BigUgly

I didn't watch because I thought this would be another two-hand touch game. I guess I should've known that, with Ray coaching, there would be some hitting and some fire in the game.

Joe Flacco didn't regress. Joe Flacco set personal and team records for passing yards, 4340 yds exceeding his best previous season by 400 yrds. In 8 seasons he now holds Franchise records for Yards, Compltetions, Touchdowns and Wins.

Not just that the yards, QB ratings and all the stats were all either very close to his "normal" above average NFL standards, Joe Flacco continues to endure a what some would call a revolving door at the OC and QB Coach positions.

Some untimely Wide Receiver moves, injuries and FA situations have caused cohesive Offense execution. Not to mention an Offensive Line that went through a complete overhaul with the exception of Pro- Bowler Marshal Yanda.

Lastly a severe season ending injury that luckily only cost Joe 4 Games and with tremendous off- season re-conditioning he came back, played a full 16 game season with a brace on his leg. He set personal records. His team was not full strength and his Offence fielded at times 5 rookies out of 11.

Pro-football Report, one of the leading national syndicated sports statistical co,reports the following; comparing for the same year of their careers-
in Years - the Quarterbacks who's career was of similar quality and shape-

Year 5- Jim Kelly*, Ben Roethlisberger, Fran Tarkenton*, Joe Namath*, Ken O'Brien, Aaron Brooks, Doug Williams, John Elway*, Bernie Kosar, Jay Cutler

Year 6- Ben Roethlisberger, Fran Tarkenton*, John Elway*, Jim Kelly*, Warren Moon*, Steve Grogan, Eli Manning, Drew Bledsoe, Aaron Brooks, Ken O'Brien

Year 7- John Elway*, Ben Roethlisberger, Jim Kelly*, Drew Bledsoe, Eli Manning, Jim Everett, Ken O'Brien, Tom Brady, Fran Tarkenton*, John Hadl

Year 8- Eli Manning, Mark Brunell, John Hadl, John Elway*, Ken O'Brien, Drew Bledsoe, Jay Cutler, Bob Griese*, Jim Everett, Steve McNair

I would not classify this as regression. A poor Team season yes.

Well, I guess if you consider his abysmal 2013 and injury-shortened 2015 seasons to be his benchmarks, then you're right, he didn't regress.

On 1/27/2017 at 9:22 AM, rmcjacket23 said:

When exactly were there opportunities for guys like Watson, Boyle, Gillmore and even Maxx to catch the football? One guy spent 10 games suspended, one guy never played a regular season snap due to injury, and the other two spent over half the season injured or on IR. 

How exactly can you trust somebody who's not even available to play?

In the end, you're right, we don't have any idea what a new core of TEs could do without Pitta. And I for one am not interested in finding out at the moment either. They could flourish, or they could completely bottom out. And when they bottom out, the hypocritical fans will come out in droves and shred Ozzie for not addressing the position or upgrading it.

Welcome to the wonderful world of being just a fan. You get all the perks of hindsight with zero of the risks.

Of course you realize this means Ozzie will draft O.J. Howard, the Alabama TE, with our first pick just so we can have ALL the tight ends.

After watching the Senior Bowl yesterday, I found the O-Line play to be generally poor, particularly at the tackle positions. The best prospects I saw were on the interior: Pocic (C/G), who was quicker than I expected; Feeney (G), who was the best lineman out there; Toth (C) did a great job with seal blocks and getting to the second level; Orlovsky (C), who didn't give up pressure up the middle and opened some nice holes for Hunt, and Morgan (G) who was solid next to both Pocic and Orlovsky.

Banner is too slow and sloppy, as is Moton. Dawkins looks like an Urschel-type of pick, and may require a year or two as a backup to develop. Davenport, the tall athletic kid from Bucknell is very raw and lacks strength - PS player at best for now.

None of the RBs looked good at Saturdays game. QB Webb did look good. Webb may need a little time to polish him off a bit, but he has a good release and speed on the ball for quick seam passes. Something we don't have now with old "3 and out Flacco".

