Halshayeji

18 minutes ago, sizzlingdoom said:

I don't know the value and what exactly we would get, but I would think we'd be able to at least pick up a late 3rd or 2nd. I also think we need to do that 100%. I think the talent level between players 16-50 in this draft is very marginal. So many awesome first rounders will go in the second this year. I think we should trade back for sure
I think Carl Lawson and Ju Ju Smith are MUST grabs for the Ravens, and at this point it looks like they're both going early second

I agree on the talent from16-50. Those guys are impressive but please excuse my greed. If the stars align, we get a top 10 talent at 16 and a first round talent in the second. Heck move up a few picks in the second if you have to.

3 hours ago, ellicottraven said:

None of the above. Barnett is the only one I would take at 16. The only other LBer I would consider in the first would be Rueben Foster but I doubt he gets to us. I think here's a list of players I wouldn't mind taking in the first.
CBs: Lattimore, Humphrey (Humphrey possible)
Safety: Jamal Adams or Malik Hooker (both doubtful)
RBs: Fournette, Cook or McCafferty ( I think we may have a chance at Cook or McCafferty)
WRs: Any of the top 3 - Williams, Davis or Ross (reluctantly)
OT: Cam Robinson or Ramszcysk.
I believe we'll surprise everybody by taking somebody we haven't thought about in the first that'll shock us first, intrigue us next and make us giddy with joy last.

Great post.

you listed 9 guys that are absolutely top 10 talents and I'd add 3 more guys to the list as home runs if we can land one. 

ILB Foster

CB Lattimore, Humphfries

S Adams, Hooker

RB Lattimore

WR Williams, Davis 

OT Ramszcysk

il also add Garrett, Solomon Thomas, and Allen who are probably no brainers at this point (just to make the list 12 players) that are worth taking regardless of what we have on our roster. Let's call these guys (1A)

Robinson, Ross, Cook, and Barnett are good players to pick at 16 but each one has a little dent on his full package. Let's call these guys (1B) I would start rooting for the guy day one but my greed wants (1A)

the way I look at it is that we need 4 guys outside of 1A to get drafted in the top 15 in order for us to land a 1A guy. Someone like Quincy Wilson CB Fla or Howard TE Alabama. Maybe a QB or two in the top 15 would be nice. Any of the 12 listed (1A) would feel like CJ Mosley all over again and I'd celebrate winning the draft early.

2 hours ago, glen ferguson said:

If we were to trade back say ten spot does anyone know whats the best value we could get for doing so? I think getting an extra 2nd or 3rd would worth it.

Moving back ten spots would probably land us a late second to early third and change. But that would be an extremely risky proposition. There's a pritty steep drop off in talent after pick 20ish. I wouldn't mind moving back a few of the draft is mean to us but no later than 20. Second round is also risky because we're sitting right at the dropoff point. If we move back in the first it should be to move up in the second.

9 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Well we don't really know what the Browns were offering, but my guess is he didn't leave much money behind. We don't even know if the guaranteed money was much different either.

I will almost guarantee that it wasn't a case of the Browns offering like $12M a year and him choosing the Ravens for like $8.5M. We're talking maybe $1M a year difference in most of these cases.

Jefferson himself said he turned down 1.5m per yesr to accept the Ravens offer. 

17 hours ago, Moderator 3 said:

And that's the kind of statement that drives the "Flacco lovers" nuts.  As a matter of fact, the Ravens were in the top 3rd of the league in AVOIDING 3 and outs.  He was NOT failing to move the chains at a high rate.  Granted, there were too many failed attempts at securing the first down later in the drive, but a fair amount of that was lacking a playmaker on offense.  It takes two to move the chains. 

And that's the kind of statement that drives the opposing side crazy. He made so many good points and eloquently stated them. You held on to the one point that he "spoke wrong" and threw out everything he said when in reality you know exactly what he means. 

i literally cringe every time a conversation like this happens. On one side, people who criticize Joe often take it too far to say something like cut him or trade him when it's not even logical. On the other hand, people defending Joe will go so far that theyl throw everyone around joe under the bus to defend him.

