Cawtious

3 hours ago, VermontRaven said:

Definitely a solid veteran.  Gives some competition for Lewis/Jensen/Urschel. 

I think this bodes as an indication that Wagner's or Stanley's injuries are going to cost them more time. 

If Stanley is out for a while, I see Lewis there and either Urschel/Jensen at LG

If Wagner is out, Lewis at RT and either Urschel/Jensen at LG

IF both are out, Lewis at LT, Urschel LG, Zuttah C, Jensen RG, Yanda at LT,    Ducasse and Hurst in reserve.....

I don't think Ducasse will see play time in front or Urschel or Jensen at this point.

I think our offensive front will fair better with a more balanced offense.  We need to get our backs some yardage and get back to smashing people in the grill.  Let Joey stretch the field more, and stop being cute trying to "fool" defenses. 

Lewis will be at home at either LG or RT.  Not sure I saw great work at LT from him, but I give guys a pass this week due to all the shifting around.  Alex has a ton of potential and will develop under Castillo.  Ton of upside to him. 

I think Jensen did improve in this game.  I think a run first attack suits his skill set.  He gets downfield and finishes blocks.  More work on his Pass Pro and he will be just fine. 

1 hour ago, OUravensfan said:

You mean Mathmatics doesn't translate to a good O lineman?

You stop running the ball, and all they do is pin their ears back and come for you.  This will change with Trestman gone. 

Thoughts on Jensen's play at RG vs. Redskins?

3 hours ago, fusuymada said:

If he was hurt, like earlier I would buy into his being inactive, but he has been practicing at full bore for over two weeks now and has yet to be active. There is something going on here, what it is ain't exactly clear. But I have a feeling based on previous history with our head coach.

He was active last week and playing ST. 

On ‎10‎/‎6‎/‎2016 at 6:54 AM, Gtown Purple said:

Our slow starts are going to be the death of us. I'm not happy with either the 2 point conversion and 15 yard penalty decisions. Harbiagh tends to chase points to early and that 15 yard penalty wasn't going to make their  field goal much harder. I don't think the Raiders go for on 4th down if we decline the penalty which was on a tackle for loss mind you.

 

Maybe I'm singling out Jensen a little unfairly but his mistakes were pretty darn costly. Both of his holding penalties nullified good gains and one nullified a first down on an eventual 3 and out deep in our end. If I remember correctly it was the drive right before we gave up that punt return to the 6.

He had a hold and a false start.  Hurst had the other hold.

17 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

1. Who won the camp battle for the LG job? That person actually did something to EARN that job. I'll give you a hint... its Alex Lewis.

If you want to be technical about it, I don't even recall Jensen being an option at LG in the preseason. The presumption was that Lewis was competing with Urschel, and then Urschel got injured. As far as I know, Jensen was primarily competing for the Center job, which he also didn't win.

2. No, I'm going off actual words with meaning. There's a gigantic difference between giving something and earning something. "Giving" a player an opportunity, as so many fans advocate, reminds me of a 10 year old little league team, where the coach gives everybody a chance to bat and play shortstop. 

"Earning" an opportunity, as it appears that you are somewhat advocating for (though I'm not sure anymore) means that you actually do something that provides a coach with a reason to put you in the game over somebody else. 

As I referenced earlier, not only has Lewis done nothing to warrant considering putting somebody else in, but Jensen certainly hasn't done anything to warrant the coaches looking at him as somebody who should see more playing time. 

So it would appear the "Jensen bandwagon" is rendered moot until at least one of those things happen.

Right.  Lewis was given the opportunity.  Jensen, not....I thought he EARNED it with is play last year.  Apparently not.

Jensen score two near perfect games at Center in the last two preseason games.  Why didn't he win the starting job?  Not sure.  I thought he did enough to prove it, but I guess because he wasn't facing the 1's from the opposition it inflated his scoring.......we can talk circles around that I am sure.

I AGREE with earning it.  I believe he earned a chance to compete for the starting position at LG.  It didn't happen.

I believe he earned the starting Center job........but I wasn't the guy at practice or the coach that made the decision.  SOOO.... what I have is my opinion, just like you.

Think I've talked this out.  Gonna move on and give you the last word...

