The Raven

47 minutes ago, jazz1988 said:

I personally have  no problem with the way Juice been used so far. I can't really remember alot of plays he was involved in that was useless but of course he could be use more creatively. The last time I remember Juice being used on a flat route last year at the fullback position was against The Patriot  which he had a 40 yard gain after breaking some tackles

Tell me again how many flats turned into 40 yard gains. 

I have a big problem with how he's used because he's being under utilized. We aren't getting the most of our guys. That's a problem. Juice could probably be used as a number two TE on some teams and we're using him as a traditional fullback and flat route specialist. 

We're limiting our own ability by not thinking more broadly about how we can use our players. Juice would bring a whole new element to the offense. With Kenneth Dixon and Juice, we have the capability to to give a defense a wide variety different looks. Think about it. We could come out in your standard I formation, or we could even go empty. Not a lot of teams have the capability to run an empty set with their base personnel. We could put either in the slot.

Defenses send out their personnel based on the offense's personnel. If we have a 21 personnel set out there, the defense sounds out its base -- a standard seven man front. But the thing is that Dixon and Juice are capable receiving threats. Flex Juice to the slot or as an offline TE. Go empty. Linebackers suck in space. Take advantage of that. Hell, line up in I, motion Juice out to the slot, and then run it to throw the defense off guard. Run a play action off of that later. You could run a hell of a crack play with Juice in the slot.

There's so much we could do with that personnel group, and we're shooting ourselves in the foot by not doing it.

Hate to make this comparison but Juice is similar in build and versatility to Aaron Hernandez. Both are versatile guys that are a little short to be traditional tight ends but could fill other roles. Sometimes, Hernandez faced safeties in coverage because he'd torch backers. If defenses end up respecting Juice as a receiving threat, they may send out a safety to cover him instead of a backer. Then you still have base personnel out there against a nickel set, which sets you up nicely for a run play. That's a lineman's dream, running power against a nickel set while in base. 

I may be overselling Juice's ability, but the point is that we aren't even trying to use him in different roles. That's stupid.

8 hours ago, jazz1988 said:

Webb was ranked the 14th best safety last year and can play free safety, strong safety, nickel corner and probably outside corner as well . His versatility and his ability to multitask is what gave Eric Weddle the freedom to roam around the field and having two safeties that aren't limited helps with keeping the secondary versatile in my opinion.

 

 Marty M hasn't been a stranger at all with using fullbacks in the passing game so i'm not entirely sure about this .

The issue isn't about using the fullback position. We know from Juice's 37 catches in 2016 that Marty uses the fullback position in the passing game, but that's not the issue.

The issue is using Juice -- the player, not the position -- up to his individual potential. Juice got plenty of catches as a fullback under Marty. That's no secret. But how many were botched screen plays, useless flats, or ball routes? Just about all of them. He's capable of doing more. He's capable, in my opinion, of having a bigger impact than Pitta. His ability to break tackles and get YACs far exceeds Pitta and this stage in their careers. 

4 hours ago, usmccharles said:

I think we are not using Juice to his full abilities.  Id like to see him get around 10 touches a game, seeing him in the slot would be interesting.  Seems like any time he touches the ball he makes something out of nothing. 

This is where I'm at. And honestly, I'm not sure Juice is worth the money unless we significantly expand his role. I want to see him used as the weapon he is.

I still have the feeling that the Patriots or maybe the Packers outbid us to use him as the down the seams threat he can be. It pisses me off that this guy lit up the seams in college and we don't even give him looks there. I'm not saying he'd be as dominant in the seams now as he was in college but there's potential there. He's just a good match up. He can outrun backers and bowl over DBs. Give him a chance on something other than a flat is what I'm saying.

9 hours ago, jazz1988 said:

I don't understand why Kamar Aiken is somewhat unappreciated . The guy had 900 receiving yards  and 5 touchdowns in 2015 and caught 60 percent of his passes. He can play outside as well as inside and has shown to be dependable in the past. He had a down year last year and I'm not surprised by that after seeing him being pushed to play on special teams and not getting the chances on offense like he would have expected after his 2015 season..I have seen Ravens fans talk about Pierre Garcon and Robert Woods but I think Kamar Aiken is a similar player as them  and may even be cheaper..

