billiejean

8 hours ago, bigcatfrank1 said:

Im missing your points, both backs have eclipsed 1000 yd seasons and are proven playmakers.
I think you are rendering your opinion without factual statistics.
The Ravens must improve in the running game.
Pro Bowl playmakers, competition and veteran players are proven ways to achieve that in the NFL.

If you don't think the Ravens can utilize a veteran 1000 yd RB that is your opinion however West could have played his best year of his career this past year, we don't know, he certainly did not have 1000 yds in the past 5 seasons and Cleveland seemed to notice a similar pattern.

A sophomore RB who struggled his first year to take on the starter role is not a guaranteed situation either. I see more promise in Dixon than that of West or Allen, both of whom have had multiple years to show what they have, or don't have.

I just don't see taking a chance on the same three running backs again while knowing that the Ravens rely on an above average running game to put them in playoff contention.

Latavius Murray has only hit the 1000 yards mark once, and Lacy has a total of 1118 yards for the last two years.  These are "factual statistics".  Sure we could "utilize a veteran 1000 yd RB" but we have much more pressing needs.  Another "fact" which you seem to have misrepresented is that Cleveland's release of West had nothing to do with his production.  Frank.... picking up either Latavius or Eddy would be a huge mistake.  Such a big mistake that there aren't any guys in the front office even considering it.  You and probably only about 100 other Ravens fans would actually think this is a good idea.  Could we use running back help? Absolutely, and we have both the draft and FA to add a few running backs, but under no circumstances will we be trying to throw money at the top two backs in FA this year.

  On 2/18/2017 at 2:11 AM, TheConquerorWorm said:

  On 2/18/2017 at 0:45 AM, bigcatfrank1 said:

  On 2/17/2017 at 6:56 PM, jsarrocohome@yahoo.com said:

  On 2/17/2017 at 5:00 PM, bigcatfrank1 said:

keep Williams

only if the price is right I mean what games did some of you guys watch for Christ sake this guy is good But NOT Great and should make nowhere close to 10 mill a year and with we overpay him we will be set back again I would rather have a top CB or Receiver

I watched every game, no one played as well as Willams. Sure The Ravens young guys did a good job, however big guys cannot play all the downs no matter who they are. So your point is you would rather give up first downs, control of the ball and possibly multiple scores.

No one is arguing getting a CB, It can be done but lets stay in contention.

Williams shut down run games, he has the capability of playing some pass however its not his best suit. The Ravens have no veteran DL if Williams goes. I believe he is an anchor of the team. He is a leader on and off the field.

I would give up Zuttah and Dumervil for Williams any day of the week.
I would risk a Rookie Center or developing a replacement, than a weakened DL. The LB crew will be fine without Doom.

As far as a WR, the Ravens can afford one with the loss of SSr.

I argue that the Ravens have the space to keep Williams. If you are saying you don't want him, that is just something that we disagree on.

I agree 100%. And getting a "top CB or WR" means $12 million+. Garcon wants $9 million & Brandon Marshall (if cut) wants $12 million. That's a lot of cash to pay for an old WR. CB Stephon Gilmore wants $14 million.

Cutting Dumervil, Shareece Wright & Kyle Arrington gets you the money to sign Williams ($10 million+). You're going to replace Wright with a CB in the draft anyway. Same with Arrington.

Cutting Watson & Kendrick Lewis gets you most of the money to resign Wagner. All 5 of those guys have in house replacements. And more importantly, your entire O-line stays intact (Ravens were 4-0 last year when they all started together).

If you didn't cut anyone else, you'd still have about $9 million to go out and get a veteran WR/CB/ILB. Add in at least 1 maybe 2 top CB in the draft and this defense looks infinitely better - BWill, Pierce, Suggs, Judon, Mosley, Peanut, Weddle, Webb, Jimmy, Tavon, Draft CB, Draft CB, Draft S. Still have Kaufusi, KC, Davis, Henry, ZaDarius, Canady waiting in the wings.....That's a Top 5 defense.

I think your cuts are reasonable, I would not pay Garcon or Marshal the big money. I would only pick them up for low cash deals with maybe a trade.


Otherwise I would put the 9 mil out for L Murray or Lacy boost our Running Backs to the Super Bowl level and take a vet WR for a lower price like Cruz or B LaFell. That would be the only difference considering that I just don't think the Ravens will retain Wagner.

Keep Williams (up to 11 mil., 4/$44 should do it )

I agree with the LB corp, adding a 4/5 draft pick will be fine.

