The Raven

On 1/23/2017 at 1:35 AM, AnthonyGames said:

Pay Ray Lewis to coach him all offseason, and watch tape of every game Luke Keuchly has played. Done. 

6 hours ago, AnthonyGames said:

That's a great idea!

Incredible insight. How has nobody thought of this before?!

10 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

and thats very unfortunate imo. he needs to be outside.

Can you sell me on him? Not disputing you, I just want to hear the other point of view, because I just can't see it.

What excites me about next year is that the team's nucleus -- Joe, Harbs, and Ozzie -- are all under fire.

In a regime that hates change and constantly looks into the past for solutions in the future, Harbaugh and Ozzie are going to have to do some soul searching to find out what we will do differently to remain competitive.

Ozzie's blueprint has failed us in recent years. He still wants to build around massive defensive tackles and the LB position -- roles that are increasingly insignificant. He seems to have caught on, opting to draft athletic freaks like Willie Henry, Kamalei Correa, and Bronson Kaufusi, but those guys may not pan out. Regardless of that, I think Ozzie knows he's under fire, and he's making changes in his approach.

What I think is problematic is that our personnel department, coordinators, and head coaches never seem to be on the same page. We're constantly drafting guys that don't fit what we're trying to do, and we're constantly using schemes that don't fit the guys we have. I'm not sure who needs to adjust -- personnel or coaches -- but to remain competitive, someone has to. I look forward to seeing Harbaugh under fire, to see how the team's approach changes this year. Will we commit to an identity? Under fire, Harbaugh may find it, and I suspect he'll run back to the power running game and defense that made us one of the best franchises from 08-14. Hopefully, we get the personnel that match the schemes.

And Joe, well, I love Joe under fire. He plays his best ball under fire. He has to know that, if 2017 is a bust, we'll be drafting a QB in the top three rounds of the 2018 draft, and letting Joe go when his contract expires.  

What excites me is that we have some continuity schematically, but some changes at the position coach level. As much as I love Juan Castillo has a teacher of the game, I'm looking forward to seeing an offensive line under someone else's leadership. I don't think he was the problem per se, but the offensive line is getting a fresh look this year, having lost the OL coach and the asst. OL coach. An all new OL coaching staff could bring welcome changes.

1 hour ago, allblackraven said:

I really haven't seen much of anything promising with him, inside or out. For all the talk about the versatility, I would have expected tone more from 2nd rounder.

I also expected more. I'm just of the belief he looked better inside than out.

1 hour ago, rmw10 said:

I think his time there pretty much is already over, although they may explore moving him back inside now.  Even in preseason, he got very little play on the inside.  Most of his time on the field this season was spent on the outside.  I think he ended up being merely an emergency option inside.

He may have spent more time outside, but he got embarrassed there. The only time he ever looked remotely NFL-capable was on the inside.

Just now, allblackraven said:

I sure hope Correa experiment on the inside is over. Plenty of solid UFAs to choose from and try to bring one in. I wanted Zach Brown last year, he is available again:

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/inside-linebacker/

Uh, why do you hope Correa's time on the inside is over? He's shown infinitely more promise as an NFL ILB than as an NFL OLB.

It's a bummer. Zach Orr became one of my favorites this year.

Unheralded, underrated, and unknown, he still came in to grind and make plays every game. He played with fire and intensity, and I'm going to miss that. Not only that, but he became one of our smarter defenders, too. He could have been a legitimate leader going forward. 

Wishing him the best in "retirement." I'm sure he'll find something worthwhile to do in retirement. He doesn't strike me as the kind of player that make headlines for the wrong reasons in retirement.

I would wager it's be bad news. Friday's are always the best days for a "news dump," especially on a Friday like today with the inauguration going on.

And, as much as people hate him, Mike Preston has probably been right more than he's been wrong. He's covered the Ravens since 96. You better believe he knows every person in that building and has his finger on the pulse. 

9 hours ago, allblackraven said:

Orr perhaps doesn't cost too much to retain? 

We'll see. I have a feeling he might get more than we're expecting, especially after the year he had.

If we re-sign Orr, it makes me think what Mosley's long term future is. I don't think it's that common these days to have more than one ILB type locked up with good money. 