Maybe he's cheaper because he's not as good. As far as I'm concerned, I'd like to improve the WR position. Legitimately improve it. You don't do that by holding on to guys.

And as rmw already said, Kamar is packing his bags to go elsewhere.

On 2/17/2017 at 1:04 PM, Ravensfan23 said:

Yea i'd have no issue with re-signing Aiken and I've even said that Aiken made a believer out of me when the Ravens had to rely on him in 2015, I don't get the notion that a guys production should be minimized because he's he teams only option. That would make things tougher for him I'd think. True is, every offense force feeds their best players whomever that my be. I just get the feeling the Ravens are more than willing to allow Aiken to walk if he can get a nice deal somewhere. 

I certainly agree that Britt is more talented and has more potential than Aiken, but that should be expected of a former 1st round pick. I just see Aiken as a nice possession WR and that'd be great if the Ravens already had an established play maker on the roster. But they don't yet and they need whomever they bring in to be both a chain mover and play maker. 

The problem is that Aiken probably has an issue with re-signing. I highly doubt he sticks around.

If I could afford those tickets I'd definitely be there! Metallica and Volbeat at the same gig? Yes please.

1 hour ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Juice can carry the ball. Looked great doing it against the Steelers. Small sample size, but again, small sample size.. so you certainly cant write off his ability to carry, since we havent seen him do it much.

Great lead blocker, good pass protector. Good out of the back field, can line up in the slot. And probably would be successful carrying the ball. Also ST leader and contributor.

Pretty all-around FB imo. Wont cost too much to keep. Definitely worth while to me.

Yeah Idk if he's a great lead blocker by any stretch but his other abilities make him worth holding on to. Just wish we'd actually make better use of those skills. Why not send him downfield? Why are all his catches on flats and check downs? Use him on some routes, dammit. 

4 minutes ago, Ravensfan23 said:

That's not surprising. The Ravens aren't gonna go above market value and Wagner's people are smart to hit the market and see how competitive the Ravens offer really is. 

I think Wagner, Juice and Williams all re-sign. 

Whooooaaaaaa that's bold. You think we can manage it?

19 minutes ago, B-more Ravor said:

Jason La Canfora ‏@JasonLaCanfora 46m46 minutes ago

Ravens made an early attempt to get RT Ricky Wagner re-signed. Initial offer was rebuffed. He and Brandon Williams two FAs they want to keep

Kinda surprising. I wonder what the numbers were. I also wonder if La Canfora has his crap together this time. He was way wrong on the Zach Orr news. Maybe earlier reports were smokescreens, and Wagner was always the top priority. Who knows? 

Hoping we do keep Wagner. Stability on the line would be nice for a change. Imagine if we had four or five returning starters on the line. When's the last time we did that?

28 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

RG Kevin Zeitler is not expected to stay in Cinci

The Cincinnati Enquirer's Paul Dehner "continue(s) to feel confident" the Bengals will not retain free agent RG Kevin Zeitler.

Based on what he's heard, Dehner expects the Bengals to prioritize re-signing free agent LT/LG Andrew Whitworth and let Zeitler walk. It's a curious approach -- to be kind -- considering Whitworth is in steep decline at age 35 while 27-year-old (in March) Zeitler is one of the best young guards in football. Dehner believes there's only a "30 percent chance" Zeitler returns to Cincinnati. Zeitler is Rotoworld's No. 1-rated free agent interior offensive lineman.

Source: Cincinnati Enquirer

God I wish we could afford him. I'd let Williams and Wagner go without hesitation to have him.

1 hour ago, Tank 92 said:

Had to correct this bit of misinformation. Washington. D.C. certainly is a part of the US.    lol.   It was formed as a federal district that falls underneath the jurisdiction of Congress. And to state the obvious, every senator spends a large portion of their time living in Washington.  The name Senators made perfect sense. 

