Halshayeji

24 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

1. Correct, those are special players. I thought that was kind of the goal was it not... playmakers? Or are we just looking for another plodder who averages 4.0 YPC? I mean if you think that's good enough, so be it. I see a mountain full of 3rd and 4th round picks in this draft that I think can do that in their sleep, so why would I pay $2M for that?

2. LOL, I didn't choose one statistic. I chose many statistics. My other post listed about 5 different statistical reasons why he's a declining RB. That's not something you did. You picked the most recent year and assumed that because he did it last year, he would do it again this year. I don't think I have to explain the gigantic fallacy in that.

3. No, I'd rather have West. I want a guy who has the potential to break a run more than 5 yards, and can actually get a bit more than what is blocked for him.

Its sort of a pointless question though, because I'm not interested in signing a RB for a single season. That accomplishes very little for us.

1- I wish a fournette fell to us and yes the goal is to have the best players in the NFL  on the field but when you have limited resources then you do what you can to field the best team with the resources you have until you get that player. We have been trying the 3rd or 4th round route for 3 years and that hasn't worked...

theoretically, if we do sign Blount then I'm hoping Dixon comes back and beats him out. Untill then, at least I know we have a proven guy.

2- as you said "you chose your statistics" that you believe prove your point while completely ignoring any other statistic that proves otherwise. You and I both know that any case can be made when you pick and chose your statistics.

3- you still havnt answered my question.... If you have Blount for the price of west for 2017 is that an upgrade or a downgrade? 

And now it's gonna sound like I'm unappreciative of west when I really like the kid but here goes. you'd prefer west over Blount because he breaks tackles and the possibility of him hitting big gains? But that's not what west is good at or fair of you to expect him to hit big runs. He's doesn't have "getaway speed" nor is he an elusive guy.

lemme ask again. Blount for the price of west and the same duration of contract (2017)Upgrade or downgrade?

pe:- I miss u RMC. We havnt had one of these rallies in a while lol

8 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

You're also forgetting that if you drop West and add Blount, Blount is your bellcow RB for the first 4 weeks of the year. That's not short yardage RB... that's 15-20 carries a game, expected to get 5+ yards per carry, because that's what you expect of those RBs.

3.9 YPC is something you yawn at... you want to cut West, who is a 3.9 YPC back. Its fringe NFL starter caliber, preferably backup caliber.

Guys who average that over an extended period of time find themselves unemployed very quickly.
 

5+ yards per carry are pro bowl callibar players. If a player averages over 5 yards a carry in his career then we start talking HOF not splitting carries. We're talking about someone you pay 2 mil for.

i chose 2016 because it's the most rescwnt year

and if you insist, Blount averaged 4.4 yards a carry throughout his career. As I mentioned earlier. 3.9 was a product of so many short runs by design. 

im not gonna talk statistics with you because you will chose the one statistic that you think proves your point and hold on to it for dear life.

instead il ask you a question with the hope that you answer. If you had Blount for the price of west in 2017, is that an upgrade over west or a downgrade? 

1 hour ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Moot point of course, because we aren't going to pursue either of those guys, nor am I certain they'd want to play for us anyway.

But neither really does much for us. One year stop gap fillers at a position where we don't need a stop gap filler.

I also still don't understand why people think Blount is a good RB...

Maybe because he had 1161 yards,18 TDs and did great in short yard situations. No one is claiming he's the next Jamal Lewis but he'd def help as we often failed to convert on 3rd and 1 or 1st and goal.

i honestly don't understand why you won't even call him a "good" player?

if the tender is retracted from west and we add half a mil to it then we probably land a power back like Blount. Blount carrying the load on short yardage and Woodhead on 3rd downs and slot would be a prity nice one two punch.

