billiejean

  5 hours ago, DGrudski said:

I normally watch just for the entertainment value. But I'm kinda hoping that somewhere during this game, since there is no "real rush" on the kickers, Tucker gets a chance to kick a 65+ yard field goal. That would be something to see.

That would be sweet. Give his some wind and he's got it.

they should completely forgo the game and do something similar to the home run derby but for kickers. Not that that would increase viewership. The whole thing just makes me nervous. Im surprised they didn't can the thing when NE first round RB, who had over 1,000 yards in his rookie year, nearly had to have his leg amputated because of an injury he suffered during a flag football game at the pro bowl. I know it was a freak accident but it doesn't take much.

  6 hours ago, sizzlingdoom said:

  20 hours ago, TheConquerorWorm said:

Calling the shot: The Ravens will select RB Donnel Pumphrey with the 3rd Round Comp pick (for KO). Has a SSS mentality at RB with 4.4 speed. Most rush yards in the history of college football. This kid can go to the house every time he touches the ball......If he was 3 inches taller & 25 pounds heavier - he'd be a Top 5 pick - talent level is that good.

maybe cuz he's plays at SD state. Comparing this guy to SSS. LOL. 4.4 speed for the NFL, big deal. didn't even look that fast on film either vs bad competition. That would suck if we spent a third on him

"4.4 speed for the NFL, big deal."

Elliot ran a 4.47. just saying. Dixon ran a 4.58 for comparison.

Yea but Elliot weighs 55 pounds more than Pumphrey and Dixon weighs 45 pound more than he does. They have him listed at 170 now and that of course isn't official. Im not sure if players get measured in the Senior Bowl or not but that would certainly be a more accurate number.

With the way we are playing on offense and defending a rare lead near end of games, coupled with unimaginative coaching and drafting, we are staring at Mr. Doom (not Elvis, the other one)! I think we need 'TALENT' on this team.

Talent on the coaching staff with young, creative minds coordinating both our offense and defense and a HC that is also an Xs and Os kind of coach. Motivation can only take a team so far. Belichick is a classic example of a grumpy man who doesn't care about overt motivation (like John does) but focuses instead on the opponents' weaknesses and puts together a game plan (exploiting even limited talent he may have) to defeat the opponent. That is the kind of coaching temperament we need. Harbaugh doesn't bring it for no fault of his. He's simply not that type of coach.

As for player talent, we're severely lacking in that department as well. Okay, so the Patriots may not be talented across the roster as well you may say. But, then they have a cerebral, angry and motivated QB who'll whip them into shape or else... we don't because Flacco seems to believe that all his fellow offensive players are old enough to understand because they're professionals and paid like him too (very logical thinking but...). It's not going to cut it in this uber competitive NFL. So things must change in that we need to amass playing talent at every level of the offense for us to even think of challenging to be SB champions year in and year out.

Finally, the front office is stuck in the rut of mediocrity for too long. I cannot fathom the reasons for this slide. But my guess is the answer lies in these 3 scenarios. A) Ozzie has lost his magic as has Eric DeCosta and Horitz (unlikely).
B) Harbaugh is too involved like is rumored (insists on taking players with high moral character and special teams participation over pure talent and ability - very likely cause). C) We have lost too much scouting talent to poaching by other NFL teams (likely). Or it could be some combination of all three. Unless we figure out which of these reason is the cause for our mediocre to less than mediocre drafts lately, we are facing Mr. Doom all over again.

Flaccos mild temperament doesn't have anything to do with his struggles. I wish that was the problem but unfortunately its not. Flacco gets on players more than you would think, but they dont have audio recorders during the huddle. Being a ra ra, get in your face kinda guy at any position is extremely overrated. Matty Ice, who will likely be this years MVP is the same way. Yelling and screaming is cool if thats your thing, but it has absolutely no bearing on performance. Flacco gets on people when they mess up all the time and screaming at guys in the huddle isnt going to make them play any better. If youre in the NFL and you need someone to scream at you to get motivated youre not going to be around long. Some of the best players in this league are quiet guys... Tyrone Smith, Matty Ice, Calvin Johnson, Matt Birk, Todd Heap, Dennis Pitta, Gerald Mccoy, Haloti Ngata, Joe Thomas, and really I could go on for a while, those were just off the top of my head. I am on board with everything else you said in your comment though.

