Tank 92

8 hours ago, usmccharles said:

I dont get the displeasure with Timmy.  I know hes no Ngata, but i think hes holding is own and i think he will have a better year.  I think hes one of those guys we need to keep around that is just a guy who plays his role. 

In no way do I think they should dump him, but the way things have been I wouldn't be overly aggressive with his contract either. 

Besides being inconsistent what kills me is his propensity to take dumb penalties, sometimes at the worst of times. Just doesn't seem to play "smart". 

3 minutes ago, Ravensfan23 said:

I'd rather lock them all up lol. But if it came down to overpaying someone to stay, it'd be CJ for me. But guys like Wagner, Williams and Timmy are those borderline Pro Bowl players who could easily be among the best of their position if they hit their prime full speed.

If we can keep all 4 of those guys and they stay healthy, it'll go a long way to getting this team back to being a perennial Super Bowl contender. I think all those guys fit what the Ravens are about, both on the field and out in the community. What all of them on the field and they fit "Play Like a Raven" imo. 

I think top to bottom here is CJ, Wagner/Williams(tie), and a distant fourth is Jernigan. I may be in the minority here, but for me Timmy is expendable. He's very streaky, sometimes disappearing for entire games, and often doesn't play very smart. Doesn't mean he couldn't turn out to be a monster, but his present value seems much, much lower than the other three. 

11 hours ago, Cillmatic said:

Williams market is reportedly at $65 mil/5 years. That's $13 million a year. See ya later bro!

Just a guess, but I bet whoever came up with that figure used the NT franchise tag number which just happens to be $13 mil..

Only in a Flacco thread......  sigh

12 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

I think the numbers we have him signed at is what makes him worth keeping.  They are talking about Kenny Stills getting around 12mill a year...I know hes younger but he had worse numbers.  I think with the inflation of the cap and how much WRs are going to be getting paid, i think its best to keep him.  If we cut him, i think he would get more than what we have him for. 

Yeah, I think it's a given he stays for this year, but I don't think there's much chance they choose to extend. 

Wallace did get 1000 last year and I understand the apparent need to keep him, but he disappeared at times, sometimes bailed on routes and occasionally had alligator arms. Just didn't show to be "that guy".

If they sign a someone like Garcon and feel Perriman is ready to roll Wallace becomes expendable.  I doubt the confidence in Perriman is there going into next season, but that line of thinking probably prevents attempts to extend Mike beyond next year.  

2 hours ago, Ravenseconbeast said:

Lets see if we can take care of Brandon Williams & Wagner then see if we got some cash left for FA...

Yeah, I don't think they ignore possibly creating more holes by filling others. 

1 hour ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Ryan played a great game. That falls on the OC calling pass plays when 3 run plays would have given them a near perfect chance of winning, and the center getting dropped into Ryan's lap on a 7 step drop.

He played a great first half......second half? Not so great. 

TBH I don't really disagree with your statement about the OC and pass rush. But similar happens to Joe and I guarantee the banter here is "Flacco should have thrown the ball away and not taken the sack". and "he's an 8 year veteran, not a rookie. Can't he audible to run plays?"   Guarawnteeed. 

43 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I think Flacco is far from the only issue, but as the quarterback, it starts with him. I'd say that about any quarterback on a sputtering offense unless the quarterback was just having perfectly placed balls dropped 10+ times a game.

Like the Falcons QB in the second half of this year's SB?   

3 hours ago, redrum52 said:

That's only about a QP and not THAT much if he just picked up or was heading to "party."  

A lot of "party" or bad weed.   lol

8 minutes ago, ravefan52 said:

For those who know Elam he's always loved his weed. And it's not like he's kept it low key at all

I'm pretty sure a pretty good percentage of people his age love their weed, but I would guess most aren't stupid enough to ride around with 4 or 5 ounces on them. 

1 hour ago, MTRavensFan said:

Just to put it into perspective,  the 20 gms of cannabis is less than an ounce,  and legal in a lot of states.

The 3 gms of oxycodone,  however,  are usually prescribed in 5-30 mg tablets, so that's between 100-600 pills. No way he got those legally, that's some serious weight.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ravens-matt-elam-arrested-in-florida-on-drug-charges-163108285.html

Yeah, he had 126 grams and I'm guessing the cops weighed the oxycodone and didn't count the mg of the pills to get to 3 gms. But anyway you cut it how stupid can you be. It amazes me how these guys can make millions and still open up themselves to getting busted like this. Just sheer ignorance and stupidity. 

