The Raven

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Posts posted by The Raven

  3. Posted · Report post

    8 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

    I agree with you, especially on the trenches bit.

    But, i care more about the interior OL and worry that if we offer big money to Wagner our options for upgrading at G/C are very limited. I'd much rather use money to upgrade at LG and C, and put out a mediocre RT than vice versa.

    Pressure up the middle is more damaging to both the passing and run games than pressure off the edge. And if we're good everywhere else we can scheme help for the RT whether its lining up a TE or chipping with a back.

     

    So, if we lose Wagner but use the resources to fix C and maybe even LG then im very much ok with it. If we let Wagner walk and dont do anything with the interior OL either, then thatll be frustrating.

    I agree, just trying to emphasize the fact that you can't just put any old bloke at RT and pretend you'll be okay. There does have to be a legit plan in place to have a solid piece.

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  5. Posted · Edited by The Raven · Report post

    32 minutes ago, jboy19 said:

    I think that people are getting too freaked out over Williams/Wagner/Juice leaving. I'm about 99% sure that no team lives and dies on their Nose Tackle, Right Tackle or Fullback. If someone were to ask me the lowest premium positions in the NFL, my answer would probably be "Fullback, Right Tackle and Nose Tackle". Don't get me wrong, they're all great players and I loved getting to be a fan of theirs, but at the end of the day it probably won't be that catastrophic. 

    Let me put it like this: an elite RT or NT won't be the sole reason you win a Super Bowl, but a mediocre NT or RT is the reason you lose it.

    A mediocre RT lets your QB get strip sacked on the could-be game winning drive of the Super Bowl. A mediocre NT gets an anemic pass rush and lets the offense run the ball for 150 yards -- and if you can't stop the run, you can't do anything on defense.

    Two of the most deflating plays in football are 50 yard rushing touchdowns and sack-strips. That's why I view these positions as vital. But I'm a "game is won in the trenches" kind of guy, so I'm biased. I'd throw big money and draft picks at both lines before I even think about who's playing middle linebacker. 

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  6. Posted · Report post

    14 hours ago, jazz1988 said:

    But yet you call him average? How is being ranked the 10th best NT at stopping the run considered average?  NT in 3-4 defense isn't suppose to rush the passer that's not even their primary job at all  . I will be glad to be wrong if you can find me another 3-4 NT in the NFl that get's consistent pressure on the quarterback.

    It's 2017, not 1987. The teams with good defenses are the ones that get interior pressure. If you're not getting pressure, you're not that special.

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  7. Posted · Report post

    1 hour ago, rossihunter2 said:

    To be fair we filled two oline holes with rookies just this last year... I know a lot of people think zuttah's gone but I'm not sure he is unless we end up drafting a guy to be honest... I think, at least until after the draft, we are only going to be one lineman short (either left guard or right tackle) - zuttah isn't that expensive for an ok centre and there's no point adding needs before the draft

    Yeah, but that's not a regular occurrence by any means. Also, I'm still unsure of Alex Lewis going forward. Sure, he fills the hole, but I do think we could upgrade

    As for Zuttah, I'm pretty sure Zuttah himself would be shocked if we kept him. Writing is on the wall.

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  8. Posted · Report post

    4 hours ago, Ravensfan23 said:

       

    Haha, how bout that? I'm not insane after all.

    I'll say that I would prefer Reiff, I think. I remember loving him in college but I haven't watch a snap of his since he was drafted.

    3 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

    You don't fill a hole with another deadweight contract. That's addressing a hole by adding 2 bigger holes

    Yeah you do. Ozzie's been doing it since 1996. Complimentary pieces -- which Fluker or Reiff would be -- are very often filled in FA. He'll be cheap. We probably have two holes on the offensive line. You think both are going to be filled by rookies? Signing free agents to fill holes is the reality we live in.

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  11. Posted · Report post

    14 hours ago, jboy19 said:

    My issue with Juice is that if one team values him like the TE/H-Back that he is, his value goes from probably 3mil/year to 5mil/year minimum. 

