billiejean

  8 hours ago, robbie29 said:

  12 hours ago, EdTheMythicalOne said:

I looked over the complete second round history of this franchise and it is I'd say roughly 50/50 whether we get a gem or a bust and that doesn't refer to recent history. It has been that way for the entire length of this franchise.

I think the issue is that the more recent moves are obviously the more easily remembered ones and the busts sometimes overshadow the ones that turn into full time starters.

Just within the last few seasons we've seen these results:

2010: The Kindle/Cody fiasco, but then we bounce back in 2011 and 2012 with Torrey Smith and Kelechi Osemele...two BIG pieces to our second superbowl. Then in 2013 you have the Arthur Brown bust, but then in 2014 we get Timmy Jernigan who kind of dazzles you at time with flashes of brilliance and then blows it with stupid plays/lack of production. We also got Maxx Williams in 2015 who showed when healthy he might be a player, followed by KC in 2016 who so far is not showing up well.

I found myself thinking, "Hmm, maybe the Ravens would be better off just trading the 2nd round pick to trade up or get more picks later in the draft..." but then reversing myself when I see names like Ray Rice, Torrey Smith, and Kelechi Osemele.

"when healthy"...that's been the tragic prefix/suffix to most Ravens players in recent years. I say tragic because, more often than not, the guys who are great "WHEN HEALTHY" often miss significant playing time due to injury. Last year was particularly brutal- we lost all our top 3 TEs, plus our 2nd & 3rd picks, and a 4th round pick. Heck, even Stanley missed a quarter of the season. It's one thing if the older guys go down, bc you have younger guys who can step up. But when your young guys go down and you have to start your 2nd and 3rd string players, you end up with an 8-8 or a 5-11 record. Kinda hard to re-build and do well when you can't keep your draft picks on the field.

I agree with everything you all are saying, but i pose this question. Why are we suffering so many setbacks and why is it for the last 3 years, we can not keep players on the field. Injury is part of the game, but it seems like "our conditioning" or something isn't right. Idk, it just seems odd, and that can't keep being our excuse year in and year out.

There may be something to it and there may not be. To get to the bottom of it you would have to compare injuries suffered by the Ravens to other teams.

  18 hours ago, hen826957 said:

  23 hours ago, Azzi22 said:

hard nose plays like a raven.. we need more players like this... we need an IDENTITY ON D.. not sure why we let UPSHAW GO.. strongest and meaning Mother Tucker on our team... we need this guy... BRING BACK POWER , BIG HITTERS.. ...

I wanted Ozzie to resign Upshaw in the first place when he was a free agent but instead they want a draft pick SMH. The worst part was that he was not expensive to resign. We could've sign him a 2 or 3 year deal. l kept saying that we should've kept Upshaw because he was he was a very underrated player that is good against the run and ok at passrushing. Upshaw is physical.

my words exactly... we need Upshaw type players on our D.. we have no one to fear.. no big hitters..

When did Upshaw make a big hit outside of his rookie season, besides the time that he was spying on Ben, and blew him up when he tried to scramble out of the pocket. His mobility and speed decreased as his weight increased every year that he was on our team. I thought for sure he would try to get his weight down a little bit in his contract year, to get some of that speed back that he had in his rookie year. That season he had a great chance to prove that he could rush the passer because of Mcphees departure. But it was the same old song and dance my friend.

  20 hours ago, fluffy201 said:

  22 hours ago, sami said:

  22 hours ago, fluffy201 said:

  On 2/7/2017 at 1:58 PM, whobilly said:

Translated. Correa was a second round bust.

There has been too many second round busts. Max Williams, Correa, Arthur Brown. Not to say Williams and Correa don't have potential but very concerning they have seen barely any playing time, luckily we do pretty well in the mid rounds and un drafted. It would be nice to see our fist two picks in the secondary and the two third round picks go towards our O Line. We always do well with line backers and D line men, so I am not too concerned, but the secondary and O line has been trash for years. I really hope Correa steps up next year, and for Williams I am just not sure if I see him beating out Watson/Pitta (one will be cut) or Crockett if healthy, there is also a reason we still have Boyle, I thought he looked really good his first year. This team still has a ton of holes, which won't be filled in one year unfortunately. Feels like we are in the same position as last year unfortunately, except with more cap room.

