billiejean

The problem with counting on draft spot is the Ravens have not drafted playmakers in the first 2 rounds in a long time. Offensive lineman are safe bets in the first round. Finding the elite pass rushers, WR, CB, and safties are what improves your team. It's also what OZ has not done well as of late. Offensive lineman are far from safe bets .. Eric Fisher, Luke Jokel, Cam Ervin, Eric Flower, Justin Pugh, Greg Robinson. Luke, Eric, and Greg where all taken within the first two picks, and before this year there wasn't a left tackle who played well his rookie year since 2012. Matt Khalil made the pro bowl that year and he hasn't been able to match that performance since then. That said, this years class of tackles all have had pretty good seasons. I think some of the busts can be attributed to reaching, but there are usually a few guards that get taken in the first and usually the prognosticators have labeled them as safe bets. Both Chance Warmack and Johnathan Cooper come to mind in that respect. And they didn't live up to the hype. It would be interesting though to look at the last ten years to see if there is a position that is the safest bet.

Im with you there. The only outcome to this game that I would be upset with is if a key player on our team gets injured. You have got to be kidding me. As I am writing this Eric Weddle is limping off the field. Hopefully it isn't serious.

Webb has been playing well this year, and I am not sure how much we would save by cutting him, but whatever that number is will be the deciding factor on whether we keep him or cut him. Brooks was one of the final cuts to get down to the 53 man roster. He was claimed by the Eagles. The first time he played a defensive snap for them was last week on the very last play of the game. He ended up intercepting Eli's hail mary attempt, to seal the victory. He was definitely one of the most surprising cuts during the off season. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zw-BZsQbA2w

There is always a choice as to how they will retire. It's not like baseball folks. I am not sure what that even means? What is the baseball reference. I am not exactly sure what you are saying so I am going to try to cover all of the bases here. In theory you are right. If all of those guys wanted to retire Ravens they could have quit after they got cut. But they all thought they had more years a head of them. And no one is going to quit just so they can say they have stayed with the same team their entire career. But if what you are saying is that they have a choice to retire with a team that they didn't last play for last, by signing a one day contract, that is true, they do have that choice. But what is confusing to me is that Baseball players are free to do the same thing and they do. I guess I am not sure exactly what you are saying here. But regardless, when you spend 13 years of your life playing for a team, and you are a mature adult, you get over the infighting that happened in the last two years you were there. The guy has a house there, just opened up a clinic and I just don't see him being the type of guy that is going to hold a grudge over the cities head for the rest of his life. The disputes he had were between him, the front office and coaches. Steve isn't going to retire a Raven because of his disputes he had with a hand full of people in NC. On the contrary he is going to retire as a Carolina Panther because of the fans who have absolutely no control of the decisions that the front office makes. In other words it wouldn't make sense to disappoint millions of people because you had a disagreement with 5. And frankly, again this is NOT going to happen, but if he did retire a Raven I wouldn't think highly of that choice. When baseball players go into the HOF they are attached to a team - i.e. Babe Ruth, New York Yankees. Cal Ripken, Baltimore Oriole. Their plaque shows them in their uniform with hat and lists their teams on the plaque. The Football HOF does not, it's just the bust of the players head. Sure, but I was referring to the symbolic act of signing a one day contract for a team that the player feels the most connection to, rather than retiring with a team that he only spent a couple of years with at the end of his career. Similarly to the instances highlighted in the links below. http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/jared-allen-signs-a-one-day-contract-to-retire-as-a-viking/ http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/los-angeles-angels-dodgers-chone-figgins-retire-032016