Mad respect to Jefferson. "If Webb comes back the number is 100percent his" wow!

On a side note, turns out Carr doesn't factor in the comp formula. Which kind of explains why Ozzie is not willing to sign anyone that does. A third round comp for Wagner would be a nice thank you to Baltimore. 

2 hours ago, Bat-mite said:

I don't understand Pitta's restructure. Guy comes off a major injury where he sat out most of two seasons and collected injured pay, then comes back and has the best year of his career and leads all TEs in receptions, and gets asked to take less money?

I am happy about it in that it frees up cap room so we can get some talent at WR and OL, but I really don't get it.

I'm with you on this one. I appreciate that pitta took a pay cut when he honestly didn't have to agree to that much of a cut.  But also factor in last year he did take a 4 mil cut but recouped 3 mil of that and it counts against the cap this year.

just to keep rhings simple, he'll probably get most of it back if he starts and plays most games but if he gets hurt then the Ravens are off the hook. 

1 hour ago, rmcjacket23 said:

It means they thought his injury would heal with rest and rehab. Three months later they realized it wouldn't.

I'm no doctor but I'm pritty sure him playing those last couple of meaningless games didn't help. It probably screwed up his shoulder more and postponed rehab for at least a month. Great way to protect your franchise QB lol

On a side note, cam newton is having shoulder surgery. It's sad but hillarious when I thought our training staff messed up Perrimans diagnosis. These fools diagnosed it righ early December but it took them 3 months to do the surgery. what the heck! Why would you do that?! 

I'm also fired up but this all means nothing if Pees goes vanilla every fourth quarter. No more excuses Mr Pees. Top 5 overall is the minimum expectation 

1 minute ago, ByTheBay said:

Why are you surprised? No one else wanted him. You are what your value is in any given marketplace and the entire league has placed Aiken's skill at 4th on the depth chart. That's who he is no matter what he tells himself or others. Oh, and the way he publicly complained about the Ravens means he is not a very good guy. He was not a team first player. 

True that. It's never in your favor when you publicly complain. I'm surprised because he specifically complained about touches then goes to a team that most likely won't give him touches. He had other visits didn't he?

4 minutes ago, Tiznut said:

He may not have been cut then but a performance like he had that last yr and he wouldn't be picked up by anyone. 

 

Now we are a few years removed from his bad yr and he's a few yrs removed from playing. No team is going to pick him up because of that and not because they're still holding the dv against him. 

 

My questions to him him would be. If you're adamant you can play why not go north and showcase your pass catching and run after catch ability?  Wouldn't that be the best way to show that you can still play?

 

And to that I commend you. If you really want to play then go north and prove it....

2 minutes ago, Tiznut said:

By saying he's being held hostage you're saying he should be released.  

Kind of. I'm saying that if our FO are really considering adding another RB then just let west go. I don't think anyone is willing to give up a third for him and I would feel horrible if we kept west till may then let him go and he signs for someone on a minimum deal. If their not considering adding a RB in FA and that probably is the case then all the power to them and west. I just really like west as a man and don't wish we hinder his progress in any way.

1 hour ago, Fastynart said:

I don't blame Aiken one bit for leaving. He was underutilized here last year. The guy did a great job for us but you can't afford to keep everyone. Wish him well.

I absolutely agree. It just wasn't meant to be. Aiken is a good guy but not our good guy anymore. I'm just surprised he signed for the Colts when he knows he's 4th on their depth chart.

1 minute ago, rmcjacket23 said:

And why should Rice get a chance because AP did?

Do people think Rice was as good as AP in 2013 or something? You guys don't seriously think they are comparable do you?

Feels like an apples vs oranges comparison.

Ok as you wish. Ray rice was a horrible player and a person. Had he not layed a hand on his wife then the Ravens would have cut him regardless. And no other team in the NFL would have given him a tryout for 3 years so he should have just retired then. Better?

18 hours ago, Tiznut said:

If they truly go after Peterson or Blount then may be. We did this with two RFAs earlier. To demand or suggest that it needs to be done at this point in time is pathetic as it's based of an article speculating that we may go after Peterson/Blount. 

