 0:35 AM, Crusader said:

Gilmore had his best year that included 5 interceptions in 2016. Compare Jimmy Smith stats and pay to Gilmore the last 5 years. Both first rounders.Gilmore played 8 more games and getting less than Jimmy. I do recall the one reason people say Ravens lost the Steelers game was because Jimmy was not there or is that not now true?.

--Top ten QB in 2015 Stephon Gilmore, Bills came in at 11th and 26th all time. Jimmy was 71.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2623992-br-nfl-1000-ranking-the-top-101-cornerbacks-from-2015

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/05/nfl-top-10-cornerbacks-rankings-richard-sherman-darrelle-revis

-- Also Check out what America thinks about the Timmy Jernigan trade.
http://walterfootball.com/freeagentsigninggrades.php

I say NE is the gold standard because they don't disappear for ten years after they win a Super Bowl. Their free agents were a Corner-back from a division rival Buffalo, Running back from Bengals, and a DT from the Ravens. All AFC. Ravens go after NFC players.. mostly.

I am going to try to break this down for you.......  The comment that we are debating is below. It was in reference to signing Camp to a NEW contract...

"Ozzie is really liberal with Steve's money with these contracts. You don't see that with the gold standard team. NE."

1.  My first argument is that the Camp signing was not being  "liberal" with Steves money.  Camp had already signed his tender so he was under contract before we signed him to another contract.  The new contracts base salary is LESS than his tender.  This means that if we cut Camp or he gets hurt he will be making LESS than he would be before Friday.  There are monetary incentives that he can increase the money that he recieves but only if he performs well and is able to contribute.

2.  The second argument that I am trying to make is even the "gold standard" gives out liberal contracts. I am going to respond to each of your argument even those that have no relevance to the issue at hand.

This is your first argument

"Gilmore had his best year that included 5 interceptions in 2016. Compare Jimmy Smith stats and pay to Gilmore the last 5 years. Both first rounders.Gilmore played 8 more games and getting less than Jimmy. I do recall the one reason people say Ravens lost the Steelers game was because Jimmy was not there or is that not now true?."

It is completely irrelevant. Jimmy Smith and the contracts that our FO have given out do not negate the fact that NE gives out liberal contracts.  But again you have made an assumption that isnt true.  Gilmore is getting paid more than Jimmy.  Jimmy got a 4 year deal for 41,000,000 with 21,000,000 guaranteed.   Gilmore got a 5 year deal for 65,000,000 with a WHOPPING 40,000,000 dollars guaranteed.  And that guaranteed money is why this is such a "liberal deal".  The only cornerbacks that currently have contracts with more guaranteed money than Gilmores are P, Peterson, J. Hadden, and J. Norman.

This is your next argument

"Top ten QB in 2015 Stephon Gilmore, Bills came in at 11th and 26th all time. Jimmy was 71."

Again this isn't relevant to my arguments.  Jimmys play  has nothing to do with NE contracts.  The numbers you gave were from bleacherreport....lol.  Cmon man that is a list a BR writer pulls out of nowhere.  Here is PFFs opinion of Gilmores play and the contract he recievied.  PFF rdoesn't just doesnt rank randomly.  Its a system that gives a grade for every play a guy plays.  They then tally those numbers and get a final grade.  Its not perfect but bleacherreport rankings make it look like an exact science.

"CB Stephon Gilmore to New England Patriots

Actual: Five years, $65 million, $40 million guaranteed

PFF play-earned contract: Five-years, $22.8 million, $12.1 million guaranteed

Grade: C

Gilmore is one of the few corners in this free-agent crop capable of manning a No. 1 role for a defense, so he was always going to get big money, but his PFF play-earned contract figure shows just how far short of his reputation his play has been at times over the past few seasons. In 2016, Gilmore allowed 60.3 percent of passes thrown his way to be caught, and was beaten for 15.6 yards per catch."

The other thing that comes into play here is Malcolm Butler.  It is going to be very hard for NE to retain him next year because of Gilmores contract. And in the last two seasons Butler has outplayed Gilmore.  He had 5 interceptions last year but it was the worst performance of his entire career.  He finished as the 61st best CB

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2017/03/09/report-patriots-to-sign-cornerback-stephen-gilmore/

https://www.fanragsports.com/nfl/patriots/patriots-db-stephon-gilmore-worth-new-contract/

And your next argument

"Also Check out what America thinks about the Timmy Jernigan trade.
http://walterfootball.com/freeagentsigninggrades.php"

Absolutely irrelevant yet again.  What Timmy Jernigan has to do with NE free agent contracts is beyond me.