There is always a choice as to how they will retire. It's not like baseball folks. I am not sure what that even means? What is the baseball reference. I am not exactly sure what you are saying so I am going to try to cover all of the bases here. In theory you are right. If all of those guys wanted to retire Ravens they could have quit after they got cut. But they all thought they had more years a head of them. And no one is going to quit just so they can say they have stayed with the same team their entire career. But if what you are saying is that they have a choice to retire with a team that they didn't last play for last, by signing a one day contract, that is true, they do have that choice. But what is confusing to me is that Baseball players are free to do the same thing and they do. I guess I am not sure exactly what you are saying here. But regardless, when you spend 13 years of your life playing for a team, and you are a mature adult, you get over the infighting that happened in the last two years you were there. The guy has a house there, just opened up a clinic and I just don't see him being the type of guy that is going to hold a grudge over the cities head for the rest of his life. The disputes he had were between him, the front office and coaches. Steve isn't going to retire a Raven because of his disputes he had with a hand full of people in NC. On the contrary he is going to retire as a Carolina Panther because of the fans who have absolutely no control of the decisions that the front office makes. In other words it wouldn't make sense to disappoint millions of people because you had a disagreement with 5. And frankly, again this is not going to happen, but if he did retire a Raven I wouldn't think highly of that choice.

THIS... @billiejean Yea there is still no doubt in my mind that he will retire a Panther. Just as Favre retired a Packer. I am not sure why it is even being questioned... Its the classy move and it is the right move.

Trolling me much? And Heap??? He had that choice. Heap didn't leave Baltimore angry. He was FROM and lived in Arizona. Im not hip with the internet slang, so I am not sure what "trolling" is but if it mean refuting outlandish comments than I am guilty.

Trolling me much? And Heap??? He had that choice. Heap didn't leave Baltimore angry. He was FROM and lived in Arizona. He didn't have a choice, he was cut along with Mason and Kelly Greg. None of them left angry but none of them wanted to leave. There was no choice for any of them.

WITH THAT LOGIC TODD HEAP WOULD RETIRE AS A CARDINAL

Elvis is 8.3 against the cap next year tho..? Zuttah being cut would only clear 2.4 mill. So if he is let go we better not get the replacement option at C wrong. The Oline would suffer a major set back Yea, I am certainly not opposed to keeping Zuttah. I am not the expert on this, but I think there are other variables that need to be taken into consideration in order to determine the actual amount of money that we would save if we cut Elvis. But, as I said I am not the authority in these types of matters.

Not sure why we would cut Elvis. Yes he is aging and yes this was the worst year of his career, but the guys still has it physically and when healthy he is one of the best pass rushing threats in the NFL. I would be shocked if we cut a proven pass rusher to go out and land one that is not proven. If there is a veteran to be cut ... I am guessing it will be 1. Webb (big contract / little production) 2. McClellan (showed he is not much more then a ST player) 3. Wagner... (with the addition of Alex Lewis.. we may opt not to give him a big contract) 4. One of the TEs (with Maxx, Gilmore, Boyle, and Waller all jockeying for position behind Watson and Pita... I cannot see us bringing them all back next year) 5. Zuttah... with Jensen, and Urschel capable of playing C and Ducasse showing that he can start at G... Zuttah may not be back after an up and down year this year. 6. Talifero, & Buck Allen just don't have much of a place for them with West Dixon and (a possible draft pick) on board. 7. Kamar Aiken... if the Ravens had any confidence in him.. his output and usage would not have been allowed to drop anywhere near the place it did this season 8. J Powers.... was not what we had hoped and with the possible addition of a CB in the offseason... it may leave Powers expendable. 9. Elam... pretty sure his time on BMORE is over 10. I hope not but BWilliams may be gone. I really hope that we don't let him go but I think he will command a big pay day and the addition of Pierce, Timmy, Carl Davis, WHenry and more may leave us in a position where we can let him go if the payday is too big! Even when healthy I don't think Elvis is anywhere close to being one of the best in the league. He is a liability in run defense and he played in all but one game last year and only had 6 sacks. And yea, he didn't have Suggs on the other side, but if you are close to being the best in the league that shouldn't matter. That said, I dont think he will be cut next year. I also don't think anything could make me more nervous next year than to rely on Urshcel or Jensen to play center. They have consistently shown that they are back ups, quality back ups, but surely not starting material. Jensen actually had a decent few games this year but its inconsistent. On the other hand Urshel is consistent, he consistently get blown off the point of attack and driven into the back field. I am not saying Zuttah is the answer. Although the last ten games Zuttah was pretty solid (minus the penalties), but I think we should bring in some legitimate competition at that spot, whether it is through the draft or through free agency. billiejean... I hear you on the decline of Elvis but I do believe that he is still a proven threat. I really don't see us letting go of a proven threat when we are looking for pass rushers. Im with you on Urschel... I don't believe that he is probably a starter but I do think he is a quality back up and I do think that Jensen could be the starter there... yes he needs reps to improve and grow but that is true of all young players. A middle round draft pick at C who would push those two could leave Zuttah expendable. (I wouldn't be mad if Zuttah was back however- if healthy) IDK... If you ask me I would love to have them both back but some young talent at the same position to allow them to be pushed (while we groom the next starters) I am with you on the fact that Elvis will stay. I would love nothing more than to have Jensen or Urschel start for us but, I would feel more comfortable if they weren't our only options. I still wonder how in the world that we thought Gino G would be a quality starter in 2013 (although it seems the coaches knew because they brought in AQ) and if we counted on the young guys that we have now, I would be worried about being in a similar situation next year. But I am with you on drafting some interior O Lineman in the draft. I guess the other option would be to pick up a veteran that the FO thinks would perform at a higher level than Zuttah or just keep Zuttah. I really don't know what the FA centers look like this year so I am not sure how realistic of an option that, that is. I also don't know how much money letting Zuttah walk would save and I think that info would certainly factor into the equation as well.