1 hour ago, billiejean said:

West isn't a FA. He is a RFA and we tendered him. He doesn't have a choice. Regardless of that, letting him go because we pick up A Peterson or L. Blount wouldn't be a good idea (chances are very slim that we pick of either of them). I wouldn't count on either of those to guys to step up and be the feature back. Peterson is no spring chicken and hes only been healthy for 20 games in the last three years which would make signing him a huge risk. I don't see us taking Blount either. He had a career year in 2016 based on yards gained, but he only averaged 3.9 yards a carry. I also don't think John would even consider bring him in because of his attitude. When he played for the Steelers in 2014 the guy went into the locker room before a MNF game had ended because he didn't get any carries during the game. And because of that the Steelers let him go.

I agree, Peterson is not a great fit in terms of how we'd utilize him but you can't say Peterson is injury prone when we just signed Woodhead who's just as injury prone. Blount is probably not someone Harbs would entertain signing because of his off field mess. But 3.9 yards and 18 TDs is not something you sneeze at. Especially considering so many of those runs were goal line or 3rd and 1 where really he's not expected to gain 10 yards anyways lol. My point was that if we are planning on signing a RB then retract the tender from west now and let him be a FA. It's not fair to the player if we wait until May when no one will sign him for more than the minimum.

Mangold and Clady are the 2 guys I'd love to see in Baltimore ASAP! boyh were rumored to be trade targets last year but it would have been hard to fit them in the cap. This time round we don't need to invest any picks in them and their injuries have dropped their value even more. Seal the deal and let whoever you draft develop untill linemen eventually go down

no its not crazy to pursue A.Peterson or L.Blount. But it's crazy to hold t.west hostage until we figure it out. Teams are filling up their rosters and west deserves to make a few visits before he makes up his mind. Just my humble opinion.

On March 17, 2017 at 2:37 PM, billiejean said:

Frank we are not going to pick up Murray or any other running back like him in free agency.  Why are you so intent on picking up one of the top RBs in free agency.  I would also get prepared to be disappointed when draft time comes around and we don't take a RB in the first 3 rounds.  Cook and Fourtunette will most likely be gone when we get on the clock in the first.

I don't think Murray would have been a great fit with the salary he got. But I do believe someone like a Lagarett Blount would elevate our running game untill Dixon proves he's ready to carry the torch. 

On March 17, 2017 at 9:29 PM, J.O.14 said:

I understand what you're saying. He also knows his worth and was meaning that it didn't come down to money if the offers he had were worth his value. He earned $6 million more than the cards initially offered him....so yeah, they low balled him.

And we offered 6 million less than the Browns. So the cards basically offered him 12 mil less than the Browns lol. Seriously Arizona that's what you call a low ball offer 😂😂 4years 18 mil vs 4 years 30 mil. I'd Hang up too if I was him

On March 17, 2017 at 8:15 PM, J.O.14 said:

I hear everyone talking about this Zach Brown guy. Yeah that would be great and all, but he's gonna be pretty expensive I'm sure (even though ILBs aren't highly paid). It wouldn't surprise me if he will get 5-6 million a year if not a little more. He has also had only one year of production really.

I'm all for drafting Foster. We would get him on his rookie deal and we could sign CJ long term. Foster and CJ together in the middle of our defense with what is in front and behind them would be ferocious. Foster can do it all, and delivers the boom when he hits people. I don't know if I have ever seen a LB coming out of college deliver hits the way he does. He can cover, attacks the LOS, and plays fast. Foster is the only player I would want that doesn't play OL, WR, pass rusher, or CB.

I'm really on the fence here. Foster plays with his hair on fire and I love to see him and CJ play together! Zach brown on the other hand is not to shabby himself and his value is shot for whatever reason. We can get him on a good deal.

 If we take the Zach brown approach then we kind of get 2 quality guys on fair contracts so I'm all in for that 

1 hour ago, BmoreBird22 said:

This is kinda where I'm at with it in a way. The front office, in my opinion, must believe one of three things.

1. The Ravens aren't capable of developing young receivers. I would have believed this very much during the tenure of Jim Hostler and that would be supported by always bringing in these older, established veterans, but I just don't see it now. Engram is a really great receivers coach and we've seen great strides from players like Aiken and Perriman. I think if Engram were really given a bonafide star in the draft to work with (like Mike Williams), he could coach out any deficiencies and turn him into a superstar in the league.

