Dewy101

3 hours ago, sflegend89 said:

No Myles Jack or Buckner huh? Surprised we didn't even talk to them at the combine (Well at least from what was reported). As others have stated it doesn't matter a whole lot, certain guys they want to get more of a read on whether that's because they're in consideration for one of our picks or they have some concerns that they want to get to the bottom of. We do tend to have a visit with our 1st round pick though as the data indicates so in all likelihood Ramsey/Bosa/VH3/Stanley are guys we're zoned in on at #6. I like that we had a private visit with VH3, I think we're higher on him than many fans seem to think, he killed the DB drills at the combine.

 

Also just saw the Brown haven't interviewed Wentz or Goff (At least publicly).. what the heck is up with that? Just Paxton Lynch who might be around in the 2nd. Anybody think they're not high on either of them and instead are looking to grab Bosa and take a guy like Lynch in the 2nd, that would make a lot of sense to me as I've heard a lot that this is a terrible QB class.

I'm guessing one of those two are probably going to be our picks if they're there of course. 

2 hours ago, 52520Andrew said:

So now because there isn't likely to be a good ILB at the #6 pick we should just ignore the position? I get that there won't be value unless Jack is there but there are plenty of other ways to get a player and I would be shocked if we don't at least add someone either through a draft pick or a FA, potentially both. I mean we signed Daryl Smith on June 5th 2013. Handing an UDFA, who played limited snaps last year due to Daryl Smith running out of gas, a starting job for a full 16 game season with no real backups to speak of(Arthur Brown was brought up as a joke by the way) is more than likely going to cost us. 

Well Ozzie is going to draft BPA. I mean we've ignored CB for 2 drafts now. We've ignored a true #1 receiver for a while too unless you consider Perriman the #1, but we have yet to see him take the field. I'm don't understand why you keep mentioning Orr as an UDFA I could care less about draft position as long as he can play

1 hour ago, 52520Andrew said:

Well they just cut Smith and he graded pretty bad when he was on the field towards the end of the year so that tells you how much they liked Smith towards the end of the year. Just because we have found UDFAs at a position in the past doesn't mean anything, and there was a certain player who made it far easier to play next to him. But that type of logic in general is just wrong even if we aren't taking Lewis into account. Should we just have not taken Mosely at 17 then since we are so good at finding ILBs in UDFA? And when has the coaching staff come out and said they are comfortable with Orr? Going into the year with just him next to Mosely and being comfortable with that just is not a good idea to me. I don't care how much you like Orr, this is how we end up in situations like 2013 with Gino, 2014 with our secondary, and our WRs this past year. And you do realize we are going against Eifert, Barnidge, and Ladarius Green twice a year each along with Gronk and Bennett, Reed, Witten, Ertz, and Julius Thomas? 

We don't have many options as of right now at ILB. Jack will more than likely be gone before our pick, Ragland and Lee are reaches at our pick. Someone on our roster is going to have to step up, the coaching staff liked Orr over Brown considering the fact that Brown was never active. I'm not sure if anyone we draft is going to come in and take the job right away. They cut Smith for a reason, I trust the front office has a plan in place either our other ILB is on the roster or we're hoping some team cuts an ILB. 

6 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

That's always my concern with guys that big who don't have that naturally. Pad level simply can't be fixed for a guy who's 6'7", it's a mental block where you feel if you lean forward any more than you'll tip over. You either have that mental block or you dont, bosa clearly doesn't have that problem because he's 6'7" and uses a hard lean and falls over all the time, not that it's a bad thing it's just hard for guys that tall to get low. 

 

You have guys like Shawn oakman who offer nothing but sloppy brute force and will never amount to anything in the nfl, but Buckner brings MUCH more to the table and will still succeed even though he gets stood up at times.

That brute force of Oakmans might be nothing in the NFL considering he never does leg day haha

On March 20, 2016 at 9:51 PM, 52520Andrew said:

Serviceable is still stretching it. An UDFA who has played limited snaps is not a reason for me to be comfortable with a position or think I am getting serviceable play from it. It just isn't. It would be like saying not to sign Weddle because Trawick graded positively in limited snaps(don't know if he did or not but that is beside the point). Or being comfortable with Trawick starting or expecting him to be serviceable over significant snaps.

