GhostofGrbac

39 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

You've presented stats, but haven't ever actually said how a receiver is made better by his quarterbacks.

Calvin Johnson played with a rotation of Dan Orlovsky and Shaun Hill for much of his early career. However, in Stafford's first fully healthy season, 2011, Johnson lit up the league for 1600 yards and 16 touchdowns. Did Stafford magically make the best receiver in football into the best receiver in football?

Also, you dodged my Mike Wallace question. Doesn't fit your narrative, huh?

Calvin Johnson has arguably the best season of his career in Stafford's first fully healthy season. So yeah Stafford made Johnson a more productive (aka better) WR.

The Calvin Johnson thing doesn't even factor in to what I'm talking about though. You're talking about the #2 draft pick while I'm talking about late round guys like Colston.

I didn't dodge your Wallace question. It's hard to follow on a phone when you respond to every single post I make.

Yes Wallace is a more productive (aka better) WR with Flacco than he was in Minnesota and Miami.

19 minutes ago, Ravenseconbeast said:

Again 'better'  is probably not the best word, not sure what word i should be using.

Well whatever the cut off point is, if Flacco can't perform, we have to find another route.  Just way it is.  My belief is you should hold every player accountable.  If the organization had success working in a certain manner then they should keep it that way.   Our lengthy success was 'right player at the right price'   I really think that main philosophy has gone further away from the way our organization use to run things.   We are going to a dark/dimly lit road.   It's not working.   

I also think circling around a new OC is not going to solve the problem.  Do our organization really have to hold BOTH 120m QB AND get LUCKY enough to get a stud OC?  AND a STUD OL AND a WR?  In reality this either means:   deplete the defense talent, and rely on offense.   Or deplete the offense, and rely on defense.  If you have money packed on certain area, it needs to have that value work.  

Or you can sprinkle the talent around and make everything a dud.   That is what i mean by 'right player right price'   Every player needs to hold that value for the team to outdo the talent of the other team.

Yeah I will agree that better might not be the best word. More productive is probably better. Still pretty much the same point though.

3 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

You've presented stats, but haven't ever actually said how a receiver is made better by his quarterbacks.

Calvin Johnson played with a rotation of Dan Orlovsky and Shaun Hill for much of his early career. However, in Stafford's first fully healthy season, 2011, Johnson lit up the league for 1600 yards and 16 touchdowns. Did Stafford magically make the best receiver in football into the best receiver in football?

Let's see Calvin Johnson has arguably the best season of his career during Stafford's first fully healthy season.

Are you seriously trying to say that Stafford had nothing to do with Johnson becoming a more productive/better player?

It's a ridiculous question on your part anyway. You're talking about the number 2 overall draft pick while I'm talking about late round guys like Colston.

8 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

If you know anything about Colston from the draft, the biggest questions were regarding his route running and the tweener status of possibly being a tight end, never his catching ability. Not to mention Sean Payton is one of the top 3 offensive minds in the game.

Greg Jennings also worked with a three man rotation in 2013 and a rookie in 2014. Despite this, he was actually pretty damn productive for the Vikings. He then dealt with numerous injuries in 2015. He didn't fall off a cliff.

But again, Mike Wallace had a horrendous season with the Vikings in 2015. He's already exceeded his yardage, YPC, and touchdown totals (should surpass his catch totals against the Steelers) in just seven games, despite playing in 16 in Minnesota. Is Flacco making Mike Wallace a better receiver?

It's pretty clear that you're only interested in arguing at this point. I've posted numerous examples and you continue to ignore them. Which you obviously have the right to do.

We'll just have to agree to disagree. There's no point in us continting to clutter up this thread.

2 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

No, there's no examples of how a quarterback makes a receiver better since a receiver has to run the routes and has to catch the ball. 

Can the quarterback make their life easier? Sure, but that isn't making them better. A player isn't magically going to get better if they're traded halfway through the year to a new team with a better quarterback. That's just not how it works and it's a false narrative in the NFL.