I have been involved in "organized football" for much longer than 5 years. One thing I can tell you there was a drastic improvement in Elam since Weddle has been here. As far as the salaries go... Ben Watson was injured in the final game of preseason that was unavoidable... He'll be back next year. Hester was a bust; yes, but that's the only one that I can say they may regret. To now have West and Dixon, keeping Forsett for part of the year was NOT a bad idea at all considering they knew that it would be a while before we got Dixon back. Injuries to Watson and Dixon were unavoidable. Bisciotti is a successful businessman, and I'm sure with being in the business for all these years, he understands all of that. Come on man. Over 5 years, as a player or coach? Or were you the one responsible for providing the kids with orange slices at half time? Elam barely got on the field this year and when he did he looked awful. The guy is terrible in coverage and can't seem to make tackles consistently. Do you remember this? .http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000756193/Tom-Brady-dials-up-79-yard-TD-pass-to-Chris-Hogan I don't think Watson is a lock to be on the team next year. I don't think we would have even considered signing him when we did if we thought Pitta was coming back. We already have a 30 year old TE on the team, and he is five years younger than Watson. Pitta is superior to Watson in every aspect of the game and with Waller, Gilmore, and M Williams coming back to go along with Dennis, Watson is just a spare. If you knew as much about football as you claim, you would know that in Cover 3, Elam is responsible for the Smash/Dig route the outside WR is running (or for the RB in the flat) while the Deep Safety and CB are responsible for the Seam WR (Hogan). Just because a DB lines up over a guy does not mean that's "his man". Elam played that exactly like he should have - which is why Harbs & Weddle said so - but you must know better than all of them. Watson will be back until Gilmore proves he can stay healthy. Waller has bricks for hands so you can't rely on him. Basically, out of that group other than Watson, Pitta is the only true pass-catcher. Maxx is the wild card - if he comes back and lives up to his talent, then the Ravens may let Watson walk for the salary cap space. What in the world are you going on about. I never said anything about knowing so much about football. The comments in the beginning are in response to some one who claimed to have been "involved with organized football" (whatever that means) for more than 5 years. The link that I grabbed was in response to this link that she posted 'http://www.baltimorebeatdown.com/2015/6/17/8800799/safety-matt-elam-looking-good So yea it wasn't the best footage that I could have picked, but I am not going to scour the internet for videos of Matt Elam sucking. I took the first one in the google search and didn't think much of it. The other member stated that Elam has been doing well since Weddle got here. There are multiple issues that are problematic with that statement. And I stand by the claim that Elam is not a good safety. But if you choose to think Elams body of work says he is in fact a good safety, than you are certainly entitled to that opinion. Sure, Waller isn't a natural hands catcher, but I wouldn't say he has brick hands. He dropped two passes this season. I can't find any video of it but I am pretty sure that drop in Pittsburg had more to do with the safety hitting the ball than Wallers bad hands. But either way, I think it would be a mistake to cut one our young TE in order to make way for Watson. Although I am resigned to the fact that, that will more than likely happen. I don't think he has any unique qualities that separate him from the rest of the group.