    However, it is worth noting that during the Senior Bowl 2015, Nick Boyle was taking snaps at Fullback during the practice week and apparently showed some promise in a backfield role. So that is probably an option the FO is considering. If he can avoid suspension, he can fill Juice's H-Back role. 

    If we go with that route, I'm game. Boyle is probably a better blocker.

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  12. Posted · Report post

    2 hours ago, jboy19 said:

    Chargers releasing D.J. Fluker. Probably a guy I would look at if the FO isn't going to bring Ducasse back. I remember the Ravens giving him a lot of attention when he was entering the draft. 

     

    2 hours ago, redrum52 said:

    HELL NO

    Fluker played for our new OL coach, too. Played for Bama, too. He's not my favorite guy by a long shot but he fits the bill as "big and strong." With coaching on footwork he could be a solid LG for us, I think. Keep him away from tackle by all means, but he could be a contributor. Though, I didn't see the Chargers much this year so he could have regressed a lot from his rookie year.

    He's a potentially fit and he'll be cheap. At least work him out.

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  14. Posted · Report post

    27 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

    Starting to really come to terms with losing Williams and Wagner. 

    Not saying its over yet and they're gone. Could just be testing what their value is and comparing to where the Ravens are. I also imagine at least Williams will bring any offer he gets on the market back to Ozzie to see if he'll match or come close. I honestly believe he wants to stay, but wont offer a meaningful discount to do so.

    But, even if they both go.... we find OL and DL easy in mid-rounds. I have faith in Pierce to step up. And we need to fix the interior OL. RT's dont grow on trees, but we can get by. Lewis might even be better fit there. We may find out.

    Plus, if not making huge offers to BWill and Wagner means we can bring in Mangold, Marshall/Garcon, and throw the BWill/Wagner money at someone like Zeitler Im ok.

    I think the formula is and should still be build in the trenches. But i dont think RT and 2 down run stuffing NT are the types of guys we necessarily need to hitch our horses to. 

     

    Both are Ravens. And ill hate to see them go. But we cant pay $9m for either quite honestly. Just not worth it when we have guys that can probably do 75-80% of what they can do going into their sophomore seasons.

    It might be best for both camps to walk away.

    I've said it once, I'll say it again, I would throw B Will money at Zeitler in a heartbeat. I'd throw money at him even if it meant cutting Suggs. I desperately wanted him in the draft. He and Yanda would be the best guard tandem of all time, no question.

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  15. Posted · Report post

    7 hours ago, allblackraven said:

    Why do you refuse to accept that the Ravens wanted to do that but couldn't, due to low cap space?

    Wagner was always going to be in a great position in this FA, as long as he was playing well. On one side solid team and little bit of a name already built in Baltimore, on the other lousy tackle market and plenty of teams with need and free $$. Who wouldn't test the market?

    Idk, because I'm also not sold on the fact that we would have made him the highest paid RT. He really doesn't fit the new litmus test of "big and strong" and Ozzie and Harbaugh have talked about. I'm of the belief that right tackles are only worth investing in if they are straight violent blockers that bring the pain. There is zero nastiness to his game. Looking back, we've tended to prefer the nastier guys. Urschel and Wagner aside, the vast majority of our offensive line picks have been brawlers, and Urschel was nasty in college tbh. Don't know where that went.

    Wagner's as good a pass protector as you can ask for at RT, but there's nothing else to his game at all. He's not good on screens, he can't seal on stretch, and he can't pummel his man in short yardage. That's not worthy of top RT money if you ask me. Top RTs, to me, are guys like Bulaga and Vollmer, who smash heads every play.

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  17. Posted · Report post

    4 hours ago, hen826957 said:

    I know that. I'm just saying what's on my mind; frustrated . We have to straighten out this salary cap so we could be able to keep some the important pieces in place. What's happens when CJ Mosley becomes a free agent, are we gonna let him go too and replace him with a rookie LB. Idk Joey. Ozzie and the crew need to fix this salary cap or it's gonna be tough to compete with the same mindset. I'm not saying keep them all every time, just our important ones.

    What do you mean by "fix" the salary cap? 

