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I understand the sentiment, but I don't see how you can honestly include RT in that. 3/5T and ILB are fine, we've got options already there and we have a history of finding guys late/undrafted to fill those spots adequately. But unless we plan to move Lewis to RT we currently can't feel comfortable with a competition between 2 guys that spent last year on the practice squad for the starting job and Hurst. Nobody said that means we have to take one early, the one you responded to was just pointing out that it wasn't addressed at all. We have a history of finding solid RTs in the mid rounds, not UDFA. Of course if Lewis is moved out then this is all irrelevant, but we can't just assume that he's going to. Even if we aren't looking for a starter, depth on the line was still a big problem last year, even before we lost two starters this offseason.

I'm just going through some pro day stuff from the guys we've met with on this list and Keion Adams had a pretty impressive day Height: 6’ 2” Weight: 247 pounds Hand: 9.5 inches Wingspan: 78.25 inches Bench press: 27 x 225 pounds - One of the knocks on him is that he lacks strength, 27 reps is great for him Vertical jump: 36 inches Broad jump: 10 feet, 4 inches 40 time: 4.68 seconds Short 20 shuttle: 4.35 seconds 60 yard shuttle: 11.12 seconds - would have been the best at the combine Pretty great numbers for a mid/late round prospect, tape shows some solid bend and great quickness. Isn't really one to string pass rush moves together though. I wouldn't be mad if we grabbed this guy with our 5th or 6th.

That's gotta be a smokescreen, I'm not as high on King as some people have been after the combine - I still don't see him as a first rounder - but 7th rounder tape is stretching it more than a bit.

Don't rub it in, I've been awake for 52 straight hours doing nonstop work, I don't want to hear about you being off right now

Only about two rounds too early for him to go

I don't know if I can see him going in the first at all, let alone 16th overall. Way too raw on defense to justify taking him over any other top CB. Return abilities are great and all, but I wouldn't take a return specialist in the first. I think he's way too risky of a prospect to go so early.

I'd be happy with a Fournette pick, even though I'm pretty much against taking RBs in the first round and I'm not the biggest fan of Fournette around, but having a smash mouth defense and a smash mouth offense that just burns time is a recipe for having a great defense all season long. The defense won't be stuck on the field with limited rest if our offense is burning at minimum a few minutes per drive, they'll stay fresh and a big reason our defense just fell off a cliff over the last few games was because our offense were kings of 3 passes and out. Also, pounding a defense is the best way to wear them down and that opens up the play action which Joe has historically ran so well - and getting Joe out of the pocket early will give him more time if we can't sure up our line pass-blocking-wise by the start of the season. We wouldn't be the most excited team to ever show up on the scene, but winning is winning, even if it ain't pretty - though I personally love to watch great defenses

Besides the Browns obviously getting Garrett... I'd hate for the Bengals to get Hooker if he slides. Just considering our passing offense is built on speed and deep balls - despite our recent reliance on screens I don't think that's our true identity, I really don't want to have to take on a range safety with ball skills twice a year like him. Close second would be the Steelers taking TJ Watt at the end of the first, I think Watt is going to be something special, maybe not right away, but give him a year or two and I think he's going to be a nightmare to deal with.

Talk about needlessly reading into something and taking unnecessary offense. All I'm saying is that everytime I used to go into those threads and say "well Flacco shouldn't be absolved of all blame, he's certainly nowhere near the biggest problem on the team and he has little help, but some of the decisions he makes are entirely on him" I get negged to death, and as such I stopped going into those threads. That's literally all i'm saying there, I certainly didn't say there was no such thing as objectivity here, you may be confusing me for the other guy who was saying that. I even said later in that comment that you quoted that there is plenty of sane discussion to have on Flacco, it just doesn't usually happen in those threads.

I disagree, but we've all got our own boards and can judge our own value. To me he's fine value at 16, but there's lots of players I'd take over him that'll realistically be available at that pick I'll edit this in: I don't think anyone here said he was bad value there, but as I said earlier, I don't view him as a top 10, maybe even top 15, player.

Possibly, I just saw a few mocks with us grabbing him and I've held the opinion for forever that I like Jarrad Davis the best, at least for us, in this ILB class. If the choice is Reuben Foster at 16 or trading back and landing Davis, then I'd choose Davis all day. I don't necessarily think he'll be available when we pick, but given his offseason I wouldn't be shocked.

