Ravenous_Ravens

Congratulations Levine. Well deserved. Keep stacking days.

Bold Prediction:

Best Defensive line 2017.
Top 5 Defense 2017.

I want Pitta gone too. We need to get rid of these old contracts one way or another. It's a case of diminishing returns but in Pitta's case we only saw some returns last year but the kind that really held us back on offense because of Joe's regression and Pitta's inability to gain yards after the catch.

Are you kidding, Pitta was a 3rd down machine and more. Granted to they need more plays where they are at least throwing to the first down line. On third downs especially..

Not too surprised Wagner found a big pay day. Elvis has left the building. He'll probably go to a team with tons of cap space or have to take a pay cut.

On a positive note: start piling up comp picks..

Don't see how he stays, we can't match other teams' cash at this point.

Other teams need to actually offer them a contract. If they don't or are on par with the Ravens offers, expect them to stick around.

williams needs to re-sign, the Ravens fit him and he fits the Ravens.
Make him an offer he cant refuse and get the deal done.
Then focus on a WR, March 9. That day, the Ravens will free up 22 million is cap space, which will puts them at about 27 mil total. Let Pitta, Watson and Dumervil go adds another 10 mil.
4 mil for Draft leaves 33 mil,
Sign B. Williams- NT (11 mil) B. Marshal- WR ( 4.6) L. Murray RB (5.2) and Vet CB (7 mil) then pay the raises as needed.(5.2)

What?! If BW goes, they have Michael Pierce. B Marshall while a nice thought, prevents other needed moves and is another rent a player type move, meaning his age is a risk for longevity and pricey contract. RB can be drafted for so much cheaper and more tread life left on the tires. CB.. do not even think about paying 7 mil for a vet CB. There are no good CB's available that are justified for 7 mil/year. Did you see the depth of the draft at CB this year. Again cheaper team friendly value is available in the draft.

IMHO, if say Wagner and BW move on, the only FA that might make sense, is Hightower. If this happened they would have the cap space to pursue him. But this depends on what the team thinks of the likes of KC stepping up for Z.Orr, or even Z Smith. Then there is the draft as well.

There is no need to sign any FA this year. There team is in good shape overall. Some players will move on, same as every year and every team, some will stay. They will bolster the roster with talent and fill in many of the glaring needs of the past few seasons. Also having you starting QB in good health and some of the veteran players such a Dumervil in good health only makes the team more dangerous.

Marshall would be a nice thought. At 33 and 6 mil/year that is just too steep to miss on and who knows how long he has left til the age starts catching up. I would much rather the Ravens allow their young WR to grow and play. Trial by fire. They will not develop if they are never given ample opportunity.

Next year figures to be a good year for comp picks, 2-3 potentially (two 3rd's & 4th)

Cannot say I am surprised. I was hopeful about Wright when he originally earned the contract but his play certainly curtailed. When looking at this draft in particular, it really shouldn't be a surprise. There are much younger talent available for a much better team value.

If Wagner goes, they could really benefit from FA Mangold: solid O-line with only RT as a Q.

IF Wagner goes, expect to see Alex Lewis kick out to RT. IT also would provide more flexibility in the draft. The could draft a RT or a G, depending who they like and who is available. I would think they draft a G, as it is much simpler to make the transition. Alex Lewis played T and has shown he can hold his own. More opportunities to further develop the skills for T will only benefit him. He also lined up next to Stanley who is a beast and technician, so he has a good counter par to learn from.

Throwback, I wouldnt be bashing Wagner that much I mean I dont know how much stock you put into pff but I put some stock into it. Wagner has been a top 5 RT over his Ravens career

Exactly. Not sure where the misguided conceptions of his play stem from. He has been a solid RT in and out. Now the market being what it is for RT, Wagner is lined up to cash in. Ravens I am certain offered him a solid offer, just not excessive, which is being smart. There are times to spend big and times to hold the line. Just like real life you can't overspend all the time without paying for it eventually. Balancing your budget is what allows you to occasionally spend big when the right opportunity presents itself.

Basically as a metaphor, the salary cap is like playing cards. Each year is like a new hand of cards. Of course you can only ever have a max number of cards in your hand to play the round. After the round is over you get the ability to drop the cards you no longer want and restock your hand.

This also helps to explain why teams do not drop all their cards and start with a fresh hand very often. You might not see the cards you want again until several rounds later.

It is obviously more complex that this, but as a simple way to get the just of things, it works well.

The real "hometown discount" generally has been utilized when a player has already earned a bigger second contract and then on the third contract negotiations. Ray Lewis is just one example I can think of. There were obviously many teams interested in his services, even on the back nine. Ultimately he stayed and was generous to play for a little less. I think mostly this comes down to the fact he got paid well already and has received multiple contracts from the same team. In such a case you already know what you are getting, and that that team does believe in you. No one earns a second contract with the same team without a great deal of faith in that player's talent and ability.

