6 minutes ago, Ravenseconbeast said:

As much as I don't want Marty as our OC next year, I have a feeling we will have a hell of a time trying to convince OC to come here.   

Our history firing and OC leaving after a year is a deterrence.    I'm sure some factor of this played into keeping Marty.   Although I do think our FO/Harb should've waited a bit till the decision was made.   
 

How the hell is it a deterrence that we've had two of our four departed OCs leave for HC jobs? That's a logic-less conclusion if I ever saw one. Two got fired (one of whom is in college and one of whom has never lasted more than three years at any job) and two got promotions, and you think it's a deterrence?

14 minutes ago, jazz1988 said:

This is probably your second time saying this and the last time when I believe I provided sources to prove my case you didn't reply with anything . If you going to say this is false then I would definitely wouldn't mind to see you  share some sources to prove other wise. I have shared it before but here's the link again to prove my case  which is talked about by Ross Tucker link and the conversation about Castillo starts at  the 19:43 mark.

 

If Juan Castillo doesn't run a zone blocking scheme, why have we run zone blocking every year he's been here?

I'll wait.

http://www.baltimoreravens.com/videos/videos/Inside-The-Game-With-Juan-Castillo/ddf63da5-cbb2-4565-86d9-ac4d6985979a

There's Castillo teaching zone blocking on the team's website.

Another source: http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/bs-sp-ravens-zone-blocking-1108-20131107-story.html

The reporter writes, "The zone-blocking scheme hasn't changed drastically since Castillo took charge of the running game this offseason, but there have been tweaks. The Ravens have used more outside stretch runs, but the backs have been bottled up and the gains minimal."

In Nov. 2013, after Castillo arrived, Harbaugh is quoted as saying, "We've been an inside and outside zone team since we got here."

Also, the guy speaking in the radio clip you shared, Ross Tucker. While he was a longtime offensive lineman, he never once played for Castillo.

4 hours ago, jazz1988 said:

    Some position coaches have more influence  than you think .When Rob  Chudzinski was  The Colts tight end coach it was mentioned how he was  involved with  The Colt  passing game especially with their two tight end sets. The same can be said about Jim Caldwell when he was The Ravens quarterback coach and was allowed to add some wrinkles and etc to The Ravens passing attack with the sugar huddle. Some position coaches are actually allowed to implement their own ideas/scheme especially if they are very good  at what they do and are well respected in the league. I believe  It   helps the head coach evaluate his position coaches potentials especially  in the future  if he has to consider a new coordinator and  what better  way to do that than keeping it in house .

   Juan Castillo was once called  the run game coordinator before being name the offensive line coach which isn't really something new in the league. The Saints had a run game coordinator and Marc Trestman had a run game coordinator when he was The Bears head coach . Ultimately the title tells me that these coaches are entrusted to come up with the blocking scheme or atleast the game plan concerning the rushing attack. Castillo has never been a expert with teaching the zone blocking scheme and he has mostly been a power blocking offensive line coach. I think it speaks quite well of him to embrace Gary Kubiak zone blocking scheme and teach it to the offensive line especially since it really isn't his preferred scheme to teach but ever since Kubiak left The Ravens have been getting away from the zone blocking scheme. Maybe that's due to the offensive coordinator preference but even in 2013 when  Castillo was considered to be the run game coordinator the blocking scheme seem different but I know Marty M loves the zone blocking scheme so maybe  The Ravens are looking for expert  to assist  Castillo with that.

 

 

 

 

This is outright false. 

We need to beef up the line to help Joe and the running game, they said. We're not going to re-sign Rick Wagner, they said.

5 hours ago, GrimCoconut said:

I'm not sure where to post this but here's my thoughts on our team:

We need to figure out our identity and draft accordingly because I think that's our big problem right now. What do all the best teams and playoff teams have in common? They know their identity for the most part. I'm not here to play the blame game because there are other threads for that but we need to decide if we'll be a defensive team that controls the clock or an offensive team with a defense to complement the offense. 