Maxx Willaims was hardly a second round bust. He broke most of the rookie records for tight ends and weve had some good tight ends. How can you say our O-line has been trash?  We have drafted some excellent talent like Stanley and Alex Lewis this year and Rick Wagner not so long ago.

 

Maybe so, but Zutta has proven to be a weakness, and Alex lewis is hardly a run mauler like a lot of good tackles. We did seem to get hits in Lewis and Stanely which are great, but when those guys are injured we have serious problems, we lack depth big time. Jenson and Urschel must not be as good as we thought? Ducasse played in front of both of them right?

Uschel is more of a left guard. Jensen is not that great.

When Jensen has played he has played better and has been graded higher than Urschel. He is stronger than John and better at the point of attack. He was a healthy scratch last year for a lot of games because Urschel can play at any of the interior OL positions. With all that said Jensen performing a bit better than Urschel doesn't mean that we should count on him as a starter. If either of these guys is named the starter going into the season we are going to be in big trouble.

2 hours ago, Crusader said:

I don't know who or what happen in the Pats locker room but you can tell they were fired up coming out of the half more than Falcons. I would have love to hear that speech or who they were.. I don't think the Falcons will ever recover from that. I guess Kyle Shanahan not on the Ravens Radar any more.

Why because the lost the Super Bowl? Hes not on our radar because he signed up to be the Falcons HC three weeks ago. If we had an opening at OC or HC and he hadn't already signed with another team, the Superbowl loss wouldn't automatically disqualify him from being hired.  

On 2/4/2017 at 10:44 PM, jravens1313 said:

Did you watch 2016? Darren Waller and Pitta were the starting TE's for the most of the season. Neither are good blockers. Pitta is shifty but slow, and Waller is simply mediocre receiving TE. Why not add talent? Gillmore is always hurt. Maxx Williams disappeared. We need to make sure we have something better than Pitta and Waller in 2017. 

Maxx and Crockett were hurt last year and statistically its not likely that they will both be hurt next season.  Watson was hurt before the season started and Boyle was suspended for the first 10 games.  Williams, Crockett and Boyle have proved to be good blockers and although they aren't the fastest guys they use their size to their advantage by boxing out defenders.  Maxx and Boyle have proved to have good hands.  Between both of them they have only had 1 drop in the last two years.  Waller has unusual size and speed for the position and really didn't play many snaps last year.  He did have a drop this year but, if he works on his route running he could be a good joker tight end.  Pitta may be slow but he had 770 plus yards last year and he has a great relationship with Joe.  Being slow does not always mean that a TE will be ineffective.  Pitta runs routes well and does a good job of using his body to box guys out. Its illogical to think that the only TEs that we will be relying on next year are Pitta and Waller.  With 6 TE (Williams, Crockett, Boyle, Waller, Pitta, Watson) on the roster it doesn't make sense to take a TE high in the draft.  Even if we decide to part ways with one of those guys, 5 capable TEs are more than enough.  We have used a lot of picks in the past few years on the TE position and I wouldn't be surprised if we didn't draft one at all.  But if we do end up taking a guy it will be in the later rounds. 

Unfortunately we cant spend a third of our draft picks and half of our FA pickups on secondary help.  There are too many holes in other places.  Im not sure if we keep Webb or not because of his cap number but he graded out better in coverage than Weddle did last year.

9 hours ago, TheConquerorWorm said:

I hear ya but I disagree that the difference is negligible. Pierce was really good - playing behind (or) next to BWill but what happens when he's the main man? Pippen was a great player playing with Jordan - not so much when by himself. But the bigger issue is this - you're looking at just replacing one player for one player but this is a team and the d-line is a unit. How big of a difference is there between BWill + Pierce vs Pierce + ?? How big of a difference is there between Pierce and the next guy? What happens if Pierce get hurts? We saw what happened with the lack of depth behind Jimmy.

You basically have Pierce at the vet minimum for the next 3 years. If you pay BWill $10 million then you have both guys for a combined $11 million. I'd pay $11 million for TWO really good DT . You don't have to worry about that position again for 3 years even if 1 guy gets hurt.