2. The Ravens think Joe can do it all on his own and doesn't need a supporting cast around him. This one is just total bogus no matter who the quarterback is, except for one. I have only ever seen Andrew Luck do so much more with so much less and he was quite possibly the greatest draft prospect in NFL history, so we know that this isn't true.

3. The Ravens believe that no matter who they put out there, Joe is going to look exactly like he has for his entire career. Now, I know Joe hasn't had the greatest group of receivers in the world, but it seems that no matter who's out there, Joe is going to just make the same mistakes and the same throws. It doesn't matter if he has a Gronk or Julio; he's going to be who he is. He's gone through so many receivers, different offensive coordinators, and different philosophies and he's still playing the exact same. Sure, maybe if he had Gronk, Julio, Megatron, AJ Green, and Bell in their primes, he might be lighting up the stat sheet, but no quarterback has anything close to that.

I think the front office is resigned to the idea of giving Joe just enough to work with and not leaving him out to dry, but not hinging all their money on a receiver/tight end group that'd rival the best in the league because Joe is still going to be Joe no matter who is out there. 

Bruital, harsh, but so damn true! I don't see a fourth scenario

Lagarett Blount streight up for Terrance West. anyone?

clady, mangold... They promised to upgrade the run game...

1 minute ago, purpletide said:

I've heard reports that we're still interested in having Webb on the team. I really hope so, he can still contribute as a 3rd safety.

that would be awesome

Come on Webb just come back already. No one loves or misses you like we do....

45 minutes ago, budkretz said:

With Sidney Jones out of the picture, I see the Ravens looking at 3 main possibilities at pick #16: Mike Williams (WR), Dalvin Cook (RB) and Derek Barnett (Edge). If these 3 are gone don't be surprised to see us trade back in the draft -maybe early 20's and get extra picks in round 2 and 3. If this occurs we should be able to get an Edge rusher in round #1 (McKinley, Charlton, Harris) and with the 2nd round pick get a good CB (Conley, Humphrey, Moreau), with the next picks in 2nd & 3rd you get o-line and a ILB and fill other needs. I can see Anquan Boldin come back on a one year deal and what he'll do in the locker room and team rooms is worth his pay alone. If Sidney Jones is available in the 4th round, I would draft him knowing he's a red-shirt but potential is worth it. I also think Ozzie will make a move or two before the draft which will continue to alter the needs as the draft approaches.

Mike Williams and cook will probably be gone by 16th. I'm still not sold in Barnett at 16. 

Looking at the Second round. I'm in love with the talent on the board. The two CBs you mentioned and a few other good guys that may need some developing but their feeling is so high! Ryan Anderson (Alabama) looks like Suggs 2.0 and he may be there when we pick in the second.

Iv seen a few mocks here and there, there's a great chance one of the top 2 Tackles falls to us.  I wouldn't be dissapointed at all if we take one either one at 16

last but not least. If Sidney jones is there in the third then I'd love to see Ozzie pull the trigger. Not often do you get a top 15 talent in the third round. All you gotta do is wait a year. 

30 minutes ago, JamesA119 said:

Rookies seldom make great centers. The center has to make so many pre-snap reads that rookies usually do need to grow into that position. It takes 2 or 3 yrs.
So I think that a trade if they don't sign Mangold is more likely for a center for this season. They can then draft a prospect later in the draft.

Thank you. Finally some sense in the dueling lol

8 hours ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Jordan Matthews is purely their slot receiver. Always has been. 

He literally never lines up out wide. Alshon and Torrey don't effect his snaps at all. 

They run 3 wide a majority of the time. They just now have 2 outside guys. 

 

And yes he's produced about 900 yds per season but with how much he was force fed he should've had more. He's been they're only receiver his entire tenure there other than playing with Maclin his rookie year. 

Outside of that the other weapons have been that white WR from Florida, Nelson Aghalor, Dorial Green-Beckham, Bryce Treggs, and Paul Turner. 