CB #1
Ravens will need to pick up a Center at #2.
WR/S #3 or #4
LB- Pass Rush #5
O-line Guard #6

Neither of those running backs would be a huge upgrade from what we have. Eddie Lacey cant keep his hands out of the cookie jar. He has not played well for the last two years. And someone is going to overpay Murray

I agree, Round 1, draft Solomon Thomas if he slips to us, Or go get the Raven born Jamal Adams!
Then select the Ohio State or LSU Center in round 2.
Get a edge/DE in round 3 and/or trade a few low round draft choices for another 2nd rounder, then do it again and get a RB in the 2 or 3 rounds. I would rather we got talent that can play NOW than just a high number of picks who just end up as bench warmers. We already have plenty of them.

Unfortunately you can't just "trade a few low round draft choices" to move up. It takes a lot more than that to move up 16 spots. First you want to get rid of all the tight ends so we can draft one in the first, and now you want trade all of our picks away until we only have four left? We wouldn't have enough players to make 53 if you were pulling the strings my friend. Im not trying to give you a hard time because I know youre new to this. Im just trying to reel you back down to reality a bit. But quality depth is extremely important especially because our guys have trouble staying healthy and thats what the later rounds are for (every once in while you find a quality starter down their too) But it isnt out of the question to move up once in the first three rounds (possibly more depending how many spots we have jumped). But its a long season, and we have a lot of spots to fill/upgrade. We need all the help we can get.

9 minutes ago, OzzieBisciotti said:

Because they are bffs, Pitta got his $3M bonus/ salary back, and a lot of it had to do with these 5-8 yard dinks to pitta bread. How many times do you remember when Flacco hit pitta bread with a 20 yard pass? Exactly...

Again are you serious? Do you really think that the only reason that Joe threw the ball to Pitta as many times as he did was so that Pitta could get his 3 mil bonus. Cmon man you cant really believe that.  That is nonsense.  And the amount of times Joe got the ball to Pitta for 20 yard or more has no relevance to your argument. 

1 hour ago, sizzlingdoom said:

Wow, you're right about Upshaw and those highlights. Definitely faster, quicker, and lighter in his rookie year. I hardly recognized him. So glad we didn't resign him last year. You're right, if he was hungry, determined, and wanted to play his best, he'd come into camp at 265, not 295. I don't know what's gonna happen with Z. Seems like he has potential, but I think the fans have heard that word enough in recent years LOL I think we have so much talent up front between everyone. I think the pass rush comes alive this year. If we would just invest in a #1 corner via FA or the draft, this defense can easily sit in the top 3 all year. As long as our DC doesn't PREVENT that from happening

Totally different dude out there.  Running down plays from the back side, staying home on counters (which is impressive for a rookie), and just getting after it until the whistle is blown.  He made a lot of clutch plays for us that year both in the regular season and playoffs.  I don't think he could have made a lot of those stops in his second year.  I think the forced fumble that he caused (Lamichael James) in the superbowl embodies what kind of player he was in his rookie year.  The guy dives to make a tackle in the back field and misses, he gets up and lays a brutal hit on James causing the fumble.  That was big.  I certainly wouldn't classify the guy as a bust but he didn't live up to expectations.  Im sure the FO thought he would be a bigger factor in the pass game. I mean the guy had 16.5 sacks in his last two years at Bama.  But he did fill Jared Johnsons spot (feel bad for JJ leaving just before the superbowl, that dude was a Raven through and through) I am hopeful for Z though. I think hes probably a bit more flexible than Upshaw and just needs to work on some technique things.  But if he doesn't work out we could alway resign Arthur Brown and move him to OLB. ( ;

I also think we need to break up the best friend trio of Flacco, Pitta, and Juice- they all hang out like best buddies, and frankly, I feel uncomfortable with them being so close- that's why our offense isn't that good. Flacco helped his personal stylist, Pittta bread, get a $3M bonus last year (one reason our cap is so low too) because he threw all these short passes/ dinks to Pitta all the time because they are bffs.. I don't know what Oz was thinking bringing Watson here - while a nice man, he's also an old man. At this point, we need to let Watson and Pitta walk because they are too expensive- and we should also let Juice walk because he's overated. bottom line, this team isn't very good- we can't even keep average players like Pitta, Watson and Juice because of poor cap manahgement and years of terrible drafts- we have no base/ foundation of young players, and we sign old players on the cheap (Ozzies' favorite strategy), and now look what we have to deal with. Oz and DaCosta aren't good GMs when they have to devote a lot of money to a QB- it's much harder to keeep a good team together when unelite Flacco takes up 22M or whatever it is...

Your are uncomfortable with Flacco being friends with guys on the offensive side of the ball ? I hope you are joking here. He isn't throwing dinks and dunks to Pitta because they are BFFs. He is throwing them because the WRs down the field are covered or at least he has the perception that they are covered. Do you want him to force it into coverage. If Crockett Gilmore or Maxx or whoever were out there instead of Pitta he would be throwing to them. Because of their close relationship they are more in sync with each other. You need to invert your statement. Instead of wanting Joe and Pitta to end their friendship, you should be hoping that he develops similar relationships with his other receivers on the team. Being angry because Pitta gained 720 yards last year is absurd. Cmon man.

