GhostofGrbac

Guess Joe Thomas is terrible since the Browns only have 3 wins. Or we can stick with QB and go with Rivers this year

How many points per game did the offense score with Flacco compared to without Flacco(and I mean the offense), that is a much more telling stat to me if someone wants to look it up.

Where did I say any player was terrible? 

I got your point.  I just don't agree with it.  We were fine until we started losing players, which was almost right away.  We lost Suggs Week 1...  And Campanaro and Waller pretty fast too...  My point was the topic is "Joe Flacco Out for the Season".  WE were discussing how much we missed him, and his impact on the team and the game as a whole

I disagree that we were fine. This team as a whole hasn't looked good all season IMO. 

That's an incredibly simplistic way of looking at it. Not all losses are the same. By that logic, all wins are the same so all 6-0 teams are the same, and you can ask the Panthers and Falcons how that theory turned out.

Of course they're not all the same, but in the end they mean the same thing. 

We did lose a lot of games, but it's hard for me to find a 35-6 loss anywhere in the Joe games. We were at least competitive and made teams work for it.

A loss is a loss. Regardless if it's 35-6 or 27-24. 

Absolutely Mod 3.  We began losing pieces pretty quickly....  Camp, Waller, Gillmore, SSS;  They started dropping like flies.  Joe was on pace to have one of his best statistical seasons of his career.  When you say that "Joe was pretty bad this season", I think you're summing that up to be responsible for the entire offense.  Prior to him going down, we were averaging about 23 - 27 points per game.  A couple we actually scored over 30.  When our defense was hurting, he was putting the points up that kept us in MANY of those games....  Defense is starting to come together (except for yesterday), and you have the offense putting up 13,, 19, and 6, respectively.

 

The grass is always greener for some fans.

I think you completely missed my point. I'm talking about the team as a whole. We weren't much better with Flacco in there. The record shows that.

Life without Joe looks pretty bad.

To be fair life with Joe was pretty bad this season too. 

Explain to me how Givens wouldn't be able to make a play on that ball when the defender, who was literally step for step with him the entire way down the field, WAS able to do just that?  The statement that my photo evidence is disputing was 1/28/01's claim that:

 

 

You're not helping yourself, if that's the level of argument you're going to bring to the table.  The entire point of my argument is that the RESULTS were a function of the WR's reaction on the play.  So you can't dispute my point by saying "Look at the results!"  

Givens was clearly expecting the ball to be thrown in front of him. His momentum was carrying him towards the endzone. Do you really expect him to be able to stop on a dime, and come back to a severely underthrown ball?

I get that you have an agenda. You've shown it here and on the other board. You always want to blame someone else for Joe's mistakes. It makes having a discussion with you nearly impossible. So lets agree to disagree and end it. We've had literally the same exact discussion on the other board. 

The two throws I compared in another post were the one that was batted away by Matthieu in Arizona and the one he caught from Schaub. I think those throws were almost exactly the same, except the defender made a spectacular play on one and the defender was nowhere to be seen in the other.

I agree. Those throws were very similar. Neither are comparable to the throw in the Jaguars game. 

 "It was severely underthrown, the other was slightly underthrown."  That's NOT an answer!  Explain in what way one was more egregious than the other, and keep in mind that in one case, the receiver was step for step with the defender, and in the other case the receiver had multiple steps wide open on his defender.

Are you serious with this? Explain why one was more egregious? One was freaking intercepted and the other one wasn't. 

I have no idea how you can say that.  Prove your point.  Did you see the videos?  Did you see the screen caps I posted above?

 

To me, Flacco's is usually less likely to be intercepted in the NFL, as long as the receiver plays it correctly.  He has the positional advantage as they're step for step and the ball is to the outside, the side that Givens is on relative to the defender, and if they both play the ball at the same spot, Givens has the position advantage and at worse the ball should fall incomplete, but this is the pass that Flacco routinely got a DPI call on from Torrey Smith as Torrey goes to play the ball and the defender can't avoid contacting him during his attempt to make the catch, thus DPI, or at worst just an incomplete pass.  Schaub's is probably more likely to be intercepted, regardless of the fact that Givens played it smartly, precisely because it was so underthrown and that Givens had a couple steps on him.  Givens has to stop and sit on it and gives the defender ample time to make up ground and get to the ball, that's how while Givens is sitting there waiting for the ball to get to him, the defender could have gotten to it and jumped in front of him to intercept it.  The defender very nearly did just that, despite Givens being wide open in front of the defender when the ball was thrown and for most of the time while the ball was in the air.  On the Flacco throw, Givens never wound up beating House, never had a step on him, and so both of them were step for step the whole way and if they'd both decided to play the ball at the same time, it shouldn't get intercepted.  The positional advantage was Givens' but he squandered it and didn't take advantage, overran it, didn't play the ball, and so the defender was left alone with the play on the ball.

