merryjman

Good to see Ben Watson back up and about. I am very interested to see what he can bring to the table after the injury, especially given his age. At the very least, I think he is a good locker room presence and will be able to work with young guys like Boyle, Williams and even Gilmore.

I can't figure out why Urschel hasn't quite materialized as a true starter yet. Clearly he's got the brains to be an O-line guy (as they are typically the smartest guys on the field by a long shot) and his size isn't terribly small. But something is holding him back still. Would really love to see him become the starting center.

I watched the press conference, and I don't think they were lying when they said that defense was just how it shook out. Ozzie even said something like "believe me, if Leonard Fournette was there at 16 we would have taken him!" And with only 6 picks, trading up would have been a terrible idea. The draft is such a dice-roll that having lots of picks is a big deal.

The WR talent was simply not worth taking at 16 with the top three gone. And let's face it, Flacco is not the kind of guy that can elevate a 3rd round WR to #1 receiver status. I like him, happy he's our QB, but he's not that guy.

Besides, I am not ready to write Perriman off as a bust. Last year was basically his rookie season, and he was still recovering from injury at the beginning of it. Plus we can hope that the injury bug won't hit the tight end crew so catastrophically. Ben Watson will be back, so will Crockett. And oh yeah - remember that 21 year old developmental guy we got in 2015? I'm not ready to call Maxx a bust either.

I am more worried about the RB position. Don't think West is the guy, and Dixon is out for 25% of the season. Who else is there??

I have June 12 as the date that Campanaro goes on year-long injured reserve. Any one want to take the over/under?

  1 hour ago, Flamengo1265 said:

If the Ravens didn't need 2 offense linemen, an edge rusher and a linebacker this would have been a good (not great) pick. But hey, at least he's from Alabama. You know what makes a secondary look good....a strong pass rush.

Yep. A strong pass rush. Good thing we got a great secondary since they are going to be running around all day long covering receivers while opposing QB's sit in a rocking chair waiting for someone to get open.

Yep - definitely the most important area to address now. With no pass rush, every QB in the league looks like a Pro Bowler against us.

  32 minutes ago, 20306cab said:

Ozzie's had plenty of bad 1st round picks, especially lately. But this is the worst ever.

Playing against the Sqeelers 2 x a year with Antonio Brown, Martavius Bryant and Ladarius Green... means we need cover guys

The Bengals have AJ Green, John Ross, Tyler Boyd, Eifert, etc

The Browns have Corey Coleman, Possible Josh Gordon Back, Gary Barnridge, Kenny Britt and the 1st round TE out of Miami they just drafted.

We better be able to cover in our division and Ozzie and Company seems to recognize that adding Weddle and Tavon Young last season, Jefferson, Carr ad Humphrey this season.

Remember that this draft is deep and we still have time to add to the OL, WR corps and pass rushers.

Totally agree! The AFC North used to be considered a physical, ground and pound division. But now that some of the best receivers in the nation are in this division, the story has to change.

So - as you said - this was not only a need, but also a good response to the talent in our division and to the top tier AFC teams elsewhere.

Which means the all-important next step is to get more than one pass rusher in this draft!

  3 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

As usual, all depends on how we rate those players. By all accounts its a pretty weak OL class, so the FO may easily be looking at a handful of these first round guys and questioning whether they're significantly better than a 3rd or 4th rounder we could choose instead. If they don't think they are, I'm sure they'll steer clear of them in the first all together.

My money is on WR or a defensive player, namely an edge player.

But that leaves the O-line's issues un addressed. And they MUST BE addressed if we are hoping for any kind of offensive production. And the free agent market for O-linemen may even be worse than ther rookie crop... and, though there's always a chance of in-house replacements, I for one do not trust either of the Urschel/Jensen/Wesley/Hurst quartet... I haven't seen anything of them to baye any such hope on...

So, I would still vote for an O-lineman.

 

That said, I still have the suspicion that Ozie finds a trade partner to trade down 6-8 spots, and pick up Jabrill Peppers there. The Harbaugh-pipeline have provided the evaluators and decision makers with every last bit of information on him, and we all know how Ozzie and Harbaugh love versatility. And Peppers may be  the single most versatile guy in this year's draft. He can be a S, a CB, a LB... Many analysts say he's a kind of "jack of all trades, master of none" typs of deal - still I would name him if I absolutely had to name a polayedr I think Ozzie will pick on Thursday.

