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In 2009 Joe went 4/10 for 34 yards, 0TD and a pick against the Patriots in the Wild Card Round. Not to knock Joe, but give Luck another year or two to prove himself.

I hate when people bring that game up.Joe didn't have a bad game that day.He just wasn't asked to do anything.Also,he had a serious thigh injury he was dealing with.

I think his point is that you don't need flashy numbers to be great, especially given how subjective QB figures can be.

I get what he was trying to say.I was just defending Montana's numbers.Montana actually did have flashy numbers.

Montana didn't have any 4,000 yds passing seasons. I get it was a different era, but he also had Jerry Rice. 

Holding the fact that Montana never threw for 4,000 yards against him would be like holding the fact that Rodgers has never thrown for 5,000 yards against him.Even if either of them never hit those marks they're both still the best QB's of their era's.Montana's numbers were Rodgers like in the 80's.

I don't have him in my personal top 5 but I'd love for him to prove me wrong and force himself into my top 5 and everyone else's top 5.To me he's not that far away from being there.He just needs to get those int's up.

I would kill for a regular season like the 5 or 6 good ones that Ben has strung together. Flacco has durability over Ben, but just about every other category belongs to Ben.

Disclaimer - Not "hating" on Joe, just giving my opinion based on facts and not which team each players plays for.

After looking it over again,the year Flacco had last season was better than 3 or 4 of Roethlisbergers past 6 seasons IMO.

I would kill for a regular season like the 5 or 6 good ones that Ben has strung together. Flacco has durability over Ben, but just about every other category belongs to Ben.

Disclaimer - Not "hating" on Joe, just giving my opinion based on facts and not which team each players plays for.

Over the last 6 years Ben has averaged 4,013 yards per season,25 tds per season and 10 ints per season.There are some outliers messing up those averages(he missed 4 games in 2010 and his 2014 stats are an anomaly)but that's pretty much what we get from Flacco.The only reason his passer rating is higher is because of his completion percentage.His past six seasons haven't been much better than Joe's.And I'm not just saying that because I'm a Ravens fan.If Ben's stats are good enough for the HOF then that means Rivers,Ryan and Romo are all one ring away from the HOF too because they've all out stated him by a mile.I know that the way the teams are built has to do with that but that's not what most people look at.The HOF should be for elite QB's like Rodgers,Peyton,Brady and Bree's.Up until this point Roethlisberger has never been on par with them but he has a STACKED!!! offense around him so who knows what will happen in his last 5 or so years.

Torrey hangs his toilet paper with the back hanging down.

Perriman hangs his toilet paper the front hanging down.

Clearly Perriman is the superior human being.

( no, really that is what this thread sounds like )

Ha Ha 15 days until the first preseason game.Then the monotony of the offseason will be over.

I don't see Joe making the HOF.He would need 1 or 2 more SB's and an All Pro season under his belt before anyone would entertain that.He would also need to throw 4,000+ yards and 30+ TD's from here on out and I don't see that happening because I don't see Ozzie devoting those type of resources to the offense in the next 7-10 years.

As much as I don't like him, Big Ben is definitely a HOFer.

He would needs a few more seasons like the one he had last season and he would need to throw more touchdowns.His stats haven't been that much better than Flacco's for most of his career.The only big difference between the 2 of them is his completion percentage.

but, in all those areas, perriman as a rookie is STILL superior to torrey as a 4 year vet. 

lets make a checklist... 

 

speed: perriman 

size: perriman 

ability to break on routes: perriman(though still not an impressive aspect of his game) 

physicality at the LOS: perriman, one of his better refinements, FARRR superior here

ball tracking: perriman 

high pointing: perriman by far 

contested catch: perriman by far 

acrobatic catch: perriman by far 

catch-and-run: perriman 

"attacking" the ball: perriman by far by far by far by far(yes, he is much better here) 

catching in traffic: perriman by far 

mean streak during YAC: perriman by far 

separation: cant say here, both have inconsistencies in this area but their speed helps 

acceleration: even. 

