Italian Raven

5 hours ago, Boddiebroadus said:

What about Derek Rivers. Where does he project?

I see him as a second rounder, talent-wise, but I guess he might still be there by our 3rd pick. I highly doubt someone with hus potental will fall to day 3.

2 hours ago, Jacquouille said:

Carl Lawson has greatness written all over him. I wouldn't mind him in the first tbh.

Amen

7 hours ago, RavensDieHard21 said:

Bolles wouldn't be too bad, but Wilson is Def pegged as second round at this point

And I don't get why honestly. Wilson is one of the most complete CBs in the class. Great patience and recovery make up for the lack of top end speed. He's a top 3 CB imo and would definitely take him with a top 20 pick. I don't see any reason for him falling off the first round. 

2 hours ago, RavensDieHard21 said:

Best center is going to be Elflein. He would be a great move in the second. Underrated centers are Kyle Fuller from Baylor and Jay Guillermo from Clemson. I like Guillermo as a fourth round pick. He handled business in the playoffs and handled the vaunted Alabama front without any concerns. He could be a nice move 

I didn't look enough O linemen tapes to rank them so I'll mainly rely on reports and on a few sites' opinions until we make our pick. Eflein looked very solid all around and has even been used as a pulling lineman on outside runs as well and is pretty agile reaching the second level. So I'd guess he'll barely get to our 2nd. I just don't know if even the best centers are as valuable as that though as many of them around the league are former day 3 picks. 

I Love Fuller. Looked amazing at the SeB. I don't think he'll get to our 4th rounder. I definitely have to do my homework on Garcia (who had a great SeB as well) and Gulliermo. This year I've been spending most of my time on edge defenders and only later on watching CBs and wideouts, so I barely considered that side of the trenches. 

On 13/03/2017 at 3:26 PM, Edgar said:

Pocic early concerns me. I can't tape where he actually moves people without benefit of it being a combo block.

In fact, the opposite is true...he GETS pushed and is completely overpowered. I don't see him as an upgrade at center.

Same opinion. I saw he was considered one of the best centers and watched a couple of tapes. I came away very unimpressed. It's not only the center of gravity due to his height effecting the lack of leverage/push, he also lacks functional strenght and punch speed. I don't seem him worth anything better than a late 3rd. It's very very hard to evaluate centers/guards and predict their stock anyway; few years back I loved Dismukes and AJ Cann and well.. They really didn't perform like the late first round grade I had put on them 

35 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

would disappointed if ramczyk was the pick but id be understanding - we want playmakers in every draft but sometimes team building isnt always about playmakers alone

Same here. I wouldn't like it one bit because we have a realistic shot at one top tier talent between Wilson, Barnett, Harris, Lattimore, Williams, Davis, Fournette, Thomas, Howard, Foster, Lawson, McKinley (with Garrett, Allen, Adams and 1-2 qbs going before #16). It would take me a while to talk myself into liking a different pick but I guess I'd understand the reasons.

Lol

These boards are quite laughable.. Every pick should go at least one round ahead of this (Lattimore is still a top 15 talent despte the injuries concern imo and is even the most realistic pick).

39 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

 but do you really think josh carraway is draftable?

Carraway is just a fast, blind man imo. They moved him around quite a bit at TCU, even as blitzing ILB. He's a straight line speed guy and has a good bend but it's sooo inconsistent. He's even a worse run supporter. 

Given our need for speed around the edge and an early addition like Barnett I wouldn't be surprised if we gave him a chance as a 3rd down pass rusher and see if there's any possibility of improvement. 

I really like it. Only player I'm not in love with is Ford because in the late 3rd we might find Switzer, Godwin, Henderson who have more upside imo.

But I definitely wouldn't blink an eye.

I see Barnett as a possibility there now that Carolina has added Peppers and resigned Addison (while still need a starting CB, probably a WR and ILB), Philly desperately needs multiple corners, Indy just added Sheard so I guess they'll keep building the Oline or add a RB.