I think if we're to be a defensive team controlling the clock then we need to focus on talent at RB, OL, DL and pass rusher. RB controls the clock keeping the offense on the field and the defense off the field. With this type of defense turnovers are great and I dont want to minimize their importance but I think just getting the other team off the field is more important. Pass rusher can force incompletions but doesn't need to be remarkable but must get pressure.

if we're to be an offensive team with an opportunistic defense then we need a defense that forces turnovers to give the ball back to our high power offense. If this is the case then OL, WR, explosive pass rushers and CB are very important to get both sacks and potentially fumbles as well as interceptions. You'll need DBs who can take the ball away more than deflect it with CB comfortable in those types of coverage like the dreaded zone. 

I think the most reliable way to survive these days is to be a good offense with an opportunistic defense. If I were to build a team, that's how I'd do it. In order to have the defense we have, we've had to invest a LOT of draft capital in the front seven, and it hasn't paid off. Our pass rush is anemic and we haven't gotten a lot of picks in recent years, other than this one.

Sure we have a top five young MLB and a top five nose, but what did that really do for us? Not saying they're bad players. Williams is arguably an outdated model, and Mosley is a MLB, which, these days, is not a really impactful position, unless they can man cover the top tight ends, which Mosley can't. They are run stuffing positions. I'd be inclined to build around a pair of pass rushers (inside or outside) and two strong DBs. Those are the defensive building blocks you need today. A pair of pass rushers and a pair on the back end. We don't really have those building blocks.

DL and DB need to be our talent-focus on defense.

On offense, I like the idea of investing everything in the line, and getting a couple sure-handed receivers that fight for yards, a bruising running back, and a Gronk-type tight end who can block, catch, and break tackles. (I'm saying Gronk type, not Gronk level). If it sounds like I'm describing the Patriots, it's because I am.

OL, QB (of course), and either WR or TE need to be the focus areas on offense, if you ask me. If your line is good enough, a no name like Justin Forsett will be good enough. If that no name can catch, then that's even better. Having a top five tight end adds a lot to an offense. Blocking, mismatches galore, and the chance for a lot of YAC after broken tackles, along with the occasional jump ball.

Not happy about not locking up Wagner. To me, he's the clear pick over Williams. Not even close to me. 

I think we'll see Alex Lewis do better at RT than at LG but still. That opens up a hole at LG and possibly a hole at center, too.

17 hours ago, Ravensfan23 said:

Just my personal opinion of course but they don't get open quickly enough to present options for Flacco because their poor route running or in Pitta's case the lack of short area quickness. I'm going back and watching a lot of the offensive performances over the last nine games and the amount of times you see Wallace and Pitta get locked down because they ran weak routes or didn't make an attempt to uncover is ridiculous.

Pitta had a bad habit of cutting routes just short of the LBs allowing them to sit back and drive on the ball instead of him pushing his route into the defenders, making them commit than snapping off his route. The two biggest areas this showed up was 3rd downs and redone. This offense needs a stretch TE and that's why they attacked Watson so hard in FA. 

Wallace doesn't fit as a top target imo. You can't rely on him to consistently keep the offense moving but the Ravens were forced to do that because of SSS injuries and Perriman not really developing like they wanted. 

I think what is needed is a savvy route runner like a Pierre Garcon or a big bodied WR who can out muscle defenders for position but also still make plays down field when called. This will be Perriman in the near future, but I think Kenny Britt is a nice option to take some of the pressure off of him. 

Not sure if the Ravens currently have that savvy stretch TE needed, but Waller and Williams will be given the shot to prove they are the guys. 

I get what you're saying, and that makes sense. Kinda makes me wish, too, that Kamar was used more. He wasn't the quickest off the line, but he generally had a good release and good route running, as well as the ability to fight for the ball. I like the Kenny Britt idea.

What I really liked about Kamar -- that is also crucial in a WCO -- is his ability to get YAC. If you ask me, that's where we struggled a lot. Horizontal offenses can be explosive but only when you're getting YACs. 

27 minutes ago, allblackraven said:

I won't get into Castillo's core O line coaching, since I have no idea how it's done and how good or bad he is but it doesn't make much sense that he can't at least coach players up to play in his scheme. Harbaugh is giving him a lot of latitude with the Ravens run game. He was our official Running Game Coordinator in 2013, we all know how that went, then Kubiak showed he can do it with pretty much the same O line, now that we're back to Castillo we suck again.