 

not trying to bash torrey, but perriman is better than torrey in literally every single aspect, and in many aspects he is miles ahead of him. 

 

stop taking factual evidence gathered from visual analysis and making it out to be another case of drinkin' the haterade, its really not the case.

Alot of the attributes on your list can be given to Torrey(Torrey can't track a deep ball?Really?) unless you're talking about Torrey coming out of college and the majority of them are just things a big WR can do and I've already said he's Torrey WITH size.I noticed you didn't add any of the things they have in common to your list like hands problems,both running a limited route tree,both only having straight line speed,both lacking shiftiness and both actually being close in size.Perriman is only 1 inch taller and a few pounds heavier.As I said,Torrey and Perriman share alot of traits but you just gave the nod to Perriman.That's why I see it as people just knocking Torrey.Can you atleast admit that does happen often because of that last play?You have your OPINION based on "visual analysis and I have mine.I'll leave it at that.

I don't even remember how the conversation got to this point.My original comment was that Breshad Perriman played like a larger version of Torrey Smith.Both struggle with their hands,both are long striders,both have more straight line speed than short area quickness and both run a limited route tree.

Revisionist history to cover up Torrey's issues with his hands and consistent catching. He had it on his first and last day here. He made the spectacular play but also the tough drop, didn't drag his foot, etc. It was those instances that kept our team from matching the 49ers deal.

 

However, he's obviously an awesome guy, community member, and undoubtedly had a big impact on our team. Don't wish him anything but the best... unless he plays us again.

I'm not even trying to say he didn't have trouble being consistent with making catches at times.I'm just saying he wasn't strictly or purely a body catcher.

He is absolutely known as a body catcher!

http://www.bigcatcountry.com/2011/3/2/2024604/2011-nfl-draft-profile-torrey-smith

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/torrey-smith?id=2495459

http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2011torreysmith_greg.php

Plenty more as well. Plus, you know, what you see on the actual field. Again, love the guy, just showing what he is...a body catcher.

He might've been a body catcher coming out of college,but he wasn't one during his time with us.

That's a blatantly made up stat if I've ever seen one lol.

 

It's was an estimate.That's why I said "about" and not "exactly".

As for the rest of what you said,I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.I just don't see how anyone can look at Torrey's full body of work in the NFL and say he was purely a body catcher.

Disagree entirely. Perriman is bigger, stronger and faster.

He's got more talent than Torrey did entering the league. He's got more natural hands and better body control. Can go over the middle and make catches in traffic and is good in jump ball situations.

The comparison to Torrey is forced and only exists bc of Torrey leaving and the speed factor. But Perriman is quite a bit faster than Torrey and more versatile imo. I get why the comparison is there, but saying he's a "clone" is completely unfounded.

Comparisons in general are pretty useless especially considering Perriman has yet to play a snap in the NFL, but if you are to make one I'd say a more appropriate comparison would be to Demaryius Thomas, Julio Jones or maybe AJ Green.

He's an athletic freak who needs some refinement in route running but has the ability to not only be a deep threat but can become an all-around weapon and true #1 receiver. I love Torrey but his skill set doesn't translate the same way Breshad's can.

Perrimans game is nothing like AJ Greens or Demaryius Thomas' game.AJ Green is the smoothest route runner in the league and he has good speed but he's not freakishly fast.Thomas is the quickest big man in the game.He's a 6 foot 3 220 pound guy but moves like you would expect a 5 foot 10 guy to move as far as shiftiness and elusiveness goes.You can't use those descriptions to describe Perriman.The Julio Jones comparison on the other hand is kind of close.I think Perriman and Torrey are both poor man versions of Jones.The only difference between them and Jones is they can't do some of the things he can do in short spaces.

im not judging him based off that one play, youre judging him based off of a handful of plays in a 4 year career though. come on man, you know as well as i know that torrey is a body catcher and no amount of highlight gifs can change that, we have 4 entire seasons to evidence this as we watched him miss one touchdown catch after another because he failed to make the right adjustment. he even practiced and developed an ability to purposely draw a pass interference because he so often failed to capitalize because he was so bad at using his hands. 