IMHO expecting a hometown discount for a second contract is a bit out of the question. The most I would expect is if all contract offers are very similar in pay, etc; it may be simpler to stick with the team you already know, instead of testing the unknown and having to pack up and move, then start new.

This is another side of the same argument.

The NFL is experiencing a decline in fan attendance and people watching the games on whatever day they are played. I personally don't believe, like others, that as a result of changes to the game, saturation, Kaepernick kneeling for the flag or any other reason, that people come up with, is just an excuse people use whenever they want to complain that NFL interest is waning. What the teams and the NFL fail to realize is there is no allegiance to players and teams because players are now just rented as opposed to being actual team members that fans grow accustomed to and grow to like. Then when they leave they cause one of two reactions; either fans leave to go with their favorite player to another team (which I have seen quite often), or they hate the player and boo him when he comes to town. The feelings that develop between fans and players are not just wham bam thank you fan affairs, fans get to know players, players families, their children, or like Torrey Smith, a local boy, who attracted attention at Maryland, then signed with the Ravens and he seemed like a family member not just a player on the team I support. I can't tell you the number of jerseys we have in our family of players that no longer play for the Ravens. At $100 a pop, it is very frustrating and personally, I don't even buy NFL gear anymore. This is a direct result of the johnny come lately system the NFL and NFLPA have evolved into.

If the NFL doesnt want to continue to go down the road of losing fans, year after year, as they did the last two years, they really need to look at a way to address the facts that fans have no connection to players anymore and therefore have no connection to the game. Seeing their favorite player play isn't a big deal because they have no favorite player as a result of the revolving door policy. The NFL and NFLPA need to look at giving a "home town subsidy" to the team that players are presently playing with by subsidizing the contract of the player if he chooses to stay with his team, keeping the fan base of the team, thus keeping the fans of NFL football, making buying a player jersey something more than just a three year investment.

To me its not all the peripheral stuff that goes on with the NFL that is affecting the fan base. Its not the saturation of the game since we are playing three days a week now. Its not because of the legal issue of players and its not any of the other things that pundits point out. It is the fact that there is no desire to support a faceless team and when players come and go like they change their underwear, why watch. And when you win a super bowl and just three years later only have 4 people left on the team from that super bowl team, then what is the motivation to continue to support a faceless team that changes its roster every 4 years.

I hear ya. I'll point out that if your reason for watching and rooting for a team is solely based on your favorite player plays for them, you are not really a team fan as much you are a player fan. There are many fans such as this, in large part due to fantasy football. Team fans do not tend to mind who is playing for them or not. Yes it would be nice to keep all the best of the best but we have all seen what inequality and disparity within the league does to overall interests, outside a small collection of teams.

FYI - If buying NFL gear left a bad taste in your mouth due to players moving on, either wait until you know the player whose jersey, etc you are looking to purchase, is going to be around long term (signs a second contract) or just get a blank jersey or throw your name on it. There are no guarantees in life, so decide carefully. Keep in mind you can always get a blank and apply a name plate later on.

Personally, although many of the recent changes have taken a bit to get used to, now that the dust is somewhat settling again, I am enjoying the fact teams overall are becoming more on par with one another. Games are becoming more interesting in general. The NFL will never achieve perfect equity among teams, however after a few seasons now, it is apparent that the weaker teams have started to become much more competitive than in the past. It really has not greatly affected the top teams negatively much either. Sure they may lost a few quality players now and again, due mostly to salary cap, but the trade off is additional picks for teams who generally develop well. (Plus ability to trade those picks now.) Also one teams loss is another teams gain, of course nothing is free so they do have to pay, and rightly so.

If you fall into the category of your team losing more players than in acquires, then your team if probably in good health comparatively to the other teams. If you generally acquire more talent than develop, your team is still probably trying to close the talent gap.

Hensley is clueless and simply filling dead air time. Why is the world would any team or agent rely on what ESPN thinks about any sport? Because they film sports they are suddenly experts? Notice how the underlying message and tone is that Baltimore is all washed up without hope. Time to stop with posting outside content and kick them to the curb.

