BigUgly

This will be a good signing, if we don't kill our cap doing it.

Webb was making good CB money at FS, and not playing all that well. Jefferson ought to make good FS money (same or less than Webb), and play up to his compensation.

We've spent alot on S the last 2 years..............where are we getting CBs?!?!?!?!

Will likely take a flier on a mid-grade, proven vet and then pick up a couple more in the draft. This did fill a major gap, though.

Woodhead isn't quite the game breaker Harbs was looking for, is he?  Doesn't have better speed or hands than Dixon, and lacks the power of both West and Dixon.  I don't think he's much of a factor in pass protection on 3rd downs, either (a limitation of both West and Dixon as well).  I'm scratching my head over this one.

36 minutes ago, bioLarzen said:

Well. This sighning would be a jaw dropper - and would leave me a complete idiot for saying there's no way he would choose us over so much more money the Browns can afford to throw at him... And I would be happy to be so wrong and ridiculous

But hey, let's wait half a day, this is the prime season for false info in the NFL...

Browns are still sitting on $100M+ of cap money and have made no moves whatsoever.  Thank God their ineptitude continues.

This means Webby will be forced to take a pay cut and become a backup, or he is gone.  

I also hope we are able to re-sign Doom (assuming he is healthy again), or find another complementary pass rusher.  Also believe we should have cap space left to grab Mangold.

1 hour ago, RailBird said:

Anyone else worried by the idea of Hurst starting at RT next season?

I'm OK with the best of Hurst, Lewis, Wesley and Nembot plus a fair priced vet competing for the LG and RT spots.  Most of those guys currently on our roster were Left Tackles in college.

The boards closing on April 1st, eh.  There's an old band of folks from espy days over on thesidelinereport.com, for those interested.  Not as classy as this forum, however.

He was a nice player, a real athlete that was a better receiver than blocker. I thought he was over-drafted in 2013 relative to his position and pedigree, but that said he was probably underutilized as an offensive weapon.

At this rate, the only "splash" signing the FO will be able to make in free agency would be a Mangold.  I sure hope they have an extension for Wallace in the works.

Should really cut Zuttah, Arrington, Watson, and cut the salary or outright cut Pitta and Webb.  Might be enough to nab Marshall (assuming he even wants to come here) and maybe another CB.

Thought the Ravens would've made more salary cap purges by now (Wright, Lewis, Zuttah, etc.). I hope they aren't going to stand pat with this team - less Juice, Wagner and Williams of course.

There are at least 26 players (no QB's) in the draft that i would be happy with in round one. So we can trade back 10 positions, still get a top talent, plus pick up another second round pick

I think you may be on to something. There are players with first round grades in the top 50; an unusually solid draft particularly on defense. If the Ravens can get 3 picks in the first 50, that might be worth considering.
I just don't think we can afford the time to draft a "developmental" guy too high at edge, OL, or CB/FS. We just don't have the depth there.

Not really interested in Williams or Harris at #16. Williams is a one-dimensional part-time player and has some character flags. Harris would be a better get in the second, if available. Of course, Williams does have the key attribute - a 'Bama pedigree.

Nab Marshall and Mangold, extend Wallace to defer the cap hit, and try and re-sign Wagner. The Offense would be set. Draft edge, CB, and FS in the first 3 rounds, and then fill in on the lines of scrimmage as able.

If we want to win we'll sign Marshall. Probably already dropped the ball by not trading for him though.

Ravens were right to wait. Why give up draft picks for someone you know will be released? Besides, I'm sure SSSr and others have reached out to him to recruit him to the Ravens, and the Ravens should be able to give him $7M per for 2-3 years and retain Wallace.

The only issue is, does Marshall perceive the Ravens as a legit playoff contender? He can't hold any new team in high regard that lost to his old team.

52 minutes ago, sizzlingdoom said:

Seriously. My sister could replace Aiken at wr too. Not to mention she could play ST twice as good as he did. Anybody could/will.

Aiken disappeared because Joe had other, more viable targets.  His breakout 2015 year came when Joe's BFF Pitta was out with an injury, as was Perriman.  SSSr was out for part of the year then as well, and there was no Wallace.  Why look Aiken's way when you are sure Pitta will get open 2 yards in front of the sticks?

