Bltravens

I found Harbaugh's answer to the Elam question presented during the press conference very interesting. John was very direct and quick in his answers about many things, but when asked about Elam and his reduced snaps and performance, he was very reticent. I saw a lot of thinking and carefully picking words. I am not sure about others, and I am not trying to be biased so if you (whoever reads this) think I am seeing things that aren't true, please, call me out on it. I'm not being sarcastic. It's just I want to put out my observation here and I can absolutely be wrong, and I accept that. 

 

Harbaugh almost looked disappointed when asked about Elam. He stuttered quite a bit, was going to say "he didn't---" and then cut himself off. He said he hasn't been consistent, and got more consistent in the "past 6-7 weeks," the time after he was theoretically benched. Said he always practices well. I found these responses interesting, and John's body language wasn't the same as other players when he talks about them. Usually you'll see Harbaugh's face light up like a kid when he talks about players, but with Elam I saw a lot of disappointment, as I said earlier. 

 

I now question whether Harbaugh is also concerned. I think he might be. Again, if you disagree, please call me out. I have no problem with that and I would welcome a differing opinion. 

Man when Harbs has pretty much thrown the towel in on you as a player you know you're fricked.

I know hindsight is agonizing for a fan/ exec but our 2013 1st and 2nd round picks were poor and really not in line with our defense scheme. Have not given up on brown but I am not at all impressed with Matt Elam.

Just think, here is what some fans were suggesting in the 2013 draft

Trade out of first

2-Keenan Allen wr ( was the closest wr coming out of college similar to bolden who got us the SB)

2-TJ McDonald SS ( big safety to cover big TE who give us tough mismatches)

Get extra 3rd

I still like Brown and think he played fairly well in preseason.  Brown and Mosley can still be a tandem, just that D.Smith is still playing at a ridiculously high level.  

Zero trade value.

Below zero trade value.

He's somehow gotten worse the longer he's in the NFL...which makes no sense. That missed tackle on Amendola was awful.  Amendola is as soft and fragile as they come at WR.  Elam should have annihilated Amendola and driven him back face up.  Know who you're tackling.  He went at Amendola like he was Marshawn Lynch.

I have a feeling McPhee will be the next Adalius Thomas. Some bad team will sign him to be the guy but without guys like Suggs, Ngata, and Doom occupying so much attention he won't do much. Maybe he proves me wrong but right now I think the Thomas comparison is spot on.

Maybe not a bad comparison, though ADs athleticism was of the freak variety.  McPhee is the only guy we've had since AD though that can rush inside and outside while being effective at both.  Like I said before, it remains to be seen if he can do it for 16 games as a starter, but if I'm him I look to go to a team that has some talent in the front.  Not many guys can be stand alone guys like Suggs was for a good 6 years.

We need to keep mcphee no matter what. 

 

Im still p.o.ed that we had to lose Cory Redding ( the dude is still balling ) and another guy we lost that im mad about but understand because of the price tag was D.Ellerbee.    ( Still mad at Harbs for keeping him off the field for almost 2 yrs, that Dog house is for real)

I think so as well, but someone is going to pay McPhee big time and I'll be happy for McPhee and pissed we lose him lol.  He's incredibly disruptive both inside and outside.  It remains to be seen if he can play 40 snaps in a game for 16 weeks but his skill and technique is undeniable.

Go see Fury.  The cinematography is right up there with Band of Brothers or Saving Private Ryan.  You'll feel uncomfortable in more than a few places during the movie, which is a compliment for a WW2 movie done correctly.  There's few things wrong with the movie, outside of the end battle scene.  But it is well done.

Why do you guys even bother with this topic every 6 months?  Tyrod won't see the field unless Flacco gets hurt because the guys who make millions of dollars every year and have forgotten more about football than we even know, made the decision that Flacco was a better QB.

Frankly I'm more inclined to trust them.  Considering they've done a pretty damn good job over the last 5 years.

***DISCLAIMER***

 

If he was in his prime, I'd totally trade a first for him. You wouldn't get a better WR in the draft

You wouldn't get a better receiver over an entire decade outside of Megatron.

First off, you are assuming that Andre is about to fall of a cliff. He's been one of the most productive WRs in the NFL for the past 2 years. He has several good years left. I would take Johnson over Torrey any day of the week. He's one of the best WRs to ever play in the NFL,  while Torrey is a fast dude who is not a complete player. 

 

Your second point is a stronger argument for why Torrey will likely resign, but we let Ellerbe go when we had no one to replace him. The only player behind Kruger was a Upshaw, who had shown nothing as a pass-rusher. We didn't have anyone proven to replace Graham or Jones either, yet they still walked.