Thanks. I cringed pretty hard when I read that post. 

On 1/31/2017 at 2:04 AM, Steve0x said:

If Ray goes to Mr Biscotti and tells him..Well sir,,i tried to improve the defense but Harbaugh told me no. And Mr Biscotto will say...John.. Um... YOURE FIRED! 

Don't do drugs, kids.

My thoughts are that he's a 28 year old guy who wasn't good enough for the NFL before and is now going to be a camp body and get cut before returning to the CFL. His chances at making the roster are slim.

He kinda reminds me of the little league kids who played down because of size limitations at the next age group but dominated because they just had more experience and talent. He dominated D2, went undrafted, got cut by the Chiefs, and then he did well in the CFL. He was never good enough -- I would guess because of size/speed limitations -- to be at the top level in his age level.

On 1/23/2017 at 9:40 PM, -Truth- said:

For what it's worth, I've watched two of our last few games, and I felt that Zuttah wasn't bad in the general sense. He mostly held his own, no pun intended, in the Eagles game against Fletcher Cox and Bennie Logan for one. I've been pretty critical of several of Zuttah due to the penalties he's had considering that they were somewhat game-changing at times. The hold against Pittsburgh and the unnecessary roughness against Dallas still stand out as both avoidable and momentum-killing. That being said, while his 6 penalties were among the top among centers, when charting the calls, I don't know that I came away believing that all of the holding calls were completely deserved. His first two came in week 4 against Oakland, and they were a little questionable (Link1, Link2). No penalties until the week 11 Dallas game where he imploded with three. The unnecessary roughness one was utterly boneheaded (Link), made even worse by the fact that he did a solid job on Sean Lee, stopped and then needlessly reengaged. I can understand the one prior to some degree considering that final tug as David Irving is throwing his arms up (Link), though the very first penalty on the screen pass that came prior was of the ticky-tack variety (Link). His next and final penalty was a crucial one against Pittsburgh in week 16. I broke that play down a few weeks ago. Truth be told, while he's unspectacular, I feel like Zuttah isn't a bad center. The Pro-Bowl nod might give our front office pause, and I like most wondered of whether he'd be a goner, which could certainly still happen. But all-in-all, I don't know that I'd be outraged if he's still around next season.

Zuttah spent more time in our backfield than an offensive lineman should.

I'll agree that he's a solid pass protector -- aside from the many times he simply forgot to pick up a blitzing linebacker -- but it's his horrendous run blocking that remains to be the issue, and that's what his struggle comes down to. Sure, he held his own sometimes, but holding your own simply isn't good enough. When you watch Zuttah and then watch other centers, it becomes apparent that "holding your own" is actually below average. A stalemate is a loss for the offensive lineman.

If we keep Zuttah, we need to run the wide zone a little bit more and use more double teams to help him out. I feel like every time he had a one on one assignment on tight zone, he lost.

4 hours ago, PurpleCity5 said:

It is confusing that they would try to get more physical and bring in more maulers on the line, yet hire someone with a ZBS background. If you're looking to run a ZBS, then you would want guys who are lighter and can easily get to the 2nd level. I would say that Wagner fits that greatly, as does Stanley and to an extent Alex Lewis, especially Zuttah who doesn't play with a lot of strength. I think that's why you see a lot of physical players fail in a ZBS system, players who can't get to the 2nd level on their blocks are not a fit for that type of blocking, if the Ravens are committed to bringing in more bigger and physical players, then they're going to have to be far less committed in the ZBS, ultimately they might have to abandon it,

Marty ultimately gets to decide which scheme he wants to run, its his playbook so they probably mix it up a bit like Yanda said the Ravens have been doing. I don't think that the offensive line coach gets to decide that.

Well, I mean, if you look at the Patriots, you'll see a team that runs a lot of zone with a line that doesn't fit the typical zone blocking stereotype. It can work.