  9 hours ago, bioLarzen said:

Although he, Dixon and Tavon Young all had very promising rookie seasons, there are countless examples why we should all wait until they have their sophomore seasons under their belt. Just look at ZaDarius Smith, who, after a very good rookie season, had a rather pedestrian sophomore season. Which is the real Z? We'll see... Let's hope that all of the three aforementioned rookies turn out to be the real deals - but let's not just take it for granted now.

I hear what you're saying. But I'm not sure anyone quite fell in love with Z the way a lot have with these 3. Even with Z's sacks, it seemed like a lot were coverage sacks, not off of talent as much. I do think he's a much much more talented version of Upshaw though for the most part.
I hear you, and I may be wrong, but I think Pierce, tavon, and Dixon are all the real deal. For sure. So stoked on all of them.
I think they can all eventually make the pro bowl. Probably not by next year, but who knows. Can't imagine how much better this franchise would of got if we did as well in rounds 2 and 3 as we did in the rest of the draft for the most part. Instead we might have another couple of serious whiffs on our hands. Zero production from them after year 1. We'll find out a ton about them this year

Im with you there. Hopefully Z can put something together with two years under his belt. I wouldn't say he was much more talented than Upshaw though. Upshaw was really good at stopping the run and Z isn't really good at anything as of yet. The problem with Upshaw was that his mobility decreased with each season. He made a lot of really good plays in his rookie year because of his tenacity which also seemed to decline as the years past. I looked at his rookie highlights a few months ago and he looked like a totally different player. Obviously youre not getting the whole picture by looking at highlights but he looked so much faster than he was the last three seasons he played for us. But when you come into camp at 295 and youre supposed to be 270 a decline in performance should be expected.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aWjjH_ZYtE

9 hours ago, bioLarzen said:

Although he, Dixon and Tavon Young all had very promising rookie seasons, there are countless examples why we should all wait until they have their sophomore seasons under their belt. Just look at ZaDarius Smith, who, after a very good rookie season, had a rather pedestrian sophomore season. Which is the real Z? We'll see... Let's hope that all of the three aforementioned rookies turn out to be the real deals - but let's not just take it for granted now.

I dont think he had a good rookie season. He had a lot more playing time a year ago but there wasn't anything above average about his performance. A lot of his sacks were manufactured with stunts. He played better against the run this year but not well enough. He needs to work on pass rushing moves. Clearly, I wasn't able to watch him on all of the plays that he played in this year but when I was the only move that he utilized was the bullrush.  Regardless of that I agree that expectations should be tempered for second year guys.

The fact that his run stopping grade was higher than Brandon's is surprising. I think that no matter what, Jernigan and Pierce are going to play heavily next season. I think if Brandon leaves in FA, the microscope is really going to get put on Willie Henry.

dont forget about carls jr. We ill prob draft a guy too

On 2/16/2017 at 11:23 AM, Asmodeus1971 said:

If the left side when Stanley was in was so good and not allowing hardly sacks or even QB rushes, then where were they happening? Wagner got beat often and some reason still was scored good on that joke of a scoring system. Him and Zutah are our main weaknesses on offense period. Second, would be the fact that we don't have any WRs that know how to get open or play back to the QB if he is under pressure. That could be in the coaching, it could be on the players. Wagner just isn't worth the money.

15 NFL teams pay thousands of dollars for the joke scoring system that you speak of.  For starters Stanley gave up more sacks than Wagner did this year.  So that pretty much blows two of you assertion out of the water.  The weakest player on our line last year was by far and away Ducasse.  Wagner is far from a weakness.  In fact he is one of the best players at his position.  How you came to the conclusion that you know more about a players talent than every other reporter or coach in the NFL is beyond me.  You would be hard pressed to find anyone  that criticized Wagners 2nd and 4th season. As I said 3rd season was a down season because he had a hard time staying healthy.  It would behoove you to learn how something works before criticizing it.  NFL teams are not paying PFF to play pin the tail on the donkey.  Below is an in depth description of how they rate players with that "joke scoring system".  

https://www.profootballfocus.com/about/how-we-grade/

5 hours ago, Crusader said:

The question mark ends the sentence. Simple question if you ask me "How....do.....you....guys....determine...who's....a.....BUST....or.....NOT?"

I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt on this one and assume this answer was made in jest. 

"Serious Question, how do you guys determine who's a BUST OR NOT?" Their not in the NFL after 4 years of trying.