I'm assuming at the end of his 3 years left on his contract he's going to fall off.  That's the point I'm trying to make.  He's not going to fall off before the first 2 of those 3 years.  His 3 year and final one of the contract he'll be 35.  I don't think he's going to be an impact player anymore.  For the next 2 years definitely, maybe the 3rd, AJ is obviously a far better WR than Torrey is.

With Upshaw though we at least had a guy that was playing on a regular basis behind Kruger.  He played more snaps than Kruger that year I believe.  The Ellerbe walk was a tough one to swallow, especially with Lewis retiring that year.  I think secretly they were hoping for McClain to be ready to go for the start of the next year.  Even though he wasn't.  With Graham we don't have anyone to exactly replace him, but Webb will slide back to the nickel with healthy knees again and moving Chykie, or whomever, outside will be better for the team than having an untested guy play the nickel.

Some of that money would have to be taken on by Houston for sure. On the other hand if Torrey stays in Baltimore, he's going to be given a lot of money. It might not be want Andre makes in the last couple years of his contract, but it's going to be a lot. I'd rather have Andre at a slightly higher number than Torrey. If you also weigh the possibility that Torrey might not resign here it makes the trade that much more appealing for the Ravens.

I still don't see the trade off.  At the end of Torrey's contract we have Andre for only 2 more years.  There's no chance Torrey gets over 10 a year based on how he's played in the NFL.  Then you have to weigh having Andre be a shell of himself while Torrey continues his current trend for the next 7 years.  As a GM you have to continually look forward.  Torrey has far more value to a team after the next 3 years than Andre does.  Especially knowing how bad we are at evaluating WR talent.  I think Ozzie would rather have 1 WR spot locked down for the next 6 odd years than for 3 years.

What about Ellerbe, Kruger, Jones, Graham, Reed. The list goes on and on.

Players leave to take more money. If you think otherwise you are being incredibly naive.

We had guys behind them capable of taking over.  If we had a gaping hole at DT or OLB we wouldn't have let them go.  Especially if Kruger was a 3down player we wouldn't have let him go.  We have no one under neath Torrey.  No one remotely close to taking over.

People don't understand a. how good Johnson is and b. Torrey is a free agent after 2014.

Torrey as a free agent is going to get more than the 45mil owed to Johnson in the next 3 years?

Thats the part you're overlooking.  We're going to actually be able to keep Torrey and not gut 2 other starters to keep him on the roster.  Johnson is obviously a better receiver in every way, but you're essentially giving up 3 (odd) guys, including Torrey, to even get Johnson under the cap.

Rice is definitely not your prototypical ZBS runner. 

He's not even your non prototype that you can work with.  He needs a power scheme with Gs pulling or FBs blasting straight ahead.  He hasn't the patience for zone blocking.

Pierce stays healthy all season and Im fairly certain they go 50/50 and Pierce becomes the bellcow in the playoffs.

You're a fool if you trade Torrey Smith for Andre Johnson in the long term.  Which is what a GM is supposed to do.  Johnson will be in Steve Smith's position in 3 years whereas Torrey still has at least 7 years with which is speed will remain.  Not only that we're supposed to take on a 12mil cap hit this year, a 16 next year and 14 the next?

You can't be serious.  With how QB is these days Flacco will play until he's like 37 and still be a better than average QB because his arm strength won't deteriorate to poo arm levels.  You'd essentially be reverting back to our Derrick Mason WR days and bringing in old veterans to stop gap while we hope we can draft a WR that's even half decent.  Which has happened once, Torrey Smith.

We paid 120 million for a 19 TD, 22 INT quarterback.

 

For comparison Tom Brady with no receivers early in the year threw 25 TD's and 11 INT. 

Granting that Joe Flacco is not Tom Brady, he was still overvalued by Oz.

 

Contrary to what many believe on this board, Oz is in hot water and primarily it pertains to the Flacco contract.

 

Flacco has limitations. He is a "System Guy" and that's another reality that slipped by Oz these last couple years.

 

Flacco has won a Championship and can win others if the Raven's surround him with the proper personnel.  This is another reality that is clearly lost upon Oz because he has not taken the actions to "protect" his Flacco investment.

 

Flacco can get the job done with the right tools. Oz on the other hand just doesn't get it any more and clearly is heading the wrong direction again with the offense.

 

Hopefully this is the last year we have to endure the missteps.

Ozzie pretty much has a lifetime pass as GM in Baltimore.

So we didn't take the guy who could start immediately because...you know...why????? Who exactly is going to play FS until the project guy is ready - if he ever is.

You're talking like Dix is an insane playmaker.  He's not.  We grabbed a guy in the first round who is going to be in the middle of every play and will eventually call the defense.  Dix is a supporting level player.  He's not the "it" guy you're making him out to be.

I like the pick. Good coverage guy

I like the pick too.  Good value in the third, he knows how to play the middle of the field.  Elam is now confirmed around the LOS.  We need to remember that Elam was the guy taken to be the playmaker of the safeties.  We just need a guy who can make reads and keep guys from chunking plays on us.