Not sure why we would cut Elvis. Yes he is aging and yes this was the worst year of his career, but the guys still has it physically and when healthy he is one of the best pass rushing threats in the NFL. I would be shocked if we cut a proven pass rusher to go out and land one that is not proven. If there is a veteran to be cut ... I am guessing it will be 1. Webb (big contract / little production) 2. McClellan (showed he is not much more then a ST player) 3. Wagner... (with the addition of Alex Lewis.. we may opt not to give him a big contract) 4. One of the TEs (with Maxx, Gilmore, Boyle, and Waller all jockeying for position behind Watson and Pita... I cannot see us bringing them all back next year) 5. Zuttah... with Jensen, and Urschel capable of playing C and Ducasse showing that he can start at G... Zuttah may not be back after an up and down year this year. 6. Talifero, & Buck Allen just don't have much of a place for them with West Dixon and (a possible draft pick) on board. 7. Kamar Aiken... if the Ravens had any confidence in him.. his output and usage would not have been allowed to drop anywhere near the place it did this season 8. J Powers.... was not what we had hoped and with the possible addition of a CB in the offseason... it may leave Powers expendable. 9. Elam... pretty sure his time on BMORE is over 10. I hope not but BWilliams may be gone. I really hope that we don't let him go but I think he will command a big pay day and the addition of Pierce, Timmy, Carl Davis, WHenry and more may leave us in a position where we can let him go if the payday is too big! Even when healthy I don't think Elvis is anywhere close to being one of the best in the league. He is a liability in run defense and he played in all but one game last year and only had 6 sacks. And yea, he didn't have Suggs on the other side, but if you are close to being the best in the league that shouldn't matter. That said, I dont think he will be cut next year. I also don't think anything could make me more nervous next year than to rely on Urshcel or Jensen to play center. They have consistently shown that they are back ups, quality back ups, but surely not starting material. Jensen actually had a decent few games this year but its inconsistent. On the other hand Urshel is consistent, he consistently get blown off the point of attack and driven into the back field. I am not saying Zuttah is the answer. Although the last ten games Zuttah was pretty solid (minus the penalties), but I think we should bring in some legitimate competition at that spot, whether it is through the draft or through free agency.

I am not sure if there is an O line coach who is more proven than Juan, and really the idea that he is doing a bad job is one of those myths that only gets spread on this site. What happens is that one guy says makes the same statement every other day, and people start to think that it is actually multiple people saying it. Which is a logical assessment because it really doesn't make sense for someone to say the same thing over and over and over, but it happens here a lot. The perception that multiple people are saying this, validates that opinion. So now other people start saying it. And it goes on, and goes on, until everyone has convinced themselves that Juan sucks. But you would be hard pressed to find anyone who knows football, and doesn't look at this site, that would agree with you. We had a banged up line this year, but in the last 6 games 4 offensive lineman graded out as the top five of our offensive players during 3 of those games. This includes last game. Three offensive lineman graded in the top 5 for two of those games. And the game that is left there were 2 offensive lineman graded in the top 5. The bizarre thing is that in two of the games where 4 o lineman were in the top 5 we refused to run the ball, which I think leads to people coming to the conclusion that the line is doing poorly. I was just talking about the last 6 games, but in every single game there was at least one O lineman in the top 5. And in fact there was only 2 games where only 1 O lineman made it. For the other 13 games 2 to 4 lineman made it. 39 of the 75 top 5 players in the last 15 games were O lineman. And it wasn't always veterans. Alex Lewis made it multiple times, Stanley did as well, and even Ryan Jensen made it for one game. And John Urchel even got in there against the Giants. A guy who has been consistently horrible when he gets on the field made the top 5. Unfortunately it seems that, that game was an outlier, but you have to give some credit to the coach for all of the success that these young guys have experienced. Not only that but there was so much turnover on the offensive line and yea there were some communication issues in the some of those games, but there really weren't many which is a testament to the coaching staff. That said if we do get a new O coordinator, which I am 100 percent on board for, the decision about his offensive assistants should be entirely up to him. And if that means that Juan gets let go he will not have a hard time finding another job.