I also disagree on picking OL in the first round - this year is just not a great class. Definitely a couple of later round picks should go to a guard/center and a right tackle - it's too much to hope they score bug with another R Wagner type pick, but that's what I'd like to see them try.

Pass rush and receiver are bigger needs, I think.

Ha, nobody else saw the pun at the end where it said that the Ravens marching band was "instrumental" in bringing a team back to Baltimore?

11 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

And that would be a mistake on your part. If you listen to what the FO says at the post-season pressers and what they tell you about what they're interested in for the draft, they pretty much do exactly what they say they're going to do.

And that's because everyone can usually see exactly what the team needs, so there's no sense in being coy and pretending otherwise. It's obvious we need corners, linebackers, running backs, receivers and offensive linemen, so that's exactly who the FO says they want.

What makes all the specific names unpredictable is all the head games that the GMs play with each other on draft day. Consider the Ramsey situation, where Dallas was worried that Baltimore wanted Zeke, so wouldn't trade back. It was true that RB was a need, and so the Cowboys couldn't be certain that Ozzie would pass on Zeke, since we could have used him to great effect. And so then, the Ravens couldn't address one of their most glaring needs because Ramsey got taken 5th. 

I hope we sign Mangold, even if he's more expensive than hoped for. Gino Gradkowski worked hard, but was just too undersized against the monster interior linemen in the NFL. For that reason I don't think Urschel would flourish there, despite the allure of having a smart dude (like Birk) in the middle.

I have been saying over and over that our number one need is a pass rusher. Even the best WR in the draft would not be a good fit here, because Flacco is not the type of QB that can really bring the best out of him. I'm not a Flacco hater, but I think it's important to be realistic about him. His long ball is loooong but not accurate, his short throws move a million mph, and he is often too hasty with his reads and progressions, so he tends to dump off to tight ends and running backs too often. That's why the ones who have done best with him are the veteran possession receivers/TEs or the raw speedsters, running simple schemes designed by a coordinator who "gets" Flacco.

(And I get that maybe this instead stems from receivers who can't get open. I would love to be proved wrong - for us to get a top receiver and see him get 1300 yds with Joe)

But with a good pass rush, our defense can hold opposing teams to scores in the teens or low twenties, and that is a low enough score that Flacco can win with.

I like the idea of Brandon Marshall, as he sounds exactly like what Ozzie and Eric referred to in recent interviews. Joe seems to need a veteran he can trust to catch those 3rd-and-7 type passes.

I hope that they are able to restructure Mike W for a few more years. Seemed like that 2-year contract was always meant to be a one-year "trial period" kind of thing, to see if he still had the mojo. So now that we see he does, let's lock him down for a solid 3 or 4 year deal - not top money, but maybe top #2 receiver type money.

Finally, let me repeat my prayer for a pass rusher to be drafted in round one!

Don't get me wrong - I'm absolutely happy about Urschel's mathematical prowess being so widely recognized in the NFL scene - but somehow I can't help feeling I'd be much happier if he was renowned for his on-field production... But the reality is that he's been outplayed by a fourth-round rookie...

Seriously. I'm getting tired of the Ravens - and the NFL - boasting about their very own math genius when the guy doesn't even start, and - as you said - got outplayed by a rookie. It's as if this one genius can make up for the PR damage from hundreds of domestic assaults, drug arrests and nightclub fights.

For my money it is time for Ozzie to retire. We clearly need a fresh perspective in our drafting system. This would also ensure that we don't lose Decosta to the Colts.

Did you read the article? Nowadays, Ozzie is not very involved at all with the draft process. All he does is call up the players. It's been DeCosta for a few years now.

Besides, I think we have done a good job drafting anyway so I don't agree that a "fresh perspective" is needed at all.

People who complain about Ozzie "missing" a lot in the draft are the same ones at the roulette table who, if black shows up 8 times in a row, bet heavy on red. Spoiler alert: they leave with no money.