2 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I wasn't suggesting that Housh, Evans, or Heap should put up like 100/1500/10, but their time with Joe looked absolutely nothing like their time with their prior franchises. They went from having respectable third receiver seasons to being a case of, "What happened?" And it was odd because in the case of those three, they were here during some of Joe's best developmental years.

There were no mysteries and no one asked "What happened?" with any of the three as it was obvious all three were pretty much spent and done.  Housh left after his one year in Bmore, played in 9 games in Oakland the following season catching 11 passes, then retired. Evans arrived, hurt his ankle in camp, hardly saw the field all year and never played another down after his one year here. And if you were a huge Todd Heap fan like me you know that he was battered and worn from the years of being hung out by the likes of Boller, Wright and Redmond. He still played his heart out with Joe despite being a shell of his former self.  Todd left going to Arizona, played sparsely in 12 games in two years catching 32 passes, and retired.  

Nothing "odd" or peculiar here.

Edit; just a quick add on Boldin.....if he plays 16 games in '11 and '12 he likely breaks 1000 yards twice while here. 

33 minutes ago, ellicottraven said:

Nick Mangold anyone?? Just been released by the Jets.

I was reading that he's been pretty nicked up the past couple of years. Only played 8 games last year. 

41 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Up until last year, the Falcons had really only given him receivers. They hadn't given him a run game nearly to the level of Flacco or invested nearly as much into the offensive line. Even then, the only player now that they heavily invested into was Julio Jones. I would say the Ravens put more into the offense more consistently than the Falcons have for Ryan. Ryan has just made it work. 

I mean, let's be real. The Ravens are always going to be up against the cap due to Flacco, Yanda, Wallace, and Pitta occupying around 1/3 of the cap collectively, so they can't break the bank for an Alshon Jeffrey. But what the Ravens have done, especially recently, is try very hard to trade for players (Boldin), sign free agents (SSS, Wallace), or draft top 100 players (Williams, Perriman, Torrey, Gilmore). Every single year it feels like the Ravens go out and make these moves and everyone is all excited for all the weapons and all the new faces for Flacco to work with, but every time we get to the end of the season, it's that Joe didn't have any weapons or any of these great players around him. There are many, many teams that are vastly worse off on their starting 10 outside of quarterback. I would say the Ravens have a situation in the top half of the league, yet the offense consistently underwhelms and underproduces. 

Did you really write that the Ravens have consistently done more for Flacco than the Falcons have for Ryan? wowzer!  

And you are writing other things here and not understanding(maybe purposely) what you are writing. Boldin was here for 3 years and has been gone for 4. We won a SB in one of those years and were very competitive in the other two. Flacco and SSS had a good year in 2014, almost made it to the SB. 2015, 2016, injuries. Williams, Perriman and Gillmore probably haven't played a seasons worth of games between them. What is so hard to understand? 

I really have no interest in taking the time to disprove it, but your subjective hypothesis that "many, many teams are worse off" really has no bearing on matters. Fact is if the Ravens want to get back on top there's going to have to be improvements on offense in more areas than just the play of the QB. 

29 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

So the Ravens are just leaving Flacco out to dry and doing nothing for him?

"Just leaving Flacco out to dry and doing nothing"?  No, not really, but they've hardly broken the bank to load the offense with weapons. And due to unfortunate injuries(Pitta, SSS, Perriman, Watson, etc.) much of the efforts haven't panned out so well. Do you think they have done as much for him as, let's say, Atlanta has done for Ryan? I'll answer that for you......hell no. 

To be frank, this whole line of discussion is, again, ridiculous. Everyone knows improvement is needed from Flacco and I haven't read anything here saying otherwise. I think there was improvement over the course of last year. Seems he was gaining confidence in his knee and there's no reason to think that improvement won't continue. Everyone also knows the Ravens need to add playmakers and just need to improve offensive game planning in general. 

7 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

 

Mentioning Perriman was more to point out that the Ravens, especially recently, have definitely tried to make a concerted effort to surround Joe with guys. Since 2011, they tried giving him Perriman, Maxx (traded up for), Dixon, West, Torrey, and Crockett, several of those being top 100 picks to go along with Wallace, SSS, Boldin. They have really tried to put talent around him. We have to stop making excuses. Joe just hasn't played up to a level he's capable of lately.