Plus, you don't really have any of your FA that you need to spend money on next year (Urschel & Jernigan really) and the Ravens will finally have some good cap space even if they re-sign BWill & Wagner.

Yea thats a valid point especially because Carl Davis is an unknown commodity. I wasnt thinking about Urschel or Jernigan, but Mosley.  But I just realized that I wasn't taking his fifth year option into account.  Clearly there are a lot of unknown factors which would influence the following decision, but if you set those aside, would you rather sign BWill or Rick.  Based on the assumption that we could only sign one.

11 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

The problem is finding good pass rushers and DBs to invest in. The really good one's practically never hit the FA market. You've got to draft them yourself and resign them when they are good.

The teams that go out and try to spend top dollar on Corners or DBs who hit the open market typically end up disappointed in the end.

Yea thats a vallid point.  And really its not only about DBs and Pass Rushers, I just think that if we sign BWill to a huge contract now its going to be difficult to resign anyone of the guys leaving next year or the year after that.  And I am sure the FO takes all of that into consideration.  This may be a flawed way of looking at the situation but I just feel like BWills sphere of influence is just so limited.  Not only to the middle of the field but also only on running plays.  And i know there are other factors at play there.  By taking on the double teams he gives the guys next to him more favorable match ups.  And he keeps the ILBs clean which allows them to flow to the ball faster.  I just think with Pierce on the team it would be wise to spend the money on some of the guys that are going to hit FA next year.  And I am not saying that Pierce is going to play as good as BWills next year.  I just don't think that the gap separating BWilll from Pierce is large enough to negativily impact the team on a consistent basis.  In other words it is negligible.  I don't think we will lose any games next year because Pierce is playing instead of BWill.  But what do I know?  There are some interesting options at cb this year that could come at a reasonable price.  But of course the reason they would come at a reasonable price is because they sucked last year. 

16 hours ago, RavensDieHard21 said:

Well your analysis of Williams to Ngata is spot on, that's why Ngata got $60 million under the cap conditions off 2011 and Williams will likely be in the $45 million range in 2017. Ngata was a generational talent and that is very hard to come by. 

I like pierce a lot and I am rooting for him, but the fans have this tendency to place so much trust and dedication to these young guys that have had limited snaps. We can't always try to justify letting go of player X because player Y made a handful of nice plays their rookie years. 

I definitely see what you are saying here but i just think it is much better to invest in pass rushers and DBs.  Its easier to find interior DTs than quality CBs and pass rushers.  And it dosent have to be just one guy that would make up for BWills loss, you could rotate guys in depending on the situation,   I would also like to say that Pierce is not the same as, D Brown, Shareece Write, Chris Matthews, Brent Urban (the guy blocked a kick last year and all of the sudden they were penciling him in as a game changer at DE) and even Alex Lewis (We really don't know how this guy is going to play next year with the limited sample size that he has played, but everyone is penciling him as the next MY the more optimistic fans are penciling him in at RT.  I think he will do well but I don't feel comfortable crowing him just yet.) Pierce did not just make "a handful of nice plays last year".  He came in as the 11th ranked DT in run defense in the entire league.  Not that this means much but his play in his rookie season is heads and shoulders above BWills.  Its clear he is a motivated good character kind of guy.  As a UDFA on day 1 he was one of the strongest players on the team,  The guys is a hard worker and I think he will make a fairly big jump next year especially because he came from a 1AA school.  It would be nice to keep BWill but we should stick to our guns as we usually do.  We can't afford to be dragged into a bidding war with a team that has 4 times the cap space that we do. I feel the same way about KO.  It would have been nice to keep him but he was overpayed.  And if both of your guards are the highest paid players on you OL you're going to have to try to fill in both tackle positions with either older FAs or younger draftees.  And that could be disastrous for Joe who doesn't have great pocket awareness and is susceptible to giving up strip sacks to rushers off the edge..  And similarly to the defensive side of the ball, it is easier to find interior offensive lineman than it is to find OTs.  And I have no doubt in my mind that if we payed KO we wouldn't be able to sign Mike Wallace who was a big part of our offensive success last season.  