We're in a good spot to land a great edge rusher and the former vol has a realistic chance to still be there at 16.

I absolutely loved Kazee at the senior bowl practices and really like Awouzie aggressiveness on screens and generally the run D (although I couldn't find much material regarding his pass defense).

I'm a Dawkins fan as well and I'll be happy with either him or a falling 1st round worthy playmaker.

I was just watching Corey Davis game against Akron and #6 DeAndre Scott (Senior, team pass breakups' leader in 2016 and 6 int in 2015) stood out. The kid looked like reading the body language and waiting for Davis on the outside pattern on those 2-3 plays. He even almost got away with a great INT if it wasn't for that hold that he could've easily avoided. There isn't much about him online and he wasn't invited at the combine so I'm just throwing one more name out there. Possibly a serviceable 7th rounder or UFA.

Maaaan.. Who am I going to talk bout football with?! An italian..in Germany..

People are wearing nfl merchandise at the gym but barely know the most important players of each team, let alone draft prospects.

I second those who said the FB page ain't an option. There's no logic or basic understanding of the sport there.

It was great to be here though, and I'm glad there's people putting effort and time in the creation of a board for all of us to migrate to.

I'll give a look at the few option we have and move accordingly.

8 hours ago, rossihunter2 said:

that's a bit rich for me but if we could get him in the 3rd id be pretty pumped

My problem is that the class ain't that deep.. There are a few good mid round guys but who can play LT and eventually move around like him? Idk. I think it's easier to see inside linemen and big, slow footed guys like Banner slide than him. Draft will tell

Man.. Dion Dawkins looks as agile as a TE. It's amazing. Great kick, super light on his feet, low pads, patient pass protector and gets to the second level with great speed and angles. He's no mauler but he gets his job done in the run phase.

Not sure he'd be the best to move him inside, as some suggest.

Now that Wagner looks gone I'd go crazy for him in the second.

9 minutes ago, allblackraven said:

Schneider and Carroll must be licking their chops.

Lol.. I hope for the hawks that Carroll ain't lick those chops too hard. 

The should at least double dip Oline in the first 5 rounds.. I expect them to get the most versatile guy with their first. Someone who you can build an oline around. Then fill the other gaps with some later picks.

11 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

He's got first round tape and 2nd/3rd round size. But I'm of the belief that size doesn't matter if dudes can't touch you, and I think he's one of the edge players that can truly go untouched often. He's a spark plug if I've ever seen one 

Ahahah indeed. A small Jaimie Collins.

36 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

He absolutely dominated Memphis, that tape is a lot of fun, his pursuit was out of this world in that game and he just embarrassed the OT

Woa.. That tape is something special.

He's so "play" fast, reactive to the ball carrier changing direction. He can also be used in some blitzing packages but he has such a recovery, great chasing angles that it's almost a shame putting him hands to the ground.

I guess he'll be best as a Will or Mike in a 4-3. I'll keep an eye on him but I guess he'll go between the 15-25 picks. Definitely loocked like a 1st round lock there

23 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

the reason i'm not so worried is he's shown the ability to adapt and set up tackles by faking inside, or actually rushing to the inside and keeping the tackle honest, he has enough speed that and burst to challenge that first kick step so that if there isn't perfect balance and weight distribution the tackle's in the weak position - ironically when he has done this he hasn't always taken advantage and moved into a bull-rush move or something, and in terms of tackles getting hands on first and getting a good punch, watch barnett vs cam - now cam doesn't have a great kick but watch him vs myles garrett and you'll see that as soon as cam gets hands on it's pretty much game over in pass protection, so then go back and watch barnett not even let cam lay a hand on him - he just rips those hands off violently

he's shown a willingness to add to his repertoire as well, he tried a couple of spin moves although he didn't rip with his hands so well to set it up properly to beat the tackle to the inside, i think if he can get into a training camp and refine that spin move and really keep up those violent hands he won't have any trouble transferring his skills to nfl tackles - it's not like he's inexplosive, he ran a 4.88 with the flu when guys like taco charlton who was supposed to be more athletic ran slower - if he gets to his pro-day and runs a 4.8 he'll be absolutely fine

i really think he might be the safest prospect in this draft and i dont mean that as a backhanded compliment because i think his ceiling is pretty exceptional too

Honestly, I didn't expect Taco to be much faster than he showed.. He moves laterally pretty well and has a pretty good first step but I didn't see the explosion or edge speed to make me think he'd post anything better than a 4.8.