Replacing OL assistant coach and conditioning coach isn't bound to deliver changes and improvement this team needs. Harbaugh has been given one year too many and that year will cost the organisation.

It may. We have struggled with conditioning if you ask me, especially on the dline. Changing asst. ol probably won't change much, and it sounds like a scapegoat, but let's see.

49 minutes ago, Grapple Raven said:

The Raven, I understand your point of view.  In my original post I even stated that Castillo maybe great with fundamentals and technique, that helps make great players excel, but with those stats it would seem reasonable to conclude that since he has been in charge our run game has declined and hasn't been up to the Ravens' standard.  I would in fact say that in all the years Castillo has been here he probably had more talent to work with than Kubiak/D.....

I'll just say that it says a lot that we let Kubiak do whatever he wanted with the staff, and he chose not to fire Castillo. 

10 hours ago, Ravensfan23 said:

I'm hearing this a lot and I've even said it too. I think it was after the Pats game I said I didn't think Marty knew how to use the talent on this offense. But after really breaking the offense down, I don't think that's the case. Let's be honest, the offensive staff has gotten away with some mediocre talent for years now. Although the Ravens have tried to improve the talent I think this team has just been snake bitten by injuries far too much over the last few years.

Also some guys just don't fit what this offense is designed for. Neither Wallace nor Pitta fit this offense imo and SSS clearly lost a step last year, with is totally understandable. So that's 3 of your top target that really couldn't win early in their routes and that led to checkdowns. If the Ravens are committed to the WCO they have to fully commit and get players that can excel. Now I do think there is a role for Wallace here, but it should be nothing more than a 3rd or 4th option that can make plays down field. The Ravens desperately need Perriman to develop into a guy who can win at every level, cause the offense won't be successful without it. 

The vertical passing game just isn't a big part of the WCO. So myself and many others who wanted to see that this year were upset but the reality is, the deep passing game has to be set up by those 7-12 yard routes being successful and the Ravens weren't good at it. So safeties could just sit back in deep zone and really take the deep ball away. This team needs guys who can win early and stay healthy. Or if they aren't great route runners, they need to have that big body presence to get between the defender and the ball.   

Trying to learn here. Why aren't they good fits, and what should we look for?

10 hours ago, Grapple Raven said:

Take it from John Harbaugh who addressed this in the 2013 State of the Ravens address. This was directly from the transcript of the 2013 State of the Ravens presser, and I don't think Harbaugh could have made it any clearer:

Question:

"John, you kind of mentioned last week how we are the conduit for the fans. There has been no greater name since the end of the season than Juan Castillo. Would you be willing to shed some light on what exactly he did this year, how his job was different than Andy Moeller's, and if you will come back next year with the same structure of what most people perceive to be two offensive line coaches – the same structure of him as run game coordinator and Andy Moeller?" (Steve Davis)

Response:

(JOHN HARBAUGH) "That's a good question, thanks. I can understand why Juan [Castillo] is a lightning rod right now because of the way that was set up and structured. Then, we go into the season, and we have our worst year ever running the ball, and he's got that [run game coordinator] title. So, that's on me. When we hired Juan, and we added Juan and had a chance to add Juan last year, the idea was to add another great coach into our mix. Juan functioned as the lead offensive line coach last year; that was his job. The title was a way to have three great offensive line coaches in our mix right there. Andy [Moeller] had a big contribution last year, was a little bit different than he had the year before. It wasn't the same as he had when he was with John Matsko. So, we had three guys working together, and I thought it was going to be a really good mix. And, I thought those guys did a really good job of coaching together. We didn't get the result we wanted to get. But, Juan was the offensive line coach. And the titles going forward – and that's one of the things that Ozzie and I talked a lot about, and I talked a lot with Juan about this and talked with Andy about this – Juan's title is going to be the ‘offensive line coach.' That's the way he worked last year; he worked as an offensive line coach. The offensive line coach works the run schemes and the pass protection schemes. He is pretty much out front and leads on that, but the offensive coordinator is in charge of the offense. He organizes the offense and decides exactly how we're going to do the details of that. Then, I'm on top of that, and I make all the final decisions as far as what direction we go and how we do it. So, it really didn't function any differently last year than it had the year before or the four years before that, and that's the way it worked. Going forward, our plan right now is to improve, is to get better. There are a lot of things that we didn't do well as a coaching staff, and we look at ourselves first. We've got to do a better job of putting our players in a position to make plays – offense, defense and special teams. If we find a way to score another couple touchdowns in the red zone, we're in the playoffs. If we find a way to eliminate a couple turnovers, we're in the playoffs. If we find a way to get a stop in a critical situation at the end of a game – even right to the Cincinnati game – if we do just a little bit more of that, we're in the playoffs. But, that's the fine line of the National Football League. That's what makes the league so great – what we're talking about. That is why it's so exciting and so competitive. But, we've got to find a way as a coaching staff to get the very most out of the players that we have, and that's what I'm working on right now, along with Ozzie and Steve and Dick and our coaching staff. Let's set this thing up as well as we possibly can with our staff, working together, utilizing everybody's strengths, balancing our weaknesses with a lot of great coaches, and building schemes that are going to make us the best we can be next year. And that's what we're going to try to do. So, Juan will be the offensive line coach next year. The rest of it is a little bit in flux right now. We're two weeks earlier to this probably – two, three, four weeks even – than we have been in the past. We've been coaching football games at this point in time. So, as all this NFL coaching drama goes on, some of our guys are involved in that, and we'll just have to see how it shakes out. But, we're going to build a great coaching staff again this year."