1 hour ago, Ravensfan23 said:

Not sure exactly what type of system he'll install and I really don't care. All long as he can continue to develop Stanley and Lewis, while getting the most out of whomever the Center is. I think both Yanda and Wagner(i believe he stays) will speak for themselves. I won't act like I now enough about the guy to say what he'll do. But I did enjoying listening to his breakdown as a oline coach for the Bills. link

I feel like it's interesting to think about. Could help project future moves and how the line looks next year. If he's as married to the zone as some think, I think Wagner may end up getting re-signed. If it's a more versatile approach, or with more on the power side, I doubt Wagner (or Zuttah) stays. Hell, if he's a zone guy through and through, we may be keeping Zuttah. 

One thing I like is that it looks like, at least in Buffalo, Joe preferred the wide zone, which is the only zone worth using in my book.

4 minutes ago, ellicottraven said:

Thanks for the link. He does sound pretty good breaking down film. But, out of curiosity the cut blocking to create a passing lane for the QB in that quick throw where both the LG and LT cut block their assignments is still legal right?

It is legal so long as now other offensive player is engaged with the defender at the time of the cut.

I have strong opinions about cut blocks on pass plays. They're risky. If you miss, or if the defender evades it, your QB is going to eat turf. You better make sure that DL goes down if you try and cut. 

8 minutes ago, jazz1988 said:

 

That's not what I'm getting  when reading these pieces about him link and link. I will say expect versatility with the blocking scheme but zone blocking is not going away at all . I never watched DJ Fluker play before but he has similar height and weight as K.O so it helped me realize not all bigger guards aren't considered a good fit in the zone blocking scheme.

Note that these pieces were written at the time of the hire, and not during the man's actual tenure as offensive line coach. If you actually look at the personnel and watch the play, you'll see it wasn't really zone heavy.

For example, DJ Fluker is the antithesis of the zone blocking prototype, as is Orlando Franklin, one of their guards. 

I don't think zone will go away but I think we'll see a preference towards not zone. Of course, that's just an inference from their personnel choices and from the limited times I've watched the Chargers in recent years. Who knows what Marty, Harbs, and this guy will want to do? It wouldn't be the first time scheme didn't match up with personnel.

Chan Gailey, who he worked under in Buffalo, has always been a zone/spread guy, so that may be why they ran zone while he was with the Bills.

3 minutes ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

If I recall correctly Fluker isn't very good either. 

Not sure what to think tbh. 

He was a very promising prospect but is just too slow for the NFL.

Joe D'ALessandris, formerly of the San Diego Charges, has been hired for the position.

I didn't follow the Chargers closely from 2013-2015, while he was there, but I believe they've always run a man/gap scheme.

One recent pick, DJ Fluker from Alabama, is a 6'5 340 pound behemoth who is about as nimble as an oak tree. This may reflect what this guy looks for in an olineman. This is not to say he prefers huge, plodding mammoths, but I think it shows a preference for brute strength over athleticism. 

15 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I think the offensive line coach from Wisconsin would also be a really solid choice.

I just looked into that. There's been a lot of turnover in that position, I believe. Right now, I think their OC Joe Rudolph serves as the acting OL coach. The OL coach who started 2016 was fired after two games. Bob Bostad was there 06-11 but is now at a no name school after bouncing around a bit in the early 2010s.

In recent years, we've had a trend of going to the college ranks to fill position coach vacancies. I'd like to see us find someone in the Big 10 or SEC with a record of sending college guys to the NFL. Someone from Iowa or Alabama, maybe. Alabama has sent a bunch of guys to the pro's, though they haven't always panned out (probably because they tend to be slower guys).

Notre Dame's offensive line coach Harry Hiestand may be a guy to watch. He coached up our own Ronnie Stanley and Dallas's Zack Martin, both of whom are among the top young linemen in the NFL. Nick Martin, Zack's younger brother, was a second round pick by the Eagles in 2016.

The problem with Lewis is that he was asked, as a 6'6 mammoth who I don't believe had interior experience, to become a dancing bear in a zone scheme that requires phone booth quickness.

There's a reason you don't see a lot of 6'6 guards, especially in teams with zone schemes. They tend to lack pad level, flexibility, and quickness, three essential traits of zone blocking guards. I would bet that most zone blocking guards are in the 6'2 - 6'4, 310 pound range, as opposed to the 6'6 330 that Lewis is.

He'd be fine in other schemes where he doesn't have to worry about simultaneously sealing and driving defenders. If you let him just attack the defender across from him instead of making him dance with the defender, he'd be able to focus more on that pad level and get drive.

16 hours ago, rmw10 said:

Wagner is an interesting case.  He was really good in 2014, but went down with the dreaded lisfranc injury at the end of the season.  We've seen countless players who really struggle in their next year back from that awful injury, so I'd think 2015 had a lot more to do with his recovery than anything else.  He started 2016 a little questionable, but really rounded into 2014 form as the season went on.

