B-more Ravor

8 hours ago, allblackraven said:

Not as if this would determine whether he comes back but

 

Jefferson also said this tho:

Tony Jefferson‏@_tonyjefferson

@FilmstudyRavens 21 is best number out there couldn't pass up . In respect to Webb if he's back that's HIS number no questions asked.

One of the factors that hasn't really been mentioned yet about Pitta - and this obviously depends on the terms - is that becuase there's still $4.4M in dead money to deal with, there is "only" $3.3M in Cap savings involved if cut, which technically reduces to $2.76M after the Rule of 51 adjustment. So, if the paycut clears at least that $2.76M ($5.5M down to ~$2.75M), then - at least from a Salary Cap perspective - it's a wash for now. He can always be released later and if after June 1, then the balance of his reduced base salary will be saved.

And, if they had wanted to used a post-June 1 release on him, they wouldn't have seen any of the savings until after June 1, so that wouldn't have provided them anything at this time anyway.

So, essentially from a Cap perspective, this will probably, for the time being, be no different than if he was released.

1 minute ago, rmw10 said:

I'd guess it's the latter at $5M per year.  I'm sure we would have loved to have had him but we weren't paying him that much after the contract to Williams, the young players behind Guy, and the potential to give Timmy a new deal next year.

Definitely. 

OK, gotta ask - who's blonde in the avatar?

6 hours ago, ellicottraven said:

Guy is the one guy I'm shocked we didn't pursue. Bad move that we'll regret.

By all reports we DID pursue him. He either decided he'd rather play in NE or they offered a better deal (or both).

10 hours ago, Purple Punishment said:

 

How's comfort level and friendship with Pitta compromised our teams salary cap for next season. Little dink and dunks to Pitta over the last few games to get his bonuses. Very low production from those completion but he made sure to get Dennis his moneys.

8 hours ago, ellicottraven said:

That is exactly what transpired. It was clearly a collusion between Joe Flacco and Pitta so he earns back all those incentives even if at the cost of games. That is what makes me angry about this signing. Joe is regressing as a QB and Pitta is a catalyst that accelerates that regression.

Only $1M of Pitta's incentives had to do with receptions, which he reached easily well before the ton of catches in the last couple of games.

The other $2M was based on playing time, which Flacco had nothing to do with.  If you want to blame someone for that, blame the injuries to Watson and Gillmore.

5 hours ago, Willbacker said:

 I bolded the one section cuz I remember us not getting a comp for Tyrod where I thought we would cuz of the playing time so imo his low contract was weighed way over his playing time. Oh well.

Yes, that was a situation where the yearly average of that initial contract he signed in Buf was below the top 32 comp picks and his playing time wasn't enough to raise it high enough to get into the top 32.  A few years before, it probably would have, but many more teams are now paying more attention to Comp picks which means the top 32 line is much higher than in the past.  IIRC, this year, there weren't any (or very few) 7th round Comps issued because the top 32 line was so much higher.

Yes, yearly average of deal initially sets the round. Then it can go up or down depending on playtime (or lack thereof) and post season honors.

Most FA signings of at least $1-1.4M yearly average "qualify".  Then canceling occurs amongst those qualifying players (regardless of whether in top 32 or not).  Then the top 32 of the remaining earn comp picks.

As far as your example goes, it would also include Woodhead and perhaps Ducasse (depending on his deal), but yes, the results you reached would be accurate for the example.  Basically, when it comes to Jefferson, a signing cancels the same round or the next closest from a lower round.  That's why if Wagner is a 3rd, they'd get the 3rd.

Contract details are coming out of the NFLPA very slowly right now.

Here's Williams:

Full breakdown of DT Brandon Williams' new 5 yr, $52.5M deal, which includes a $12.5M Signing Bonus & $24.5M fully gtd. 2017 Cap # = $6M

Right now it all depends on whether Wagner is a 3rd or 4th. He's looking to be pretty much right on that line right now.

If he's a 3rd, then by rule, Jefferson (a 4th) cancels the lower Comp (Juszczyk, a 5th).  That would give us the 3rd for Wagner. 

