Bltravens

I didn't like how Trestman didn't throw any HB screens.  The most effective pay to pull back guys just pass rushing without any semblance of responsibilities is hammering them with a few HB screens.  Ware wasn't even reading keys or anything yesterday, just blowing around the edge and it was single high safety for an absurd amount of snaps.

The last one was perceived as more of a calf muscle tear too as it occurred so high up on the achilles.  If this is a full on traditional achilles tear he's done for an entire calendar year, not just a football season.

FYI, I think I saw Mosley wearing the green dot (communication helmet)

 

 

not daryl smith? thats pretty odd..not knocking mosley..little surprised about that

Mosley most definitely had the comm helmet on.  I saw that as well.  Mosley is the real deal, kid is gross.

How do the Browns cut Phil Taylor?  Especially in the AFC North on the last year of a rookie deal.  Unless his knee was shot after the scope he had last year Taylor is a good NT.

Hoping for it, Ravens Nation. Kinda annoys me how the Steelers find all these late round gems at receiver. We're due to find one too.

Exactly what I've been thinking for the last few years.  One of these days our kid has to figure it out eventually.

Like other have said.  This is a great signing by Ozzie in terms of length and money.  Really not much of a loss if he messes up again in terms of cap space (losing the talent will hurt) and you get a talented guy at a premier position in the NFL for very cheap.

i've kinda had it with webb

 

hasn't practiced for 2 weeks..

 

perriman clearly has a serious injury. its coming close to a full month. 

 

Maybe we should just rest the whole team for a week and just do some light stretching and cardiovascular workouts..

 

whatever harbs has put this team through isn't really working as players are dropping like flies on a consistent basis.

Hoping thats what Harbaugh is doing with Perriman, just flat out rest.  All he has to do is run fast in a straight line to be of use, maybe a few slants, to pull defenses back.  Webb's knees are shot, he has no juice left in them anymore, no burst left.  

 

That never ending talk of the safety experiment might as well start now.  I'd rather watch Melvin grow and Arrington in the slot full time than Webb 10 yards off slowly back pedalling.

My only issue with the 06 one was that it was Adalius that made it all tick.  Scott was a one dimension run stuffer and after Ray tore his hamstring he couldn't run like he could anymore, which had made him grossly feared.  Suggs was just becoming the all around player he became from 08-present.  He was only 23 in 06.

 

The 00 one had a perfect balance I think from a football purest perspective.  Though comparing a 43 and a 34 LB corps is tough.

Boulware, Ray and Sharper.  Sharper is the only defensive player to leave the Ravens and still excel.

That's pretty sloppy though...especially for a 22 year old kid.

Feel like you've all forgotten David Pittman...the only guy I've seen ever flat out pull the plug playing on the field.  He was awful.  At least Elam doesn't do that on plays.

That and the fact that he seems to have a different throwing motion for every throw.

He is definitely the David Cone of football.

Again you are still telling me what Ozzie would never do. How do u know without having direct access to Ozzie? Your value of a player and a draft pick isn't Ozzie's. You continue to talk from "perception" of you don't draft this type of player here or there. Say's who? Where is it written that you don't draft a OLB at 35 who you feel is capable of being everything u want in a SOLB and rotate him with a great pass rusher? The ultimate goal of the draft is to add players who can add enough value to your team that they can be important parts of helping your team win a champion. Was Upshaw viewed as a 3 down player, i would say yes and for the most part he is a 3 down player because he slides inside and helps push the pocket and in a lot of cases covers which Doom struggles with. The notion that Upshaw is just a 2 down player is false.

 

Important cogs to be filled early, where theres a role that needs to be filled which Upshaw certainly does.  However he was viewed as a 3 down player at OLB and that is not a role he fills, especially when paired with high draft position.  I have maintained this point from the get go, fills a role, but not the final evolution of what Upshaw was projected to be by the FO.

The biggest reason why Upshaw is rotating at strong side OLB is because Ozzie got a rare opportunity to add one of the best pass rushers in the NFL. That's a no brainer. If Doom wasn't here Upshaw would be doing exactly what he's doing now but he'd also be adding 5-6 sacks per season imo. But in no way would he be what Suggs or Doom is because that's not what he was drafted for.

 

While this has merit in and of itself with Dumervil, it is worth mentioning that Upshaw lost a gross majority of pass rush snaps to McPhee and all of them in games that mattered/playoff games that wasn't in mop up duty.