No one is suggesting or demanding it needs to be done lol. I just said its not crazy to consider. Then someone spun words and gave me a lecture. 

3 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

No actually what we're trying to say is that you don't need to sign somebody like him to be a backup.

Like thing about what you're saying. You're saying that he's a backup. That means, ideally, he's basically never going to play. We're not talking about bringing him in as a change of pace back or a guy you give the ball to a couple times a game.

We're talking about the kind of player that, ideally, never sees the field for you.

So why in the World would any team want that player and the PR that comes with that? What does ANY NFL franchise gain by signing Ray Rice? Now, or two years ago?

Its a simple risk/reward analysis. The risk is you get chastised by the media, your sponsors, your fans. The reward is that he never plays for you.

Yeah, sounds like a wonderful choice.

He's out of the league due to a combination of those things. If he was a quality player, he'd have played longer. See Greg Hardy.

You better be able to provide some sort of reward to a team in that case, and its almost impossible to argue he provided that.

No actually the guy was saying if Peterson gets a chance then so should rice. And I agree. Rice should have gotten another chance. I didn't say the Ravens should sign him. Neither did he

2 hours ago, jdynamite said:

I'm not sure what you mean by Carr is UFA so he doesn't count. After all if that were the case then we would get nothing for the guys we've lost like Wagner, Juice etc all of those guys were signed away as unrestricted free agents. If they were restricted free agents then any team that signed them away would forfeit their draft pick to the Ravens based on the tender placed on each player. 

 

From over the cap 

As the NFL explains, compensatory picks are awarded to teams that lose more or better compensatory free agents than they acquire. The number of picks a team can receive equals the net loss of compensatory free agents, up to a maximum of four. Compensatory free agents are determined by a secret formula based on salary, playing time and postseason honors. Not every free agent lost or signed is covered by the formula.

So you need to write down each player the Ravens lost and what the contract was. The compare with new players acquired.  Hope that helps some. 

Helps a lot. I hate that "secret" formula lol

3 hours ago, Tiznut said:

Agreed. Rice was in decline mode and his last full season was statistically bad. Then you add time off on top of that. Yes he may be in good condition and still have muscle but so does Herschel walker and that doesn't mean he'd be productive. 

 

Peterson had 4.5ypc over 1200 yards and had over 2k the yr before that. 

People were already expressing doubt about rice before his suspension 

I get all of that and agree that rice was in decline. And now he's probably off the cliff. The case being made here is wether or not he was worth someone taking a chance on him. The answer to that is yes, as a player he declined but not as much as out of the NFL declined. Heck his backup got 2 more chances on minimum deals but he didn't even get 1 call for 3 years. 

Was Rice in decline, yes and so was the whole team that year. Was rice so bad that he couldnt even be a backup somewhere, no. It just turned out that teams weren't willing to risk a PR nightmare over a player that wasn't getting 2000 yards from scrimmage

rice was cut because of the domestic violence issue not his play. And then he stayed home for 3 years because of the same reason. Not his play. thats all were trying to say

40 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Ray Rice isn't playing because most teams don't think he would be any good.

I wish I could see your straight face when you make such a claim......

20 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

1. The small sample size would be a combination of being unable to evaluate Dixon at all, meaning you can't say that it "hasn't worked out", and the lack of playing time of the other guys.

2. I inferred the latter, because they almost certainly wouldn't cut West if they signed Blount. I'm not even sure why people think they would. It would mean Taliaferro certainly doesn't make the team, which he likely won't anyway, and Allen likely wouldn't either. They're gonna carry 4 backs on the 53 man, and then it becomes a game of whether West or Blount would be active on gamedays once Dixon returns.

3. Us failing on 1st and goal doesn't change by bringing in Blount. Again, its a myth that he's this great short yardage back. If its 1st and goal from the 1, sure, he'll get in, along with any other back on our roster. If its 1st and goal from the 8, he's probably not getting in at all, along with any other back on our roster.