 

hell even ed dickson had a handful of really impressive highlight reel catches, doesnt mean he had great hands. 

 

EDIT: and no, were not torrey haters, im still a torrey smith fan, he was a huge part of our team and there were many times when he was our only chance at scoring and many times where he came through in those situations. all players have weaknesses and im not saying im glad torreys gone because of his weaknesses, i wouldve loved for him to stay, but i think breshad perriman as a rookie, looks like he will be much better than torrey as a rookie, thats just plain and simple and any amount of film comparison will show you that.

He was both.And I'm not judging him off of just a handful of plays.Atleast 40-50 percent of his receptions weren't body catches.

I think it's cute how someone came along and down voted me and Tru11's comments because they were pro Torrey as a player.

I love Torrey as a person as much as the next guy, but he is definitely considered a body catcher. Not as much as someone like Jacoby, but come on, he is not known for routinely catching with his hands.

I wouldn't call him a hands catcher or a body catcher.He could do both depending on the way the ball was thrown and the position he had on the DB.

Torrey's definitely not hated. In fact its the exact opposite.. Ppl were just frustrated that he didn't become a number 1 receiver. There are ppl hating ON him, but I don't think anyone here could go as far as saying they even dislike him, esp after what he's done ( and is still currently doing) in the baltimore community.

Yeah,I meant hate him as a player not as a person.

wrong. perriman may not have great hands but he is a natural hands catcher with long and sturdy limbs and a moderately aggressive approach. torrey was almost a pure arms/body catcher and is one of the most passive receivers ive ever seen. also perriman has alot more shiftiness to his game. 

 

to put it simply, aside from speed and dreads, they are very different. not to bash torrey, but perriman does alot the things that veteran wr's are supposed to do, that torrey simply is unable to learn, ie: attack the ball hands first

Torrey not a hands catcher?

I could make make a highlight video of the dozens of catches Torrey has caught with his hands away from his body.Stop judging him based on that one play.I will give you the fact that he was a little bit passive though.

Ok I think I get it now lol.This has nothing to do with the fact that I compared Perriman to Torrey and everything to do with the fact that Torrey is a hated man now.Whew,thought I was going crazy for being the only one who sees the similarities.

Yeah I agree, that comparison is pretty weak. Perriman is much more developed than Torrey was coming out of UMD. A guy like Sammie Coates is far more like Smith. 

Coates and Perriman both remind me of Torrey but you're right about Coates being more like Torrey.

gotta disagree with this assessment. Perriman is bigger, stronger, and faster. He has much better hands/natural catching ability than Torrey and more experience catching the ball in traffic. The only comparison between the two is that they are fast, have/had dreads coming into the league, and were drafted by he Ravens.

They have alot more in common than just hair lol.They both have fast straight line speed but lack quickness and suddenness,they both ran a limited number of routes in college,they both had problems with drops in college and they're both just not as fluid and smooth when they run like some of the top route runners in the league.When you look at Kevin White,Julio Jones and AJ Green move,their hips and lower bodies look so much looser and smoother.Perriman's not stiff,but he looks alot more stiffer from the waist down than those guys look when he moves.Torrey was more fluid than Perriman but he was never as fluid as those guys either.With that being said,I want to make it known to anyone who reads this comment that I'm very much so a fan of Perriman and this is not meant to put him down.I just think that he has alot of the same ups and downs as Torrey.The only difference is he has more size and maybe a bit more power than Torrey had.

Perriman is basically a Torrey Smith clone with more size.I think he'll be used in all the same ways we used Torrey for the past four years.Alot of curls,post and go routes.

I remember Steve and Torrey Smith being used on wr screens and  both went for  a touchdown.. I mean there were moment when it didn't work but were moments when it did and help The Ravens offense get some major yards.

I gotta agree with redrum52.The only WR screen I remember being successful last year off the top of my head is the Smitty screen vs the Falcons when he took one for 40 something yards.Other than that our WR screen usually go no where.I definitely don't remember neither Smitty or Torrey taking one for a TD.