His rookie year literally everyone in that offense put up crazy inflated numbers bc of Chip Kelly's offense. Ran by far the most offensive plays in the league. Then the past two years he's been the only WR that can even catch a ball. 

 

I like him as a player but hes purely a slot guy so very limited. And for a slot guy he's not physical where he makes contested catches. Kelly was really good at scheming him into space. 

 

Im telling you... with now 2 other NFL quality receivers on the team with him his numbers are going down. 

But it doesn't matter anyways bc it's not happening. If we had a 7th to throw away I'd be cool with that. Def wouldn't give up a 4th or higher to have to pay $8m/yr for a slot receiver that can't produce on the outside.

 

i live in Philly now. See this guy every week during the season and what everyone thinks of him. He disappears for long stretches and then will put up 10 catches for 120 yds in a meaningless game or in garbage time. 

Not trying to kill the guy. He's a nice player. But he's at best a 2nd or 3rd fiddle in a good group, exclusively in the slot without reliable hands. Kamar Aiken can do the same for 1/5th of the price and no draft pick. 

You make a lot of valid points. He's no R.Moss but that's not what we need or what we're paying for. I still think he's worth a 5th or maybe a 4th. If he prices himself out then we get a comp pick. Heck perriman may be a #1 this time next year and problems solved lol

3 hours ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Yea thatd me an amazing deal for the Ravens considering we dont even have a 7th.

If Oz pulls that off --- best GM ever.

 

-- 

On a serious note, Matthews has been underwhelming. His production is largely a product of being the only show in town and force fed the ball. Kamar Aiken syndrome.

And he has bad drops... fairly frequently.

And he wants to get PAID. Thats the only reason the Eagles were thinking of shopping him.

 

More importantly i dont think the Eagles are giving him up now unless a crazy good deal comes up... bc when they were shopping him was when they were trying to work out a deal for Cooks or sign Britt -- both of whom wouldve offered them long term stability at the position.

Since they signed Torrey and Alshon both to 1 year deals, they got themselves weapons for this year but nothing outside of it. If they trade Matthews, Alshon has a great year and gets $15m/yr from someone else and say Torrey doesnt do well.... then they're left with Nelson Aghalor, DGB, Paul Turner. Worst WR group in the league.

 

So, unless someone throws them a 1st/2nd rounder or a good CB that can start immediately i dont see them giving him up. At least until into the season if Alshon shows hes a baller and they lock him up long term. Then maybe.

Why would you say he "uverwelmingly" when he averaged 900 yards from 3 different Qbs in his first 3 years? I think that's pritty good considering the circumstances. He'd only cost s million so heck. He's worth something even if he leaves and we get a comp. 

Well they can't trade agolahor because they virtually kill cap space so they have to develop him and get something. If their GM doesn't trust the 20 mil he just spent on WRs then he shouldn't have gotten them lol.

So really Matthews won't get playing time and will leave next year and probably land them a low comp pick the following year 2018. Or they can just trade him for a pick two years earlier. A general rule in picks is that a pick moves up a round in value each year. So a 4th this year is worth a third next year and a second the year after that.

the Eagles won't get more than a 4th and should jump on it if offered. I think if the Ravens offer a 5th this year we get Matthews.

1 hour ago, Purple Dawg 96 said:

I'm sorry I'm still on the fence about this move and I hope he proves me wrong! No diss I'm just sayin look at the backs in this this division they all in Beast Mode! Prove me wrong Woody!

That's fair. He is 32 coming of 2 serious injuries in 3 years. Same red flag as Charles and Peterson. But he will make Flacco look a lot better. He's one of the best 3rd down backs and slot WRs. I would mind him moving to full time slot when Dixon comes back. That's how good a pass catcher I think he is.

So it's no secret, the Ravens need a WR. Preferably a big guy that can move the chains. It's also no secret, the Ravens can't afford a marquee FA or guarantee that a top rookie falls to 16. 

The Eagles signed A.Jeffry and T.Smith early in FA. They also have a first rounder in Aglohor that they won't get rid of so J.Matthews is officially on the block.