You want a surprise under-the-radar pick if we trade back in the first? Jarrad Davis, man I love this kid and I think he fits so well with what we've got. Mosley is best when he's got a primary coverage LB beside him and if there's anything Davis can do it's cover, he's, in my opinion, easily the best coverage LB in the class. We all assumed that Correa will be the replacement for Orr, but has anyone actually affiliated with the team said that that is our intent with him? All I have heard them say is that moving him around so much was a mistake last year, but I don't recall anyone from the FO or coaching staff say he'll be primarily inside next year. Personally I like Correa more at EDGE than inside, he's athletic but putting him inside takes away one of his biggest strengths - his jump off the snap. I think Davis can be plugged in next to Mosley and handle the primary coverage responsibilities from the get go. Recently I've seen a couple mocks giving us Foster at 16 and that's what's spurred me suddenly pushing Davis. I think Davis fits our defense much better than Foster does. You can always use a guy that sets a physical tone like Foster does, but I think Davis' coverage abilities really make him better for us. Pair with that his athleticism and sure tackling and I think this guy jsut doesn't get the love he deserves - mainly do to his injuries, which are a legitimate concern. I'd be surprised, but I wouldn't be disappointed if we traded back and grabbed him.

Fortunately, as another thread shows, visits and reported interest actually aren't good indicators of who we're going to take aside from the first round.

Not that this thread needs to devolve into more Flacco discussion, but around here in Flacco threads you get two sides and no in between - either you see him do no wrong or he is the sole reason we've been terrible - hence why I steer clear of any Flacco thread ever made on here. Usually in threads not made specifically about him you can get rational discussion about his strengths and weaknesses as a QB. But the Flacco v. Ryan debate was contentious regardless of what forum you're on until this past year when Ryan pull ahead clearly. But it's just plain wrong to say this is the only place where people would argue Flacco was better, as someone that takes part in the NFL subreddit, again, it was a contentious debate before this past year. I honestly would like any proof that any post saying Brady is better is negged, I strongly doubt that, that is an exaggeration. Only time that gets negged is if we're going into a Ravens v. Patriots game and in that scenario anything to do with the Pats is negged out of principle.

Lol, weird, saying Foster isn't a top 15 talent now means that I'm against taking him out of the top 15, makes sense. Seems like you've got a bad case of "I'm always right and everyone is just against me" syndrome. I'd like to see if anyone in the history of this sub has every said anything to the effect of "Flacco is better than Brady," Who else outside of our range have I ever trashed around here besides Foster - whom I have never trashed, he's a fine player, but I do think he's overrated - and Solomon Thomas - who's trashing I'll stand behind any day of the week. I have not gone against any other player that is seemingly out of our range. I'm sorry that that fact doesn't jive with your "I'm always right and the negs prove that" mentality.

Not to mention Myles Jack and Jaylon Smith who were both top 5 caliber LBs before they got injured

Said the same thing on the first page. He's easily the best coverage LB already, if he didn't have a serious injury history he'd be in the conversation of first LB taken. I'm not all that high on Foster, he'll set a physical tone, but I don't think he's got the instincts of past LBs taken in the top 10. To me he's not a top 10, maybe even top 15, guy in this class. If we want a Bama LB wait until next year for Rashaan Evans.

I don't know about that, everything I've watched of Thomas screams 3-tech DT and I don't really buy Armstead as a DE in the 4-3, to me he should be inside in that scheme.

I know, and I think it's really ridiculous. Guy is not a top 5 talent and the 49ers don't need another Dlineman, I don't see it happening. But stranger things have happened on draft day.