So Colston becoming a pro bowl level WR had absolutely nothing to do with Brees? Yeah ok.

Greg Jennings was a pro bowler with Aaron Rodgers. He left and his career fell off a cliff. But yeah Rodgers didn't make him a better player or anything.

6 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

You have yet to answer how he would make them better.

Give them opportunities to make plays, trust in them, switch up calls to put them in a position to succeed on the field.

There have been a few examples posted in this thread and refuse to acknowledge them. Probably because it doesn't fit your narrative.

7 minutes ago, FastEddie said:

Flacco topics always seem to rub us Ravens fans the wrong way. Guy played out of his mind that super bowl run....where did that go?

Right now it's pretty obvious he isn't comfortable with his personnel, which is an issue. However, Joe shouldn't get off the hook that easy.

I think we need a restructure badly..

Not taking anything away from Flacco. That was an incredible super bowl run, but anyone that thought he would be able to sustain that level of play is crazy.

That 4 game stretch didn't wipe away his inconsistencies through out his career leading up to the super bowl and now.

1 minute ago, BmoreBird22 said:

How do they make them better? Answer that.

Guys with marginal talent have turned into stars playing with guys like Brees and Brady. Take Marques Colton for example. A 7th round picked turned into one of the best WR's in the game for a few years. Do you honestly think Brees had nothing to do with that?

3 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

This is a total myth in football. I don't know how a quarterback is even supposed to do this.

So a guy like Brees doesn't make the players around him better? How about Brady turning a converted QB into a stud slot WR?

17 minutes ago, Moderator 3 said:

Joe wasn't playing lights out before his injury last year so I'm ready to question his coaching. Wasn't Mornhingweg brought in last year to be his QB coach?  Maybe he undid all of Kubiak's good work. 

 

At what point will you question Flacco? These coaches are not the reason his mechanics are awful, they're not the reason he struggles to identify an obvious blitz, they're not the reason Joe is locking onto his primary read.

Up until the last 2 seasons we were able to mask Joe's flaws with the run game. Now it's all on Joe's shoulders and he's showing that he can't handle it. For the money he makes he should be able to carry this team and make players around him better. And he's just not doing it.

Just now, OUravensfan said:

Sack numbers alone don't paint the entire story of the pass protection situations for all those teams. Flacco has been the most hurried QB in the league by volume and that's exactly what we didn't need the year after an ACL

Where are you getting this info from? Just curious, I was looking earlier and couldn't find it

3 minutes ago, Moderator 3 said:

But we don't have separate threads for those.  Just try to do better than complaining about his play. That does no one any good.  

So basically don't criticize Joe? 

Just now, Moderator 3 said:

No merge from me (for now). This one is different from the not practicing and the rather have threads.  If it morphs into "rather have" it will get merged, though.  I just ask that you try to be more original than "he sucks, bench him".  That's old and not productive.

To be fair so are the constant excuses. 

I'm sure this will be merged. Some people can't handle the truth on here. They'd rather burry it in an existing thread. 

24 minutes ago, MTRavensFan said:

Nobody's mentioned the impact of the injury to Joe's throwing shoulder. As of Friday he was still questionable to play, and then needed more "treatment" during warm-ups to start. It's pretty obvious to me by the 4th quarter the cortisone shots had worn off and he was playing through tremendous pain. 

Inaccuracy was not Joe's fault. Harbaugh should have had the guts to bench him for his own good. Obviously they have no confidence in Mallet.

Inaccuracy wasn't Joe's fault? I'm sorry but his shoulder discomfort has nothing to do with him setting his feet. You throw off your back foot and it's going to affect accuracy. 

There's always an excuse. 

6 minutes ago, OUravensfan said:

But not the run game or pass pro Dalton has. Hill had 9 carries for over 160, we had 10 carries for 10 yards................