This is a joke, right?  Anyone and everyone knows that improvement is needed from Flacco, that's a given and pretty much expected. But to say things like this is just ridiculous and crazy.  'Cmon MAN!   LMAO!!!!!

8 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Anquan had much better years in SF than Baltimore. He was also much better prior to coming to Baltimore.

Torrey is a TBD situation because SF was a dumpster fire and then he dealt with some serious health issues this year.

Then we have players who did well, but had their career die in Baltimore, essentially, like Housh or Lee Evans

Todd Heap was certainly better prior to the arrival of Flacco.

Lol....yeah that's not true, "much better" is a huge exaggeration.  Q had more targets/receptions with those teams as they featured the pass more, but his YPC were as high/higher in Bmore as any point of his career.  Housh? Lee Evans? Seriously? Gimme a break. LMAO!  And Todd was a shell of his former self, beaten and battered, by the time Flacco arrived. Pretty much FALSE on all counts.  lol

33 minutes ago, OUravensfan said:

SSS played better under Flacco than Newton, if he didn't get hurt in 2015 he was looking at multiple career highs. Wallace is what he always has been, a one trick pony #2 ceiling type guy. As for Perriman, draft position doesn't automatically mean he will be good, I want him to excel but so far he has been the reason for his own shortcomings dropping a lot of great passes, several TDs. 

Let's not forget about all of those great receivers that have left Bmore over the last 9 years and went on to be much better with other QBs like......like......  You get the picture.  haha

 Expected but still nice!

33 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

As one of flaccos biggest supporters I even acknowledge that he needs to learn to hit guys in stride, he really struggles to, although he often hits pitta in stride(chemistry?) and pitta just curls up around the ball and hits he ground, for a guy who is leading the team in receptions and is the one guy flaccos has a great feel for and can hit him in stride, you would really like to see him make better attempts at turning up field, a lot of first downs could've been converted had pitta caught and ran rather than his trademark fadeaway body catch(like the one he failed to stay in bounds against Pitt on a relatively routine catch inside the 5)

but absolutely, flaccos needs to hit guys in stride better, he's got 2 guys that can take any slant to the house and he is always breaking their stride

Exactly, and I think you hit the nail on the head when you mention "chemistry", or simply knowing where a receiver will be when. And I also think at times that Is a two way street where the receiver needs to be accurate and consistent in his route running. 

7 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Yeah, no fault of Flacco's at all.

lol....ridiculous. Said nothing of the sort and just kept with the theme and exaggerated as you did using the word "massive". But the fact is Pitta consistently falls down while catching the ball, Wallace and Aiken have often been timid in their receptions and SSS was slowed and injured last year. You don't need to see the comparative stats to know that, just need to watch the games. Also a fact that if Flacco had the advantage of having a true play maker or two the "extremely high" and "toward the body" throws you mention would not be as apparent and YAC(and consequently YPC) would be much higher. It's seen all over the league week in and week out, playmakers making plays catching less than perfect throws, running down the field, eluding tacklers.......you know, guys making plays. 

Think the Ravens are actively seeking a playmaker at WR and also hope Perriman, Max, Gillmore, Dixon, etc. pan out and become "that guy". Pretty obvious a QB and offense can't succeed without playmakers. 

48 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

A lot of poor ball placement from Flacco recently could be a massive reason.

Or the massive reason could be that the receivers either fall down(Pitta), turn their backs anticipating contact(Wallace, Aiken) or were just old, slow and injured(SSS).

10 minutes ago, ellicottraven said:

Sorry. I thought I provided the link.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/film-room/2016/film-room-joe-flacco

http://presnapreads.com/pre-order-the-2016-pre-snap-reads-quarterback-catalogue/

These were based on the 2015 season? I don't think one needs an analysis at this level to know that Joe and the offense sucked in 2015.  just sayin'. 

I'd like to see the same analyses for 2014.

43 minutes ago, Ravenseconbeast said:

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/baltimore-sports-blog/bal-for-ravens-joe-flacco-to-dennis-pitta-a-recipe-for-failed-completions-in-2016-20170222-story.html

Here is one for you Tank92.  Make sure to read the facts!

Thanks for enlightening me. In reading this it seems the facts point to the obvious(to most) reasons for sub par passing game performance. Poor receivers, lack of YAC, conservative play calling and injuries.