Anyone wanna make a prediction on which team is going have the big reach in the first? We know someone will, who will it be? My money's on Cincy, lost so much this offseason, especially along the line, I think they're going to reach on someone to address one of those needs

Solomon Thomas goes nowhere near top 5 and all the "experts" will act amazed on the draft broadcast - fingers crossed John Lynch is at least somewhat competent for this one to come true Jabrill Peppers is going in the top half of the first round Melinfonwu and Charlton are going to get reached on big time and neither will be anything more than average at the next level Sidney Jones is still one of the top CBs to come off the board - possibly still in the first (heck I'll be bold and say he will go late first) - and is the best CB in the class when it's all said and done. Ejuan Price will be one of the biggest steals in the draft, may be in consideration for rookie of the year as a situational pass rusher, 10+ sacks as a rookie somewhere Jarrad Davis is the best ILB in the draft In a year or two TJ Watt will be a very high end player. QB class ends up being solid and nowhere near as bad as people think. Trubisky and Kizer being legit starting caliber QBs Samford WR Karel Hamilton will be a starting caliber player in the NFL, will get drafted in the 6th - I hope to us, but I have a sinking feeling the Steelers will see the traits in him and he'll be their next steal at the position. We're picking up John Law, ILB, App St. and he will be our replacement for Orr, not immediately but in a couple years.