4. The reason why I don't care about TDs unless they're guaranteed is because if he's not scoring, what good is he doing? We've already acknowledged he's not a great back in terms of getting actual yardage, so if he's not scoring, what value is he bringing? He doesn't pass protect well, he doesn't play ST well, so what's he doing here?

5. I answered your question already genius. I answered it very clearly. I will quote it again in case you missed it..."I would take West over Blount for 2017".

1 and 2 I'm talking apple and your seeing orange so we'll keep it at that

3- so it's a myth that he's good at short yardage and it's a myth that he's a good runner. Then how did he get 18 TDs? You can't have it both ways

4- Who's we? Your the one that insists Blount can't carry the ball or score on short yardage. 

and no you didn't answer my question. You said who you'd prefer and then wrote a book to justify your opinion which I respect. but it's still not answering the question "genius". Quite frankly, I'd prefer west solely because I like the guy and he's more reliable off field. We're talking player on the field for the same price here.

Is West an upgrade over Blount for 2017? If you say yes then your out of your mind. You can always say no but..... Then bring up all the other factors that would tempt you chose west over Blount 

Im done here, you can have last word 😉

3 minutes ago, Purple Dawg 96 said:

Yes, West runs with an attitude and KD is a beast as well! But if teams don't fear the pass our RBS will get hurt because they can't keep running with 7 to 8 players in the box on Defense with no fear of the pass like in the past the Offense gets too predictable and stale at times to me making them too predictable! Brady opened it up for Woodhead and and now his new RB and we need the same out of Joe and the play calling!

I think most of us here agree that the play calling must change!

KD showed flashes of greatness then broke all our hearts in the summer

West is almost impossible to root against. Effort is never gonna be his downfall.

Just now, hen826957 said:

I still would like the draft corner to contribute though. Let him rotate in the secondary with Young.

Oh he better contribute lol

its just that he won't need to cover #1 WRs anytime soon. Even if J.Smith gets hurt Carr will play 1 and rookie 2 with young killing at slot.

9 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

I would take West over Blount for 2017. I don't care about TD numbers from RBs, because I understand that they deviate on an annual basis greatly and are far too erratic to count on. So unless I'm getting double digit TDs guaranteed from Blount (which nobody can say with any remote certainty), I think West is a better RB, so I'd take him.

If the goal is to field the best team with the resources we have, then my money wouldn't be best spend on a RB.

And its obviously very presumptuous to think that West would be gone if we signed Blount, given that you'd still only effectively have 2 RBs on the roster.

All of this again is meaningless to me, because I think this article is click bait. I don't think we're even remotely interested in any FA RB right now, nor should we be. If we look to add a back, it will be in the draft.

I would also point out that going the 3rd/4th round route has mostly worked for us, because a lot of our better players are coming from the mid-round these days. If you're talking RBs exclusively, its far too small of a sample size and not good enough of an offensive line to notice.

Yes I'm talking about RB specifically of course! And how is 3 RBs in taken in the 3rd and 4th rounds in 3 consecutive years a small sample?

I agree, I don't think we are in the hunt for a RB but I'm just weighing the options of west (1.7mil zero guaranteed vs other options) sorry I didn't write the article. If it was so meaningless then why are you fighting for your life over it lol

and it's fair to assume we let go of west since we're assuming that were signing someone in the first place. Your also assuming that we keep both when no one inferred the latter.

and we do have more than 2 RBs. (Tallifaro and Allen can compete for #3 and 4 on the depth charts) your also assuming we don't draft any RB. Now look who's assuming.

and based on last year, Blounts chances of getting 10 TDs are higher than the latter because we failed drastically when it was 1st and goal. Wait you just said you don't care about TDs then followed your statement by saying unless someone guarantees 10 TDs... Which one is it?

and once again. I'm comparing the 1.7 mil tendered for west vs Blount if he was signed. No one is saying hey lets get yet another RB

and last but not least. Please answer the question. Is Blount for the price of west an upgrade for 2017 or a downgrade? 

Just take the guy with the highest ceiling. We don't need him to start day 1 so we can be patient as he matures. It would be awesome to one day have two top 10 cbs on this team