  19 hours ago, sizzlingdoom said:

I hear what you're saying about King. I think the speed thing is a bit overblown though at times. Especially considering he's a technician and can make up for it with things like foot placement, awareness, and anticipation. I also think if he's playing safety, it doesn't matter to much at all if he doesn't run a 4.4. Or even a 4.5 I think he can play some corner, but I also think he would make a nasty Safety combo with Weddle. As much as I hated it when we interchanged our safeties between Free and Strong, I think King and Weddle can play both positions at a very high level. Which would create a lot of versatility.
I like Jones and Wilson at corner. Interested to see what Wilson runs.
Peppers scares the hell out of me. I know a lot of people love him. But I honestly wouldn't even consider taking him in the 2nd. Especially in this draft. He just shouts athlete and college player to me. Not NFL star. I'd be really surprised if he ever makes a pro bowl. We'll see though. I think it's nuts people are just assuming he can not only all of the sudden become an NFL Safety, but one also worthy of a top 10 pick in some minds.

peppers isnt just an athlete though. his instincts are incredible and it shows on film. he was used as a LB and a blitzer/attacker in college and it didnt allow him to show any of his chops in coverage, but he is certainly athletic enough to cover in the NFL and he was the most instinctive player on the field, and that is a trait that translates to any position, if he is highly instinctive as a LB he will be highly instinctive as a SS, on tape he sniffs out the running lane before it develops, he sniffs out wr screens before the ball is snapped and covers ground in an instant. i understand the concern about switching from LB to S, but players successfully change positions all the time, and peppers has the IQ and unteachables to make it happen i think.

Isn't that the concern though. It is not like LB are never asked to cover, assuming the coach trusts them in coverage situations (obvious downs). Changing positions is never a guarantee that a player transitions well. Not impossible but not a given either. Peppers is certainly an athlete with instincts which is why he'll find a role some where. I cannot see many teams making him a LB other than passing downs perhaps and a lack of typical weight. Wouldn't want him to put on more weight either or lose out on speed and agility. He'll best be utilized as a back end hammer IMHO. That means needing a patient counter part at safety as tandem. Similar to a Bernard Pollard, probably more talented and less 15-yarders. Just a hunch on the last one.

Brandon Marshall is not going to be Raven. Signing him means less reps for the talent on the team and will cost a lot more. Gotta let the young players play so they can become the game changers needed.

I love our cap situation! Where is it even being spent? I don't need an article though, I'm well aware lmao 

Look on offense. You have Flacco as the highest cap hit in the league. Hands and Wallace getting paid good money and two past their prime TEs getting nice cash too. Nothing crazy though, we have no elite RB or WR contracts. 

On defense you have Jimmy, Weddle, Webb, Suggs, and Doom getting paid. The rest? Mosley and Jernigan both coming out of rookie deals next year, unless we 5th year option Mosley. 

The guise is that we have so much dead money still counting against the cap and we literally have little breathing room to improve the team. FO is to blame there. Homers there isn't much to explain there besides we need to make a huge difference with this draft class.

Yes, the dead money has been an issue for sure. Although I wouldn't be so quick to say it is all the FO's doing. There was the Ray Rice incident and numerous injuries over several seasons, which compounded that issue considerably. At this juncture though, the Ravens are almost past all that dead money pileup. In some ways, although it tied hands, it occurred in a rather choice time, when the team needed to get younger anyways. The situation really enforced going this direction. Come next year when they will need to sign up and comers to second contracts, they should be a in good position to do so.

My only request of the FO is that make more team friendly contracts, as far as when players are injured. It does not seem right to be paying out near full dollars when you don't get close to the value. Players deserve to still be paid even if injured for sacrificing their bodies/health, but if contracts are paid out mostly based on production then there is some adequate relief in the event a player cannot contribute. Have a reasonable base amount, no matter what, then escalators for production. Some would be the typical do the basics (very realistic goals to meet) and others would be hitting certain performance points above and beyond. Only neg I can think of, with limited knowledge, is it may be a bit difficult to project what you pay out until later in the season.

I also think perhaps Webb's contract may be renegotiated, for playing safety and not corner. I anticipated it happening last year, but it seems they gave him a chance to show how he fares at a new position. He did play well but IMHO his numbers are a bit high based on production. Thinking a slight adjustment is in order.

Why do the Ravens wait until the contract is up to offer a very good competitive contract? Why do all our players rather hit free agency?

It just trips me out how teams like the Steelers can keep Brown, Bell, and Big Ben and we struggle to keep guys that are not even pro bowlers.

Well it is a straight forward process. If you know you have a foundational player about to hit FA you pull out all the stops to retain them. If they are a solid player but not a foundational type player, you try to negotiate and they try to negotiate. Testing the market only makes sense to at least get a clear idea of what actual value is going to be.

With the salary cap era, teams cannot simply go out and offer huge contracts to every FA. This is also why comp picks exist. They serve to offset the inevitability of parting ways with some of the "homegrown" talent. Basically a small reward for bolstering the talent in the league and to help cover the loss; if you draft well.

It just trips me out how teams like the Steelers can keep Brown, Bell, and Big Ben and we struggle to keep guys that are not even pro bowlers.