Bringing in guys who are over 30 only prolongs the truth. This team needs to get younger and fresher not older and stale. Yes, it was fun having Mason, Boldin, and Smith, but it never fixes the issue. Sure they play like a Raven, but they are not homegrown. This team has never had its own offensive Identity. It always plays second fiddle to the defense, that’s why Joe has to endure so many OC’s. Stop trying to bring in tough guys who fit the mold of our D to play offense. Instead cultivate a new identity for the offense to flourish. In 2014, the team could have moved up 5 spots (possibly trading the 2015 Perriman pic) and chose ODB instead of Mosely, in the second round they could have had Jarvis Landry, but the chose Timmy Jernigan, and in the third round they took Crockett Gilmore, instead of Devonta Freeman. Sure Mosely is a great player, but the Ravens stuck trying to hold on to past defensive glory, while teams around the league are becoming more offensively evolved.

You would make a heck of a GM,,,, If it was possible to make picks for the 2017 draft in 2021

49 minutes ago, metalraven said:

He is right about B Williams though.

yea I agree with him.  BW is not a three down guy.  He very rarely pushes the pocket in passing situations and even moderately mobile qbs can juke him out.  He isn't terrible at a lot of things but he is terrible at moving laterally, and that is what differentiates him from Ngata in his prime.  This is a passing league.  Id rather spend the money on and OLB or a CB especially with Pierce waiting in the wings.  Is Pierce better than BW at stopping the run now? No but he is not as far behind as people think.  Someone said that Pierce can only do a quarter of was BW can do which is ridiculous.  He is clearly better at getting to the QB and will become much more adept in stopping the run than he was this past year, after having a full NFL season under his belt.  The guy played at a small school, some work on his technique will go a long way.  The guy is clearly motivated as he was one of the strongest players on this team coming out of college.  Bottom line is that he played well last year against the run and the pass, and can only get better.  It would be nice to keep BW but we only have so many contracts like that to give out  We have to be judicious in our spending, and even though KO was the second best guard in the league last year behind MY it was still a good decision.  Giving a guard LT money is nuts no matter how you dice it.

  1 hour ago, sami said:

ya hate to pass up a great talent like him but we just don't need another tight end.

Ever notice when people get old they collect things they don't need?

Maybe we can hypnotize Joe and make him think that all of our recievers are TEs. Or better yet that all of our WRs are Dennis Pitta. Spread the ball around a bit.

We are not going to utilize his talent w/ Flacco. What is the point?

Yea Flacco always has horrible relationships with TE. He never gets them the ball. SAID NO ONE EVER

  1 hour ago, metalraven said:

Brandon Williams asks: "Where is the love?"

I ask: Where were you during that last quarter of the season?

Finally someone who know's football this guy wears down and takes plays off I like him at the right price but he is not worth top dollar we need to spend on pass rush and CB

I am just glad that we have a guy on here with 5 years of organized football experience like yourself. Your commentary is always so insightful.

  10 minutes ago, jsarrocohome@yahoo.com said:

  58 minutes ago, jravens1313 said:

Don't be surprised if we use a high pick on a TE. Right now we have a lot of guys that we can't rely with injuries. None of them have proven that they are top TE's although Pitta once was. This is also a strong class for the position.

I would be shocked because we don't need a TE we already have to many

I wouldn't. Watson is too old and coming back from an Achilles Injury. Gilmore is great when not Injured but he has had 3 serious injuries in the last 2 years. Maxx Williams is coming back from serious Knee injury and who knows how he will play. Pitta does not get separation or can block. Boyle can Block but gets suspended allot. If the TE from Alabama is their in the 1st round Ozzie will take him.

I doubt that. We have spent way to many resources on tight ends in recent years. We spent a third on Crockett, a second on Maxx and later picks on Boyle and Waller. Pitta will be here next year because we won't save much if we cut him. And if Pitta gained 736 yards "without getting separation" imagine what some of those young guys can do. Tight Ends use their body to box out and create separation. And for the most part they will have an advantage over the person covering them. If its a DB the TE can use his size to box out and if a LB, or a DE they can use there speed. You don't have to be Eric Ebron to be a good TE in this league. No way are we taking a TE in the first.