Next argument

"I say NE is the gold standard because they don't disappear for ten years after they win a Super Bowl. Their free agents were a Corner-back from a division rival Buffalo, Running back from Bengals, and a DT from the Ravens. All AFC. Ravens go after NFC players.. mostly."

Irrelevant.  My argument is not that I dont think that NE is the "gold standard" it is that they too give out liberal contracts.  And then your last comment is just bizarre. I have no idea how you came to the conclusion that picking up AFC players is better than picking up NFC players.  There have been off seasons when we have picked up more AFC players than NE and again that doesn't have any significant meaning.

what does that mean ..."remain pure"? You want it to be PURE then just run the combines and don't tell any fans about it. Only coaches, owners, and scouts be allowed in. THATS pure. Once you let fans and TV and commentators in it becomes a festival, a circus, a money maker.

Yea.. thats not going to happen. Although Roger tries to make it look like he and the NFL care about breast cancer, domestic violence, and the players, its really all about Benjamins baby. I wouldn't be surprised if they started to sell ad space on the gear that the players wear during the drills.

I doubt they talked about this but at some point someone has got to wonder why the OL are doing the same drills as the RB and WR. The drills should not be the same for every position. Obviously there will be overlap between position groups but it really doesn't make sense to have the OL and the DL run 40s.

16 hours ago, ellicottraven said:

I don't see how he ever plays a 16 game season. He seems to be too fragile for the NFL. He's a gym rat I know, but that doesn't mean much because as I can recall one Eugene Monroe was a gym rat too.

It doesn't really have much to do with going into the gym and lifting weights.  Its more about stretching and becoming more flexible.  But its a win win move.

I have been waiting for an update on this guy. A big knock on him coming out was that his work ethic wasn't great. I was worried he would go home to recuperate after the injury instead of staying in Baltimore. If he did that his mental struggles would be much greater than what they were. I am glad he stayed. Its good to here he is getting in the gym too. It seems like him and Willie have a good relationship. They're are going to push each other for playing time.

14 hours ago, Crusader said:

17 hours ago, designermaryland said:

This is the problem I have with the Ravens overall plan. Why are you signing 6 mediocre WR and specialists, and talking about drafting a WR? You cannot do both. Every one of these seemingly small contracts is eating away at available cap space to sign others. If you want to give Campanaro a go, fine. But move on and draft a CB or end rather than waste the pick or the contract of the veteran. No need to have 5 TE's and 10 WR's on your roster. I truly think they have no clue.

Ozzie is really liberal with Steve's money with these contracts. You don't see that with the gold standard team. NE.

It would probably be best for you to take a look at the contracts given out by the "gold standard" before you make that assumption. Did you not see that they bought in Steven Gilmore this year for a ridiculous amount of money. Crusader you actually have some really good critiques at times but then you throw in an argument that is invalid or just doesn't make sense. And for this most part those types of comments can be attributed to your inaccurate assumptions which are based on anecdotal information. And Gilmore is not the only one.  But even if the "golden standard" never gave out big bad contracts your point is nullified by the fact that this isn't a liberal move.  Its a conservative one.  He singed to a base deal worth less than his tender. But if he does contribute he can get some of that money back with incentives.  But if he never plays another game for the Ravens he will receive less money than he was scheduled to make before the new contract.

https://www.fanragsports.com/nfl/patriots/patriots-db-stephon-gilmore-worth-new-contract/

https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-5-free-agents-about-to-get-overpaid/

"This is not a very strong cornerback group at the top end. You can find capable starters, but if your team needs a true No. 1 cornerback, the cupboard is significantly barer. The only player that realistically fits that billing is Stephon Gilmore, but he is coming off a season that would make you seriously question whether he can be that guy. Gilmore allowed 60.3 percent of passes thrown his way to be caught this past season for 15.6 yards per catch, and while he has often been seen as a shutdown corner for the Bills, he has allowed 16 touchdowns over his career, and 12 over the past three seasons. The lack of other true No. 1 options will likely still see Gilmore’s value pushed up because of the ceiling he has shown at times."

This is the problem I have with the Ravens overall plan. Why are you signing 6 mediocre WR and specialists, and talking about drafting a WR? You cannot do both. Every one of these seemingly small contracts is eating away at available cap space to sign others. If you want to give Campanaro a go, fine. But move on and draft a CB or end rather than waste the pick or the contract of the veteran. No need to have 5 TE's and 10 WR's on your roster. I truly think they have no clue.