4 hours ago, Halshayeji said:

Iv been saying this for a few years now that our problem up front isn't the starting five. Our problem is the huge dropoff in talent between starters to the backups. It takes 8 good linemen to finish an NFL season and your often as good as your weakest link. Linemen will eventually get hurt during an NFL season. It's not fair to blame the likes of Ducass, Hurst, and Ried, for their struggles because they are backups of backups for a reason. 

Yea I am with you there.  We are going to have to bring in a lot of help.  Especially if we arent able to keep RW.

1 hour ago, BigUgly said:

The reason Zuttah will be released next year is not his cap hit, it is because he is not very good. If he weren't perceived by the FO as such a weakness, he would be kept at that cap figure.

He not a top 10 center but hes in the top half of the league.  He was ranked 13 this year 9 last year.  So yea there is room for improvement.  And if your definition of bad is not being in the top 10, then yea he is bad. But as Ive said you are basing your opinion on his play on about 1 percent of the plays that he has been in this year becasue there is no way that you have focused in on him for every single play of every single game this year.  He was ranked as the fifth ranked offensive player on our roster.  The weakest link on the line is Ducasse by a large margin.  And the front office has to determine weather being in the end of the first half of all centers justifys his cap number.  I will say this, if the best way to bring Rick back involves droping Jz than im all for that.  All of that really depends on what types of offers he get.  And if we drop him we would have to look outside of the roster to fill that void,, which im not apposed to either..  

1 hour ago, ByTheBay said:

3 hours ago, sami said:

maybe us viewers arent as smart as we think we are

It's not just the fans Sami. The whole front office from Biscotti to Newsome to Harbaugh all said the Oline needs an upgrade. If not Zuttah then who? I like what we have in Stanley, Lewis, Yanda and Wagner. Clearly we need better depth but depth is not what Biscotti said. He wants change. So if not Zuttah then who?

Its starting to look like our QB really is the problem. No matter the Oline or Receivers or OC. They all get thrown under the bus to save the front office from having to admit they have invested an enormous amount of money in a less than capable QB. I really hope as we all do that after another year from his injury Joe comes back next year better than ever. 

well we wont be able to keep Wagner and Ducasse was clearly the weak link there. And it not like Zuttah is a top 10 center. He came in at 13 which is in the top half of the league but hes taking up a lot of cap space there. I don't think there are any centers that would come in as upgardes to Zutah so the draft is where we do that. The other thing is deciding what kind of block scheme we will be running most next year. Zuttah is a much better zone blocker than a power guy.  With all that said if letting Zuttah is the only feasible way for us to resign Rick, I would do it in a heart beat.  The only thing that is worrisome is that there is most likely going to be a team that will over pay him like KO last year (getting LT money to play LG).  And in that case there isn't any chance that we will be able to keep him which is a bummer but it is the right choice.

23 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

1. Obviously a bit presumptuous to say that teams would prefer Baltimore over Buffalo in terms of likelihood of success. If you're talking strictly about PAST success, then sure, except unless he has a time machine and can go back and coach those players at those times, then past success doesn't play a ton into it, especially as an OC.

2. We don't know who is QB is going to be. Could be Tyrod (who he coached here), could be somebody else, in which case he will have good say into picking a QB he wants rather than being handed an existing one.

3. I'll definitely say this... I would take Buffalo's roster of players over the Ravens very quickly right now. I think it would be hard to argue that we have a more talented roster than them at this point.

4. I seriously doubt the OC cares about the organizational structure or how well a GM communicates with an Owner/HC. He's an OC. He reports to the HC. The HC picks him... not the GM, and not the owner. 

His job is to coach the offense and devise a game plan. His job isn't to worry about the politics of whether or not a Owner/GM communicate with each other.

That may be true, but If i were an OC I would be worried that Doug Whaley had no idea that Rex was getting fired, and was clueless as to why he was getting fired. And then to top it off DW conveyed his ignorance about the situation to the media, which is something in my opinion that should have been kept in house. But your right as an OC its probably doesn't concern you as much as if you were an HC.  But I don't think that being able to pick a QB from the discarded QB pile is as beneficial as you are making it seem.  And youre right their wide receivers are superior to ours mainly because of Sammy.  And Leseawn Mccoy is certainly an upgrade over our RBs, but there offensive line only has one guy that fits Ricks zone blocking scheme well.  C. Glenn, J Miller, R. Incognito, C. Kuanjo are all maulers.  And I didn't say that "teams" would pick Baltimore over Buffalo.  I said that Rick most likely would.  Do you really believe that past success can not be a factor in predicting future success unless every single detail is exactly the same? Joe had one of the best seasons of is career in 2014.  There are a lot of players that will be here in 2017 that were on the 2014 team.  And I think this roster is better than that one in a lot of areas.  There is also a bigger risk involved in Buffalo because youre working for a first time head coach that you don't know very well.  I can not say where he would go for sure, but I would say that there are a lot more risks associated with the Buffalo job than there are here.