  2 hours ago, steelcityraven said:

We are lloaded on the DLine. We have Williams, M Pierce looks to be the next star DL in BMORE. Timmy J... played at a pro bowl level for at least the first half of the year. CDavis showed a lot of potential as a rookie two years ago before missing this season with injuries. We drafted WHenry who also showed some promise. LGuy has been a steal. We have BKafusi coming back.

So... if we lose Brandon... I think we will be okay but I would still hate to lose the guy. Pierce is only going to get better. Timmy keeps showing improvement every season. Kafusi will be an excellent addition next season and with Williams we really can be 2 deep and have the best DL rotation in the NFL.

So... while I think we can be okay if we lose BW... I think we can be great if we can retain him.

But I am also realistic enough to see that we have a great deal of other needs and with the depth we have on the DL... we don't want to break the bank for him...

We want him... he makes the offense we face one dimensional (cant run) so he has a high value -hope we really do make a competitive offer before March and get him locked up!

Don't know how much many of you know of BW. My fiancee works with kids with developmental disabilities and every time they ask for someone to visit kids, help with fundraising etc... who has been the Ravens to show for the last few years? Brandon and Crocket Gilmore. His camaraderie in the locker room that has been shared on many tweets shows just how much he is loved. He is willing to take a reasonable discount just to keep his kid in school here. AND he is the best nose tackle in the league, which, of course, is the most important. The days of letting our quality players go because we could find gold in dog doo no longer exists. Next man up is a great strategy if you have the cap space to load your roster with next men, we don't. Accumulating a billion draft picks by letting skilled players walk is now a failed strategy (which Ozzie showed last year by going out on the first days of free agency and snatching up quality free agents.) We will get just one comp pick for KO this year and we really tried everything to keep him but you can't pay a guard left tackle money unless you have a rookie QB making just 4 mil a year. We don't have that.

Anyone who thinks we will just be fine letting quality players walk, getting comp picks and hoping the next man up will be good enough needs to reread the first paragraph. That strategy worked great but is now obsolete and defunct in todays NFL.

Every team has to do it. I can assure you the if NE could afford to keep Jaime Collins and Chandler Jones they would have but, they could only pick one, and it looks like that guy is Hightower. It happens every year to every team even the Browns who a a ton of cap space every year. Alex Mack, Mitchel Shwartz, TJ Ward, Tashan Gibson, all pro bowlers... all gone

18 hours ago, fusuymada said:

Love Williams but Like KO there is going to be one team that is going to have an outrageous amount of money to throw at him and he would be a fool to turn it down and we simply can't afford to compete. With a 120 million dollar QB contract that should be about 75 mil. that would allow us some flexibility. Flacco has all the money that even the worst financial managers needs to maintain 15 generations of Flacco's so it is time he gave back to the team who has so generously given him a big pay day. Is he a Ravens player or is he chasing money. I think this is what we need to determine before this season starts. This is not asking too much I just think its the facts ma'am.

I hope people realize that continually posting things about how Flacco should give money back to the team does not increase the chances of that actually happening.  In fact it wont happen.  There aren't any other QBs in the league that have done that.  People here are always pointing out how good of a guy that Brady is for sacrificing a portion of his salary for the good of the team.  Little do they know that, that is not what he did at all.  He is still getting the money that was promised to him when he signed the contract, but they moved it around a little bit to free up cap space.  He was not taking a pay cut. And there is zero chance that Joe is going to take one, and at some point you are going to have to accept that fact.

  On 1/30/2017 at 2:39 PM, ravens4life86 said:

n#7, I agree they need Dline. They need pass rush most of all. I think they want to and are going to try to retain B.Williams, now if that price gets too high were going to find out how much they really like Pierce,Carl Davis, Willie Henry.
They will either ride or dies with that group. I dont think so, or find a NT/DT via draft or cheap vet in F/a maybe a Wilfork type on couple year deal to help vs run

Letting BWill go would not even be close to an option if we didn't come up with Pierce. Pierce is a stud, and cheap, so it makes things a little more interesting. I had higher hopes for Henry and Davis though. Absolutely zero production in 3 years combined. If we don't resign BWill, the money better be going towards a stud like Wagner, or Berry, or Gilmore.