Now if you see a player in practice every day and you think he has what it takes to handle that position then that is one thing. That is what training camp is all about and Orr will get his shot there. But we don't have near that kinda knowledge on these players.

No clue what Peterson has anything to do with this, he had a history of playing good over SIGNIFICANT snaps before 2014. A better example from the Cardinals may be Jerraud Powers who looked good in limited snaps but struggled when asked to play a larger role. 

There's a reason why our coaching staff was more comfortable with Orr over Daryl Smith when it came to passing situations. He has potential. We've had past success with UDFA. Guys like Ellerbe, Bynes, even Bart Scott. All who were more than serviceable. I trust the coaching staff they wouldn't be taking Smith off the field for Orr if he couldnt get the job done. 

23 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

1. It was the entire football playoffs. He was easily the MVP of that run. He had five straight games with at least one sack to end the season. I'd hardly call him a flash in the pan.

2. His play from the entire season was better than Lawson's; he just only had one year of starts and I think that's where most scouts are worried.

Disagree that his play was better than Lawsons. Injury really slowed down Lawson in the playoffs, but Dodd didn't show anything until the playoffs came along. 

15 hours ago, Maryland said:

I was trying to vouch your point. A small sample size goes both ways. On one extreme, there was Arthur Brown in the green his rookie year in limited snaps, and he's a huge bust. On the other extreme, there was Brandon Williams in the green his rookie year in limited snaps, and he went on to be a top-3 NT. 

Although PFF is certainly gimmicky with some of its stats. 

their system asks for consistency it's year in and year out which is why it's hard to grade out positively every year. They were a bit hesitant on Anthony Collins playing so well his contract season, but his past play was nowhere near as good. Some of there staff members were hesitant of Oliver Vernon because he never graded out this well outside of his contract season. 

15 hours ago, 52520Andrew said:

Plenty of players grade positively in limited snaps and then vanish. Melvin graded positively in limited snaps at one point. As for Orr, do you know anything in particular about the grades? Was he better at run support? Coverage? I know none of our backup LBs looked good in the preseason last year and that we got beat over the middle of the field for a good chunk of the season. 

He was good in coverage and run support. I know that's why I said limited number of snaps. His sample size is small but he played well. Every player seems to have up and down season Patrick Peterson in 2014 was horific but he bounced back in 2015 in their grading system. I'm not saying Orr is an all pro linebacker just serviceable. 

15 hours ago, Maryland said:

I remember Arthur Brown grading in the green on PFF lol. 

On special teams yes but he's never graded green for a season just average which is white lol

30 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

I think Kendall Fuller could fall quite a bit. He didn't do much at his Pro day, so I think that could certainly drop him. I wouldn't be surprised if he fell to the low 2nd, early 3rd round. 

I thinks he's a late 3rd early 4th guy

On March 3, 2016 at 11:31 AM, RaineV1 said:

I'd compare Higgins to Jarvis Landry. They're the type of receivers that you just keep steadily feeding the ball.

Just give him the ball. He just has a knack to make people miss. Really hoping he doesn't fall into the hands of the Steelers. Things won't be looking to good for the rest of the NFL if that happened. 

2 minutes ago, SammyG said:

I worry a bit about middle linebacker to be honest. I can't say realistically anyone would be available in the draft, but I would certainly like Myles Jack if he is there. Ultimately though, I am uncomfortable knowing that our middle linebacker corps are Mosley, Brown, Orr and Mcclellan. Now Mosley is the man and Orr looked good on 3rd down last season, but he is no Daryl Smith that's for sure. If we walk away with Jack, I think Ozzie would be a genius for adding so much speed a versatility to the defense and saving money on Smith, but if not, I'm not sure someone else like Brothers in the draft or Arthur Brown are ready to be the man this year.

PFF graded Daryl Smith as the worst player on our defense last season. Orr actually graded out positively in a limited number of snaps. Looking at our past success of undrafted linebackers I wouldn't be too worried if we don't land Jack. 

7 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Anyone who questions Fuller's ball skills is a person that I have to question whether they just watched three games and called it a day. Unlike many people on here, I have watched every single one of his games and had seen him play live at least 10 times, likely more. 