If it was up to me, Wagner would be the priority re-signing over Brandon Williams.  However, I think the team may be looking in a different direction.  During our season ending press conference, it was said that we want to get bigger and stronger on the OL.  Neither of those really describe Wagner.  He's not supremely athletic, but has good feet and relies on his technique.  I prefer my OL that was personally, but it sounds like the team may be looking for something different.

I'd rather have the power guys. Technique doesn't (always) get you that extra yard on 3rd and 1. When it comes down to it, offensive line comes down to being able to plant somebody into the turf. Wagner has never been that type. Always the type that could just wall off and seal. 

I've always liked the idea of getting maulers and working on their technique -- like Ryan Jensen. There are probably better examples, since we all know Jensen is far from perfect, but Jensen is the kind of prospect I like. A strong mauler with underrated athleticism. Hell, Marshall Yanda is another example of a guy like that. Remember he was a third round pick.

It's difficult to find maulers with footwork, but as long as they aren't as fat as Bryant McKinnie, they can usually figure it out with good coaching. Different protection sets can also help with that. 

Just now, usmccharles said:

Its a package deal. 

Not really at all.

1 hour ago, usmccharles said:

Also, comparing Joe to possibly the greatest QB in NFL history is just foolish.  That would be like comparing Mike Conley to Michael Jordan because they make the same amount of money

And @ellicottraven 

I'm comparing longevity and durability, not talent. Uh duh. Joe is a big guy and QB's play for a while.

12 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

Yep, exactly.  There's a lot to like with Waller as he goes through this transition.  I thought year 1 was a pretty large success in that regard.

I like he and Maxx as the top two tight ends going forward. Whether that means cutting Pitta, I don't know, but I am fairly certain that Gillmore and Boyle are not long term solutions.

1 hour ago, trevorsteadman said:

Flacco doesn't have much of his prime left. The Ravens need to surround him with more talent or they wasted a good chunk of time to get another super bowl ring under their belt.

Brady is still in his prime, at what, 38? Not buying the argument that Flacco doesn't have much of prime left. QBs can play nearly forever.

It would be fair to say he might get dumped at end of contract, but I don't get the age thing.

22 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

Waller's blocking was actually one of his strong points coming out of that Georgia Tech offense than ran the ball 9348 times a game.  That's why many people actually had him as a TE coming out of that draft.  He at least has some concepts of how to block.  It's teaching how how to block inline that will be the work in progress.  That's where I think Roman could actually help quite a bit.  He's got some of the "basics" down already though.

Yes, I would agree. I think he also needs some more bulk and work on pad level to be effective at in line blocking. I have no doubt he has the basics down. I think it's a matter of gaining and using functional strength to drive ends off the line.

20 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Still issues with finishing. 

I agree with this assessment. Gillmore is vastly overrated as a blocker, whether due to health or whatever. It's actually hard to watch him try to seal the backside on weak side runs. It doesn't even look like he's trying if the run is the other way.

Boyle is our best blocker among the tight ends. Maxx is good but doesn't always mow guys down. I do like his ability to seal and wall off. Waller, unexpectedly, is a little more than adequate as a blocker. He showed good movement on scoop blocks and second level blocks. Still a ways to go when it comes to actually driving a guy, but pretty great stuff from a former wide out.

20 minutes ago, Virginia 55 said:

Brandon williams stats are on par with last season. I dont see any issues in his game. He's been healthy and he's a model Raven. You talk about being pushed into the linebackers?  

 

That's what happens to a good defense when the offense is so inept.  

 

Our defense is priority for me.  Our offense will never strike fear in the hearts of any defense unless we develop a stellar running game (which is likely) because throwing the ball is not our strong suit. 

 

 

Debating Flacco should be almost automatic at this point.  He doesn't bring the IT factor to the game and he doesn't deserve to get paid like he does. At this point i could care less how we offload him, just get him outta here.

Brandon Williams was routinely getting pushed back and/or losing control of his gap in the last four weeks of the season. Sure, his tackles were on par with last season. A lot more were just further downfield.

That's a fool's mindset. You dislike Joe so you just want to focus on defense? That's like buying food without the pots and pans to cook it in. You need both sides.

You still haven't answered the question. Can you comprehend it? I'm asking how we can deal with the massive cap hit we're faced with if we were to cut or trade him. Do you understand how the cap works?