1 year left on his rookie deal for 1 mil. He averaged 900 yards and 6 TD during his 3 years in philli. 6'3 4.46 40.

obviously if the Ravens give up a 7th for him it's a great deal for the Ravens but not philli.

If you were Ozzie and had Philli on the line, what would you offer?

Just now, Purple_City39 said:

Orr won't count because he retired as opposed to went to another team.  Same reason SSS won't count.

The Cowboys dead money for Carr.......is actually a great question.  I just noticed they have 2.7M allocated to dead cap for him, per "over the cap", and that honestly doesn't make sense to me

I'm so sorry guys. This whole time i was saying Orr and thinking Guy lol

dsmn all these names are hard to remember

Just now, GrimCoconut said:

The only time FA signings don't count is if they are cut FA. If the Cowboys cut Carr that would be different. Wagner is an URFA, and so is Dumervil; however, Wagner had his contract expire while Dumervil was cut. Dumervil, if he signs elsewhere, will not count but Wagner does

That part I do get. Doom doesn't count but Wagner does. The part I don't get is why Ducase counts but Orr doesn't. And why do the Cowboys have dead money if Carr counts against the comp formula?

Damn it! Lol

6 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

You're way off base on the comp picks.  It's a 1-for-1 cancel out process, and it's unrestricted free agents that factor in.  Orr doesn't factor in at all.

Right now, we've lost Wagner, Juice, Guy, and Ducasse.  We've gained Jefferson, Carr, and Woodhead.  That will cancel out and leave us 1 comp pick.

I wish I understood the comp pick formula better. But I'm almost certain that Carr doesn't count against that formula.

so in this scenario. Is Jefferson canceled out by Juice or Wagner? If ts juice then Wagner lands us a 3rd. If Wagner then juice probably lands us a 4th or 5th

to me, if your expecting a 3rd round comp the. It's worth passing fighting for but if all you get is a 4th or a 5th then heck go out and get the best FA you can

FA started about a week ago and those first couple of days were crazy! After the first wave, it slowed down a bit awaiting a spark that started what I'd call the domino effect and here we are. The second wave has begun. 

1- A week ago, I thought there was no way we land a high comp pick for Wagner. The restricted FA market was so deep and teams had so much money to spend. It turned out that most of the marque FAs either stayed with their teams or signed 1 year prove it deals. ( Jeffry, Poe, Pryor, Cousins, Hightower, etc...) This basically explains why Ozzie wouldn't move from 5 mil he offered Clayborn(restricted FA).

In theory, Jeffersons contract gets canceled out by Juice, Guy, and Ducase. That leaves Wagner as our biggest loss and Carr doesn't count against that as he was an unrestricted FA vs Clayborn who might have canceled that all out.

Final verdict:- Ozzie is probably done signing anyone that counts against the comp pick formula.

2- looking ahead into the draft, we no longer have to fish for a day 1 starter. This opens up the possibility of drafting the CB with the highest ceiling instead of the highest floor. Remember when we drafted Jimmy Smith. He was obviously physically gifted but needed time to transition that talent into NFL skills. We are in perfect position to do the same with the way Carr's contract is structured.

Final verdict:- 10-12 CBs could go in the first 2 rounds. Look past the NFL ready guys and keep an eye on a CB that runs sup 4.4 and is 6'0 or above. Someone who could be a pro bowler in 2 years

3- Is there still any debate that this team is trying to win now?! We need to allocate 6 mil for rookies and that's covered by Areington and Watson. Ozzie will make 1 more swipe at a player before the Draft.

Final Verdict:- Who may that be???

1 hour ago, iceripper said:

I hope we sign a veteran DL. Guy's gone and I don't trust Kafusi or Urban. Ricky Jean-François would be a nice signing.

Losing guy was an underrated loss but we have Bwill and Jernigan locked in as starters. I want to see Urban, Pierce, Davis, Lewis, and Kafusi kill each other for playing time. I also would love to see Judon play DE on obvious passing downs or DT with jernigan when we line up in a 4-3 set.