Cmon crusader read the whole response. He wasn't talking about how to determine a bust after a guy is in the NFL for four years.

  1 hour ago, Azzi22 said:

Serious Question, how do you guys determine who's a BUST OR NOT? talking Correia... how are you guys judging him already? we haven't even seen him play on D yet.... some 2nd rounders played this year and made a mockery of the team that chose them and a fool of themselves.(Dodd(titans)---Jaylen Smmith (cowboys)--- myles jack(jags)--- list goes on and on...
give the guy a chance.. we have NO CLUE what hes capable of...he will be just fine..

It's the same people who will come on here next off season and say how they told everyone that KC was worth the pick and he just needed time. The same people that came on here and said that C. Upshaw wasn't worth keeping. They didn't seem to know how well he played for us, especially against the run. Now they are on here saying that we should have kept him and it's all Harbaugh's fault . SMH

If we want Upshaw he will be available. They only signed him to a one year show me deal. He didn't do anything noteworthy with Atlanta and only got playing time because Derek Shelby tore his achilles. The 6 games before the injury to Shelby, Upshaw was only activated for three of them. For the rest he was a healthy scratch.

9 hours ago, bioLarzen said:

The Chiefs have all the fun with a guy the likes of Tyreek Hill with all the sea of character concerns - and I don't see the public image of the Chiefs fall a notch - and we're still at the "don't expext the Ravens to draft this or that guy because he did something wrong ONCE." Maybe that's part of the explanation why we have become a regular feature of the "look who's missed the playoff" game while teams like the Chiefs are in...

As for Mixon, there were multiple reports that he's well liked by staff members, players, coaches - and basically everybody, and did what he did ONCE. That doesn't make it OK of course - but I do think the public image ramifications of selecting players with such cases have been way overblown in Baltimore. I can understand that the Rice case caused some shellshock - but it would be high time to leave it behind... You won't win many games in the NFL with a team of gentlemen.

The amount of draftable players that have domestic violence concerns is so small that it in no way affects our drafting success. And contrary to popular belief we haven't shied away from drafting people with other types of character concerns. Alex Lewis knocked out an Air Force cadet and spent 45 days in jail because of it. And its not like all of these guys with off field concerns automatically turn their life around once they get into the NFL. For every Tyreek Hill there is a Josh Gordan, Johnny Manziel, Aaron Hernandez, or Brendan Merriweather. Being well liked by coaches, players and staff members doesn't mean that you aren't a scum bag. When you are the number 1 running back recruit in the nation people are going to like you. Playing time is going to be abundant and as long as you have a good attitude on the football field coaches and players are going to like you. But it is clear that Mixon has let this adulation go to his head. Mixon and his ego have been an issue for a while now. Even in High School his big man on campus persona has been a problem as USMC has pointed out below. There were multiple times during the dispute when Mixon could have walked away. The most notable was after the verbal altercation outside. There was a 20 second gap between the time the girl enters the door and when Mixon does. He could have let it go but no.... this guy would not be disrespected in front of his friends. There is also the incident of the parking ticket which happened more recently. This is the quote from wiki... "Oklahoma suspended Mixon for one game in 2016 after an incident involving him and a parking attendant. After receiving a parking citation, Mixon confronted the attendant, tore the citation in half, and threw the pieces, which hit her in the face. According to the incident report, he then "inched at the officer" with his vehicle "to intimidate the officer". When anyone challenges this guys authority or if he perceives someones actions as disrespectful he has no problem trying to intimidate smaller and weaker people. I don't want a guy like that on my team. He is a scumbag.  I do agree that their is a double standard in perception between the Ravens and other teams.  Another example was when Frank Clark drafted by Seattle.  

3 hours ago, Cawtious said:

Oh, I'd be the last person to sell him short.  His situation is similar as Reid's.  He could very well be pulled away and hit a big payday.  Reid did struggle.....no doubt. 

As for PFF, I tend to trust FilmStudy's analysis over theirs. 

I think you hit in on the head on Jensen's "consistency" problems.  I also think they stem from bouncing him all over the line.  He was a co-captain during the Raiders game and then he's benched the rest of the season.  I didn't see anything remotely close to warranting that action.  I think there is more than meets the eye.  He didn't have any reported off the field issues, nor any on the field issues.  He didn't have an inordinate amount of penalties.  Ducasse played well towards the end of that stretch, but I didn't see him outplay Jensen on the field IMHO.  Perhaps it came down to playing the guys they are paying higher salaries and using them up.  Perhaps they wanted Jensen to roll into 2017 in great health to make a run at supplanting Zuttah.  It's hard to know.  Same with Urschel.......