I thought Hunt looked good. Very good burst, excellent balance, and broke some tackles. He and Pumphrey could be good return men and 3rd down backs. Clement is intriguing. He was the heir apparent to Gordon before he was injured. Could be a bargain pick up in later rounds.

44 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

We also had Torrey Smith on the roster cheaply (along with Pitta) and he was among many cap purges we made that offseason, which is fairly common for a SB champ with a big contract going to a QB.

That's just how it works.

To a point.  You still have to look at the cost of production.  In the case of Boldin, his production was proven and, at that cost point, not easily replaced for the same money.  Had he been on the team in 2013, I believe we would've made the playoffs.  Got too cheap at the wrong position at the wrong time.

I understand letting Torrey go.  He had a narrow skill set, and was barely a #2 but got #1 money from SF.  We thought we had a replacement in Perriman, but he has yet to prove as productive.

Linebacker coach and then DC. Come on Ray. Come back home and lead these men.

I think that's the route for him. He said he wasn't ready to commit to the time required of coaching immediately after he stopped playing, as he wanted to spend time with his kids. Now that they are grown, and he's proven he's not a good everyday TV analyst, he'll have to do something.

When he's in the zone, and commits to something, he's a bit of a warrior-monk (like Ed). He will outwork any coach or player in preparing for a game. The challenge will be effectively translating what he knows (and his instincts) to lesser players.

Ozzie usually does a good job drafting talent along the O-Line; the center position since Matt Birk left is the glaring exception (Gradkowski in the 3rd was a bust, AQ Shipley was too small, and Zuttah gets pushed around too much). The question is, do we want to move away from a zone-blocking style line (generally smaller, quicker, more athletic guys) to more of traditional in-line/trap style line with beasts up front that can win 1-1 battles, but maybe can't get to the second level as easily. I used to love watching our line with Ogden and Zeus break the huddle and dwarf the opposing D-Line - it was like men against boys.

Alex Lewis can move to RT if we draft a Guard and Center, and there are guys who were protected by the Ravens by being placed on IR. Tackles Stephane Namebot and D'Ondre Wesley could slide in at RT, or move inside. On the practice squad, Skura has some intriguing upside, and local product Broxton is a mauler at OG (needs to improve his footwork, though).

Not sure we'll keep Ducasse, who has issues in pass coverage. Hurst, Urschel and Jensen are good options as back-ups and should compete for starting roles. Hurst looked rough as a rookie LT last year, but remember that was his first year back after a major leg injury his senior year. Before that, he was touted as one of the top tackles in the country.

  3 hours ago, The Greek said:

i like wallace but not for $8 mil. 

He's our only wr. Could you really find a better replacement for the 5 mil or so we would save by cutting him?

If you'll recall, we released Boldin the year after the super bowl (while he was on a charity trip to Africa) because we deemed his $6M cap hit too pricey.

The Ravens can't afford to be a penny wise and a pound foolish with WR talent.

Nice atricle in todays Wash. Post on how Tom Bradys salary cap is so low by Brady choice. He would rather take a smaller salary so the TEAM can affort the players it needs to keep on winning. Ask old "3 and out Flacco" if he would do that for the Ravens??????????????????? FAT CHANCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

C'mon, man. You really think Brady would take a pay cut out of the goodness of his heart or for the betterment of the team? This is the Patriots, after all. Perhaps not all of Shady Brady's compensation is counted in the cap:
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/report-patriots-pay-a-brady-owned-company-run-by-suspect-partner/

  51 minutes ago, The Greek said:

wish the front office could find guys like edelman and hogan and wish we had the coaching staff that can utilize players like that if we did have any. i would say camponaro comes close but he has to stay healthy. maybe we have other guys but our coaches maybe are afraid to try things with them. i think chris moore could do damage on a wr screen or quick slant under 8 yards like brady runs with edelman or amendola.