Weaknesses

Could stand to bulk up and get stronger. Inconsistent tackler -- arrives out of control, does not always see what he hits and will miss some tackles seeking the knockout blow. Is built like a cornerback, sustained a concussion as a senior and durability could be an issue given his aggressive playing style. Minimal production on the ball -- was not a playmaker. Has average hands and leaves some INTs on the field. Poor short-shuttle time (7.35 seconds) at the combine.

 

...but most important...

 

Has starter-caliber ability if he can improve his ball skills,

 

Which means he is a project, not an impact player. Not impressed when we could have had Clinton-Dix because we NEED a starter.

 

Dix and Mosley aren't comparable players.  Mosley is a far superiour player.

can Brooks start?  He wasn't on my board

Immediately?  Id be surprised.  But he's what they're looking for in a FS.

Sorry but I have never bought this garbage of letting a vet "Teach" a rookie, it rarely if ever actually happens like that, because honestly who wants to train their replacement? IMO unless you can land a Ray lewis, Kuchely,Willis, or another top player at ILB you can find talent much later, as evidenced by the many UDFA that have come to Baltimore and thrived at ILB ( scott, mcclain, bynes, ellerbe).

Scott was the exception not the norm.  Bynes is a plug, McClain played like he was an UDFA, zero impact plays.  Ellerbe would have been a 2nd or 3rd rounder but he was hurt and had character issues at Georgia.  Ellerbe's talent was never in question.

I for one am happy I don't have to watch guys like McClain or Bynes play ILB anymore.  We'll actually have guys that can play the position at a high level.

I dont think mosley is much better than brown coming out, in fact I think I had brown higher. I imagine he will have similar issues to brown at the next level initially.

Mosley is a much better LB.  The shedding ability alone sets him apart from Brown.

Watching that video of Manziel makes me wonder if Cleveland thinks he can play like Roethlisberger and that they forget Roethlisberger is like 260 and still barely plays full seasons, yet Manziel is 205.  On top of that he won't have Evans saving the day because he's a foot taller than everyone else in the secondary lol.

Drafting Mosley because he's an impact player is good and all.....only if he will actually play. Using our first round pick on a guy that will be behind 2 guys already doesn't sound amazing to me.....its not like we could of used a safety...wide receiver.....corner, more guys that we thought were gonna be gone were still there

He's going to start from Day 1.  Bynes has seen his last down on defense, Brown will see time in the nickel and Mosley will play beside Smith from the start.

This is the first Day 1 starter we've taken who will start because of talent alone since Grubbs.

Another thing people are overlooking I think is the leadership standpoint for Mosley.  This is the guy who will run the defense when Smith is gone and the guy who will be that kind of "it" guy for the defense when Ngata and Suggs are gone.  When Suggs leaves there's going to be a real void from those nasty defenses of the past.  Mosley has the ability to keep it going and have teams be wary of where he is on the field.

they could, and I think they will, slide him inside

If they do that would alter how I think about him.  Much the same of how I saw Timmons out of college.

So explain to me how a smaller (weight) and weaker player in CJ mosley will not get swallowed up as a Inside Linebacker....

Smaller weight by 2 pounds?  I didn't say he won't get swallowed but the difference, again, is positionally.  Shazier is required to hold the edge.  Shazier get's swallowed up and the whole edge is gone and the HB has an easy gain,  Mosley gets swallowed up and its in the middle of the field, theres still 3 or 4 other guys there to make the play.  Shazier has to hold that edge or the defense is screwed unless the safety makes an incredible play.

This is the same reason we let Kruger go and why he was never a full time starter.  He couldn't hold the edge.

 LOL CJ is 6'2 234 at ILB........

 

Shazier ran a 4.37 not a 4.68...

Shazier put up 25 reps not 15....

Shazier has a 42" verticle not 35"

Shazier has a 6.91 three cone not 7.30

 

Shazier led the Big-10 in tackles with 144, 3rd best in all the NCAA for 2013, and 11th all-time in the Big-10 for his career.

 

In 2012, Shazier was in the Big-10 top-10 for "passes defended" (12). That's a category normally reserved for top CBs, but Shazier jumped up in there...while he also led the Big-10 in TFLs and was 3rd in total tackles. Shazier is 'off the charts' as a performer.

 

 

s 2 / 238

Two ENTIRELY different positions.  If a guy with those measurables is playing ILB he's at the wrong position.  Besides, Shazier will have to gain weight to play the position which will impact his speed considering his size.  Shazier plays the position essentially in the same vein as Antwan Barnes, just with an even better burst.  Both guys get and will get swallowed in the run game and both rely completely on speed to get to the passer.  Will Shazier be a good football player? Yes.  But you're coming at us like he's going to be a 15+ sack guy.