Maryland

I will say our OL will be arguably the worst it's ever been in like the past decade if Stanley, Yanda, and Wagner are all out. Then you'll be looking at Lewis, Urschel, Zuttah, Jensen, and Hurst... good luck Joe! 

/Actually we might have sported an OL of McKinnie, Shipley, Gradkowski, Yanda, and Oher in 2013 if my memory serves... that might be worse, but probably not.

15 hours ago, OUravensfan said:

Mike Wallace has been disappointing with some of his drops to be honest, he's still one of our better WRs, but he's demonstrating what I already knew about him, not a true #1 complete WR that can make the tough contested catches around the full route tree. The comeback route dropped on 3rd down was AWFUL. The fourth down drop was bad, but it was a tough catch and he was hit immediately and maybe a slight miscommunication with Flacco leading him and Wallace wanting to sit in the zone.

I hate losing.

But anyone who watched Wallace throughout his career knew he didn't have good hands. He has always been a body-catcher who short-arms everything away from his body. For this reason, I'm not really upset when he drops a pass--low expectations, Joe knows he has to hit him in the chest to make a catch. I actually expect more from Perriman and Moore because I've seen them make some nice hands-catches when they concentrate on the ball. 

1 hour ago, PurpleCity5 said:

Yeah, lack of pass rush is hurting the secondary very badly. I probably shouldn't bring this up but looking at McPhee's contract and judging by how our pass rush has been, if there were no injury concerns for McPhee and we ended up matching that contract, then it would have totally been worth it. I think we got a great situational pass rusher in Doom, but we're badly missing a 2 down OLB. We need a guy who can just rush the set the edge but rush the passer when in 1st or 2nd down pass plays.  

If it weren't for the pass rush, our defense might be up there with Minnesota and Denver. 

Except McPhee does have major injury concerns, and we really dodged a bullet by not re-signing him. 

A little more balanced with the run, but still a good amount of passing. Pass to setup the run, lots of short timing routes, occasional deep shots after establishing the run and short-passing game, maybe more zone-blocking and stretch as the season progresses.

I'm hoping Mornhinweg gets Flacco under center more and sets up more downhill running and play-action passing. 

Sheldon Price going on IR disappoints me (though he barely played vs Wash., he contributed on ST weekly iirc). I really liked the way our secondary played vs Wash., outside of Jimmy who just had a bad game by his standards. Maybe they can still use Wright as a #2 CB who plays both outside and inside, since I'd rather give him snaps over Wright no matter where he's lined up. 

4 hours ago, AppStRavenfan said:

I seriously doubt we're even considering cutting Hester, we have literally no one better to return kicks, Steve is too old to be pulling double duty, Webb has a lost a step with all those injuries, and no one else on the team really has any experience there. Hester hasn't been Hester but he hasn't been anywhere near as bad as some make him out to be, he had a great return vs. the Redskins only to have it called back on a penalty.

Agreed, there is little to no chance they cut Hester.

However, I wouldn't rule out having Webb back to fair-catch punts, since Hester seems to struggle with decision-making in this part of the game. Too often has Hester eschewed a fair catch, only to let the ball roll for 10-15 yards inside the 5. 

That's too bad. I really liked how our corners played vs Wash with Wright out. Now we're probably going to have to go back to more Wright... sigh.

22 minutes ago, sflegend89 said:

Demaryius Thomas had the highest drop rate in the NFL last year. I can live with drops if the overall production is there. 

Only time will tell, as others have pointed out we knew he was a high upside project when we drafted him. After a year long layoff and missing yet another camp I'm not sure what people expected. He's certainly flashed what he's capable of but is still just learning tne NFL game so the volume and polish just isn't there yet. Trestman's insufferable play calling certainly didn't help his cause either. 

DT is a pretty good comparison actually. If he turns out that good, it'd be a success. 

18 hours ago, Tru11 said:

yawn.

at some point we need to stop blaming the OC only and also look at the players and if you want to blame the coaches then have a look at all of them and not just the 1 that is easy to target.

O-line is a mess, well who is the o-line coach?
WR are dropping passes, well who is the wr coach?
QB has sloppy mechanics, well who is the QB coach?

most of the issues the ravens have are pretty much been around over numerous OC.

If some passes where caught we wont be complaining about the OC.
if the o-line could block for longer then a second we wont be complaining about the OC.

doubt an OC can come in and magically make the o-line become that much better or have the wrs hang on to balls better.

seems people forget that positions coaches also have a job as well they should be doing....

I think that's kind of the point I was trying to make: there were many problems with execution on the field that not even the best OC can fix just through coaching (though a more balanced run/pass ratio should help).

At this point, the fans and players got what they wanted in firing Trestman. It's time for the players to execute. There's no excuses left. OL needs to block better; WRs need to get separation and actually catch the ball; Flacco needs to improve his mechanics and accuracy--these things aren't absolved just because Trestman was fired.

17 hours ago, Purple_City39 said:

If I'm not mistaken, Marty still ran a WCO style so the short/quick passes and checkdowns likely won't stop, but you have to assume he won't ignore the run like Marc did.