5 hours ago, Gtown Purple said:

I don't understand your logic here. I'm not saying Jesen needs to be blamed for Hurst sucking. My point was the left side of our line was the biggest liability in this game. The raiders got pressure regularly on that side. Jensen did get beat multiple times and his penalties really hurt us. His false start killed a drive and his hold wiped out a first down. Additionally the subsequent punt is the one that got returned to our 6 yard line and turned into a touchdown the next play. A first down likely changes that entire sequence of events.

 

Jensen has been here a heck of a lot longer than Lewis so your point about being given opportunity doesn't resonate with me. I'm sure if Jensen would have shown high capability then we wouldn't being playing a 4th round draft pick. The raiders have one of the weaker DT combos in the league. It was a real talking point in alot of the stuff I was reading and hearing on sat radio. Even with that Jensen allowed pressure up the middle. The edge rush is more on Hurst than anybody since he protects the blind side but we all know Hurst isn't great. He's the reason Flacco needed acl surgery. I'm more interested in seeing how Alex does against higher level DT's. Jensen has had his time to prove himself.

Fair enough.  I'd agree if he went in as the C this year and struggled.  That's what he's been practicing and working at this season as the great majority.  Choose a position for him and stop cycling him around the line and I bet his play improves and stabilizes.

6 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

No, don't give him a chance at anything. Make him EARN a chance to have that role.

What, precisely, has Jensen done to EARN the starting LG job? Its a football team, not a charity case. Not about giving... its about taking.

I didn't say he had earned it. I ask you the same question about Lewis.......

You're just keying off of semantics.  Would "opportunity" be a better word or "look" or?  Your reply isn't covering any other base than just that?

Jensen wouldn't still be here if he was a charity case.......none of them would be.

17 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

So basically, Jensen will succeed as long as he has a very good tackle playing next to him, doesn't have to go up against quality rushers, and has gotten many weeks of consecutive play (regardless of performance) under his belt?

Well good luck finding those moments happening very often. I guess since its unlikely any of those things will happen all at the same time, we are on the same page that Jensen shouldn't be given a starting role like some sort of charity case. 

Me personally, I would think the circumstances you described would be the perfect opportunity for Jensen to show his value by playing even better, but I guess we just see things differently in that regard.

Moot point obviously, because Lewis has done nothing to warrant a benching, and Jensen has done nothing to help his cause either.

Twisting my point. That is NOT what I am saying.  I am saying that anyone placed in that situation (struggling player that needs assistance) is not going to shine as brightly, or at all.  I am saying that comparing Jensen's overall ability to Lewis is not apples to apples, because he (Lewis) has not had a poor LT next to him and hasn't been tested by the best.....yet. 

Give Jensen a chance to settle into a position and I think he will be fine.

Jensen was asked to take on a task for which I think the result may have been very close to the same for Lewis......but we'll never know because chances are he'll not be playing next to the worst LT in the league facing one of the best edge rushers around.  At least the odds may be long that he will..........Judge the work based on a game that offers close to the same scenario as to who is better.  I don't think that is unreasonable.   

15 minutes ago, Filmstudy said:

That was a screen pass.  It will be on Jensen's career highlight reel, because he also knocked down a guy at the LoS.

If you're interested my OL article is now out.  Because the grades were so poor, I provided (Q, T) references for the main 4 culprits, so you can follow on Game Pass.

http://russellstreetreport.com/2016/10/05/filmstudy/ravens-raiders-offensive-line-grades/

Thank you for the correction!  I stand corrected !!

I'll play!

1.  Still on the wagon

2.  If we are going to associate poor edge skills by Hurst as a modicum to roast Jensen, let's apply the same consideration to Yanda when Wagner got beat.  Where was Yanda?  Oh.....he was taking care of his man....which flows to #3

3.  Jensen was asked to not only deal with the man in front of him, but had to bolster the efforts of Hurst.  Go back and look at the edge rush on Hurst where he was beaten badly by Mack and was headed for Joe's legs.  Who chipped his man, and backtracked 6 yrds to the inside to stop Mack from wiping Joe out?  Yep.

4.  Jensen played how many snaps with the 1's at LG during camp to prep him and get him into the flow?  Granted he played the position last year for 5 games, but was NEVER given the chance to improve at the position during camp.  He was shifted to Center.  They have not let him settle in.  They keep playing musical chairs with him.  It's not helping things.