He isn't guaranteed to make the team. He is going to have to earn it. His new contract, at the base, is worth less than the tendered amount he was due. But if he plays well and contributes he can earn more money in incentives. The guys been plagued by injuries, but when he has gotten in games he has been able to contribute. With his contract the way it is we can cut him at anytime if he gets hurt again or get beat out by a younger guy or Danny Woodhead (they have very similar skill-sets). Only the top 51 player salaries for a team count against the salary cap in the off season. It seems that this has become your M.O. You complain about how the FO has no clue, but in most of your complaints there seems to be a factor that you have "no clue" about. And many times that factor makes your complaint inapplicable.

6 hours ago, BMoreDuck said:

You never know how it will play out with guys coming of injuries. Ifo Ekpre-Olomo was a 1st rd lock at one point and ended up dropping to the last round. Forgive my ignorance, but is an achilles injury considered a tough one to come back from or do people ususlly come back as strong? I'm sure there are some doctors on the board.

I think Ifo tore his ACL and at the same time dislocated his knee.  And I think the ACL injury was unusually bad as far as ACL tears go.  I feel bad for the guy.  A  lot of people had him as the number 1 CB in that years draft.  Suggs has actually tore his achillies twice (im not really sure about the severity of the tears).  One in the off season of the 2012 year and once in the very first game of the season 2 years ago.  Suggs actually was activated to play later in that 2012 season but from what I gather his recovery was unusually short for an achilles tear.  The 2012 season was our superbowl season and I believe he cam back a little after half way in the season.  That year he wasn't necessarily the Suggs we have come to know but he was still a force.  Some of that was conditioning related.  Its tough to stay in shape when you cant run or walk..  And then in 2013 he had 10 sacks and in 2014 he had 12.  He looked really good during those years even though he was over 30 in both of those years.  2015 he tore his other achillies in the first game of the season.  He came back last season and had 8 sacks.  He didn't look like his normal self but 8 sacks for a man his age is pretty darn good.  its hard to determine how much of his decline in play was related to the achillies and how much of it was related to being 34 years old.  But I think the younger a guy is when he tears it, the more likely it will be that he recovers.  There was a guy last year who had a career threatening knee injury and the cowboys took him at 34 even though there was a significant possibility that he would never play again.  CBs and OLBs are coveted in the league.  I think Jones will go late first or early second.  His injury is not nearly as bad as Jaylon Smiths who at this point is still  suffering from drop foot because of the nerve damage that he sustained during his injury.  He is going to play this year though.  He just has to wear a brace to kind of prop that foot up.  I had to come back and edit this because I forgot about Steve Smith.  In the 8th game of 2015 he tore his achillies and came back last year.  He had 800 receiving yards which is really good considering he came back from the injury and he was 37 years old.  There is also no doubt in my mind that if Steve wanted to play another season he would still be able to contribute... a lot.

Hopefully we signed a new medical staff as well

Yea I think we did that but Camps soft tissue issues seem to be something that he is more susceptible to than other guys. Hopefully he can get some expert to give him things that he can do to prevent those things in his off season workouts. If I were him I would pay to get the Dr. Andrews of physical therapy to get his opinion. Hes got to be feeling the pressure here. He is definitely not a lock to make the roster. But if this guy can keep him healthy and extend his career the money will be well spent. Unless of course there isn't much difference between the best and the Ravens guys which could certainly be the case.

Think this is a smokescreen. No way the Ravens take Jones at 16 w/ his injury. He needs a full pre-season and the Ravens need immediate help at CB. Who knows? Maybe he falls far enough for Ravens to get him in the 2nd. Doubt it, but you never know. Regardless, if they take him at 16, I will be nervous and disappointed.

A smokescreen on Minks part? Who is he smoke screening... fans? Decosta isn't going to show his hand to Mink. We aren't going to take him at 16. It would be interesting if he was there in the second but, I dont think he will make it. Jaylon Smith got picked with in the first few picks in the second round last year and there was no guarantee that he would even be able to play again. I havent really followed up on that guy but it will be interesting to see if hes going to be ready to go. Luckily, Jones doesn't have to worry about nerve damage with his injury. I guess the other (unlikely) scenario is that we trade back to the end of the first or the beginning of the second, take Jones, and pick up some other picks.