Regarding point 1 - I'm not sure it would make a different. Those guys know their role. They play within the system. When a player goes to NE, he knows he's not going to be "the guy", or a super star. The players that last on that team understand one thing: Win, even if it means I won't be a superstar.

It's attitude, culture.

It's also system. Edelman and Hogan would disappear in our offense. We drafted a guy like that way back when - Brandon Stokely. Shoulda kept him, but he didn't fit the front office's ideal of a productive wideout. Peyton and the Colts proved us wrong. The fact that they took a flier on Camp and Reynolds is encouraging - drafting for potential and intangibles.

  2 hours ago, Black&purple#55 said:

  2 hours ago, BiggMack91 said:

we can't win unless flacco plays better an we need to run the ball more but that being said if the ravens drafted a RB in the first round that might force these "coaches" to run the ball. but I personally think it would be a mistake to draft a RB in the first round But as far as mike wallace goes ask him to take a pay cut or get rid of him he's good but not worth 8 mill. Then the TE situation I say cut both Pitta and watson saves money an we have some good young talent at TE to replace them. The biggest need is at CB and there is plenty of talented DBs in this draft so I would love to see us load up an get 3-5 DB 2-3 CB 1-2 Safeties but unfortunately we might draft just 2 like last year. As far as pass rush goes I think we have some good talent with Judon and smith but if we don't have a secondary to cover for more than 3 seconds how are you supposed to get any kind of pass rush going so that being said solidify the secondary then worry about the pass rush

Agree, Patriots don't have a great pass rush but their secondary makes them look like they got pass rush

That's because all of their guys have been playing together for years. Only two players have been on different team (Eagles) for a short time and they have a secondary General: Devin McCourty. (7 years). Which brings up again two questions. 1). Do Ravens suck that bad a player selection? 2). Or are the coaches doing a bad job?

We've not drafted CBs with high pick in the last decade, save for Jimmy Smith, and despite multiple efforts to find a value pick in later rounds, only Webb and Young come to mind as successes. We have been slightly better with veteran FAs - guys like Graham, Williams, and Stewart have done well enough here to price themselves out of our willingness to pay to retain them.

Perhaps the reason we haven't taken the secondary more seriously is that we had stability with Ed for so long, and we've usually managed to generate a pass rush. Weddle is finally a stabilizing force at the back end, but our pass rush has really fallen off.

What ever you don't search for "Worst super bowl QB winners"

The Dilfernator!

20 hours ago, Saxxin said:

O-line and secondary. That's where they need the most help in the early rounds.

Agree with secondary early, but not O-Line.  We will likely need a  center and RT/OG.  Those guys can be had in the 4th or later, plus there were some interesting candidates who got "injured" this past year.  I'm particularly interested to see how Namebot can develop - he's freakishly athletic and could be a KO 2.0.

Nice sentiment by DeCosta, and the Ravens may make what would otherwise be a reasonable offer, but Williams will be relatively overpaid by someone else.   We should let him walk and hope he earns us a 3rd round comp pick in return (as KO has).  Pierce is a solid replacement, and actually has more burst up the middle to put pressure on the QB.  If for some reason he can't do the job, you know Ozzie & Co. have their eyes on another great NT that none of us have even heard of who will plug right in, just like Gregg, Williams, and (hopefully) Pierce.

We just have to win our division, something the Ravens have trouble with. Little to no shot of avoiding a playoff game in Foxboro, but it is sure easier when you have a BYE or first round home game.

To beat NE, you have to be able to shut down their small but shifty receivers. That means press man coverage and a decent pass rush, with pressure up the middle. Brady hates moving laterally. When we play 10 yards off in a zone and don't put pressure on Brady, we get torched (just like Pittsburgh did).

  12 hours ago, BigUgly said:

  19 hours ago, Swift 1 said:

Maybe we re over critical of the center position/

No, we are not. Joe consistently had pressure in his face, which (like Brady) really disrupts his progressions. On a play where he gets pushed back 3 yards, Zuttah may still grade out high if he is still in front of the defender and that defender doesn't get a sack, but he is still ineffective. Does not pass the eye test. Now that he is a Pro Bowl player, he is the epitome of overrated.