  2 hours ago, Azzi22 said:

alll of these 1st/2nd/3rd guys....Elam, Brown, Maxx, Davis, KC, Perriman-upshaw that's 6 PLAYERS that should be starters and dominating... yet not one knows how to play the RAVENS WAY. all this ''IN OZZ WE TRUST'' hahahahahah ill keep my mouth shut on what I think about it ...ill use my favorite word here and stay classy.... PATHETIC

Well.... most TEs do not come in and light it up as a rookie. Look at Eric Ebron or heck... even Gronk.... it took them a couple of years to grow into a NFL TE.... I think Maxx is no exception. Don't be too quick to call him a bust.

Same is true to Davis. I think Davis had a good rookie campaign. He was injured this year but there was not pressing need to rush him back to action bc of the emergence of Pierce. Davis will be healthy and ready to go next year (especially if we lose BW)

Upshaw didn't play bad and is showing more of his potential at Atlanta. Remember that he was fully used to his potential here bc most of the time he played behind a healthy Suggs and Dum- and we still got one of those comp picks for him (I think Tavon) so hard to call that a bust.

Perriman ... basically had his rookie year this year...
He posted 500 yards and 3 TDs playing as a # 3 WR.

Lets look at some other rookie WRs
Michael Thomas 1137 yards 9TDs
Sterling Shepard 693 yards 8 TD's
Corey Coleman 413 yards 3TDs
Will Fuller 635 yards 2 TDs
Malcolm MItchell 401 yards 4 TDs
Chris Conley 530 yards 0 TDs
John Doctson 66 yards 0 TDs
Laquon Treadwell 15 yards 0 TDs

So... considering that this is in essence Perrimans rookie season. He finished in the middle of the pack amongst some very highly touted rookie WRs this season. IN fact the Patriots and Chiefs are calling Mitchell and Conley breakout players and the put up less #s then Perriman did. Sterling Shepard had a great year ad wasn't exactly light years ahead of Perriman (and Shepard was the #2 WR in NY whereas Perriman was the # 3 in BMORE). Fuller is being called a rising star in the NFL and he put up 130 more rec yards and 1 less TD then Perriman. I think the expectations are still high for Perriman.

KC... while his rookie year was a very big disappointment and while am not 100% sure what we saw in him to make us jump that high for him. I am still not ready to close the books and call him a bust. I think he has a motor and wants to learn... so I think he will be able to at least be a solid contributor.

Elam and Brown were truly just misses. That happens some times, but I am not ready to say that all of those guys were a bust....in fact I do not believe that and I think that they will prove many people wrong over the next couple of years.

I think you are right on the money in every point you made. It's hard to be a commenter at this time of year, when you have to watch someone else in the playoffs, because it's so easy to be negative.

Cornerback only becomes a huge area of need with a defense that doesn't have a good pass rush. Why do you think that CBs like Cary Williams and Corey Graham got great contracts after the SB win and ended up being so-so? It's because any secondary is going to look good when a monster pass rush is forcing the QB to throw early and make mistakes.

We need edge rushers more than anything else, no question! After that, then start worrying about defensive backs.

Is there anybody who really, genuinely believes that failing to be able to do so for 7 stragiht seasons, Albert McLellan will suddenly become a starting caliber LB? It seems so weird to me that when discussing the potential replacements for Orr, everybody mentions McLellan... Don't get me wrong, I love his contribution and there's no doubnt he's the top dog of ther ST - but he's been in Baltimore for 7 years and has never became more than depth in the LB corpse. It's just insane to expect him to become the real deal now... And also, moving him primarily to the D corpse would strip the AT from its leader... I'm afraid it would be a lose-lose scenario...

I agree. Albert has been a great player but only as a special teamer. It's the same thing as when we had Ayanbadejo here - he was a good guy and a great special teams player but not a starting LB.

First off, I think we need to use free agency with reckless abandon this year. The window is closing fast for current senior players on the team. This is the year to get a couple of high value free agents unlike in previous years waiting for the best available value with the fear of losing potential comp picks. They need to be bold because the status quo strategy hasn't generated enough playmakers.

Second, Julio Jones is a beast but with a frame and athleticism very similar our own Perriman. For starters, I would mandate that Perriman watches that play and similar plays by other #1 receivers every day till training camp begins so he understands that is what 1st round receivers do for a living!