It is much harder to replace Pro Bowl caliber talent. Not sure why you would be upset with not being foolish. Steelers fan trolling?!

I hope he doesn't leave. I know he's not a flash player that everyone will say is a great signing but teams need players like this. He understands he is not going to be the next great d-back in Ravens history but he works hard on special teams and steps in when needed and stays out of trouble off the football field.

Agreed. I think it makes a lot more sense to try and retain Levine in lieu of an older player that offers the same. There are a few but I won't name names. Versatility also means he has a solid understanding of more than one position. ST alone is not enough to guarantee a roster spot but coupled with his versatility and his knack for making plays, he should be around come September.

Nothing out of the norm here. Offer contracts to the players that make sense to try and retain. Of course the players you want to retain are also a bit tempted to at the very least test the FA market and try to cash in.

Crazy thought. What if the Ravens ultimately cannot retain BW or Wagner. I know it sounds like a bad scenario but on the plus side there would be more cap to go around and address other concerns. Not my first choice, but should it come to pass (getting out bid essentially) there is a positive such a scenario.

with ELAM gone,makes sense to draft a young safety,like DES KING in the second round.

Budda Baker is so much better. Des King would be okay though.

IMHO while Mangold is a solid starter at C, at his current age there would not be a vast difference. Fact is the line wares down bodies pretty good and north of 30 it starts to show. Only way he becomes a Raven is if he passes physical and can be signed at a discount. Personally, I don't think he'll want to play without a decent contract.

Zuttah is still a solid C. It appears that time is starting to catch up with him a bit, not having the same push he used to, in the run game.

If Ravens really want to get better at C, the it is time to draft one, possibly 3-5th round, with the depth at CB some good talent should still be available in the early-mid rounds.

This should all but guarantee 2 secondary draft selections within the first 3 rounds with 4 picks. No need to trade up or back to take advantage of deep secondary class and still have flexibility to grab a difference maker when the picking is good.

One thing I feel would speed up the game is getting competent referees. There is no need for the excessive number of conferences for the referees to discuss a call. We need quality referees to make quick calls and move on.

I see no need for the referee to go under the hood to review  a challenged call, let the league office make the call. I also think referees don't make calls and rely on replay to correct their errors, they need to make the call.

I agree player safety is important but the league has gone too far with personal foul penalties, football is a contact sport and players are well compensated for the risks they take. 

 

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Unless you can do a better job at NFL refereeing you should not complain. Given their enormous rule book it is somewhat amazing they can do as well as they do. Remember the stand in refs? I'll assume you can find evidence for yourself if you didn't witness it. Point is they do not have an easy job and your comment does not address the actual difficulty involved.

All replays, challenges etc. should all come from a separate set of booth officials that do not need to be "in the building". They can work remotely and simply get shown the relevant clips and make their ruling. This would eliminate some bias, as they wouldn't be able to necessarily watch the entire game. They would be responsive to which ever calls come in to review. Additionally, if you isolate the booth judges/refs, you could get even more reduced bias. Say 3 refs view the call and make a decision, the ref on the field gets the number of yay's or nay's and on with the game. Reduces time as booth refs call start rolling asap, reduces time with no need to huddle up and discuss who is right, what they saw. Streamlined refereeing 101.

"Some football "players" as you quoted "are well compensated for the risks they take." The reality is most football players do not stay in the league very long. This usually equates to a couple big checks, compared to what they earned before if they had jobs. It is nothing to scoff at, but given the types of injuries they are exposed to and then factoring in that many potential injuries are life long, it does not all add up. You just won't find many if any sources publishing stats on the effects on health for the players that cycle through the system.

Every year we give away guys we have invested in and we need to change that scenario. It gets ridiculous after a while. I would not mind if it happened once in
a while but every year just not very satisfactory. It makes us be twice as good at
drafting than other teams.

It is simply not possible to retain every player you draft and develop. The main question every good GM has to ask before even making a decision on whether to give a player a second contract offer, can this player be a foundational player for your organization? If not, then the decision is simple and comes down to the dollars. If a contract becomes too much (expensive), that's that.

When you do have a foundational type player, it becomes an easy decision to do everything possible to retain them. Every successful team has several foundational players throughout their rosters, and they become the key around which you build your roster.

So which players are you referring to exactly that you believe should have been retained?

IMHO BW is really the only player is the last few seasons to fit your description.

Maybe K.O. but that was not about not wanting to retain him as much as it was about limited cap dollars to retain either K.O. or Yanda. They went with the sure thing as Yanda has been a model of success for all Guards to learn from. K.O. is certainly a great player in his own. In a pre-salary cap era they would have kept him not doubt.