This is a point I think a lot of people are ignoring. Like Reid's WCO, there are probably going to be a lot of short passes and pass-first sets of downs. Hopefully he keeps it more balanced than Trestman while also managing to take more shots downfield, but I'm not going to be surprised if it's still a frustrating offense to watch, especially considering Mornhinweg can only change but so much with the playbook mid-season. It would not surprise me in the least if they are looking for a new OC in the off-season (though it also wouldn't surprise me if they stick with Mornhinweg if he does even just okay, since he's a Harbaugh guy). 

I'm wondering what to expect at ILB next week, assuming Mosley is out with a hamstring. 

They'll probably primarily use McClellan next to Orr and maybe mix in more dime, but maybe we'll see some Correa. It's going to be a rough afternoon covering RBs out of the backfield if McClellan is placed in coverage situations.

7 hours ago, Cillmatic said:

Bench Za'darius, put Judon back in. 

I mean, Za'Darius clearly does nothing in the pass rush unless it's a coverage pressure/sack resulting from his endless effort. I know Harbaugh likes to punish guys for not contributing to special teams, but with how bad our ST unit is already, how much worse could it really get? Leave Carter inactive and activate Judon--then you'll actually have a pass-rusher who is capable of getting instant pressure on the QB. 

I was admittedly bearish on Perriman as a prospect because he had drop problems in college and didn't seem to play like someone with 4.2 speed. Plus I questioned if he would ever become capable of running a full playbook (same problem as Torrey). 

I think he has shown the ability to make difficult hands-catches, but he still struggles with concentration drops. This makes him hard to rely on, but he's not as bad as Greg Little or Limas Sweed, who had brick hands. Maybe he can get it fixed, like Brandon Marshall, who was terrible with drops early in his career before becoming pretty reliable. Perriman doesn't play like someone with 4.2 speed (I would take Wallace to win a foot race in pads), but he's still a deep threat for sure. I do question his ability to get separation, however (why has he struggled with that so far?) I like that he has a little more ability to fight for a jump ball, unlike Torrey (whom I just saw do nothing to break-up an INT for Gabbert a week ago lol). And I think Perriman answered some questions I had about learning a full playbook. He isn't just out there running post routes, screens, and slants (like, say, Cordarelle Patterson, who is too dumb to learn a playbook), which is a good sign.

So, although I don't think he'll ever live up to first-round hype, I think he can be a good receiver who makes big plays and drops occasional balls. I'd like to see them draft another WR next year, someone who can get separation reliably, make tough catches, and get YAC like Steve Smith, since that's the type of player who would compliment Perriman's unreliable big-play potential the best. 

I'm not going to fall head over heels for Mornhinweg just yet.

Although history suggests his pass/run ratio is more balanced than Trestman, he was criticized for calling too many short passes with Det and NY, which is one of the problems Trestman seemed to have. Andy Reid passes to setup the run, and he has a tendency to inexplicably abandon the run at times, which is worth mentioning because Reid was Mornhinweg's mentor in Philly. Hopefully Mornhinweg ushers in an offensive renaissance in the wake of Trestman's firing, but I'm not going to get my hopes up--he can change the offense only so much from what was already in place anyway. 

/I do really like the point @The Raven made about chemistry between Castillo and Mornhinweg though; that could be a huge benefit for effecting smooth, immediate change in a struggling OL

6 hours ago, gtalk12 said:

Once Stanley comes back, I think things will change. It's clear, at least in my eyes, that Ronnie was worth the pick....He is really good 

Agreed. And I think if Alex Lewis hadn't been dealing with a concussion, he would have played LT instead of Hurst week 4. 

I'm actually cautiously optimistic about the future of our OL, at least at the tackle positions, since Alex Lewis seems like the RT of the future, and Stanley the LT of the future. We just need to address the LG position and C position for next year. 

Also, a couple questions I have:

1) How did Wagner get hurt? What was his injury?

2) Who lined up primarily as the outside CB opposite of Jimmy? Tavon Young? 

Just about everything bad there is to say about Trestman, Harb's fake field goal, Perriman's drops, the OL, Mosley's touchback, and Jimmy getting beat all day has been said.

However, I have to say the clock management was pretty bad. Harbaugh's emotional timeout after the Mosley touchback should never have been called. The timeout with the clock stopped at :20 was utterly moronic. And the offense had no urgency getting into formation with ~1 min left (took 12 seconds to hike the ball after the previous play was over before the final set of downs). Horrible clock management. You'd think a team designed to win every game on the final drive would be better at running a 2-min offense. 

Not sure what the situation is with Wagner, but if Stanley and Lewis are our OTs, I'll be feeling more comfortable. I'm not automatically chalking this up for a loss; the Giants really aren't a great team. They seem like a solid 8-8 squad, same as us. 

7 hours ago, Nightman said:

Maryland should have hired John as head coach, just think having a Harbowl against Michigan every year would a hot ticket in either College Park or Ann Arbor.

Whoa there, it's not my job to go around hiring people

9 hours ago, PurpleCity5 said:

I want to see Judon, we should have seen enough of Za'darius, he's been very ineffective in the pass rush. 