As you say Barnett may easily be one of the safest picks. That was my first impression and it is yet unchanged. He may not have an immense cieling (Mack, Miller) but I think he'll make a better pass rusher than Bosa (to name a recent top 5 pick). He has a very nice and natural swim when slicing through the B gap and is a pretty complete edge defender. 

21 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

What are your thoughts on reddicks bend? I think he's got one of the better bends in the class and being 6'1 with long arms he should be able to go untouched with his bend.

My gf ain't home this week so I'll have plenty of time to check a few guys: Melifonwu, A. Jackson, Pocic, Eflein, and Reddick as well. Only few time I dedicated to him was watching the Senior Bowl practices a few times and, just like you all, I was very impressed. Super fluid dropping in coverage and good speed around the edge. Very good athlet. I'll let you know soon. Do you have any specific tape to suggest?

25 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

i think the thing is, barnett bends so early that he has to get his shoulder level so low to dip under the tackle because he's forcing the edge earlier than most guys because he knows he can - and yet he somehow maintains balance.

You might be 100% right. Mine is just the fear that, in case we're able to get him, his go to move might be neutralized with relative ease by any pro LT who shows a good, deep kick and has the patience to punch him at the right time. He is a lot more than that anyway so I wouldn't be overly concerned 

10 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Barnett plays at a sharper angle of lean than anyone in the class by a long shot. You can't get low to shorten the edge without a shoulder dip so I'm not sure what you're getting at by saying we're confusing one with the other, shoulder dip is a part of lean. 

When Barnett gets just one step on the tackle, he capitalizes instantly by dropping his shoulders and taking a hard lean into the pocket, he does it consistently. 

I know you want everyone to see Lawson in the same light that you do but you won't do it by reaching to downplay Barnett

The only reason it was Laws again is that I didn't have enough bends screenshots.. I've been reviewing those that are capable of being picked with our first 3 picks (so Garrett and low school guys with few or no tapes excluded) and have to admit that I didn't find a good sample size. Price is the only one I can recall with a low pad level and good bend. Rivers had a pretty good showing as well.

However, as I wrote in the end of my precedent comment, my interpretation of dip and bend doesn't take anything away from Barnett.. He's a top 15 talent in this class which is quite impressive already and I like him better than guys like Bosa and Taco. So really.. Not trying to throw sheesh at him while pumping my guy up. Lawson himself has an average bend imo. 

It's purely coincidental.

And it can also very well be that I'm being nitpicking here. I just noticed some differences while watching tapes and wanted to share my POV with you. 

I keep reading about Barnett being linked with the word "bend" and I´m not sure I can agree.
I think there´s a substantial difference between shoulder dip and bend and the former in unquestionable but I do have doubts on the latter.
 

If you look at these pics maybe you´ll see what I mean.


Although Lawson doesn´t possess the best bend in the class he does have a nice one.
After the initial burst off the LOS he gains the edge and, as soon as the RT makes contact with him he has the left foot planted in the ground and doesn´t get push off the arch. He rather maintains the hips toward the QB and is able to continue along his designed lane. Shoulders are parallel to the ground because he has total control of his position.



Here you clearly see the difference.
Left foot (while it should´ve been the right one), and (left) shoulder dip (not parallel to the ground).
The problem I have with the dip is that you´re not 100% on balance and if the T times the snap well he doesn´t need much to push you off the play and create a big whole on that side of the ball.