To me, it was perplexing to see both Jensen and Urschel sit out, but I surely don't know the situation full enough to understand if there were problems with either of them.  I know I'll get the meritocracy argument, but I think players getting paid to play......play.  Guys with lesser financial draw sit more often all things be equal with their level of play.

Jensen rolls into next year healthy and with 4 seasons under his belt.   I think even with an original round tender, the Ravens are going to get pushed by someone to pony up a contract for him or he's gone.  I don't see his wire being quiet.  Urschel will be back for his final year of his rookie contract.  I think he's one more concussion from calling it a career.  Guy is probably losing money playing football with a mind like his. 

Its going to be an interesting March......

Yea, I had actually never heard of film study.  I am not sure if this is the right site or not but when I googled film study the site NFL breakdowns comes up.  There is some interesting stuff on there.  Or is the film study you are talking about on the Russel street report?  Either way both interesting but they do something totally different that PFF.  Instead of analyzing every single play they only analyze a handful of plays per game and from what I have seen there is no grading system (could be at the wrong site though).  PFF has its flaws but its a comprehensive analysis that takes into account every single play that a player has had in that year.  There is a grade given for every single play regardless of a players role in that particular play.  For example if Dixon is in the game but he doesn't get the ball, he is still given a grade based on his blocking, route running, or anything else that he was supposed to do on that play.  There is a link below that shows exactly what they do.  But I think the Film Study sites also provide useful analysis, just in a different way.  I think all we can hope for March is that there is plenty of good young competition at the interior OL positions and RT if Rick leaves.  If he does leave, which is more than likely, I am holding out hope that A Lewis will be able to adequately replace him but we wont know until he gets out there.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/about/how-we-grade/

  10 hours ago, Ravens8383 said:

While I would love for Williams and Wagner to both stay its not worth throwing more and more money their way if they don't want to be a Raven. I look at players like Suggs who want to retire Ravens and worked with the FO to make it work for both himself and the team. Those are the players I want to see on this team.

Agree, Wagner hasn't done much. He has had chances, to solidify his position or talking potential, he hasn't proven his in 4 years.

Again I cant believe that you are making such outlandish statements. He has solidified his position. Im not sure what talking potential is. Hes been one of the best RTs in the league in 2014, and 2016, with an injury plagued down year in 2015. It probably the time to concede the fact that you don't know enough about OL players to give an accurate assessment of their performance.

  13 hours ago, ByTheBay said:

  14 hours ago, bigcatfrank1 said:

I think you are stretching things about every position, its a match game when you are facing FA with the talent the Ravens have.
I find it amazing how its said there is so much to need, yet, we value every player we have?
Lets look at it just a little more in detail instead of generalizing- Jacket is correct;

Tackle or a Guard in the draft - added to Stanley, Lewis, Yanda, Jenson, Urshel, newbies- Nembot, Skura, Pughsley, De Ondre with an option at Ducasse.

QB, TE, strong RB and WR good but could use some strengthening

The D line is solid, just need to decide on Williams.
The LB corp is well above average.
Safeties corp finished well last year, solid for the most part.

CB is the position of big need for the Ravens .

The Ravens are in better shape than many NFL teams, They need to tweek things and maybe be a little more risky in my opinion.

I'm really not trying to be an alarmist but the way I see our roster is this:

Offense:

QB - set

RB - I am fine with what we have but so many feel we could use an upgrade

TE - I am fine with what we have but so many feel we could use an upgrade

WR - Need to replace SSS and maybe Aiken

Oline - Need to replace Zuttah and maybe Wagner and add bigger stronger depth

 

Defense:

Safety - Webb needs to be upgraded

CB - Need upgrade opposite Jimmy and possibly another quality addition to back up jimmy when he misses games as he does

MLB - need to replace Orr

OLB - need more pass rush

Oline - there will most likely be a drop off in production if Williams goes so we will need to try and help Pierce and maybe Davis if they are not up to the task. 

 

So thats every group but QB, RB and TE. I know we have young draft picks that should be able to fill some of these voids but the FO doesnt speak about them with confidence. I think we will field a respectable team next season but it will be a surprise if they can fill all of those weaknesses. I also have high hopes that Maxx will have a big year after setting rookie TE records last year. And our draft picks from last year may also contribute in a possitive way taking some of the pressure off the FO. 

Why are Ravens so hot on Wagner. What has done, nothing to speak of? Can anyone tell me why is so coveted? Same with Ureshal. If they are so good, why aren't they starting?

Ummmm yea. Youre right about Urschel but Rick has played extremely well. He has started the last three years. Injuries hampered him in 2015 and he ended up having a down year but in 2014 he was rated as the league best RT in the league and as the 5th best tackle (RT or LT). This past year he was rated as the 6th best RT. Its pretty darn good for a fifth round draft pick. I am not sure how you came to the conclusion that he has done, "nothing to speak of". He is coveted and he deserves to be coveted.