So if Upshaw wasn't drafted to be a dominant pass rusher and the only reason he's not producing a handful of sacks is because you were fortunate enough to add one of the best pass rushers in the NFL, why should the Ravens be upset or feel they haven't gotten what they were expecting? Not a single coach, player, or decision maker has come out and said Upshaw needs to do more in pass rush. Upshaw said he wanted to produce more in that area because sacks equal dollars in free agency.

 

Upshaw was drafted to be a compliment to Suggs on the opposite side. The FO saw the hole at OLB opposite Suggs and thought Upshaw could fill it as a 3 down player.  The FO had no idea Dumervil would be available, thus going into the foreseeable future it would have been Upshaw and Suggs.

A OLB taken at 35 wouldn't be a rotational player if Ozzie wasn't able to score one of the best pass rushers in the NFL. You guys act as if Upshaw is being rotated with John Simon or even Mcphee for that matter. It's Elvis freaking Dumervil. Ozzie was able to find the perfect combination of a strong side OLB, but adding Doom doesn't mean they are expecting more of Upshaw. Maybe you are but from the looks of it the Ravens are not. They are prefectly happy with Upshaw.

By your preception the Ravens should be unsatisfied with Doom because they paid him starter money but all he does is rush the passer. He doesn't cover, rarely plays the run, he doesn't call and set the defense, he just rushes the QB. Last time i checked a SOLB getting paid starter money should be able to do all those things. But I'm sure the Ravens are pretty happy with Doom.

Absolutely not because the value of his role is significantly higher than Upshaw's role right now. Goes back to my second post on this with positional value and role values.  Dumervil's value to the team is higher than Upshaw's.  Doesn't mean Upshaw has no value but if Upshaw gets hurt or Dumervil gets hurt, which one do you think Harbaugh will be more worried about replacing the production? 

 

There's no real sense going back and forth here, we have different perceptions on what a #35 pick at OLB should be doing, that's fine.  I'm not here to convince anyone, just add an opinion.

Again say's who? You still never answered that. I never said you or anyone else didn't like Upshaw. All I said was that while people like yourself and I in some cases form a public perception of how things should be, who says that Upshaw isn't exactly what Ozzie thought he was getting. Hell I'll even except you saying you somehow got a private meeting with Ozzie and he told you he expected more when selecting Upshaw. Just tell me how do you know what Ozzie and Harbs are thinking because they certainly haven't said it or shown it for that matter, in terms of being unhappy.

You continue to say things like...you don't draft that type of player this high and The Ravens expected more. Ok so prove they expected more. Who is to say that Ozzie and company didn't look at Upshaw, place a value on his play and collectively agree that even though the guy may never be a strong pass rusher he's worth the pick and salary you'd pay him? What fan or reporter was in that draft room when drafting Upshaw and determining his value was discussed? I'm willing to bet none of us, so how can anyone definitively say what the Ravens were hopeful for when drafting Upshaw. That includes me.

When guys like Kurger, Mcphee, Kindle and ZDS were draft in the presser after the draft they were clearly defined by Ozzie, Eric and Joe as "pass rush guys" when they spoke about Upshaw they used terms like "junkyard dog", "violent", "he's a football player" etc. DaCosta spoke about how he'll be able to set the edge and how the position Upshaw would be asked to play is a tough one that many other guys can't play. In fact they basically described the exact player that Upshaw has turned out to be and I'm supposed to believe that they are now somehow unsatisfied with him?

Also for the record they did mention that Upshaw would be able to add to the pass rush, but I've never heard any one of the decision makers label Upshaw as nothing more then what he's been thus far. It's fans that expect more. So again tell me exactly how do we know Ozzie and company aren't completely satisfied with Upshaw and the value he brings?

Their college scouting staff publicly stated Upshaw was the best defender in the draft.  One scout had him listed as the best defender in the entire draft.  It was all in the post draft stuff.  And if Ozzie thinks an edge setting 25 snap player is worth a top 40 pick (which he would never do), then his GM career would have ended in 2002.  I don't understand why expecting a top 40 pick to be an every down player is unreasonable.  Both DeCosta and Ozzie had to think they were getting a 3 down player, which is fine Im not blasting them for it, because if they were fine with drafting a 1-2 down player depending on down and distance, then they're not doing their job very well.  An OLB taken 35th overall is not a supposed to be a rotational player, it's really that simple.

Says who lol. All I hear is fans saying this but the people who made the pick love him. I think it's safe to say if Ozzie and company would be willing to say how disappointed they are in Elam and Harbs was so willing to chastise Upshaw and Mckinnie for weight issues then they wouldn't be at all hesitant to publicly say Upshaw needs to step his game up. But they don't they all speak glowingly of him. But I'm sure that's just coachspeak and there is no way Upshaw is resigned after this year.