I worry about Davis. We are going to really need him next year if BWill isnt resigned. I think he can turn into a solid player if he puts the work in. But I worry because hes been away from the team for so long and one of the knocks on him coming in was that he didn't have a great work ethic. Hopefully my concerns are unfounded. If he works on his strength and learns to keep his pad level low, he could be a heck of a player.

16 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

17 hours ago, hen826957 said:

The Ravens could've kept Courtney Upshaw but want a draft pick instead SMH.

LOL, what does Courtney Upshaw do well?

Do you fans realize that he really doesn't play that much for the Falcons? Like literally like a quarter of the defensive snaps.

Hes kind of irrelevant. Not even sure what position you think he would play on this team anyway.

Now come on jacket lets be fair.  He is really good at gaining weight during the off season, and coming into camp out of shape. I don't think he had to put on much weight when he converted to DT. A friend showed me his rookie season highlights the other day, and I gotta say I was a little taken aback. He looks like a totally different player. I remember him making some of those plays back then, but I completely forgot how athletic he looked when making them. I also forgot about his hustle that year, and that he had the ability to run down plays from the backside.  I don't think Courtney would have caused that .LaMichael James fumble in the Super Bowl in his second year.  Each year that he played for us he must have gained about 3 pounds, and as the weight increased his mobility decreased. And that wasn't a huge deal because his role was primarily focused on setting the edge, but I think if he would have kept the weight off he could have contributed more in passing situations.

15 hours ago, Asmodeus1971 said:

Just a post before I read the article that will probably be like a lot of the fluff pieces on here that never take the gloves off and hit the problems.

Inside the box (conventional thoughts)
1)improve the right side of the line

You have Yanda and Lewis who are both able to move pretty much anywhere on the line and except for Stanley at LT, where ever they are, honestly they are an upgrade. We need a RT like Stanley, that we can say he is the best at his position on the team. We don't need backups at tackle, we already have them in our guards. We need to find two guards that would be starters for most other teams. Someone gets injured we bring them in to play guard, if it was a tackle injured Yanda takes the right, Lewis takes the left. We need a better RT, very few of the sacks or QB rushes came from the left side. There were many games Wagner got beat bad. I don't care what grades he got or what some site says I watched the games. Wagner and Zuttah were consistently the weak spots on our o-line. The only time that wasn't true is when Hurst(bye) played.

On those two guards get the best you can get from the draft if possible. The o-line is the most important players on the offense, so don't be cheap get two players who will challenge for the starting spot and start them if they are best. If it turns out your starters become backups, so what that just means your starters are on rookie contracts so you can afford to have the best reserves in league.

Make Urschel the center and try to find someone to challenge him that if we have the room is on the roster but hopefully we can keep on the practice squad which should be kept stocked with o-line and DBs

2) Find receivers who can get open. If they run the route and Flacco still has the ball work back to him. Pay attention to what he is doing as often as possible so if he is under pressure you can turn and work toward him giving him a better chance when under pressure.

OUTSIDE THE BOX

1) draft your future QB

In the next two years draft a QB worthy of being a starter and make Flacco earn his job from that point on

2)Get a coach who can coach scrambling and make drills where Flacco needs to get out of the pocket. Emphasize getting rid of the ball and make it second nature, either pass it to your receiver, run if there is an opening or throw it to someone or no one out of bounds or ground it.