I know I said the the mock I just put out a little while ago was probably my final mock…but I’ve done something foolish – I have convinced myself that one player will be our pick, and it doesn’t mesh with my last mock. I have a little bit of free time, and I have to make an official final mock, none of this “probably” nonsense that I pulled with the last one. I need to stick to my guns on one and it’s gonna be this one. I’m just going to go ahead and delete the other one so I don’t have two recent mocks that are active – not that there is much conversation on the other one anyway… The last two mocks I made I had myself convinced of a first round trade back, that is no longer the case. I think we’re going to stay put knowing that our target is going to be there. Now I’m back to my old ways of not even trying to project trades. Obviously come draft day we're almost surely going to do at least one trade, my guess is a trade back in the second after no one special is left on the board - though I'm going to put someone special in this mock just cause. Round 1, pick 16 – Malik McDowell // DE/DT // Michigan State // 6’6”, 295 lbs It’s foolish of me, but I’ve convinced myself that McDowell is our target here at 16. To me, all the signs are pointing to him being our guy – if you can get some consistency out of him then he’s a steal here; he’s a legit top 10, maybe even top 5 talent when he’s playing at his best and nabbing a top 5 talent at 16 is the most Ozzie thing ever. We brought him in for a private workout and as another thread pointed out, every first round pick over the last 5 years has come in for a private workout. I think that trading away Jernigan means we feel like we can get an adequate or better replacement in the draft and one way that'd be the case is if we are willing to bet on getting the most out of player that will almost surely be available, i.e McDowell; I only have so much faith in Davis and Henry, and I don’t like Pierce at DT as much as situational NT. McDowell can step in and, in my opinion, upgrade the DT position immediately and provide some much needed pass rush. Dline is an underrated need in the draft, it’s not our biggest need, not by a mile, but losing 2 of our starting 3 down linemen in Guy and Jernigan can’t be overlooked. Just imagine obvious passing situations having a Dline of McDowell at DE, Henry at DT, and Pierce at NT; that’ll immediately help our severely lacking pass rush from a season ago. As I said earlier, McDowell does have some consistency issues, but when he’s on the guy is straight up unblockable, it doesn’t matter how many guys you put on him he will battle his way through and get to the QB, his motor issues are overblown, if they exist at all. McDowell is gaining some hype as of late and for good reason, he's a legitimate top talent and grabbing him here may be the steal of the entire draft and he could be better than Jernigan from the get go, making our defense so much more dangerous than last year when it was already kinda dangerous. Round 2, pick 47 – TJ Watt // EDGE // Wisconsin // 6’4”, 252 lbs A bit of wishful thinking here as I love Watt. I have to scoff every time I hear someone say: “the only reason people like him is because of his last name,” watch the kid’s tape and tell me that. One year playing some EDGE – Wisconsin didn’t use him there exclusively, they played him at ILB too, maybe even moreso than EDGE once injuries struck their ILBs. When he’s playing EDGE he’s deadly, the guy is just a playmaker and when it’s time to just go after the QB he’ll be as good as anyone with some polishing. EDGE is obviously a need for us, Suggs is 34 and currently we’re slated to start McClellan at the opposite spot again, don’t get me wrong, McClellan is fantastic at setting the edge and an ace on STs, but as a pass rusher he might as well not be on the field at all. Judon showed plenty of promise this past year but that doesn’t give me a ton of confidence since the position was such a problem last year and he’s still pretty raw. Z. Smith needs to do something or else he’s going to get cut, there’s just no room for another run stuffer at the position and he plays so high and tight hipped that his pass rush ability leaves a lot to be desired. I’m not one to put a ton of stock into the combine, but all of the drills that matter most for his position, Watt did magnificently – 37 inch vertical and 128 inch broad show his explosion, 6.79 sec 3-cone drill shows his quickness around the edge, and his 4.13 20-yd shuttle shows his short area quickness. 21 reps on the bench isn’t bad at all for a guy as long as he is and at his current weight of 252 lbs, NFL level strength and conditioning will get his strength up in no time, but his strength at the point of attack is a minor concern, he already is adequate as setting the edge – could be better, but he isn’t a liability there. The real issue with this pick is simply whether he’ll even be around, personally I’m not so sure, but I think it’s possible. The EDGE class is a very interesting one and is very fluid after Barnett. It’s certainly not unimaginable to me that Charles Harris, Takk McKinley, Carl Lawson, and Tim Williams could go before Watt and there are some other names that I think could potentially go higher as well, pushing him either to our pick or within trade range. Forget about Watt’s name, if his name were Johnson then I’d feel the same way, his potential is sky high and has the ability contribute, maybe even start, right away. Round 3, pick 74 – Desmond King // CB/S // Iowa // 5’10”, 201 lbs Even with the signing of Carr we still have a big need for depth at CB considering Jimmy is pretty much a lock to get injured at some point (fingers crossed I’m wrong there) and we declined to sign Powers and released Wright, so our depth is pretty much abysmal. I’d love to slot Sidney Jones here since he’s my top CB in the class, but I think that either 1) He doesn’t make it here, or 2) In recent history we haven’t shown a willingness to take injured guys early, later on sure, but not early. Call me crazy, but King just seems like an Ozzie pick – not the most athletically or physically gifted kid out there, but he’s as technically sound as someone could be coming out and his instincts are undeniable. I still think King will be a better safety in the NFL than CB, but year 1 he will be depth at both safety and slot CB. I know some won’t like the idea of adding another smaller CB to the fray considering King stands at just 5’10”, but like Tavon, he plays bigger than he is and, again, he so technically sound already that he will be able to contribute right away. King falls because of his disappointing season, as well as his physical limitations. Being small, short armed, and not particularly fast he slides big time in a class as deep as this year’s is. Good thing because King at this point is a steal, now that Webb is back he will get to learn from a somewhat similar player – honestly though, go look at their respective draft profiles, they’re more similar than you’ll expect – while adding depth to two