Perriman is entirely capable of being that receiver for us, but he has to buy in and believe in himself. The coaches have to do a great job in creating plays that help Perriman ease into that role and Joe has to deliver the ball accurately and with timing to him so he can build confidence to begin playing like an elite receiver.

Lastly, to do that and more it is almost imperative that Joe gets together with his existing receivers to develop timing of their routes and chemistry with each one of his receivers well before training camp begins in 2017. Joe has to get good just as much as the receivers we already have on our roster.

Disagree with first part, agree with last part. Ozzie and Steve have said many times that free-agency hijinks are good if you're trying to build a championship team that quickly disintegrates afterwards, but that's not their aim - they want to have a decent shot at making the playoffs every year. And with the exception of the 5-11 season, that's what we've had for a decade: a team that gets close to, or into, the playoffs every year. Even this 8-8 season had us very close.

But that last bit about Joe working more with the receivers - I agree with that. I used to buy into it when the team would say "oh, no, Joe doesn't need that, he's got it figured out" but that approach has clearly not worked. Especially in the case of Perriman, and especially now that #89 is gone, Joe needs to develop rapport with those guys.

I think the case of Hogan illustrates this most clearly. It's not that he is some amazing undiscovered gem, it's more that Brady is the GOAT quarterback, and he and Hogan worked tirelessly until they understand each other - to the point that all Brady has to do is look at him and Hogan will adjust his route at the line. He gets open all the time because Brady tells him where the defense is going to have openings!

Ozzie can't catch a break with you people sometimes:

--If he takes a gamble on a receiver and misses (Clayton) he was an idiot for trying.
--If he picks a solid, no-gamble starter (Stanley) he was an idiot for not trading up to get a more dynamic player like Bosa or Ramsey.
--If he trades out of the first round entirely to accumulate picks, he was an idiot for not staying put and getting round 1 talent.
--If he trades up to get a projected good talent (A Brown), he was an idiot for wasting it on someone we eventually waived and who never started.
--If he doesn't trade up, he was an idiot for it.
--etc.

Isn't it more fair and more accurate to admit that drafting is really difficult, and subject to the same laws of probability as everything else? Ozzie gets love because ON AVERAGE he does better than a lot of other managers, not because he's infallible.

Best kicker in the league? Undrafted rookie. Our starting O-line? A 4th round pick and a 5th rounder in there. Osemele and Williams, late 2 / late 3 got so good we couldn't afford to keep them!

--------

And this idea that Ozzie has been whiffing on first round picks lately is ludicrous.

-Stanley will be a perennial pro bowler if he stays healthy.
-Jimmy Smith was such an important part of our defense, we couldn't win without him.
-Perriman had a couple great catch-and-run plays just like Julio this season, so who's to say he's a bust at this point? Injuries are basically random.
-CJ Mosley is a seriously good player, and is only going to get better.
-Matt Elam sucks, no getting around that one. But everyone else in the league thought he was a great pick at #32, so what you gonna do?

complementary to who exactly? Breshad and Mike Wallace are both speedsters and #2 options at best next year. So is our complementary WR going to be #1? Clarification to this point is in order.

I'm not quite ready to write off Perriman as a #2 speedster. We've all seen what he can do in space on a drag route, and I'd argue that the only reason he didn't catch a bunch more bombs downfield is that Flacco wasn't being protected long enough to throw it to him (plus lack of run game meant heavy coverage in the secondary).

But that's just his raw talent working there. He's had less than a year to develop as a receiver, to build a route tree, and to polish those quick cuts and double moves that make the great #1s who they are.

I'm not a Flacco hater, but I wonder if a good definition for an "Elite QB" is simply one who can make a receiver great. I don't think it's dumb luck that the list of unquestionably elite QBs has some pretty famous matchups.

Or maybe it's just the Ravens having bad luck & bad decisions with the receivers they draft.

To put it another way: What would Breshad Perriman be if he played for the Packers? Not claiming to have an answer to that, BTW.

1 hour ago, bioLarzen said:

As huge an icon as Ed was as a player, and as much as we all know he knows his trade inside and out, the truth is that his stint as a coach in Buffalo hasn't been really great. Ed still has to prove he can be a good NFL coach - and I'm not sure it should be in Baltimore...