Are you sure that you were watching the Ravens this season? Ricky
Wagner was one of the op 5 RTs in the league. Zuttah was a middle of the road guy and didn't play nearly as bad as people think. He was the 13th best center in the league and was rated as the 5th best offensive player on our team this year. I certainly wouldn't be apposed to an upgrade there, but we better be sure that whoever that upgrade is, can play as well, or better than JZ. One thing I know for sure is that, that guy is not Urcshel. Unfortunately his IQ and all of the publicity he gets has not made him stronger or more athletic. Whenever he was in this year he got beat like a drum, which continued his streak of poor play from last season (odd thing is that during his rookie year he started a game or two at the end of the season along with both of our playoff games, and he did well. He wasn't outstanding but he was better than average. Im not sure what happened after that). He was constantly blown off the ball and that fact was represented in his final grade for the year. He was rated the 55th best guard in the league. The last time he got in on offense was in the Philly game. Zuttah had an injury late in the second quarter and came out for a play. Urschel came in the game and proceeded to get blown back five yards into Terrance West who was running the ball. Needless to say it was a 5 yard loss. There isn't any doubt in my mind that we wouldn have lost that game if Zuttah didn't come back in. Gino Gradkowski would look like an all star compared to Usrchel. If we loose Ricky Wagner this season you will be able to see what a bad RT looks like. Wagner has been one of the FO biggest success stories in the last 5 years. He came in for heavy sets in his Rookie year. The next year he started at RT and came in as the SECOND best RT in the league. The next year he dealt with injuries and came in as the 15 best RT. And this year he was in the top 5 again. And its not like Rick was a high draft pick. We got him in the 5th round. The reason that we wouldn't be able to keep him is because he has played so well and will most likely get an offer we can't match. Google his name, the guy is on about 15 different teams free agent wish lists.  Clearly the lists are made by the local media and have no bearing on FO desisions, but the guy is going to be in high demand.  I think Ricks production is going to be much more difficult to replace than B Wills. Good tackles, right or left, are scarce in this league. It would be nice to have those positions accounted for, for the foreseeable future. I also wouldn't be so quick to say that Lewis can play any where but LT. We really don't know. I would feel more comfortable with him playing at a guard spot though.  Drafting a QB to start is easier said than done

Zuttah is a joke in the pro bowl and needs to be the first to be replaced.

Pro bowl nod was a joke, most certainly. He was the 13th best center last year. Do you recall a career journeyman named Ducasse playing next to Zuttah for the last portion of the season? Pressure up the middle isn't always on the center. In fact in some cases it doesnt fall on any of the OL. If we do replace him we better be sure that we bring someone in either in FA or the draft that will at least be comparable to him. If we are going to use the zone blocking scheme for the majority of the time, we should keep him. That is where he excels. He will come in the top 10 next year if that is the case. But if we plan to use the power blocking scheme it would be nice to have an upgrade. But as of now there isn't anyone on our team that could fill that void.

On 1/29/2017 at 4:16 PM, TheConquerorWorm said:

On 1/28/2017 at 6:38 PM, RavensDieHard21 said:

I am also curious, Could banner play guard or would he better serve staying at RT and working on his footwork? 

No. Guards have to pull to get out front of the play, his footwork is not good and he's way too slow for that. He's a statue and that won't work in the NFL. Watched his tape against Cal and he was consistantly getting manhandled by Saffle (245 lbs) & Westerfield (250lbs) despite having 3 inches and 100 lbs over them. Plenty of times he would get a free run at a LB downfield and whiff as the LB flowed to the play. His tape against Washington is just as bad - many times the much smaller LB he was run blocking would make the tackle. Practice Squad material

Yea I am with you there. The guy has no urgency to his game.  It looks like hes out for a stroll in the park.  The weight issues are also worrisome.

How does the NFL select "Mr. Consistent" for AFC kicker and "Mr. Inconsistent" for Center?  Zuttah was the worst linemen by far for the Ravens on a line that was average.  He had costly penalties, inconsistent blocking, and the biggest liability for Flacco.  In addition, the accuracy on his snaps was too consistent for an NFL starter.  He is going to cost the team $4.6 million in 2017, but if cut would save us $2.4M in space to use (in part) to can find a better option.  I think nearly all Ravens fans want him gone, but now with his Pro Bowl selection you know Ozzie & Co. will be less likely to part ways with him.  Best option is to trade him, but I doubt there'd be any interest. 