positions immediately. King is also a very willing tackler which has always been something we value in DBs – not to say we always go for guys that can tackle, just look at Elam, but at very least they’re willing to get in there. Also, King provides competition at return man, which has suddenly become an interesting competition given Webb’s contract incentives in return yardage, Reynold’s presumed role, and Camp’s solid-yet-unspectacular contributions at punt returner. With the addition of McDowell, Watt, and King, along with the FA pickups of Jefferson and Carr, our defense is going to be scary and when our defense is scary we are a force to be reckoned with in the AFC. We need to get past this business of becoming a more offense oriented team, it's just not what we do and our attempts to become that have hurt us recently. We need to get back to our roots, power run and playactiion on offense, and ferociousness on defense and that'll get us back to the promise land *eventually...happy with the clarification JoeyFlex5? Round 3, pick 78 – Antonio Garcia // OT // Troy // 6’6”, 302 lbs – sorta In my opinion the single biggest limiting factor on this team is the offensive line and it’s not close. Currently we have no RT – assuming Lewis stays at LG, no clear center, and depth issues all around. Garcia has the traits to be the real deal at tackle but he’ll definitely need plenty of work to get there. Strength is a real problem of his, rumors say that his play weight was well below 300 lbs which is not good for a tackle, but NFL level strength and conditioning is a beautiful thing, once he’s in the weight room with our new staff and some of the workout warriors we’ve got in the locker room already, he’ll be a new man come preseason. Good news is that technically the guy isn’t as far behind as lots of developmental guys tend to be – low key I kinda love the guy’s footwork already. Garcia can compete for the starting RT job right out of the gate and considering the other options we’ve got I’d say he’ll be the favorite. However, I do question whether he’s the type of lineman we’re looking for with our new coaches, he’s not really a mauler type player. Round 4, pick 122 – Amara Darboh // WR // Michigan // 6’2”, 214 lbs I know, I know, I can already see the comments: “Waiting until round 4 for a WR??? Are you insane???” but I firmly believe that we’re going to give Perriman the start next season, regardless of who we draft. Sooner or later you have to throw the guy into the fire and I suspect we’re going to do that this season. However, we do really need depth at the position considering we lost both Smith and Aiken. Darboh is a big bodied guy that can get open and make catches over the middle. He is sort of like Perriman in that he makes some circus catches but every once in a while, he’ll drop one that’ll leave you scratching your head. Luckily, we can afford to slot him in as the #3/4 WR on the depth chart and let him develop while getting some limited playing time. Darboh can take over Aiken’s role immediately while Perriman and Wallace start. The Michigan Harbaugh connection must stay alive as well. Also, from what I’ve watched, he also looks like a very smart receiver when it comes to bailing out the QB, something that shouldn’t be neglected since we lost Smith who was also great at that. When things go south Joe will need a receiver that can recognize that and give him an outlet, Darboh seems adept at doing just that. As of now I think the top 2 WRs on the depth chart are set in stone, Wallace is coming off a 1000 yd season and is getting paid $8M which should tell you all you need to know about whether we’re going to start him or not, and Perriman as I already talked about. After those two it gets a bit more foggy, but with the addition of Darboh I don’t think we’re in bad shape; people remember Moore’s contributions on STs last year and his couple easy drops above all else, but what you should keep in mind or go back and look for yourself, the guy was getting open with some level of consistency, unfortunately I don’t think Joe trusted him after the first couple drops and never threw his way again, if his hands are better then we’ve got a real player in him. Darboh provides another target on the outside and after him Camp and Reynolds are fighting for the last spot and the primary slot duties. In my opinion, that’s a potentially very solid group of receivers paired with our million and a half TEs. Round 5, pick 159 – Jordan Morgan // OG // Kutztown // 6’3”, 309 lbs Many factors play into this pick. For starters, we have a history of taking both Senior Bowl players, as Morgan was, and at least one small school guy (we’ve taken one in every draft in at least the last decade). At the Senior Bowl Morgan played at LG and was very impressive to me, aside from some technique issues he was an absolute rock along the line. Every technical issue that I saw looked very fixable to me – for example, as a pass blocker he’s impatient and if someone doesn’t emerge to be blocked immediately he sometimes leaves his hole to find someone to block, obviously can be a problem at the next level. But the guy is a straight mauler, which seems like the direction our new Oline coaches want to go in. I think that if he’s developed right then he will be a mainstay on our line for quite some time once he wins a starting spot. Round 6, pick whatever – Who the hell knows Didn’t need to include this, but oh well, it’s here, what are you gonna do about it? Lots of different options here: second WR, RB, second CB, OL, truly could be anyone this late, no sense in even trying to predict it – as if I have any special insight into the previous picks either… Notes: **No RB - I do think we'll grab one, just not until late. West is an adequate starter and Dixon is only gone for 4 games. We've got a receiving back in the mean time in Buck and I've always got my fingers crossed on Taliaferro. It's a pretty deep RB class and we aren't in dire need regardless. **One WR - As I said in the Darboh explanation, i suspect Perriman is getting the start no matter what. Aside from Perriman we've got Wallace and Moore who are locks to make the roster and I think Camp will if only because we don't have any real slot receivers left. I think one WR with potential is more than enough. **No center - As much as it gives me anxiety and flashbacks of 2013, I think the coaches are going to let Jensen, Urschel, and Skura battle it out for the starting job assuming no one falls to us in the draft.

Objectively entirely untrue on every point here. Collins started the season terribly, anyone that actually watched the Cowboys - as I did because by brother is a Cowboys fan - will tell you that. And no one was saying any of this about Upshaw, in fact he is the exact antithesis of every argument you've made. He was a bull rusher first and foremost without any other EDGE traits and lacked fluidity. You literally just said Barnett has no strength and all he has is technique as a pass rusher, or else he would never get home as he lacks game breaking athleticism.