5. I saw four bad plays from him.  Two penalties (Hold and False Start) not two holds as others have indicated.  He got badly beat to the inside resulting in a QB hurry and Flacco having to dump the pass to the sideline for an incompletion.  He was beat resulting in a hit on Joe.  Attributing all 11 QB hits to "The Left Side of the Line" is hyperbole.  I watched him look over his shoulder and get caught between dealing with his man and helping a completely overmatched LT on most every pass play.  You cannot parlay Hurst's failures as Jensen's failures.  See #2 once again.  If that's how we're gonna do this, then make sure there is sauce enough for both gooses.

6. Look at some of the people Jensen has had to deal with:  Avril, Mack, the Steelers DT's, Cincinnati..... 6-7 games he's started in.  What has Alex dealt with so far as far as comparative talent from edge rushers and pro bowlers?  I'll reserve judgment on him until he lines up with the poorest LT in the league to his left against pro bowl caliber DL's.  Then I'll decide if he's better or worse or comparative in a similar situation.

Jensen needs to be given a consistent look at a specific position.  Would you expect Wagner to play LT and expect a more effective game from him?  You might, but is it realistic?  Why is it realistic to expect a Yeoman performance from Jensen when he's lined up at LG without sufficient reps (in my mind) this season, placing him next to one of the poorest rated LT's in the game, and then blow his butt out of the water when it goes badly?  Bad reach block....yep.....bad.  Bad penalties?  Yep not good.........blaming him for the woes of the LT......not so much.

Sorry about the long read.  GO RAVENS!!!

19 hours ago, Gtown Purple said:

I think you may be giving Jensen more credit than he is due for the running game.

 

1. We ran more to the right than we did the left.

2. West's biggest runs were to the right of center

3. We pass more than we run so pass blocking comes in more often

4. West is better than Forsett

5. Raiders dline is weak

 

I want to see what happens with stanley and lewis when west and dixon play rb.

Check the downfield block on his longest run.  Who sprung him 15 yrds downfield for additional yardage by cratering #27....yep.

4 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

They chipped him quite often... and Maxx was actually helping out as a blocker for the most part.

I'll need to go back and look at that again.  I was paying most of my attention on the left side during the game, and in the second perusal of the game.  Thanks 22

He deserved that grade from PFF.  He played a much better game yesterday. 

4 hours ago, flynismo said:

Ah yes, good call. After seeing that one hold on Mack, it looks like he has a mean rear naked choke to, probably an 88 if there were a ranking for that.

Go back and watch the game again.  Jensen wasn't flagged for the rear naked choke hold on Mack.  That would be Hurst. 

Even Harbaugh was pissed about the idiotic holding call Jensen drew........and not at Jensen.....at the official.  He was working the side judge mouthing "that was not a hold".  Jensen's hands were inside and on the front.  Marginal call, IMHO

Jensen had four bad plays, to be honest.  Fans see a hold, a false start, and getting beat twice and the player should be flogged at the 50 yrd line.

He spent a majority of the game looking over his shoulder watching Hurst to see if he was handling Mack.  He got over there on a number of occasions.  One time if he hadn't been there, Mack would have hit Joe low.

Overall a bad game for our O-line.  I really wished we would have put a TE on either side to help deal w Mack.  Both Wagner and Hurst just couldn't get him shut down.  We played to their strength.  We needed to run the ball more often.  Joe also held onto the ball a little too long at times.....that doesn't help the O-line keep you clean.

This musical chairs thing with O-line really demolishes the chemistry needed to be successful.  Injuries affected that this week.  Stanley and Lewis will be back this week against a "meh" Redskins team.  It would have been interesting to see how Stanley and Lewis would have faired yesterday.  Mack is a monster....

If one game settles the debate, then it would have been settled last year when he received the highest Oline score in the league for one game.   He is that good.  ?

Sizzle and Perriman

41 minutes ago, ALPHA said:

I would be surprised if we ever sat superior players to drive down their FA value. Maybe we just overrate Jensen and the coaches have a better idea of what he can and can't do, Gino Gradkowski looked like a world beater in limited snaps too.

I think the situation is going to give Jensen the chance to once again prove he is a starter. 