Doesn't mean Upshaw isn't good at what he is. Like there's no in between with people on this board. Coach doesn't have to hate a guy to acknowledge he's not getting what was originally thought, they do like him,but he's not fulfilling the envisioned role. And if the FO got what they originally thought from Upshaw its a bad pick that early. He was a very early 2nd, that's not where 270 pound OLBs that aren't productive pass rushers go, it just isn't. Personally if he comes back on a reasonable deal I'm not upset, he's very good at what he is and fills a roll, which is needed on a football team. But again, a top 40 pick, that lost snaps to McPhee (who actually got better here) and will lose snaps to ZaDarius who hasn't even played a down yet and both were 4/5 rounders? How is that good value in the top 40 picks?

If this is baseball Upshaw was taken to be a middle of the order guy in a high value position to produce numbers. He's essentially turned into a great defensive 1B, which is nice, but the corners in ball are numbers producers.

This is all about roles and position values. Not every position has an equal value, it's why some are paid higher than others. Upshaw is at a high value position and not churning out high production. His production is good for the role he is, but you can find that role filled cheaper if he's looking to cash in.

This post is a classic example of fans views and expectations not lining up with what coaches and other decision makers feel about a guy. Yes there is a reason that Zadarius will see pass rush snaps before Upshaw, but just like with Mcphee it'll be as a situational guy. There is a reason why Upshaw will continue to start at OLB, there is a reason why Upshaw will continue to make defensive alignment calls, there is a reason why coaches and teammates will continue to praise Upshaw. 

 

I keep seeing people say that Upshaw isn't the guy the Ravens were hoping, or that you expect more from a 35th draft pick, but I hear nothing but praise from any Raven coach or player that talks about Upshaw. Who's to say that Upshaw isn't exactly what the Ravens expected?

You don't take a 2 down and sometimes 1 down player at the top of round 2...doesnt matter how good he is at setting the edge.

He better be 100%, not going to last long as a founding member of 'club med'.

It's weird to think that he's literally the last holdover from an era when defences could still straight murder dudes coming across the middle and it was a football play. Then the ab would refuse to throw over the backers again out of fear his wr wouldn't even bother. He's like a pre Internet era guy or something lol, the grandpa with stories of the old days.

He isn't the player they thought they were getting. It's as simple as that. He's not much for quick twitch and doesn't use his hands well enough because in part of his length. They thought they were getting a junk yard dog who foams at the mouth and just dominates through force of will and wearing guys out. He's not that, he's a fine player in what he does but there's a reason why Zadarius will see pass rush snaps before Upshaw.

I remember one of the Ravens college scouts saying he had Upshaw as the best player in the draft that year...oops.

He turned a defense with virtually no secondary into a top 10 defense, what more do you want? A top 5 defense with no D-line?!

That would be innovative.

I actually think tyler Lockett in the 3rd is the steal of all the WR's. Id have preferred him over carl davis who i think will be a flop. He might at best be a marcus spears quality player..just ok . I don;t like his attitude and he def doesn't play like a raven to me. Paul Dawson or Lockett would have been FAR FAR better picks.

 

Darren Waller is intriguing though.

To be honest that's likely what they're hoping with Jernigan being the pocket penetrator of the front 3.  I didn't watch Davis much this year but his selling point is his anchoring ability.  That alone would suggest the Spears theory comparison.

Maybe we could try to get Arthur Brown more involved in the coverage game. He is pretty athletic and is a former safety so maybe putting him in those kinds of situations could see him contribute.

Normally I would say yes but Smith brings too much to the field right now to take him off.  He can still cover the HB while Mosley covers the TE.  Smith is too valuable right now to take off.

One of my favorite ravens games ever

Old time football, that type is gone now.  Last man standing type game, who buckled first, certainly wasn't going to be a Ray Lewis led defense.

Think the 2008 AFC division game the final chapter in that rivalry.  They still had Kearse and we had Lewis and Rolle from the old days.

 

That game was mans football though, no young pups survived.

AHHHHHH. Dammit. Well I'm in a slump now.

Ozzie grabbed Arrington, Mood improved lol.

 

I think with Boyle is he'll be groomed along slowly as TE in the NFL is a difficult position, especially the stress put on by Trestman. But I think for the first time we actually have 3 TEs that could turn into something, more than spot contributors.