 

Well, I'll own that.

But... question... If Castillo was really the one with universal say over schemes, why has our blocking scheme changed so much, while he remains the constant? Hmm.

Regardless of that point, I'm not blaming Castillo when we've had such terrible players on the line. He turned a rookie into a top five left tackle and made Alex Lewis good enough to hold his own at LT. He turned Ryan Jensen from a small school nobody to one of the best run blockers on the team. Rick Wagner has also developed into a top three right tackle. KO went from RT, to LG, to LT under Castillo and then got paid and is a top five overall lineman.

When you look at the facts, it doesn't make logical sense to blame Castillo.

4 minutes ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

I personally think that ms what the anti pees people don't get. "We've invested a lot of picks into the defense. They haven't developed and it's his fault." Ever consider that Elam, Brown, Brooks, Smith(ZDS) , etc, just flat out sucked? Ozzie has also neglected the secondary, hasnt hit on a pass rusher(Judon is a good start but I think he's more of a #2. IMO he's got a future as a starter in the league). That's why I can't put 100% of the blame on Pees. Fourth quarter collapses, especially the Pittsburgh one, can be attributed to the lack of pass rush. 

 

Im not saying fire Ozzie, past three drafts have been better, but he was off his game for awhile. He bears the most blame for the mess we are in. I agree with @rmw10, be happy that the 2016 draft was great, cause it saved his butt

What sucks is that during his three or four year skid, we failed to retain every player that DID turn out.

Just now, redrum52 said:

Gotta blame someone...

And I guess concluding that the players suck just isn't good enough for some people.

Or worse, concluding that Ozzie didn't do enough for the oline until it was too little and too late.

23 hours ago, Grapple Raven said:

As for changes to the coaching staff, I may be in the minority here but:

The rushing stats since Castillo was brought in in his first full season in 2013-2014:

2013-0214:  30th in rushing yards, 30th in rushing yards per game, 32nd in rushing yards per attempt.

2015-2016:  26th in rushing yards and 26th in rushing yards per game, 24th in rushing yards per attempt.

2016-2017:  28th in rushing yards, 28th in rushing yards per game, 21st in rushing yards per attempt.

 

The one outlier was 2014-2015 when Kubiak was here with Dennison helping installing Kubiak's strategies with the offensive line:

2014-2015:  8th in rushing yards, 8th in rushing yards per game, 7th in rushing yards per attempt.

 

You have to ask the question is this why we aren't running the ball more?  Because we can't run it with any success?  We had lesser backs than probably what Castillo had in all those years, especially since Kubiak's year was without Ray Rice and he did much better.   What is Harbs seeing in those stats or is he blinded by loyalty?  Castillo might can coach fundamentals and technique, but he has no business being in charge of a run game, offensive line or whatever the hell title Harbs gives him to justify his job.  The common denominator in the stats above is Castillo.  This is beyond ridiculous.