Yea yo are. Pressure op the middle doesn't mean that Zuttah was the one who was at fault for giving up the pressure. Ive been saying this all year. Jeremy had a rough first four games and from there he played well. There is no way that you could have watched Jeremy Zuttah on every single play during the season. People are basing their opinions about Zuttahs play on probably about 1 percent of the plays that he played during the year. He had one terrible game where he backed up on Joe twice. Im not sure which game that was but it was one of the first four. But since that time people have had the unfounded perception that, that type of thing has been happening all year. And it really hasn't. As i said before it is absolutely impossibility for anyone to have watched Zuttah on every single play. And as Ive been saying he has been consistently in the top 5 for offensive performers in the last 12 games. Which is why he had the fifth best grade on on our offense for the entire year. Unless you and a friend have done the following for every single play during the year then you haven't seen the whole picture.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/about/how-we-grade/

As i said before pressure up the middle does not mean that Zuttah gave that pressure up. Our guards were shuffled all season and once the line was solidified towards the end of the season Ducasse was clearly the weak link. Its also not always a OL fault. In the Philadelphia game on two separate occasions Joe was sacked or hurried because, Kenneth Dixon and then Juice, did not pick up the blitz. Its hard to see who is at fault during a game because

1. Your eyes aren't focused on the offensive line the entire time
2. Unless they show a replay it can be hard to see exactly what is happening in the middle of the OL because the view often is obscured by other players.

All that said Zuttah did have a problem this year. A big problem in fact. And that was penalties. Especially in that Dallas game. I think he also had a critical penalty in that Steelers game as well. And those yellow flags have also contributed to the perception that he wasn't playing well. I am not advocating that we keep him next year because he is awfully expensive, but if we let him go, there is not a player that is on our current roster that would do an adequate job of replacing him. We would have to count on either a FA or a draft pick to fill that void. I am also not saying that he deserves to go to the probowl.  I dont necessarily have a way of accurately assessing all of the centers in the league (no way in hell am I paying for that PFF subscription), but I would think that there would be a few that played better than JZ did this year.

The reason Zuttah will be released next year is not his cap hit, it is because he is not very good. If he weren't perceived by the FO as such a weakness, he would be kept at that cap figure.

  13 hours ago, FloridalovesRavens said:

  13 hours ago, leziRav said:

  14 hours ago, dirtybird66 said:

the SKIN'S are said they will have to let go either DESHAUN JACKSON or PIERRE CARCONE,I have heard CARCONE is a true baller that blocks really well downfield and has not lost a step.

Pierre Garçon is the type of possession WR the team is looking for. All he has to do is drive few miles on I95, direction Owings Mills. Skins will give a big contract to Cousin so won't be able to sign him. I rather give a contract to Garçon than $8 Mill to Wallace who is not a good team player. The dude creates problem because he is not targeted much.

I don't blame Wallace for wanting the ball. No proof he is not a good teammate. Where did you hear that?

http://www.sportsgrid.com/real-sports/nfl/mike-wallace-complain-miami-dolphins-beat-cleveland-browns/

"But besides sitting down and chatting with his coaches, Harbaugh needs to get some harmony back in the locker room. Receivers Steve Smith and Mike Wallace are privately pouting because they aren't getting the ball enough."

"On offense, the Ravens are an unhappy bunch. You can see it in the temper tantrum receiver Mike Wallace threw on the sideline Sunday..."


My issue is that he took himself out of the Squealer game for the rest of the 1st half after he scored the long TD to "get his head right" (not on the sideline - he went to the locker room). Not exactly the guy I want on my team. There's a reason he's been let go by 3 teams already....

Wallace and Smith being upset with the offense doesn't bother me in the least. You invest all that time, blood, sweat and pain to reach a point where the postseason is on the line, and you can see the offense failing to come through when it should.