Aiken is a tall possession receiver with good hands.  He would be a nice #3, but the #2 and #3 role is now effectively taken by Pitta.

Man, we have got to let joe go, resign him for 1/2, or less , than what he makes, we need to keep what good players we have, sad state of affairs signing him to that sb contract, should have waited a few years, would have gotten him real cheap, maybe another cousins, ha ha ha

Yeah, I'm sure the Skins were thinking about Joe and his contract when they slapped the tag on Cousins for the second straight year. He certainly isn't the best QB in the league, and not worth the $25M the tag will give him this year, but that's the price the Skins will pay to avoid a long term commitment.

This will blow up in their face, as Cousins will be traded this year or walk the next, and leave the Skins in the exact same boat they have been in for most of the last few decades - uncertainty at QB.

The point is, you have to pay a QB what the market will bear, and stability (in terms of performance and health) carries a bit of a premium.

  2 hours ago, usmccharles said:

I think the numbers we have him signed at is what makes him worth keeping.  They are talking about Kenny Stills getting around 12mill a year...I know hes younger but he had worse numbers.  I think with the inflation of the cap and how much WRs are going to be getting paid, i think its best to keep him.  If we cut him, i think he would get more than what we have him for. 

Yeah, I think it's a given he stays for this year, but I don't think there's much chance they choose to extend. 

Why not? He was very productive, runs the best slant route in the league (and Joe has finally figured out how to target that route), and he has excellent speed. The have a cap crunch in 2017 that eases dramatically in 2018. Why not extend him a year or so, reduce the cap hit this year, and retain his productivity and veteran leadership for a bit longer. It's not like the guy is 37.

Having Jamal Charles as a 3rd down back should enable him to stay healthier and might be a nice complementary back to our current roster. No reason to pay more than $2M/per for him. It also wouldn't make sense to break the bank for Hightower or Pryor - the former is a bit overrated, and the latter put up good numbers as the ONLY viable WR on his team (like Aiken in 2015).

I would like to see the FO go after Marshall or Garcon, quality secondary depth (FS or CB) and OL help (C, G, RT). If that means performing some minor cap surgery on the existing 8-8 quality roster, so be it.

  10 hours ago, TheConquerorWorm said:

A $100,000 scholarship is more than a single cent.

Athletes are the only ones who get scholarships?

No, but athlete's scholarships are revokable for reasons other than academic performance or behavior, unlike academic scholarships. If you get injured playing ball, they can strip your scholarship and then where are you as a student athlete?

Levine is a poor man's (older man's) Jabrill Peppers...a hybrid athlete who defies a single position designation. In this case, I think both he and Peppers are nice complementary guys, presuming you already have solid depth as safety and CB, which we do not. Of course, they should also be key special teams guys, which Levine certainly is.

The Ravens should be in contention for a playoff spot but likely not a championship (at least on paper).  That said, one never know what a team that gets hot at the right time can do, as we've seen before.

Losing Wagner, Williams, and Juice won't significantly hurt our chances as we have proven we can easily replace talent there.  If the cap savings enables us to retain Wallace, perhaps sign another decent WR (Marshall, Garcon, etc.), some quality secondary help and another OL before the draft, then that would actually make the team better, IMO.

My only hope is that FO resists the urge to overdraft a "high motor, high character" guy when there is better football talent available.  

19 hours ago, Space11jams said:

I don't see them cutting or renegotiating his contract for next season. He put up a 1000 yard season his first year with the Ravens. I say that's a really good FA pickup if you ask me. If anything, I see Arrington gone, Lewis gone, Wright gone, Doom and Webby will both take paycuts. Watson would still be on the team. Especially since we constantly have banged up guys on the roster. One of the TE's might be trade bait since we have a lot of potential at the position but Pitta, Watson and Crockett might be the lineup week one if injuries doesn't riddle any of those guys. You still have Boyle whose is really productive, Waller who is solid and Madd Maxx whose still trying to find his way. Use that cap to sign Williams and Juice. I don't think we'll get Wagner back.

I see them likely extending Wallace's contract, and adding a year or two with more bonus money.  We'll have the cap room to absorb any dead money in 2018 and '19 should Wallace fail to work out.