  On 2/10/2017 at 9:53 AM, trevorsteadman said:

  On 2/10/2017 at 9:39 AM, RaRaRavens said:

And roster fillers is what you get when you trade back in draft and skip on the likes of Myles Jack, Noah Spence and Sterling Shepard, and then draft KC.

Yeah you're right.... Myles Jack who had a whole 24 tackles his rookie season... Noah Spence who only had 5.5 sacks while Matt Judon the team's 5th round selection got 4 sacks almost as many behind Suggs and Dumervil most the season.... And Sterling Shephard a #3 receiver. 

Think of the selections the team got while trading back... Kamalei Correa may not be an immediate impact but look at the 4th rounders the team got in return that DID have a huge impact. They wouldn't be in Baltimore if not for the trades.

Spence had 5.5 sacks and 3 FF. And might be the best pass rusher from the class aside after Bosa.
Sterling Shepard is easily going to be a top 5 slot wr for the next decade- he was the number 2 wr as a rookie, not 3. And only behind Beckam. Shepard- 683 yards and EIGHT tds.
Michael Thomas- 1,137 yards and NINE tds
Deion Jones and Cody Whitehair slid too and are now future pro bowl main stays.

AND KC might not ever be good enough to start. ever. AB2.0.

And Henry hasn't played at all yet, Moore hasn't done anything yet, and Lewis hasn't proven anything yet. Love Dixon and Young.

Spence, Thomas, Shepard, and Whitehair are all future pro bowlers and are huge areas of need for us.

I know some want to wait. But that pick was absurd. Instead of filling a huge area of need with a future pro bowler, or very good player at the very least, we chose a "hustle" player without a position that might not ever be good enough to start, let alone be an impact player. Everyone in the draft saw him as a pass rusher. BUT, he can't take on tackles so now we're "making" him an ILB. If that's the case he has every single opportunity in the world to start this year. He could've played when Mosely was out last year. It's put up this year for him, or it's another awesome high round pick setting us back even more. There's no way around it. Hopefully he shuts us nay sayers up this year, but I'm not counting on it. We'll see. Kufasi too, another hustle player... :/ Shepard and Thomas...the chain mover and red zone target we need right now...
This class is loaded with talent. ESP CORNER OZZIE. If we blow more high round picks this year.......ravens fans are soon going to be going "remember when we had those 8-8 years?? That was awesome". The browns have a bunch of picks and money, they'll even pass us up soon. Not making the playoffs this year was just pathetic

Its ridiculous to judge a draft class after one year. You can't look at what a guy has done in his first year in the league, and assume that they are going to keep being able to do it (or not be able to doing it) for the rest of their careers. The name RG3 and Vince Young come to mind. Jay Ajayi and Landon Collins had terrible rookie seasons. And I mean absolutely terrible. This year they were 2 of the best players in their respective position groups.

The only way that we should take this guy is if he becomes a UDFA. The guy is soooo slow. He is so ridiculously unathletic and he gets consistently beat by smaller, faster guys. Before suggesting that we should use a third rounder on the guy at least look at some of his tape, even just a little bit of it. The guys is stiff and he has a difficult time keeping his pad level low. Hes an upright guy that will never be starting caliber OL. Not at Gaurd or Tackle. At first I thought that he was just a low effort guy. However I have come to the conclusion that he is in fact giving it his all, but he is just so slow and stiff that he looks lackadaisical. Size isnt everything in the NFL. His weight issues are a red flag as well. He has gotten up to 400 pounds at some points during is college career. He has had this weight problem every year and there are legitimate concerns about his dedication to perfecting his craft in the offseason. And when you weigh as much as this guy does shedding weight shouldn't be too difficult. Its not all bad news for this guy though.  He is going to get the nobel peace prize for his part in answering the age old question.... "Who stole the cookie from the cookie jar" .He is already falling down draft boards from a projected 3rd rounder to a 4th, and his combine performance is going to take him down even further. He reminds me of this guy.....

http://www.maxpreps.com/m/article.aspx?articleid=10a8c937-62dc-41c7-b7b6-54028c9b95be

  23 hours ago, trevorsteadman said:

  23 hours ago, RaRaRavens said:

And roster fillers is what you get when you trade back in draft and skip on the likes of Myles Jack, Noah Spence and Sterling Shepard, and then draft KC.

Yeah you're right.... Myles Jack who had a whole 24 tackles his rookie season... Noah Spence who only had 5.5 sacks while Matt Judon the team's 5th round selection got 4 sacks almost as many behind Suggs and Dumervil most the season.... And Sterling Shephard a #3 receiver. 