The videos prove my point. On the Flacco throw GIvens would have had to stop his momentum and come back to the ball. On the Schaub throw all he had to do was slow down a little bit.

Schaub's throw was nowhere near as underthrown as Joe's was. If you truly think that, then there's no need in continuing this discussion. 

My point is that they're essentially the same throw... one is an interception, one is a catch, and the biggest difference between the two is how the receiver played it, not the throw.

The biggest difference is one was severely underthrown (Flacco). The other one was slightly underthrown. 

I have no idea how you can look at those 2 plays and say they're essentially the same throws. 

I had to think about it too because I was yelling at my TV too. LOL.

Yeah I couldn't understand what they were doing. Tucker was off today so you would have thought they would try and get closer to make it easier.

I thought so too.

It was. I just looked at the drive chart. My mistake

Wasn't it two? A handoff and then the spike?

It might have been. I can't really remember. I was yelling at the TV while the clock continued to run. Now we know why another play wasn't run before the FG.

I do believe he played two or three plays with the injury.

He took one snap after the injury and that was to spike the ball. 

This might be Flacco's worst game of his career. He is absolutely awful today. 

The more I think about this, the more I like it. I think it's a reminder that they're being graded on every practice and every play. If they want a job next year, better show the effort now.

I don't think they need a sticker to remind them that they're being graded on every practice and play. 

This is kids stuff. No player cares about this stuff. Harbaugh is out of touch with his motivational techniques and always has been IMO. His corny phrases and now effort stickers are just embarrassing. 

Sr even now is a great player and legit #1, I'd take him over Edelman and Boldin easily.

I think people around here vastly overrate Boldin based on the 2012 playoff run. He had some great games but was never consistent in putting them together. You make such a big deal about Edelman having only 1 1,000 yard season, Boldin never got 1,000 yards with us. The year we traded him to San Fran and after he went off in week 1, he got held to 7 yards by Sherman. SSS would never be held to that total by Sherman.

Wouldn't take Edelman over Boldin but the difference is much less than that between Gronk and Torrey.

I think people around here vastly overrate a few players based on the 2012 playoff run. That was just a magical run. Everything clicked at the right time and the rest is history.

I'm not making a big deal about Edelman and 1,000 yards. Just pointing out that for such a great receiver it's only happened once. That's all. 

And yeah Boldin never got 1,000 yards with us, but his 3 years here were very similar to Edelman's last 3 seasons from a production standpoint. 

Jimmy might be "healthy" enough to play, but there's no doubt that he's not 100% recovered from the lisfranc injury. He may never be 100%. That's an injury that has ended careers.

With that said Webb has played better, but that's not saying much. They've both struggled. I think Pees definitely shares some of the blame for their struggles.

The way it was phrased made it seem like he isn't a quality receiver, but he was well on his way to being one of the top 10 receiving leaders in the league.

I don't think anyone is saying he isn't a quality WR. I do think think he's a product of the system in NE though. That's not meant as a knock on him or anything. He can definitely play. They just use him in the right way. 

A few were saying he's much better than SSR and Boldin (when he was here). That's simply not true.

And as far as Edelman goes, he's had one 1,000 yard receiving season because in 2012, he played in 13 games and put up 950 yards and this year, in nine games, he had 650 yards and seven touchdowns, clearly on pace for 1,000 yards and more.

Just wanted to clear up some fallacies

That's all well and good, but injuries are part of the game. The fact is he's only had 1 1,000 yard season.

SSR was on pace for 1,000+ yards this season also. 

I could state a VERY strong case that only Brady and Ben are outplaying Joe Cool!! And they both have stud receivers!!

I'd love to hear this. 

Just for simplicity sake; and also so nobody thinks I'm just cherry-picking Edelman's best years.

 

I did miss your post about their stats, but I can tell you Edelman posts about 75% more receptions annually than Boldin did, more yards as a result, I think their TD totals were pretty close though. Edelman had a few more, but nothing worth talking about

Yeah Edelman has more receptions(past 3 seasons), but he surprisingly only had 75 more yards than Boldin did in his 3 years here. 

It's just closer than most people think when you really dig into the stats. I personally think Edelman is a product of the system to an extent. I don't think he'd have half the production if he was on another team. 

I'm mad we IRed Campanaro for him.

Why? I don't think Campanaro would have been able to come back from a herniated disc this season. 

This whole Perriman situation has been strange from the start. It sucks, but at least it's finally over for this season at least. The guy has a lot to prove next season. 

No friend, you are the delusional one. Edelman LAST year (92 rec, 974 yards, 4 TD) was better than anything Boldin did for us in his time here, and this season, Edelman has been on fire.

 

If you are going to call people "delusional", at least keep the conversation consistent. We are talking about Boldin WHEN HE PLAYED FOR US, not Boldin throughout his career.

Why are you just looking at 1 year? Boldin was here for 3, so compare that to Edelman's last 3 seasons. The stats are very close. I posted them earlier in this thread. Guess you missed them.