If Wagner is a 4th though, then he and Jefferson cancel each other because they are the same round.

Lost:

Wagner

Juszczyk

Ducasse

Signed:

Jefferson

Woodhead

So, they are +1 for Comp picks now, pending Williams, Aiken, Guy, maybe Levine, maybe Powers.  Still a long way to go before this is fleshed out.

19 minutes ago, allblackraven said:

Projected is just under $9M after RFA/ERFA tenders

That was this afternoon before information on the Huff and Hurst RFA tenders, which I did not expect.

So, now, it's about $6.5M (pending a decision Jensen), but again, that's before more cuts/restructures/paycuts/extensions.

The RFA tenders for Hurst and Huff make me believe they are planning on creating a sizeable amount of Cap space, one way or another, before Thursday.

10 hours ago, redlobster said:

No way Pryor comes here if he is seriously trying to get $10-12 million a year.

Yeah, I'd be highly surprised as well.  I don't doubt they may have checked in, but that asking price seems way higher than I can imagine they'd go.

More likely, IMO, that "report" was a plant by his agent to try and get the Browns at ante up more.  After all, what better way than to threaten interest from a division rival, especially Baltimore.

1 hour ago, allblackraven said:

 

This one surprised me a bit.  Was expect them to re-sign him to a lesser 2-year deal instead of tendering him with a $1.797M RFA tender.  But, with Orr done, and Levine and Aiken very possibly leaving as FAs, that's quite a hit to the ST.  Plus, with Lewis cut, Webb perhaps cut and Levine possibly leaving, Weddle and Huff would be the only Safeties left (IIRC).

It think everyone in the NFL would acknowledge that Torrey got overpaid by SF. Torrey would probably admit that too, but it was clearly money that he could not pass up.

That said, with the market the way it's going to be, I think he's going to still get a pretty nice deal.

I could see a 3 year, $15M deal, with a $5M bonus. They could also structure it with an option, as they did with Wallace. That could get the 2017 Cap number as low as $2.666M, which would create a Cap savings of $3M+ over what Wallace would receive. Plus, you've got a 28 year old WR under contract for 2 more years (w/o an extension, Wallace will be a FA next year).

The other thing Torrey becoming a FA does - especially given his ties here - is to possibly put pressure on Wallace to reach an extension if that is the Ravens preference. Torrey creates another alternative that may be just enough to push Wallace to make a deal.

45 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

I was curious to hear your thoughts on this.  On the surface, the June 1st cut for Pitta looks nice.  I'm more of the opinion that we should just be purging the bad contracts this year and not having to deal with the massive amounts of dead cap again next year.  Use this year to clean it up.

Yes, agreed. If they are going to release a good number of these guys, then there should be more than enough Cap space created that they can take it all this year and not carry over anyone into next year. 

But, IMO, IF anyone goes post June 1, it should be Wright. They'd get $4.5M in savings, with only $1.334M in dead money.  Not really that much of a difference from Pitta, but it creates enough post-June 1 money and lessens the carryover into 2018. 

15 hours ago, usmccharles said:

 

How much cap space do you guys think we will have with all the cuts that are going to be made

11 hours ago, Ravensfan23 said:

yea I think that's about right. Of course things like RFA and ERFA have to be factored in as well of draft picks signing. I think the Ravens are around 14M or so right now.

They are currently projected to have around $15M in Cap space, but after adjustments and tenders, they should be have $5-7M in Cap space (depending on who gets RFA tenders).

Cutting Arrington, Dumervil, Lewis, Pitta, Watson, Wright and Zuttah would create a net Cap savings (savings from release, adjusted by Rule of 51 replacements) of ~$18M.  Adding Webb would make that ~$23M.  Adding Wallace would make that ~$28.5M.  Just depends on who they feel they can do without and/or how much Cap space they want to make.

On ‎2‎/‎24‎/‎2017 at 1:21 AM, Davesta said:

How does the post-June 1st cut of pitta work? We have to wait that long to cut him to spread the dead money out? Or is it something we can do now? 