Think of the selections the team got while trading back... Kamalei Correa may not be an immediate impact but look at the 4th rounders the team got in return that DID have a huge impact. They wouldn't be in Baltimore if not for the trades.

Spence had 5.5 sacks and 3 FF. And might be the best pass rusher from the class aside after Bosa.
Sterling Shepard is easily going to be a top 5 slot wr for the next decade- he was the number 2 wr as a rookie, not 3. And only behind Beckam. Shepard- 683 yards and EIGHT tds.
Michael Thomas- 1,137 yards and NINE tds
Deion Jones and Cody Whitehair slid too and are now future pro bowl main stays.

AND KC might not ever be good enough to start. ever. AB2.0.

And Henry hasn't played at all yet, Moore hasn't done anything yet, and Lewis hasn't proven anything yet. Love Dixon and Young.

Spence, Thomas, Shepard, and Whitehair are all future pro bowlers and are huge areas of need for us.

I know some want to wait. But that pick was absurd. Instead of filling a huge area of need with a future pro bowler, or very good player at the very least, we chose a "hustle" player without a position that might not ever be good enough to start, let alone be an impact player. Everyone in the draft saw him as a pass rusher. BUT, he can't take on tackles so now we're "making" him an ILB. If that's the case he has every single opportunity in the world to start this year. He could've played when Mosely was out last year. It's put up this year for him, or it's another awesome high round pick setting us back even more. There's no way around it. Hopefully he shuts us nay sayers up this year, but I'm not counting on it. We'll see. Kufasi too, another hustle player... :/ Shepard and Thomas...the chain mover and red zone target we need right now...
This class is loaded with talent. ESP CORNER OZZIE. If we blow more high round picks this year.......ravens fans are soon going to be going "remember when we had those 8-8 years?? That was awesome". The browns have a bunch of picks and money, they'll even pass us up soon. Not making the playoffs this year was just pathetic

You would be a really great GM if you could pick players for the 2017 draft in 2021. But if you are going to talk the talk you should walk the walk. In this years draft you should be your own GM. When the Ravens are on the clock, draft a player that is still on the board, and then post your picks in a forum. At the end of the year later we will compare your draft to Ozzys. Lets see how you fare when you have to choose players in REAL TIME and without the benefit of hindsight. I am actually being serious about this. I think everyone who thinks they know more about talent evaluation than the Ravens front office should do this. Clearly, I think that you will fail miserably, but if you don't I would certainly be impressed.

If they are looking at O line help start at the center position. Our center always got pushed around, couldn't help in opening even a small path for RB's.

Not exactly true. He was fifth highest graded player on offense for the entirety of the year. He is more of a zone guy than a power blocker, but to say he got pushed around a lot just isn't true. There was that one game in the beginning of the year where he backed up on Joe twice (its not an excuse but Jensen and Urschel were the guards in the a game) and then another early game where he had 1 bad snap. People seem to have extrapolated those two performance across the entirety of the season. The guys not an all star and certainly didnt deserve to go to the Pro Bowl. He is a middle of the road guy ranked as the 13 best center in the league. And he was ranked 9th the year before that. If we keep him and start to use the zone blocking scheme more often he should fair better than he did this year. Either way we need to bring in some competition for those interior lineman spots.

18 hours ago, Chuckx999 said:

If the TE from Ala. is there in the draft, take him, cut all but one from the gang of TE's we have. Whom ever they keep just make sure he a healthy one. Pitta can be cut, to save some money. He is due for another breakdown anyway.
Please don't draft another WR. We know Ozzie can't pick the good ones.
We need CB's, LB's DE's and a center. A starting QB would be great. "Old 3 and out Flacco" must go SOON!!!!

Why in the world would be do that. Teams usually carry at least 3 TE. Only having two on the roster is out of the question. Spending a first rounder on a position that we have spent numerous draft picks on in the past few years, just doesn't make sense. We have too many holes to fill as it is . If we drafted a TE it wouldn't fill any of them. And by cutting all of our TE but one we would be squandering the draft picks we have made in the last few years. We would have to get real lucky if we wanted to find a staring qb because there is no way that we are going to spend an early round pick on a qb. We could take one late to use as a backup but the QBs that have a legitimate chance to be starters in their first years are going to be long gone by then

3 hours ago, Cawtious said:

Disagree.  Jensen can, and has played in all of the interior positions and also had a game at Tackle during pre-season .  The Ravens will tender him, but I think he's been underestimated by most and may sign elsewhere.  Think Jah Reid.  KC paid big money for him even after he was cut and placed on waivers.

 

Other teams recognize that our lineman are capable.  The fans don't seem to think it very often.  