First off, the FO gets rid of players. Perhaps Harbaugh will have his say, but I'm not sure who it is that we got rid of solely because they bumped heads with Harbaugh, who would have otherwise been a great service to the team. Please don't say Boldin, because there was no indication that he and Harbaugh didn't get along. That IMO was purely an Ozzie move. Who else are you thinking of? The enforcer of the secondary AKA the patriot killer. Does Bernard Pollard ring a bell? Does James Ihedigbo ring a bell to name a few? Youre reaching there. The problem with those two is that they were terrible in coverage and in a passing league both safeties have to be able to cover. If they stayed you would probably reprimanding Ozzy for bringing back two safeties who consistently get beat.

Terrible outlook for this team who have busted their buns for the fans. Stop watching if this is all you can muster for them on the final game. Go Ravens. its not like he said bengals 40 ravens 3. I mean its a legitimate prediction.

There was another play that I thought was a good play call that was executed really well and really showed off Ron Stans agility. It was 3 and 3, and it was either at the end of the first or beginning of the second. It was a run right up the gut between Zuttah and Ducasse. Stanley pulled around the center and made a great block to allow Dixon to get the first. Another play which I was pleasantly surprised about was when AB got an offensive pass interference call on a bomb that he caught on the Ravens sideline. Tavon was stride for stride with him and AB gave him a little push so he could catch the ball. The call was definetly justified but it just seems like we dont get a lot of those types of calls.

http://www.baltimorebeatdown.com/2015/6/17/8800799/safety-matt-elam-looking-good Again, Mom, we went over this before, the Baltimore Beatdown is a glorified blog. Anyone can write an article for the website. But I will admit that Elam played fairly well in the Bengals game where he had a season high 27 snaps on defense. Before that he was activated in two games and played 3 defensive snaps in each. The next two games after Cincinnati he played 3 and 7 snaps respectively. And for the last two games he hasn't been put on defense at all. I don't think those numbers point to a "drastic improvement". And when you said "Fact is that just about everyone has been happy with his progress since Weddle got here" I would have a hard time believing that anyone think this. I don't think you could find anyone on this site to cosign that argument but if you can let me know. That said, I just found out what the letters smh stand for so it is entirely possible that I am out of touch. http://www.csnmidatlantic.com/baltimore-ravens/instant-observations-ravens-30-23-loss "The Ravens had pulled to within 23-20 and had momentum in the fourth quarter. But after Powers left the game, Matt Elam entered the game to play safety. The Patriots immediately took advantage. Chris Hogan ran right past Elam on a post pattern, and Tom Brady hit Hogan in stride for a 79-yard touchdown. It was a tough spot of Elam to be in. But to give up a touchdown that quickly, that easily, was unacceptable. To say Elam has been a bust as a former first-round pick (2012) would be an understatement."