46 minutes ago, BigUgly said:

7 hours ago, Swift 1 said:

Maybe we re over critical of the center position/

No, we are not. Joe consistently had pressure in his face, which (like Brady) really disrupts his progressions. On a play where he gets pushed back 3 yards, Zuttah may still grade out high if he is still in front of the defender and that defender doesn't get a sack, but he is still ineffective. Does not pass the eye test. Now that he is a Pro Bowl player, he is the epitome of overrated.

Yea yo are. Pressure op the middle doesn't mean that Zuttah was the one who was at fault for giving up the pressure. Ive been saying this all year. Jeremy had a rough first four games and from there he played well. There is no way that you could have watched Jeremy Zuttah on every single play during the season. People are basing their opinions about Zuttahs play on probably about 1 percent of the plays that he played during the year. He had one terrible game where he backed up on Joe twice. Im not sure which game that was but it was one of the first four. But since that time people have had the unfounded perception that, that type of thing has been happening all year. And it really hasn't. As i said before it is absolutely impossibility for anyone to have watched Zuttah on every single play. And as Ive been saying he has been consistently in the top 5 for offensive performers in the last 12 games. Which is why he had the fifth best grade on on our offense for the entire year. Unless you and a friend have done the following for every single play during the year then you haven't seen the whole picture.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/about/how-we-grade/

As i said before pressure up the middle does not mean that Zuttah gave that pressure up. Our guards were shuffled all season and once the line was solidified towards the end of the season Ducasse was clearly the weak link. Its also not always a OL fault. In the Philadelphia game on two separate occasions Joe was sacked or hurried because, Kenneth Dixon and then Juice, did not pick up the blitz. Its hard to see who is at fault during a game because

1. Your eyes aren't focused on the offensive line the entire time
2. Unless they show a replay it can be hard to see exactly what is happening in the middle of the OL because the view often is obscured by other players.

All that said Zuttah did have a problem this year. A big problem in fact. And that was penalties. Especially in that Dallas game. I think he also had a critical penalty in that Steelers game as well. And those yellow flags have also contributed to the perception that he wasn't playing well. I am not advocating that we keep him next year because he is awfully expensive, but if we let him go, there is not a player that is on our current roster that would do an adequate job of replacing him. We would have to count on either a FA or a draft pick to fill that void. I am also not saying that he deserves to go to the probowl.  I dont necessarily have a way of accurately assessing all of the centers in the league (no way in hell am I paying for that PFF subscription), but I would think that there would be a few that played better than JZ did this year.

3 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Source?

No source, I was just using logic, but youre right this is all anecdotal. By all accounts he had a good relationship with Joe.  You have a team and a quarterback that has been extremely successful in your system just 3 years ago.  The Ravens organization is much more stable than the Bills, who have not been in the playoffs since 1995.  And there is not a coach in the NFL that thinks they would have a better chance of winning with Tyrod rather than Joe.  There also seems to be lack of communication at the top of the organization between the GM and owners which was highlighted when Rex was fired.  There really aren't any factors which would lead anyone to believe that he would have more success in Buffalo than in Baltimore.  But I guess really there are two scenarios where he would choose Buffalo instead of Baltimore (if he was offered the job in both cities).  The first would be that there is some type of strained relationship between him and anyone else in the Ravens organization.  The second would be that he is making his decision based on factors that don't take the likelihood of success into consideration.  Maybe he just really likes chicken wings.

I think Correa or Onwuasor could fill that role. If they draft another ILB with all the other needs on this team, I think that would be a mistake. IF they have any desire to maintain a manageable cap, they need to get out of the win now mentality and let these young players develop.
The defense has enough old players as it is. That's probably the biggest reason for the defense nose diving a the end of the season.