I wouldn't call Jah Reid capable.  He started some games his first season there because of injuries and didn't play all that well.  This past year he didn't get in much but when he was in he played terribly.  When a team is willing to throw out money for a guy, it doesn't automatically make him "capable"

This is a quote from PFF preseason primer for the Chiefs before last spring...."with backup option Jah Reid performing even worse playing tackle last season — his 92.9 pass blocking efficiency was 13th-worst among qualifying players.'

And this is from January "Jah Reid is the backup swing tackle. Unfortunately, the team is not in a very good position with him. After playing well against Houston in 2015, Reid took a back seat and a huge step backward in 2016. With reduced to playing time, his play quality diminished as well. His poor play was highlighted at the end of the season when he was on the field as a sixth offensive lineman."

Even as a 6th lineman he has played terribly.... This is after their playoff loss t the Steelers.  "Backup lineman Jah Reid entered the game for one play where his man used a simple speed rush around the edge to halt Smith’s throwing motion, resulting in an interception.

Its the same story with Oher.

All of that said, I think you are selling Jensen short by comparing him to Reid.  I think he is better than Reid ever was.  If we bring guys in and Jensen beats them out that would be awesome.  The only problem with him is consistancy.  One week he would have the best pff grade on our offence and then the next he would have the worst.  That isn't hyperbole either that really happened in 2015 a few times.  But to be fair, it is hard to be consistent if you are not consistently in the game as a starter.  In that 2015 season he really did show promise after he got into the swing of things.  I wasn't necessarily implying that Jensen couldnt play center.  It was an assumption on my part that he wasn't working at C much this season, based on the fact that he was a healthy scratch for 8 games this year while Urschel (who  plays both C and G) was activated.  Killing two birds with one stone type of things.  But I was probably being a bit too presumptuous.  There could be another reason.  Why do you think he was inactive for so many games?

10 hours ago, JamesA119 said:

13 hours ago, FloridalovesRavens said:

  15 hours ago, jravens1313 said:

I can't believe Hensley cited "domestic violence" as a reason we wouldn't sign Marshall. When can we admit humans make mistakes? Marshall seems way past his immature days and is the guy we should target if released. Garcon is another viable option, but I also like Aiken who makes plays when given the opportunity.

We keep talking about getting more weapons for Flacco. Helping Flacco. What if Flacco isn't that good? Maybe we should be a run first team like the Cowboys. We have already over-invested in Flacco twice and now we want to cater the offseason to Flacco. That isn't a recipe for winning.

PS: My 2012 Flacco jersey will be donated to a fan this year.

If it weren't for Flacco there would not be a SB win! You need to donate his jersey because you obviously don't cherish it.

I disagree. We would have still won without Flacco. The fact really is that without pro bowl players around him, Flacco can't even get to the playoffs let alone Super Bowl .

thats absurd, how many probowl recievers or TE has Joe played with. The only receiver that made the probowl during our superbowl year was Jacoby, and he made it as a return guy. In fact Joe has never played with a WR or TE that made the probowl while playing for the Ravens. in the 2012 joe had one of the best post season performances in NFL history. Has he played like that since then.... no. But it is crazy to think that we would have won the superbowl without that high level of play from Joe. You cant just rewrite history in order to fit your narrative. If Joe loses every single game for the rest of his career, it still won't take away the fact that he had a remarkable playoff run in 2012 that not just any old QB could reproduce. I am not sure if you realize this, but there is this thing called "time". Currently, we are not able to manipulate time in a non linear fashion.  And because of this it is impossible for future events to alter events that have occurred in the past. The only thing that can be altered is your perception.


 

  On 2/7/2017 at 3:15 PM, Azzi22 said:

hard nose plays like a raven.. we need more players like this... we need an IDENTITY ON D.. not sure why we let UPSHAW GO.. strongest and meaning Mother Tucker on our team... we need this guy... BRING BACK POWER , BIG HITTERS.. ...

I wanted Ozzie to resign Upshaw in the first place when he was a free agent but instead they want a draft pick SMH. The worst part was that he was not expensive to resign. We could've sign him a 2 or 3 year deal. l kept saying that we should've kept Upshaw because he was he was a very underrated player that is good against the run and ok at passrushing. Upshaw is physical.

6 sacks in 5 years = worse than okay at pass rushing. There are times when sacks dont tell the whole story, but that is not the case with Upshaw. Each year he was with us he got slower. There were two years in a row where he failed the conditioning test. And in all of three years after his rookie season he came in heavy. He will be available though. He signed a 1 year show me deal with Atlanta. And he didn't show much. He only played 30 percent of the defensive snaps and would have played a lot less if their starting DT Shelby didn't tear his Achilles in week 6. For the 6 games that Shelby played, Upshaw was a healthy scratch for three of them.