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  18. Posted · Edited by The Raven · Report post

    14 hours ago, usmccharles said:

    I highly doubt teams just figured out its important to build an oline because of Dallas and Oakland's OL

    I do, actually. If you look around the league there was a definite trend for a couple years of getting away from the run game, ignoring the trenches, and just getting as much firepower as you can. In the passing age, I think some teams underestimated how vital a strong oline is. Oakland and Dallas reminded them of that, in my opinion.

    14 hours ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

    Not only that... their formula has been building the interior line. 

    Which is brilliant if you ask me. A dominant NT or DT is more disruptive than a dominant edge guy on a more regular basis, and interior guys can't be helped by scheme. You can always -- and sometimes easily -- scheme help to both tackles on the same play via a TE/RB chip.

    Also, with a strong interior, the QB doesn't have to worry so much about a collapsing pocket. That's what the Saints had in 09 with their guards, whose names escape me. Brees is short and needs a clean pocket. They had great guards with run of the mill tackles, and it worked. They even had a good run game when they needed it.

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  20. Posted · Report post

    1 hour ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

    I like the Pretty Reckless' stuff. Good to see them getting recognition. Coming as someone who hated the original Champagne Supernova, their cover of that song is freaking great.

     

    "Heaven Knows" Should have been in the movie suicide squad. It's a song that was practically tailor made for the movie. But that movie sucks for a reason. 

     

    Speaking of Suicide Squad, although it is a terrible movie, the soundtrack is freaking awesome. "Sucker for Pain" should be the theme song for us Ravens fans. 

    They were pretty great live. If you ever get the chance, I'd recommend.

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  21. Posted · Edited by The Raven · Report post

    1 hour ago, Ravensfan23 said:

    Everyone is talking about how deep and strong this draft class is at CB and S. I think the Ravens are more likely to save that big money if they can't sign Williams and stick with Webb at Safety while looking to attack the Safety position in the 3rd or 4th round of the draft. If Williams isn't signed, I think that money is saved for guys like CJ and Timmy who will be next in line for nice deals.

    I'd rather lockup CJ and Timmy than Wagner and Williams. Their skill sets are better suited to our team's philosophy.

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  22. Posted · Edited by The Raven · Report post

    4 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

    I agree with you.  His pass blocking would seemingly lend well to the left side and it wouldn't shock me if a team in need gives it a shot, knowing he can go back to RT if it doesn't work out.  Most teams in need of a LT also need a RT so Wagner should carry some heavy value.

    And with the emergence of more left side rushers like Von Miller, et al, he carries even more value. Tackles really do have to block well on both sides these days. People don't seem to understand that defenses have caught on to the trend of putting the freak pass protectors on the left side and have started hammering bad RTs with pass rushers.

    Edit: By people I mean fans. The NFL is slowly catching on and I think we caught on before the rest of the league.

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  25. Posted · Report post

    31 minutes ago, robbie29 said:

    How do you figure last year was Zuttah's worst season with the Ravens? He started all 16 games and played well enough to earn a Pro Bowl nod. Pro Bowl selection may not be the 100% final say whether a guy is great, but it's pretty clear that he's at least better than most other Centers in the NFL. You could very easily argue that last year was actually Zuttah's best year with the Ravens.

    Where do I even begin with this travesty 

    1. I can figure last year was Zuttah's worst season with the Ravens because I have eyes, and with those eyes, I saw that he was absolutely useless in the running game and was a mediocre pass blocker who routinely missed blitz pick ups.

    2. Oh man, he started 16 games. Incredible. So did Kyle Boller once upon a time in 2004.

    3. Yeah, he got a Pro Bowl I guess, but was he All Pro? Oh right, he wasn't. How did PFF rank him? Oh right, poorly.

    4. Pretty clear he's at least better than most centers? Maybe at getting walked back into the pocket and thrown into running lanes. Go watch another team and come back here and tell me how many times the center got pushed back on a run play. How many times did he trip his own QB?

    5. His best year with the Ravens was 2014 and it's not even close. His Pro Bowl this year is probably a mulligan by the league for not putting him in the Pro Bowl then.

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