Fuller has the most impressive short to intermediate ball skills in the entire draft. He's got impressive route recognition in those areas and a great read and react to see the quarterbacks intentions and take full advantage. In 2013 and 2014, Fuller had eight interceptions and 35 pass deflections (those are the most pass deflections over that time frame) in 28 games, which doesn't happen by accident. He's got receiver like ball skills when the ball is in front of him. He has that mentality that every single pass should be his. 

I wish 2013 were available on draftbreakdown.com because that was his one truly healthy season. That Duke game was a seriously amazing game and I encourage anyone to look up that game if it's available because he had three interceptions and two bounce out of his hands (fairly difficult plays on the ball) and if it weren't for Logan Thomas throwing four or five interceptions, Fuller would have won that game for Tech.

Now, I will admit that his long speed is a concern, but that's the only major concern that I have. He's not going to be able to consistently run in phase with faster receivers down the field, and he won't be able to consistently turn his head, but he shows an impressive to read the receiver and knock passes away by simply reading the receivers eyes and arms. That is 50/50 in terms of pass deflection/PI, but honestly, for as much as people hype up Hargreaves, he even has long ball issues and gets beat over the top. 

He's also an extremely aggressive player in run support with no hesitations to come downfield and pop a running back. Really solid tackler who can really deliver a jolt. The only negative there is that he can't get off a block to save his life, but he's very willing to try, which is more than many corners can say.

Fuller will be at his best in an off-man, physical zone coverage team. He's got amazing ball skills when the play is in front of him and he can see the play develop. 

Oh, and for anyone who's really that worried about how he played against Michael Thomas, consider Michael Thomas is probably the best route runner in college football. Sure, there are better receivers in terms of height/weight/speed ratios, but no one runs silkier routes and he's got the dirtiest double move in college. And as far as biting on the double moves in 2015 (Purdue, Ohio State), he had a torn meniscus since training camp. A torn meniscus caused Myles Jack to leave a game and not return to college football again. Fuller played through it. And do you know what the meniscus is for? It helps evenly distribute the weight of the femur over the tibia so that it doesn't pinpoint onto one portion of the tibia, providing stability to the knee. In short, it makes your knee stable and makes cutting and lateral change of direction a lot more difficult. So basically, some of the premium skills for a corner were handicapped because he was too tough to give up. In 2014, he was playing with a broken wrist for the most of the season. 

Lol he was just as bad against double moves in 2014. Was that because of his wrist? Stats using misleading stats they mean nothing when projecting college players to the NFL. He's not a ball hawk he just doesn't turn his head around to attack the ball. Show me where he's actually done that? He just give up to much cushion to receivers in man and off coverage. He has a hard time sticking to anyone. 

8 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Oh, you mean when he had a broken wrist and torn meniscus?

So you're projecting his play to the NFL?  Show me some evidence of his game that is good I've provided you examples where he's been bad. Show me where to look where Fuller has actually been good? Don't throw stats at me they can easily be misinterpreted. 

8 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

So, having the most pass deflections in the country over the course of all the games he's played means nothing, I guess.

Yes it means nothing. Do you even know how to watch tape? Most of those throws that he's defended passes on are bad throws by QBs. You're not going to see a lot of those in the NFL 

2 hours ago, Cville-Raven said:

lol someone is really questioning Fuller's ball skills. The guy is a ball hawk. Btw I really like this mock Grim.

I've never seen Fuller turn around and look to intercept the ball instead he just runs into receivers and gets called for PI haha

I like how my posts get voted down when I provided proof of Fullers game haha

48 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

https://www.reddit.com/r/NFL_Draft/comments/3zwaf0/kendall_fuller_cb_va_tech_vs_purdue_game_analysis/

I don't feel like arguing with people so I'll let someone else do it for me. Fuller has ball skills, fellas. Not sure why people dislike Fuller. It's not like anyone here is saying he's the best CB by far in this Draft. I really like him, but he's in the mix for me with guys like Alexander and others. I don't like the concept that seems to be prevalent around here that you need to disparage one prospect if you like another. 

He does struggle to turn his head, but I've seen Alexander also not turn his head a ton in Clemson games I watched. I'd have to go back and tell you the specific games, but let's get real: any of these CBs at the top of this Draft could bust or boom. I love Fuller, but I admit he could fail and be a bust. Could Alexander also bust? Damn right. People say he is a bit too small or he is perhaps masked by a good pass rush or whatever or that he doesn't have ball skills because of his lack of interceptions. I honestly don't care about Alexander's lack of INTs. 