Yeah, it's a shame Judon is getting benched because he can't contribute on ST. We are sitting our most talented pass-rusher every week... They really need to find a spot for Judon. Our edge-rush is really underwhelming, and it gets just so much more exciting with Judon in there, since he's clearly a handful for OTs to stop, unlike Z-Smith or even Doom lately.

Also, although he's not a rookie, Perriman really hasn't shown me much to be excited about. Even the most basic stuff (catching the football) seems to be difficult for him, plus he doesn't seem to get good separation. 

5 hours ago, jazz1988 said:

I understand that but i think the players have to blame themselves as well. I saw dropped passes and Flacco not having enough time to throw the ball. I think Marc Trestman should have ran the ball more but I also think players left plays on the field. I do agree when I look at this offense it looks like there isn't identity and it just seems lost at times.

I'm honestly surprised the debate over Trestman is so one-sided. Usually there's a contingency of fans defending the coach.

I mean, looking at the offense as a whole, I still can't put all of the blame on Trestman. The OL came into this game missing Stanley, and with Wagner going out in the 2nd half, it became even more jumbled. Protection wasn't great between this game and last, and without great protection, it's harder to throw it deep, since deeper plays take time to develop. Plus, it seems like no one on this team other than Steve Smith can get separation, and no one except Steve and Pitta can make a tough catch in traffic. Perriman has had at least 1 drop per game, Wallace short-arms/body-catches everything, Moore has drop problems, and Aiken can't get separation to make a clean catch. Plus our run game was weak to start the season because Zuttah and Forsett were struggling, putting even more burden on Joe at the time, though the run game has improved since then.

So, I think you have to put some of the blame on the players for not executing. Anyone who wants to scapegoat Trestman for everything that is going wrong is being irrational. 

Having said all of that, I recognize that Trestman is definitely at fault for some amount of what has gone wrong. Abandoning the run is inexcusable, especially when the game is close, running is effective, and it would help mitigate the problems with pass-protection. The dink and dunks are far too frequent, though I wonder if this is more a factor of people not getting open downfield coupled with pressure (would need to watch all-22). Any penalty on offense kills the drive because we cannot possibly pick up penalty yardage + first down yardage with our dink-and-dunk style, and it seems our offense generates a lot of holding penalties, at least the past few games. 

I'm hoping Harbaugh and the players can have a discussion and work themselves through their problems without firing Trestman--that's probably what they'll do and then re-assess near the BYE. It's unrealistic to expect Trestman to be fired this early imo.

5 hours ago, Inqui said:

I don't even mind playing dink and dunk either. You just have to keep moving the chains, and we're not even getting that done. I can't say I'd be opposed to a change in one way or another.

I have no problem with dink and dunk either--that's what offenses like the Patriots and Andy Reid do. However, they also use the run effectively and take a deep shot down-field every now and then for big gains. Trestman seems to be too reliant on dump-offs and screen passes. 

He's an emotional guy, for better or for worse. We saw last year how his competitive spirit still had the remaining guys left on the roster playing hard even at the end of a meaningless season, and I don't doubt that that competitive spirit gets the team amped for big games vs Pitt and NE. However, sometimes Harbaugh will let his emotions get the best of him and make poor decisions here and there. When it works (like that time he went on 4th down on his own side of the field @ Miami two years ago) it's called being gutsy. When it doesn't work (like the accepted penalty last week or the fake kick this week) it just looks dumb. You have to take the good with the bad with Harbaugh. 

I actually like that he doesn't call-out his players and coaches publicly and essentially "lies" to the press/fans in the postgame, since if you're calling-out guys publicly, then you're setting yourself to lose the locker room. I respect him for being able to hold-in his emotions after the game, assuming he talks with players and coaches in-person about what needs to be improved (Trestman abandoning the run, for example). 

Today they allowed a punt return TD; last week they allowed a punt return to the 6 yd line; the week before that Rashad Greene had a long punt return that later resulted in a touchdown. Aiken was the goat last week, missing a crucial tackle and getting the fair-catch interference. This week it seemed like Waller was rusty, taking a poor angle on the punt return. Plus there was that block in the back on Hester's return to ruin good field position (a ticky-tack call though).

I'm mainly just venting, but it's still something that must improve. 

Perriman had bad hands in college, and he has had at least 1 drop in each game so far (2 drops @Jax). Plus he doesn't seem to get separation very easily, which is surprising since he's supposed to be fast. He really hasn't shown me anything so far in his brief career, though his career is still young.

I'm mixed on him now, where before I used to defend him.

On the one hand, our OL was struggling to pass-protect, and our receivers were not getting open--there was a lack of execution from the players.

On the other hand, our run-game was tearing-off chunks at a time--why abandon this? And why can we not throw more deep balls? (pass protection, lack of separation, Perriman's drop, I know). Seems like every pass in the 2nd half was inside of the sticks until the final drive--was there really no one open downfield? 

I don't know... I guess I want Trestman to make this offense good despite the talent he has to work with, which is unreasonable. 

You really have to throw the ball into Wallace's body for him to catch it, since he's going to short-arm anything away from his body.