  16 hours ago, Adreme said:

The thing is Mangold hasn't been very good the past 2 years and has graded worse than Zuttah so why pay for an older player who is likely a downgrade.

He is not a downgrade. Injury and quarterback play has a role in the offensive line. He was injured last year, he had terrible quarterback play, but still hasn't given up a sack in 33 games. He was named to the pro bowl the two years before last year. Definitely an upgrade.

Yup, and he doesn't get shoved around in the middle like Zuttah does. Since his injury was just an ankle, I would expect him to be fully healthy this season and to have at least 2 more years in the tank.

6 minutes ago, law215 said:

I just feel like there needs to new voices in coaching and drafting.

If rumors of Harbs' influence in the draft room are to be believed, we may want the old voices back in the draft.

I'm happy there will be a new voice along the O-Line, and though Marty is relatively new as our OC, I'm not holding out much hope for the offense regardless of the talent they may be able to acquire.

18 hours ago, billiejean said:

Yea Ryan has had so much success with all of the NFL teams he has been with.

I think that had more to do with his attitude than his arm.  By all accounts, he finally put in the work off the field to become a pro while with the Ravens.  If he doesn't sign elsewhere, I wouldn't mind him back here.

1 hour ago, bigcatfrank1 said:

stating the words "overpay for their services" without stating what you think should be paid is quite a bit of a cop out.
I will be specific about my opinion and comment in response, maybe you could too.
KO was not affordable, the Ravens didn't have the cap money to keep him at the "market value" of his position. The Team's cap was tipped out at the 6.7 mil that they paid Wallace and that was after KO had left.
RT Wagner, his market value is estimated at 6.7 million, The Ravens may have offered close to that. He may not get it, or he may get more from a team in dire need. I think that the Ravens could afford 6 million and that is a fair price for a solid 4 year RT.

NT- Williams his estimated NFL value could be as high as 14 Million
the price to franchise a NT in 2017 is 14.3 million. So that is about maximum value for the position. I believe that Ravens could afford 11 Million per year for Williams and that would be a fair value for him.

FB- Juice as the article states the highest paid NFL FB is at 2.5 Million Juice is worth close to that in my opinion. SInce there is not a franchise tag for Full Backs, just RB ( over 10 mil) the guage is set by the competition. Juice is perfect for the Ravens and they could be more creative with him in my opinion.

So if it was regardless of the cap, the Ravens could keep all 3 of them. But the Cap cannot be disregarded, I do not think the Ravens are willing to put 20 million down for all 3 players.
I choose Williams and Juice, let Wagner see if he can get more. If not maybe they capture him for under 6 million.

OK, here's some perspectives with back-of-the-envelope salary cap math (not using my kids' new common core curriculum, which would result in every answer being "42").

Paying LT money for an OG is silly...the Ravens were wise to let KO walk.  As for Wagner, Juice and Williams, the Ravens could "afford" to pay to keep all three, but the opportunity cost would be an inability to sign players for depth at other positions (ILB, OG, C, WR, DB/FS).  The Ravens currently have about $15M in cap space.  Assuming they make a reasonable set of cuts (Watson/Pitta, Doom, Wright, Lewis, maybe Webb, Zuttah, etc.) that would push the number up to about $25M net of dead money.

Ozzie wisely likes to plug holes in the roster in free agency ahead of the draft.  The market price to keep Wager (est. $7M), Williams ($11M - your estimate) and Juice (est. $2.5M) would be over $20M.  That would leave a scant $5M to plug holes at RT/G (depending on where you slot Alex Lewis), center ($1.5M), ILB ($1M), CB ($2M), Edge ($4M) and FS ($1.5M).  Also, don't forget that we will need to sign a backup QB ($2M).  That's about $12M in needs.  

If you believe in Alex Lewis at RT, and Pierce at NG, and that finding quality blocking FB (albeit without Juice's ability to catch the 3-yarder in the flat route) is fairly easy, the Ravens should invest the bulk of their notional $25M cap space in an edge rusher, defensive backfield, ILB and interior O-Line (in that order) in my opinion.  Pay for playmaker positions, and fill-in/draft/develop the rest.  RT, NG, and FB aren't playmaker positions.  Besides, we'll get comp picks to replenish those guys that were drafted in the mid rounds anyway.