Also, I'm not at all sure he's really into the idea of coaching under Harbaugh...

I agree - a good player doesn't often make a good coach.  I think Reed's four main assets as a player were his athleticism, passion, instincts and film study. The film study can help develop good instincts, but it's not like Reed can force his players to watch film at home, during off-days and in the off-season the way he and Ray Lewis used to - that takes passion! Reed can tell people to watch the QB's eyes carefully, but that's probably way easier said than done or else all the free safeties would be notching INTs like #20 used to.  

1 hour ago, jsarrocohome@yahoo.com said:

Williams is so overrated he's not worth top dollar and wagner getting north of 10 mill a year are you kidding me he's a right tackle not left tackle he's good but not top 10

Disagree strongly with first statement. He's been basically the best nose tackle in the league, until our opponents figured out that we had zero edge rush - then they just started doubling and tripling Williams and Jernigan on the inside and QB pressure dropped to zero. I don't think Wagner is worth $10 million a year, but he has played great for us almost the whole time, and we should keep him if we can. Remember that before him we had Michael Oher and that guy was a nightmare for the most part.

2 hours ago, RailBird said:

Although Williams is a beast, we already have a promising backup in Michael Pierce, so it would surprise me if the Ravens offer him a big contract. Trying to keep Wagner might be more realistic since good RTs are harder to find and we don't have a decent backup on the team to replace him.

I agree much more with this - we should try to keep Williams but won't be able to; we should try as hard as possible to keep Wagner.

1 hour ago, b93333 said:

Any plan to motivate Joe to play like he did before he signed his mega-contract and lost all financial incentives? If so I'm sure everyone will be extremely interested.

Not fair to imply Joe isn't giving it his best, especially given the huge injury he sustained. Have you forgotten that, even after that injury, he stayed in the game for two more plays just to try to keep the drive going? Basically with one working leg??

Instead, how about wishing for an offensive line that can give him more than 1.2 seconds to throw the ball, and that can occasionally open up running lanes? And maybe some receivers who can get open and actually catch the ball?

The comments are hard to read during this time of the year. I like Bisciotti, I like the decisions he's made, and the Ravens are one of a half-dozen franchises that consistently makes bids for the playoffs. We can't all get lucky and have a Belichick and a Brady on the team at the same time, for over a decade, and have an aeronautical engineering major as our defensive coordinator.

Do I get frustrated with Flacco's or Harbaugh's decision-making? Sure. Did Ozzie whiff on some high draft picks? Sure. Was it a mistake to let go of (pick name) in free agency? But I have the benefit of hindsight, and those guys didn't: they had to do what felt best at the moment, and none of us out here in fandom can honestly believe we'd have consistently done better.

5 minutes ago, jravens1313 said:

So the logic behind the Washington firing is: (Hey Coach Washington, you are such a great coach and have done such a great job that we are going to fire you, because you can find a better job elsewhere). I am going to call the bluff on this idea. This website gets harder and harder to read every day as the Ravens fluff overtakes reality. (Maybe I am wasting my time here)

Disagree with this. The Ravens (and pretty much every other team) make a habit of not badmouthing people they let go. It's just common sense, PR/HR wise. Would you really prefer a front office that hung their people out to dry by saying "this guy sucks, and we don't want him?" Doesn't promote a good culture, and might even cost them a defamation lawsuit.

5 minutes ago, jravens1313 said:

We definitely can't let Doom go unless we have another capable rusher. The issue the who season on defense was the lack of 2 good rushers due to his injury. Then our issue became the lack of starting caliber corners when Jimmy went down.

Agree with this. People keep clamoring for better defensive backs, but there's not a secondary in the league that can cover all eligible receivers for 10 seconds! Look at what Rodgers did to the Giants secondary.  Put consistent pressure on the QB and INTs, drops and overthrows all become more common - that makes the secondary look a lot better!

Regardless of who they can keep and who gets cut, pass rushers need to be the main focus, followed by center. An offensive line with no glaring holes is key for both our run game and for keeping Joe upright long enough to air it out. Keep Wagner, get a good center and the offensive line will be top 5 in the NFL. And the defense that played stunningly well without ANY help on the outside would be truly nasty if we got some consistent, healthy edge rushers.