Hargreaves? Oh, yeah, baby! People practically threw him into the 2nd round after that little stretch of games he had at the end of the year. How about Ramsey? Sure. I recall people saying he had no ball skills but he [Ramsey] put on a clinic in the NFLPA event whatever that was. You and Cillmatic were calling him Megabust earlier in the year. I had concerns as well, but I was proven wrong. How about the new hype train CB, William Jackson? I like WJ3, but he's built lighter than Fuller and isn't exceptionally strong in press or man coverage. Eli Apple? He looked great against Amari Cooper in 2014 but then had an inconsistent 2015, but he's considered a 1st round guy. In fact, a few OSU fans I know are glad he is leaving. I personally don't agree with it, but that's their thoughts. 

I don't get why these other guys get absolutely no criticism reflected towards them from you and others. Yes, I'm talking about you because I see you constantly talking down Fuller and I've yet to read a rational reason why. You talk about stuff you see, but I don't see it. In fact, this forum is the FIRST place I've EVER heard anyone ever say Kendall Fuller has bad ball skills. Seriously. You guys are an outlier of your own. 

Sheesh, I said I didn't want to argue and yet I went on a tirade. Sorry, but I am passionate about this and I don't get fired up much about stuff, but I've been holding this in about Fuller and I've frankly had enough. 

Did you even watch that Purdue game he got beat on a double move in the 1st q 7:04 mark. Instead of turning around to look for the ball he runs into the receiver and gets called for PI. Ohio State 2015 he gets beat by Michael Thomas by a double move.  Where are his balls skills there? Ok fine he was playing hurt if thats your excuse.  Ohio State 2014 1st quarter 4:37 mark. He get beat in press coverage bad throw by QB but Fuller still gets flagged. 2nd Q 8:08 mark Michael Thomas breaks his ankles on a out route. He five yards behind Thomas Where are his balls skills? 3rd Q 7:27 he's holding Thomas 10 ten yards past the line of scrimmage but it doesn't get called. He's going to playing better receivers that Thomas in the NFL I can keep going if you like. He's not an outside corner right now at best a slot corner but he's going to have some struggles there until he gets proper coaching. He isn't a high second round pick 

17 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

I've watched his tape. I've also watched him play live twice. I know what Fuller can do. I've seen his best and worst games (not live, mind you) and I know he's a good prospect. I think he's an ideal fit for what Frazier likes out of DBs. I'm not sure how much that matters here since Frazier is a position coach, but I believe Fuller can be a very good off-man CB and he has ball skills to boot. 

He's a reach in the second where there will be better prospects available. He struggled off man against Ohio state in 2014 and 2015. He just gives up too much ground to receivers. I'd love to see where he's good in off man coverage because I can show you a dozen plays where he just doesn't have the play recognition to play off man. Where are his ball skills? He never looks for the ball when getting beat deep or on double moves. He just decides to run into the receiver and gets called for PIs

12 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

Yeah, because ball skills are overrated and questionable.

He's an overrated prospect. Where's his play recognition, hes athletic and that's all about him you can say about him. He jumps too many routes and fails miserably. He gets bullied in press coverage at best he's a nickel corner right now. Watch his tape he gives receivers so much room to manuever.  He just can't stick to his man. Like I said people are just high on him because of his name. 

Beavers is up there with LeRaven Clark as the most overrated prospects. 

I feel like Fuller only gets mentioned because of his name not because of talents, which are questionable at best. 

On March 9, 2016 at 8:33 AM, ALPHA said:

The only thing i think he's missing is top instincts in the run game.

That's why we have Mosely. Jack and Mosley compliment each other ridiculously well. They're a match made in heaven haha

1 hour ago, 52520Andrew said:

Well we don't know if he will be healthy, he has certainly struggled there these past couple years and the FO certainly doesn't seem high on him right now.

I also disagree that RT are far more valuable than LT, they call it the blind side for a reason. The only reason teams have moved their best pass rushers to the other side is because most teams don't have good RTs and they can take advantage.

Exactly why they are so much more valuable now. The best pass rushers are on their side now. 

5 minutes ago, 52520Andrew said:

So you would rather Monroe or Hurst be out there at LT?

Monroe if healthy of course.