That Cincy O-line has a 8.2% sacked rate (22 sacks in 246 pass attempts) which is the 2nd worst % in the league. Compare that to the Ravens who have a 4.3% sacked rate (14 sacks in 308 attempts). That ranks as the 6th best %. Cincy has given up 34 QB hits compared to our 44. 

As for the running game the Bengals are only averaging 30.1 more rush yards per game, and have 1 more rushing TD than us. I do agree that Cincy has a better run game, but It's a little closer than people think. 

19 minutes ago, ellicottraven said:

Flacco hasn't been particularly great at deep balls this season. He's had a few connections with Wallace for sure, but every one of Perriman's deep ball misses can be attributed to bad throws by Flacco. So give Perriman time to be able to make adjustments and catch balls even if badly placed.

The whole "Joe throws a great deep ball" thing has always been a myth. 

http://presnapreads.com/2016/03/24/the-mike-wallace-effect-deep-ball-accuracy-and-ryan-tannehill/

This article breaks down 20+ yard throws by QB's that attempted at least 250 passes in 2015. According to that site Flacco threw 35 passes over 20 yards. 15 were accurate, 24 were not. His 38.5% accuracy is only above Cousins, Fitzpatrick, Foles, Smith, Hoyer, Osweiler, and McCown.

17 minutes ago, Tornado700 said:

Back in 1999 and 2000, we had a pair of average QB's named Banks and Dilfer making average at best salaries. I can easily remember the Ravens buying some seriously talented free agents. Guys like Sam Adams, Quadry Ismael, Shannon Sharpe, Rob Burnett, Mike McCrary, Goose, and Rod Woodson, et al. This is when Art Modell stated that this team is special and he was right. It begs the question, why can't we sign this kind of talent anymore? Is it because we don't have the money to sign them? And if so, is it because we are paying one guy 120 million dollars?

Joe's deal has something to do with it, but we have a bunch of bad contracts on this team. So many aging veterans not living up to their deals. 

Just now, rmcjacket23 said:

For the same reason you decided to troll with useless stats...

Again, I actually watch NFL games. I already knew that Joe was playing at a Case Keenum level. I didn't need to go to the ESPN stats section and look up some meaningless stats to support that.

Do you have any actual solutions or reasons for this or did you just feel like stating something obvious and hoping people would be in awe by it?

Pretty sure everyone here watches NFL games pal.

I'm trying to make the apologists aware of just how awful Joe has been this season. There's still excuse after excuse in these threads. 

Again if you don't like it don't respond. It's that simple. 

2 minutes ago, allblackraven said:

What does right now mean in the QB context? Swap them weekly based on their current stats? 

Their production at this point in the season. 

Just now, rmcjacket23 said:

Why would I care which QB I want right now? Are they going to stop playing football anytime soon?

Did the NFL announce today that they are switching to a DFS format where we can just buy a new QB every week depending on matchups and prices?

I mean what's the point of even posting something like this? To show that Flacco isn't very good right now? 

Well gee, I guess if I had been living in North Korea for the last two months, I might not have noticed that.

SMH.

Why respond if you don't care? Because I pointed out that your boy Flacco is playing on the level of Case freaking Keenum?

12 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Well player A is Case Keenum and player B is Joe Flacco.

So I'll take the guy who's actually proven to play well in his career.

I do find it funny that like half of the stats you referenced have absolutely nothing to do with quality QB play whatsoever, but nice try.

Apparently reading comprehension isn't your strong suit. Notice how I said right now?

I look forward to your snarky, know it all response. That seems to be your schtick on here. 

Which QB are you taking right now?

QB A: 237 attempts, 62%, 1,708 yards, 8 td's 10 int's, 7.2 avg, 77.5 QB rating

QB B: 308 attempts, 61.4%, 1,837 yards, 5 td's 6 int's, 6 avg, 75.4 QB rating

Just now, darklight1216 said:

It kind of looked Moore wasn't where he should have been.

It kind of looked like Joe just missed an easy throw again

Just now, RayRayRaven said:

yeh I wanna see mallet too, joe is hurt, clear

No Joe is just not very good