These guys care, and want to win, and have enough veteran experience to know when something is broken and are rightly frustrated when the coaches and/or Joe aren't able to turn it around. Same was true of Mason and Boldin. Give me a receiver who wants the ball every play any day, so long as he isn't an open disruption to the team. If Wallace perceived complacency from Marty and Joe, I completely understand him getting ticked off on the sideline. That's not a distraction. That's having some fire in the belly.

Maybe we re over critical of the center position/

No, we are not. Joe consistently had pressure in his face, which (like Brady) really disrupts his progressions. On a play where he gets pushed back 3 yards, Zuttah may still grade out high if he is still in front of the defender and that defender doesn't get a sack, but he is still ineffective. Does not pass the eye test. Now that he is a Pro Bowl player, he is the epitome of overrated.

You Gotta Be <>Me

If Dalvin Cook falls to the Ravens at 16, then maybe snag him. Definitely not worth trading up for as this draft is deep at RB (and CB). I think I'd like to see a WR like Williams or Davis, but the safe play will likely be OLB or CB.

Of course, that means that Tim Williams, Marlon Humphrey, or a reach for Reuben Foster will be our #16 because, you know, 'Bama.

  9 hours ago, Bline1027 said:

  12 hours ago, hen826957 said:

I wish they can both lose but if l had to choose l'll pick the Steelers because l respect them as a rivalry. I don't respect the Patriots at all and l can't stand Brady. Hopefully the Falcons will win the Super Bowl. The Falcons offense made me so jealous today. I wish our offense was like that. The Ravens should take notes.

Ravens should give up a high pick for the Falcons Offensive Coordinator. Someone who knows how to run and pass.

Not hard to be the OC for the Falcons..

1. Throw the ball to Julio
2. See #1
3. When they triple team Julio, hand off to Freeman

But look at what he did as the OC last year - horrible, despite having the same players.....

They had Julio the last several years and weren't this effective. If you notice, the Falcons' offense is almost identical to that of Kubiak - commit to the run, complete and well-coached zone blocking scheme, occasional QB naked bootlegs, and play action passing setting up wide open WRs on medium and deep routes. The result: Matt Ryan's best year by far as a pro. Add in a younger, faster, more aggressive defense and you have a championship-caliber team.

This offense gave the Pats troubles in the 2014 Divisional Round when Flacco was running it. Will be interesting to see how the Falcons fare.

After Kubiak left Baltimore, we had the option of signing Kyle Shanahan, the current Falcons OC, to replace Kubs. Instead, we went for Mark Trestman, Super Genius. Of course, we don't have to worry about Flacco losing yet another OC after a Super Bowl run, so there's that.

The Ravens don't always make the playoffs, but when they do, they are always competitive.

There have been some seriously lopsided games. The Stillers vaunted offense sputtered, and their Dean Pees-esque zone D got shredded. When are coordinators going to learn that playing 10yds off of those shifty wideouts ain't gonna work against New England.

Ravens would've had a far better showing.

This is a real shame.  Orr was better at ILB than Mosley, and could've become truly special - another undrafted gem like Bart Scott.  That said, I hope Oz resists the temptation to grab Reuben Foster from 'Bama at 16.  Either Correa can play or we put in Onwuasor (who was one of the hardest hitters in camp) or McLellan.  We have more pressing needs elsewhere on the D (CB, Edge, FS).  

6 minutes ago, Rav'n Maniac said:

I wouldn't expect Reed to want to coach here, at least while Harbs is the HC. I feel there has always been something going on between the two that has affected that relationship.

I wouldn't expect the Ravens to want Reed to coach here just yet, especially as a lead positional coach.  Its tough to have him coach on the team when there are still players on the squad who played with him, and under a head coach who coached him.  Add in the fact that Ed has very little actual coaching experience, and it makes sense for both sides to let him get seasoned elsewhere.  If, in a few years, he proves to be a coach anywhere near as talented as he was as a player, then by all means bring him aboard!