 

For the millionth time, Castillo is not responsible for the run scheme. He is solely responsible for technique. Harbaugh has even said that. He hasn't had that "run game coordinator" title since 2013.

Oh, and in 2013 he had an oline with AQ Shipley, Giino Gradkowski, and Mike Oher. Two of those guys aren't in the league anymore.

In 2015 and 2016, he's dealt with a Zuttah that regressed terribly, constant injuries, and a revolving door at left guard.

If you want to blame someone for poor oline play, blame Ozzie for not addressing it.

10 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

Stop feeding this troll.

okay yeah that's a good idea

21 minutes ago, Steve0x said:

We already won with all defense. The 2000 Ravens. Now let see we can win with all offense 

Do you have a thought process or do you spout out spontaneous thoughts?

My head hurts.

Just now, Steve0x said:

Thats how you win NFL games. You try to score 40-55 points a game. I remember Colts put 53 points up the board vs Bills at Memorial Stadium. I was at that game 

Colts 58, Bills 20. Dec. 12, 1976. Baltimore’s Memorial Stadium. The most points allowed in Bills history and the worst run-for-the-bus finale in team history.

 

Source http://buffalonews.com/2013/08/20/bills-20-worst-defeats/

 

Nobody cares. Want to add something substantial?

15 hours ago, EdTheMythicalOne said:

He's not even a good #3 in a legit lineup of receivers and if he was this good why was he always low man on the totem pole no matter where he was before coming to the Ravens? He's not a playmaker. He doesn't have great speed. He doesn't run great routes. He doesn't have great hands. Because of his sheer size alone he might win some high pass battles, but the guy doesn't fight for the ball.

Aiken doesnt fight for the ball? You really just started watching this year, didnt you?

5 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

What's the basis for saying that we don't run a zone blocking scheme again?

He had to go out of his way to be so oblivious to the fact that we do in fact run a zone scheme. That's not his first time thinking we don't run one.

Anyway, the idea that you have to pick either a good defense or a good offense is archaic and overly simplistic. I realize it's probably easier to live in a world where things fit nicely into square boxes, where we can say "this is a defensive team that is bad at offense" and vice versa, but, well, that's just simple-minded.

What we should focus on building AND retaining is a dominant offensive line and a dominant defensive line with a couple playmakers in the secondary. To win on defense, you need sacks and you need picks. You don't get stops anymore. You get turnovers. So focus on that.

On offense, running the ball is crucial. It controls the clock, it converts third downs, and yes, it literally changes the coverage and formation a defense runs against you. Get a good oline and get some role players (that can catch) at receiver. And, a good line keeps the QB clean.

I can understand why we're sticking with Marty, but I don't support it.

I get that maybe we want to give him a chance with his own system and an improved roster, but... I just didn't have any faith in his play calling 

7 hours ago, Steve0x said:

Thats why im suggesting Ray Lewis becomes the defensive cord. Players will listen to him. Remember when ex steeler Mean Joe Greene retired? He became Steelers  defensive cord and their winning tradition kept going. So why not Ray Lewis comes back and make the Ravens defense return its form. 

False. He went back as a DL coach six years after he retired as a player. Two of the four years he was there as a coach, they had losing seasons. Their best season with Greene as DL coach was 1989 when they finished 2nd in the division at 9-7, won a wildcard spot, and lost in the divisional round.

20 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

In good news, Zrebiec seems to believe Flacco's and Pitta's comments were merely not to throw Marty under the bus.  Let's hope...

What gives me concern is that those comments are on the team's website in front page story. That could very well be the PR machine doing damage control before the news is confirmed that Marty is here to stay for a year. It's all about controlling the narrative. If the team says "Marty's here to stay. We need continuity," it's a good look. Especially with two big names like Joe and Pitta.

As a reporter myself, I think the PR folks are getting ahead of the story. PR messaging frequently reflects internal discussions and goals.

29 minutes ago, K-Dog said:

Reading the article on the front page I draw the exact opposite conclusion for Juice. 

I mean, that's what the spin machine would have us believe about a fan favorite.

5 hours ago, Davesta said:

I hope pitta is gone and we start the maxx era.. Already a better blocker by miles.

All you have to do to beat Pitta at run blocking is try. I don't think he cares at all about blocking.