I think it depends on how the board falls, but I am with you, I wouldn't be upset if we didn't get one during the draft. Im sure we will bring a few UDFAs in.

  23 hours ago, hen826957 said:

I bet Rick Dennison is going to be a good offensive coordinator for the Bills and the Ravens miss another opportunity to sign someone who knows west coast system.

My feelings exactly.

The frustrating part is that Rick would have takin this OC job over the Bills if we had offered it to him.

4 hours ago, sizzlingdoom said:

1. CB
2. O line
3. WR
4. Pass Rush Specialist- a McPhee type would be solid
5. S
6. MLB
7. RB

This is a futile exercise. You cant assign positions to particular rounds. There are so many variables that come into play on who we pick when we are up, and most of said variables can only be determined when we are on the clock.

If I'm Ozzie I sign Eric Berry and Brandon Marshall. Fill the rest of the holes through the draft. If a solid vet G/C becomes available we could add one as well.

Is this a serious statement? Come back down from the cloud my friend. There is no way we would be able to afford both of those guys. Even if we sign one of them hes going to eat so much cap space that we wouldn't be able to pick up any other guys for depth. Berry is most certainly out of our league at this point. It will be interesting to see how much interest Brandon Marshall gets but im expecting that someone will pay him more than we would be willing to pay him. I don't understand how someone who regularly posts on this site can actually believe that picking those two guys up is possible.

I think it's a strong possibility that with today's breaking news of Orr retiring, Ozzie will go for an ILB with his first pick. If there's something we've learned about Ozzie's team philosophy, it's that first of all you need a good D - and it starts with a rock solid center core - two great ILB's. Now there's a vacancy, and no clear replacement. Going for an ILB with the top pick would be a trademark Ozzie move - and looking back, they'll probably nail it - Ozzie was always good at identifying LB talent, and then the coaching staff has always been great at talent development at LB (the exact opposite of WR where the scouting dept seems to do a lousy job identifying good talent, and then the coaching studd seems unable to develop the young guns).

So, my guess is: an ILB with the first pick in April.

It really comes down to what the board looks like when we're up but we have a much more pressing need at OLB and CB. We already spent a first rounder and a second rounder on that position. And with the way the league is these days pass rush and coverage guys are a must. The other thing is that it ts harder to find quality CBs and OLBs in later rounds than it is to find ILBs.

"I think" "you have to realize", these are not the language of a decisive leader. Say it like you mean it Flacco!

How would a "decisive leader" have said it.

If there are any good picks, the Ravens will miss them. The FO is getting too old to deal with the rigors of checking out talent ahead of time.

Yea, they had such a terrible draft last year. What "rigors" do Ozzy and Eric have to overcome to successfully check out talent?

thats funny, I just read an article about both Donta Foreman and Tyler Orlosky last night

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/wvu-center-tyler-orlosky-a-better-nfl-draft-prospect-than-texas-donta-foreman/

  2 hours ago, bioLarzen said:

According to "reports" the Eagles are considering cutting ties with C Jason Kelce...

If it's true, I can definitely see a trade potential there. Kelce would be an obvious upgrade over Zuttah (sorry, Jeremy...), and a trade would keep Kelce off the FA market where he would probably be offered more than what we could afford...

Just media clickbait.

The Eagles save very little salary cap space if they cut or trade him. Add in the fact that he was still a highly productive player and there is no reason for the Eagles to move on.

You might be right but he really had a bad year in 2016.

2 hours ago, bioLarzen said:

According to "reports" the Eagles are considering cutting ties with C Jason Kelce...

If it's true, I can definitely see a trade potential there. Kelce would be an obvious upgrade over Zuttah (sorry, Jeremy...), and a trade would keep Kelce off the FA market where he would probably be offered more than what we could afford...

i think that depends on what type of blocking scheme that Marty is going to use most next season. Kelce would fit nicely into a zone block scheme but he had trouble with bigger DTs. It would also depend on what kind of money he is looking for. There is a reason that Philly may be cutting ties with him. He had one of the worst years of his career in 2016. This article below pretty much sums it up. It is sort of difficult to pinpoint exactly why he regressed so much last year, but I think the fact that he was asked to block the DTs that lined up directly on top of him much more that he did it Chips scheme, certainly played a roll. He also seems to have had trouble with his snaps in shotgun formations. And he had eight penalties last year which is even more than Zuttah had.

http://www.phillymag.com/birds247/2016/09/23/jason-kelce-philadelphia-eagles-2016-bad/

well, I'm sure somebody pushed for Aaron Rodgers while they took Mark Clayton two spots ahead. just imagine if ..., well I can't imagine. some of these are luck (like the Brady case), some are draft misses. it does not feel good when we can only talk about these in January.

i doubt it. We drafted Boller in 2003. Rodgers was drafted in 2005

27 minutes ago, whobilly said:

Real easy. There is Brady. There is Rogers. There is everybody else.