The thing is that the zone we ran this year (tight zone) works really well with less mobile, but more physical linemen. It's the wide zone we ran under Kubiak that we'd have more difficulty with if we had more maulers.

Honestly, of the three zone plays (inside/tight, outside, and wide/stretch), the only one that's super dependent on mobility is the wide/stretch. The tight zone is an inside run and outside is a sort of off-tackle run. Both can work with mauler types if they blow up their assignment.

18 minutes ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

That means we should hire JO to be oline coach as well. Contribute massively to the run game.

 

Not only that but Ray would trade that bum Flacco away. He's just "a guy"

We'll finally get all those alpha male types back. We won't have a locker room full of yes men.

2 minutes ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

Make the ravens great again! Hire ray Lewis as HC AND GM, with Reed as a D.C. He won't be soft and will call man coverages unlike Pees and he will blitz a lot more!

Why not bring Jamal back as OC?  We'll finally get that smashmouth running game back! That's Ravens football! Run the ball and play defense!

Here we flipping go. I'm eagerly awaiting the swarm of crazies insisting we fire everyone to bring in Ray and Reed.

"Organized chaos is back," they'll say. "Ray will keep everyone straight. Can't wait to play smashmouth, Ravens football again."

32 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

I don't think they want to move Lewis to T.  They said they view him as a G going forward.  He might be the emergency option at T, but it seems like they want to commit to him and Stanley on the left side.

I see what the Ravens are saying, but it just doesn't make sense to me. Alex Lewis really struggled with run blocking on the inside. He's too damn tall to be a guard. If he's going to be a guard long term he needs to work on pad level and flexibility.

Also, I'm not sure how Castillo's departure impacts that. He has historically preferred mammoths on the line, which would make Lewis a fine fit a guard. But with this new guy in, he might have a different personnel preference. There just aren't a whole lot of 6'6 guards that are actually good.

1 hour ago, allblackraven said:

That's fine, I just couldn't decide how to feel seeing Miller and KC in the same sentence (and the same role)

For future reference, ability =/= role. There is an obvious difference between skill and skill set.

8 minutes ago, allblackraven said:

Is this more funny or sad?

Uh, neither? Just a valid use of a linebacker without the ability to be a full time MLB or a full time OLB. I mean I guess we could say it's sad since we expected him to be a full time outside guy but..

2 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

My thoughts exactly. 

Although im a little surprised theyarent even giving him a look at OLB...

We may still see him in a Von Miller role. Stand up backer in base and 3rd down rusher.

Makes sense to put him there. He got embarrassed on the outside but, in small doses, he showed the range, athleticism, and instincts to play ILB. 

1 hour ago, trevorsteadman said:

His pre-draft comparison was Clay Matthews and Clay has done well in the NFL. He has some power but I wouldn't say he has mindblowing power. He has a lot of work to do to live up to prove fans he was worth a 2nd round pick but he is a sophomore I am not too worried.

12 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

He's got "relative" power. He's strong for his size and a lot of that strength is more or less momentum because he's so explosive and plays like a missile. As far as functional strength goes he lacks it big time, it's much less than I thought he had

I very much agreed with the Clay comparison pre-draft, but Correa severely lacks the functional strength Clay has, as JoeyFlex5 points out here.

I worry that his frame is maxed out and that he will struggle to add and keep on bulk, a la Arthur Brown. Hopefully he can add some bulk.

3 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

He's just got a rare first step and I would love to see him get a chance to develop there because if he gets his hand game right and stop trying to bullrush guys(which he is totally incapable of) then he could be an exciting speed rusher.

Although I'll admit he may be better suited to play inside due to his size, it's a shame though, he's got some exciting tools that can't be coached. I guess if he never pans out as an edge rusher we are lucky enough that he could still be a real solid ILB and it works out that we really need one now.

I worry that he'll be a one trick pony on the outside. Guys who can do nothing but speed rush are easy to game plan for. It's pretty easy to stop. To be effective on the outside, you need to be able to do something at least resembling a bull rush, just to keep the tackle honest.