I have been involved in "organized football" for much longer than 5 years. One thing I can tell you there was a drastic improvement in Elam since Weddle has been here. As far as the salaries go... Ben Watson was injured in the final game of preseason that was unavoidable... He'll be back next year. Hester was a bust; yes, but that's the only one that I can say they may regret. To now have West and Dixon, keeping Forsett for part of the year was NOT a bad idea at all considering they knew that it would be a while before we got Dixon back. Injuries to Watson and Dixon were unavoidable. Bisciotti is a successful businessman, and I'm sure with being in the business for all these years, he understands all of that. Come on man. Over 5 years, as a player or coach? Or were you the one responsible for providing the kids with orange slices at half time? Elam barely got on the field this year and when he did he looked awful. The guy is terrible in coverage and can't seem to make tackles consistently. Do you remember this? .http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000756193/Tom-Brady-dials-up-79-yard-TD-pass-to-Chris-Hogan I don't think Watson is a lock to be on the team next year. I don't think we would have even considered signing him when we did if we thought Pitta was coming back. We already have a 30 year old TE on the team, and he is five years younger than Watson. Pitta is superior to Watson in every aspect of the game and with Waller, Gilmore, and M Williams coming back to go along with Dennis, Watson is just a spare.

I am not make excuses for Flacco I am just pointing out that Rothlisburger made the exact same mistake when CJ intercepted him.

If the Ravens would be able to save a significant amount of money by cutting Watson I don't think he is a lock to be on the team next year.

Hey guy if you can start cheering for the Pats and the Steelers at this point, more power to ya. I wish I could severe the connection that I have with the Ravens on a whim so my favorite team (at the moment) will always be in the hunt. Maybe whoever wins the Superbowl this year can be the team that you root for next year, until they are knocked out and then you can move onto the next Super Bowl champ. Its actually a really great strategy because your team is always going to win. If I could do this it would surely relieve a lot of stress and disappointment during these months.

Is this your first season watching football. I think this offseason might surprise you. This isn't the NBA.

Are there players open? I don't know if there are. Theyre might be, but if you can see them, you must have a wider TV than I have. Are you just supposed to tell Joe don't ever throw dump offs? Are you going to tell him to throw to guys who are covered, and tell him no worries if it gets intercepted. Its the oddest thing to me that you brought that up after this game. But I expected a lot of people to put this one on Flacco some how, not for dump offs, but... well I don't know give it a few hours and we will all learn how Flacco lost us another one. Did you not see the botched field goal and the dropped TD by Waller..... or our defence on our last drive? Maybe you were getting some potaotes, but Joe and his dump offs were the least of our worries. The only times he got sacked where when Juice and Dixon didn't pick up the blitz. Towards the end up the half Davis came free, no one touched him, Joe stepped up rolled right and through it down field for the first. Joe played one of his better games of the year.

I wouldn't be so soon to count Correa and Williams out. And I wouldn't be so soon to put Sean Davis in but I am going with your logic here. Sean Davis, Stephon Tuitt Leveon Bell Marcus Gilbert Senquez Golson Mike Adams Jason Worilds Kraig Urbik High picks "bombed out" Bud Dupree, Dri Archer, Sean Spence, Curtis Brown, Rishard Mendenhall, Limas Sweed, Jarvis Jones....... Again, in no way do I think you can call Bud Dupree a bust, but he has contributed just as much as Carl has, and you labled him a bust. I would also say that If we were doing this at the same time of the year in the 2014 season, Ryan Shazier would also be on the list. You could argue that Worilds made it, but he really didn't do much in his first three years. There are actually a lot of arguments you could make, but I am not necessarily saying that we have done better or worse than the Steelers draft wise. I am just trying to show that it happens to everyone. I would actually assume that if you did this same type of thing with the Patriots they would look a lot worse than us. And I think Cinci would actually look better. Those are just assumptions though. Just food for thought. Ive actually been pretty bummed out about Korrea myself. Especially after all the hype about how great he was playing. I said it then and Ill say it now, you aren't going to be able to judge how a player is doing when there hasn't been full contact. I think that hype has made his minimal contribution an even more bitter pill to swallow. And I think its more difficult to switch positions to the inside than people realize, but I digress. I wasn't really happy with the pick when we made it either, but I hope he comes through. He needs to develop some strength.