Now, I don´t think that takes anything away from Barnett´s talent. I´d still like him at 16. I only think that a good snap timing paired with a good bend (if my distinction between the two things is correct) is more effective than a good snap timing and a shoulder dip (which, if it failes, might cause a scrambling QB to find easy holes). 

1 hour ago, PurpleHorseman said:

I like Lawson. I like him better than Garrett. Not a chance of him slipping under radar and being there in round2. Have to get this guy at 16. He is the Khalil Mack that we missed.

I guess people will take your 'like' for 'is a better player'.

He has a ton of moves and he's been criminally underrated so far so as you say, he's not hard to like and hopefully he'll be picked where he deserves to.

Just now, hn68wb4 said:

Whitfield is with the WRs

Oh yeah I just realized.. I have no horse in the race then.

Maybe Pumphrey but I wouldn't bet much on it.

11 minutes ago, hn68wb4 said:

RB 40 is about to start, who do you think will run the fastest time? I think Cook has a shot, he should have one of the fastest splits, his acceleration is unreal.

My money's on Whitfield. It's only very few money tho. I don't have much

53 minutes ago, Ravensfan23 said:

I honestly don' think that's a huge problem for him. Even the best Centers get overpowered by big NTs from time to time, but as a former wrestler, he uses his hands and leverage very well. 

Won't act as if i've seen every snap, but I've never seen him get overpowered or play off balance which is usually things that show up when you're playing with high pad level. The 22 reps don't "look good" but the bench doesn't always show how strong a guy is. Again he plays with really good leverage and balance which adds to his strength. Also he has a chance to improve that number at his pro-day. He had a really good day imo, but i also caution against expecting a prospect to be flawless. Everyone will have something to improve upon and by all reports i've seen he's a hard worker who craves coaching. I think he's a day 1 starter and could really help the Ravens, but we'll see. 

I started to write my post more than one hour ago and finished only now that I'm home so I couldn't see yours. I couldn't agree more.

45 minutes ago, Jacquouille said:

I can't remember it, but Whitehair's benchpress number was pretty ridiculously low, so I wouldn't pay too much attention to that.

Indeed. Yanda had 22 reps as well.

Bench press is more about showing a player's willingness to hit the weight room (you just don't bench 220 for 20 or 30 times from one day to another) rather than his play strenght. I'm not overly concerned about any olineman hitting the 20 reps mark.

Also, I'm not sure there's any C able to contain a "big NT" like Williams, Harrison, Poe, Lotulelei without help. You can avoid to double team those guys entirely by running outside and pulling a G for example but their inside presence will always be there, regardless from one's bench press number.

2 hours ago, rossihunter2 said:

I still don't see what there is about him that makes him worth a mid-first beyond pure athleticism: he's stiff, doesn't bend the edge well, is as raw as any prospect, often gets stonewalled on film and has no disengage moves - this is what I've seen on the film I've watched and I'll admit I essentially have dismissed him to the end of the first round in terms of value - id love for him to go higher as long as it's not to the Ravens 

I don't think Lawson is going day 1 because he's such a risk - a lot will depend on the combine medical stuff... I really like him on film though, as a pure pass rusher I think Id have him maybe fourth albeit he's still in my top 40 prospects or so... the injury makes me nervous but I guess if teams ok it then he could leap back up - I still think it's more likely he goes day 2

It is absolutely true that Takk has to develope some counter and disengaging moves but I see him as a very high floor guy and imagine he will be a far more finished product in 1-2 years. That's really a guy I can hardly see bust.

I also agree on the relevance of medical evaluations effecting Lawson's stock. I don't think he'll get to the second tho.

Dominique Easley, coming off a senior season ACL (the second) injury, was still picked at the bottom of the first.

The way he accelerates, locks his hips, flatters and maintains leverage on the outside; his ability to convert speed to power and use it wisely on Ts pads are rare.

It can happen but on the second he would be a tremendous steal.