On another note: With his RFA pending, they are going to have to affix a round tender to him in March and see what happens.  Wagner may be penned to a deal and they're going to be limited to what they can offer to keep Jensen. If another team comes calling with a need for a G/C and outbids the Ravens.....he's gone.

Even Filmstudy indicated that Jensen's play in the last two PS games was "near perfect", I believe the quote was.   I would think the other 31 teams took notice of his capabilities.  If he isn't a starter next year, I'd be very, very surprised.....even if that means he is not starting for the Ravens. 

I don't think he's over-rated.....I think he's under-utilized and I am not sure exactly why.  Again, credit where credit is due to the current starters.....

13 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

In theory I'd agree, but no necessarily in this spot. I think the higher paid player gets the benefit of the doubt in the competition, but not necessarily once there's a sample size.

With somebody who you just invested guaranteed long-term money in, I agree with your premise. With a player like Zuttah, who is far, far, far from guaranteed to even be here next year, regardless of performance, I don't think the financial side plays much of a role.

After all, we're extremely likely to be giving more snaps to our two arguably cheapest RBs rather than to Forsett, who certainly costs more. 

I can agree with your points.  But Zuttah has been paid for THIS season and quite well.  Stands to reason that you want to get your money's worth if you can.

7 minutes ago, Rav'n Maniac said:

I try to respect everyone's opinion all the time. This is yours, that's fine.

Just to clarify, you say that because a player has more experience and the team is paying them a larger amount of money that they are entitled to play, even though their performance is not meeting the teams expectations of the position.

OK

I did not say they were entitled. Those are your words.  I believe it does factor into the decision, all things being close to equal.  No backup player is a complete lateral move.....each player has tendencies and abilities that may be different than the player in front of them.  People may want to see Jensen because he is perceived as being a better run blocker.  It doesn't mean that he is a better overall choice right now than Zuttah.  But in considering who is the starter, the money being paid is a consideration that could tip the nod to start in that player's favor.

56 minutes ago, Rav'n Maniac said:

First and foremost, I never stated that Jensen would be an upgrade. They're your words! I used his name only because he "is" the backup center as listed on the depth chart.

To be honest, I could care less who they would decide to use. The important factor is they need to make an effort to fix the problem. Obviously, they have enough tape on Zuttah to know he is not the answer considering he hasn't made any progression in rectifying his issues to this point.

There is certainty that they can't "upgrade" the position unless they try someone else, in real game situations, since game situations is all they have left.

I agree that they see 100% of the things I/we don't see and i'm sure they didn't foresee his veteran play dropping off as much as it has. But, if he is our best/only option to continue, we are in big, big trouble.

Look man, I only want our players to play well, win more and remain healthy. Nothing more, nothing less. If my fandom offends you, that's your problem, not mine.

 

If you invested a couple of million dollars in a player for the season, vs. 600k, what do you think the front office wants?  Sit the multimillion dollar player for an ERFA?  I think this has some bearing on who is starting at C.  Jensen was a center most of his FB career.  He moved to Tackle only when he hit college.  I think he will be the Ravens center moving forward.  They've not let him settle at any position since he got here, so it doesn't surprise me that they view him as more valuable as a backup, because he can help them in at least four positions if need be.  His stock is on the rise, and I believe that when he is an RFA at the end of this year, the Ravens will look to lock him up. 

I think no one had chance to dethrone Zuttah because of the experience and the money they are paying him vs. what they are paying Urschel and Jensen.

JMHO.

1 hour ago, sizzlingdoom said:

LOL. ummmm yeah...not even gonna respond to this

Oh, but you did.....

8 hours ago, CaliRavenFan said:

I might be wrong but im pretty sure it was Jensen that came in for Alex and not Urschel.. 

Urschel was a healthy scratch.  Jensen is a run game mauler and will likely be our LG if Lewis is still in concussion protocol.  M&T Bank on it

18 hours ago, HomeoftheBRAVENS said:

 

"Ryan Jensen filled in for Lewis in the fourth quarter Sunday."

 

I didn't notice that Lewis left the game.No wonder our pass protection fell off in the fourth quarter.

He was in for 10 plays.  Last two series.  I didn't notice any issue from his side.  Wagner was beat, causing the deflection and interception.  Beyond that, I didn't see Jensen's appearance or Lewis's absence creating a drop off.