I think Ben deserves to be in that conversation as well as much as it pains me to say it.  Maybe just a tiny step down from Brady and Manning but the guy has put together one heck of a career and it isn't over yet.  My mind was blown the other day when another member said Ben was overrated because of all of the weapons hes had.  He does always seem to have quality receivers, but Bell hasn't been there very long and the backs that hes been with between the Bettis and Bell eras were roll players. They were good but I wouldn't consider any of them to be as good as Ray Rice was.  And the guy has played behind some pretty bad Olines.  No one extends a play like that guy.  Thats what makes him so frustrating to play against.  Not many DB groups in the league can consistently cover their guys for 30 seconds.. 

1 hour ago, Crusader said:

Who cares if its the Patriots or Steelers? As long as they lose in the Super Bowl to Green Bay or Atlanta. The same teams is just another factor killing the NFL. NSCAR attendance dropped after 5 wins in a row by Jimmy Johnson. Besides, this is the year of the outsider, Cubs won the World Series, Army beat Navy, and nobody thought Trump was going to win so I'm hoping Atlanta.

Im with you there.  This may be considered a form of sacrilege by some members here, but Matty Ice deserves one.

I really hope we draft a Center & Guard Rounds 2-4. Jabril Peppers, Dalvin Cook, D'onta Foreman, Corey Davis, John Ross, Jaylon Tabor, Adoree' Jackson should all be on our short list. We need more playmakers that can win games. Jackson, Peppers, and Ross bring return ability which we also need.

It makes absolutely no sense to assign positions to rounds in the draft. There are to many factors that can't be determined until youre on the board. But if one were to do that, I don't think it makes sense to take three interior lineman in the first 4 rounds. I dont think it makes sense to draft two interior lineman in the first 4 rounds. I am not saying it couldn't happen because of the unpredictability of the draft. If we were to draft G in the second and somehow when we are up in the 3rd and there is another G there that we had a high 2nd round grade on then yea take the guy. But its all situational. We would have to really be in love with a guy (or think the guys is a great value) to take two in the first 4. The best example of that of course is Ben Grubbs, Marshal Yanda. We just have so many other needs this year and you have to diversify those high picks. Another factor obviously is what becomes of JZ.

Hester has said he blamed injuries for his caprophagic performance with us, but I still remember him saying he was fine and finally healthy when he got here. He was like shaq with the celtics, just stealing.

Anymore insider info about Kubes coming to baltimore?

I just want to remind people that its not like this "elite" debate is a nationally talked about issue (at least for the last 3 or 4 years). I don't think its even a locally debated issue. It is just an issue that is brought up maybe once or twice a month on this site and people get all worked up about it. I would be willing to bet about 85% of the time it is brought up in LFW. And for the most part, Sarah isn't actually advocating for the fact that Joe is elite. Mostly, just like today, its a comparison of a particular stat or attribute that Joe shares with the elite QBs in the league. But she never actually makes the inference that because of these commonalities that he is in fact elite (Eisenburgs articles do seem to be a bit overly romanticized, so it is possible that he has tried to make a JF is elite argument recently but I don't regularly read his work so I wouldn't know). Its a tough job to write an article on every single weekday of the year about such a narrow topic. Sometimes you have to stir the pot a little to keep people interested (see Mike Preston) and Sarah knows that if the word elite is used in conjunction with the name Joe Flacco regardless of the inference, its going to create a little buzz. And its not like she is loosing readers, as it seems that it is always the same people that get incensed every time the "E" word is mentioned. You just can't take what the media say OR what people say to the media at face value.  It always makes me chuckle when John does an interview after a loss and people are fired up on here because he didn't throw Marty, Dean or Joe under the bus.  Unfortunately, the era when coaches didn't censor themselves has gone away with Rex.  But even he started cleaning up his media act a little bit and even being the loose cannon that he was, he would rarely talk disparagingly about his current players or coaches.