They can release him prior to June 1 with a post-June 1 release designation (they can do this with 2 players), but - as others have said - they don't get the Cap savings until June 2.  That's OK, though, since they are going to need Cap space for Sept when the Rule of 51 Cap accounting ends (and everyone counts) and to have Cap space to carry into the season for injury replacements. 

Releasing Pitta prior to June 1 saves $3.3M and leaves $4.4M in dead money on the Cap.  Post-June 1, saves $5.5M this year, with $2.2M in dead money on both the 2017 and 2018 Caps.  So, either way, the net savings is $3.3M and the dead money is $4.4M, so it's just a matter of how they want to account for it.

A post-June 1 release designation cannot be done unto after the start of the league year, so it cannot be done now, they have to wait until March 9.

Personally, I'm not convinced they will go post-June 1 with Pitta - if he's going to be cut, of course.  The Cap savings if done before June 1 is $3.3M.  That's substantial enough, IMO to cut him prior and, most importantly, not pushing dead money into 2018.  In the past, the Ravens have shied away from using post-June 1 releases and have preferred to take all of the dead money in the present year. 

They did do Eugene Monroe post-June 1 last year, but that was because there was $6.6M in dead money to deal with and because they had to wait until he could pass a physical before releasing him.  So, that was an exception.

That said, they also have Wright and Zuttah as potential cuts and both could also be post-June 1 release candidates, so they may go with 1 (or 2) of they 3 as post-June 1 releases.  It really all depends on just how much Cap space they want to make this year.

1 hour ago, rmw10 said:

First "rumor" is out.

 

I'm a bit Pitta fan, but I think this is probably the best result.  A ton of catches yes, but most short receptions with no YAC. 

A paycut is a possibility, but the incentives threshold is going to be much higher this year since he played in all 16 games and had 80+ receptions, so finding a middle ground may be more difficult this time around (it was easy last year since he played 0 games in 2015).

I'd also be leery of incentives again, since they will hit the 2018 Cap as a negative adjustment if earned, thereby reducing Cap space (just as the $3M in incentives he earned in 2016 are now going to be a negative adjustment on the 2017 Cap).  I'd prefer they use this year to clean up their Cap and doing incentives that could end up hitting the 2018 Cap isn't in furthering that goal.

16 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

He also said we were closing in on an extension with Orr so I have trouble believing him.  I hope he's right, but his work has been slipping a lot.

No doubt.

FWIW, LaCanfora, on his Bmore podcast, termed the Ravens offer to Wagner as "substantial".  Now, we don't know who labeled it as such, but either way, that would appear to be a good first step in trying to get something done with Wagner.

Jason La Canfora ‏@JasonLaCanfora 46m46 minutes ago

21 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Agreed. We will have less to spend than people think, but more than we typically probably do. All comes down to how many cuts we make.

You look at Watson, Arrington and Lewis as pretty easy, obvious cuts from what I see, and you're looking at close to $7M in cap savings there. Sprinkle in the "expected" cuts like Dumervil and Zuttah, and you're at another $8-9M there. 

I see plenty of cases where we create upwards of close to $20M in cap space just via cuts prior to the start of FA.

Yup.  Just depends on how deeply they want to cut.

At a minimum, cutting Arrington, Lewis, Doom and one of TE (Watson or Pitta) creates ~$11.5M (in addition to the presently projected $7.7M).  If they want to add Wright, Zuttah, Webb would be up to ~$20.5M (+$7.7M).  Adding other TE and/or Wallace creates even more.

Jason La Canfora ‏@JasonLaCanfora _{^{37m37 minutes ago}}

On ‎2‎/‎8‎/‎2017 at 4:03 PM, JO_75 said:

According to spotrac... we would have about $15M in cap space as of now. Also judging by that list, Wagner needs to be a priority because some team with a lot of cap space is going to overpay Williams. 

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cap/2017/

This number is misleading because that is before RFA/ERFA tenders and incentive adjustments ($3M debt for Pitta reaching his incentives alone) that are going to cut into the space pretty substantially.

Right now, before any other moves are made, that $15M is really around $7.7M after the above matters are taken into account.  Certainly not great, but still better than last year at this time when they were projected to be OVER the cap prior to making moves.