It is clear that you are basing the majority of your opinion on the first 4 games of the season. During those games he had 2 mis-snaps and backed up on Joe twice. After those games he never did either. So the claim that his accuracy on his snaps was inconsistent is complete nonsense. But even if you were to take the entire season in to account you would be basing your opinion on about 1 percent of his plays because there is absolutely no way that your eyes were fixed on Zuttah for every single play during the year. So unless you do this....

https://www.profootballfocus.com/about/how-we-grade/

You have no way of gauging the entirety of his performance. Most of his troubles during those games occurred with second string guards beside him. How you projected his performance in the first four games on the rest of the season is beyond me, but it seems to be a common mistake. He was the 5th best player on our offense for the entire year. You are right about the penalties. The Dallas game and second Steelers game were when the most costly penalties occurred but during those games he blocked well. The other assumption that I think you may have made is that when pressure comes up the middle it is automatically the centers fault. Which is not the case at all. An example of this could be seen in the philly game. In that game Flacco was sacked twice by blitzers up the middle that were supposed to be picked up by the RB. But even if you didn't make that assumption, it would be hard for anyone to know who was to blame for pressure up the middle. There are just too many things that obstruct your view. The only reason I know about those Philly pressures is because they did a replay. Now lets get down to brass tacks. There is no way that he should have gone to the pro bowl. It was a huge reach, but he didn't play as inconsistently or poorly has you have stated. The guy was the 13 best center in the game last year which is really just the middle of the pack. But he was far from inconsistent and he had good accuracy on his snaps. He was also far from the worst player on the line. Ducasse was the worst player by a huge margin. It wasn't even close. I am not sure how you failed to see Ducasses shortcomings, which were prominent in every game. But with that I will say that I am not opposed to cutting him. I am not sure that his salary matches his middle of the road play. But before we let him go we would have to bring some guys in to fill the void either through FA or the draft. As of now there aren't any guys on the team that could perform even close to the level of the 13th best center in the game, which is a bit disheartening. I also don't think that Ozzy would let the fact that he made the pro bowl effect his decision on whether he stays or goes next year. If anything the PB increases the chances that another team would be willing to make a trade, although I don't think that is a likely scenario.

  2 hours ago, ellicottraven said:

  3 hours ago, potomacpitbulls said:

After watching Zay Jones, this kid is the real deal. His father and his uncle played in the NFL, they will help him transition. There is a reason he is the career leader in receptions with 399. How many balls do you think his uncle Jeff Blake threw to this kid teaching him route running. If this kid has a good combine and pro day he will rise fast. With both the Browns and Chicago in need of a WR, I don't see him lasting past them in the 2nd round. The Ravens need to take him in the first, besides he already is used to wearing purple playing at East Carolina. Corner is deep this year in the second or third target a corner like Adoree' Jackson.

Believe me, he'll be available for us in the second should we decide to take him. Won't be surprised if he is available in the 3rd as well. Player rankings don't shoot up after a senior bowl game imho.

I kindly disagree, with so many GM’s, and scouts at the senior bowl, if you have a nice game at the Senior Bowl it tends to elevate your draft stock. That why a guy like OJ Howard went. Case in point Joe went from a marginal 2nd to 3rd round pick to a 1st rounder. If he does well at the combine, and at his pro day, couple that with his Senior Bowl, his stock will rise fast. Plus, WR is thin this year.

That may be true but its way too soon to decide who we should take in the first. Not only are you saying that this guy is better than some really talented receivers, but also that he is better than the pass rushers, DBs, RBs, OLs, and LBs, that will be there when we pick. Plus we still have the combine to come. Flaccos rise wasn't based solely on his Senior Bowl performance. EJ Emanuel was the MVP of the 2013 senior bowl and we all know how that turned out.

5 hours ago, nj_ravens said:

THIS is a good reason why not to draft him. 170 pounds is pretty slight. But 4.4 speed for a back is good, that shouldn't be questioned, nor should we ever look at a running back and say "Man, he only runs a 4.4. Not worth it."

Yea Im with you there.  I don't even think making the decision not to draft him based soley on his weight is a good reason not to draft him.  Desean Jackson was 170 at the combine.  You really have to look at everything to determine weather he would be successful in this league.  I think Desean Jacksons are very very very rare, Its difficult to compete at that size, and there aren't many other examples of a guy who has been successful at that weight.  The next guy that comes to mind is Trindon Holiday.  I think he was probably drafted in the 7th round with the idea that he would only be able to compete on special teams.  Unfortunately for Pumphrey he already has the deck stacked against him because of his size and the fact that he played at San Diego State.