Purple_City39

1 hour ago, usmccharles said:

Yea that was kind of my point, im a Harbs fan.  I was basically just saying its more than one person. 

My mistake.  Definitely misread

On 1/24/2017 at 9:04 PM, usmccharles said:

Or was it.....Ray Rice, Torrey Smith, Jacoby Jones, Boldin, Joe Flacco, Pitta, Ed Reed, Ray lewis, Ngata, Suggs, Jimmy Smith......

Yea, im guessing it has something to do with the amazing roster we fielded....but thats none of my business.

I'd say it was a combo of both.  We had some amazing rosters from 2001-2007, minus the QB, and we didn't see the type or results we did from 2008-2014.  In just 2008, with a division 3 rookie QB, the Ravens won more playoff games than they did in the 7 seasons prior.

John deserves credit just like those players do, just like Ozzie does

I never understood when I'd see post talking about how Jimmy gets beat often, or even at all really.  I can't remember the last time he gave up even 40 yards in man coverage and I'm pretty sure the only TD he allowed all season was in zone coverage against Cleveland.  Jimmy Smith, when healthy, has easily been a top 3 cover corner since about 2013.  Doesn't matter who it's been against, whether A.Brown or C.Johnson, he shuts them all down except the occasional play by AJ Green.

The only real complaint that should ever be lobbed at him is staying healthy.  Even he seems frustrated by that if you saw his body language after his last injury

I'm most excited about Perriman and the run game IF they can fix the o-line.  Dixon and West have proven to me they can play.  Give the Ravens an o-line that can run block better than we saw in 2016 and the run game will dominate. 

And from the little we saw of Perriman sharing the #3 spot and being the 4th option at best on most plays, he put in some nice work at times.  His final stat line against Washington and Josh Normal looks bad, but if I'm remembering correctly he abused Norman twice deep for what would have been about another 60 yards and a TD if he 1) catches the first pass, and 2) gets his second foot down for the second pass.  Add in some of the great plays he did make (catch in Buffalo, Browns TD catch around the defender, 59 yard crossing route TD) and it's hard not for me to be excited about him.

2 hours ago, RavensDieHard21 said:

more often than not, Ozzie let's the right players leave, many does not mean a majority by any stretch of the imagination.

 Let's trace back to post Super Bowl. Boldin trade was ridiculous as we got nothing decent for him. Yet we trusted Torrey Smith as our #1, Pollard might not have been the long term solution, but with Reed leaving too, it was unwise to let both go. McPhee regardless of $7.5 million a year was still a constant pressure and made our pass rush elite and was a security measure if one of our +30 year old rushers got hurt. KO received LT money, but I still think you cannot allow a blue chip player I leave your team, the Raiders certainly understood his value. 

Let's look at the most recent offseason--FA and Draft--winners, such as the Seahawks, Patriots, Broncos, Raiders, Cheifs, Atlanta, Packers.

Those teams have drafted well and don't allow their top players to hit the ground running during FA. Even though the Seahawks had multiple pro bowlers all drafted with a year or so of each other, did they allow cap to be an issue and say ah hell, we gotta let me go? No. They consistently sat down with their players and got deals done. Just think, they signed Richard Sherman, Earl Thomas, Kam Chancellor, Bobby Wagner, Michael Bennett, Cliff Avril, Doug Baldwin and Russell Wilson. We signed Joe Flacco and extended Suggs. Pop your New Years confetti cannons. 

1. People never see the full scope of the Boldin trade.  Boldin was the underneath chain mover.  The Ravens traded him knowing (without foresight) that Pitta could take over that job.  They knew (without foresight) that Torrey AND Jacoby could handle the outside.  Then Pitta fractured his hip in the offseason.  Jacoby got hurt week one.  Even the backups we had at the time like Deonte Thompson got hurt (not that he was worth counting on though).  THEN the o-line and the run game dropped off into oblivion.  So whereas the short-sighted can say "see what happened without Boldin", others can see that a whole lot went wrong on that offense

2.  Nobody pays a 3rd down pass rusher 7.5M a year to sit on the bench for 1/3 of the snaps or as insurance for an injury.  Suggs and Dumervil stay healthy and half the fanbase is complaining about all that money to a situational pass rusher.  Keep in mind Suggs and Doom have 24 combined NFL seasons and they only played less than 14 games in a season a combined 5 times.

3.  No they didn't only extend Joe and Suggs.  You're apparently forgetting Jimmy, Monroe, Yanda, Pitta, S.Smith, D.Smith, Dumervil, Weddle, Wallace, Watson, Tucker, Forsett, and others that have been extended or signed in FAs.   For Seattle, they were signing a ton of guys on rookie deals to extensions.  That's MUCH easier and cheaper than re-signing a guy on the end of "2nd contract".  The Ravens also can't help that some of the guys they counted when they were extended/signed in FA to get injured and simply eat up cap (Pitta, Monroe, Watson, etc).  Hindsight is clearly your primary ammo here but but with that you might as well blame Ozzie for not drafting Brady, Sherman, A.Brown, etc also

2 hours ago, allblackraven said:

We all hope but our wishes don't entitle us to talk in terms of "easy win next season". We lost our best WR and we are likely parting ways with our starting RT. Considering there isn't much in FA to try and beef up the O line, who is Roman going to work with, Hurst still?

On defense we already lost our starting and very good linebacker. Suggs and Doom are going to be year older, so are Webb and Weddle. We're likely to part ways with our starting NT and our secondary needs more depth than just a CB opposite from Jimmy Smith.

Everyone involved can declare all the determination in the world to have a winning season next year but it's going to be a big struggle to improve the team in all the areas it needs to be improved in. 

Same format

1. Why is Hurst the only option you mentioned?  Is it because it helps your narrative?  Are we done with FA and the draft already?

2. Yes, we lost one of our 4-5 undrafted starting ILBs.  It's gonna be impossible to replace him (/sarcasm)

3. NT and CB.  Do we have time to replace them at all or are we forced to go into the season with this current roster?  Negativity is fun and all I guess

2 hours ago, frozen joe flacco fan said:

Think what you want but that won't make your dreams come true. This team has real problems to face and they start at the top of the organization. I you think we had an excellent draft in 2016, think again. Other than Ronnie Stanley, who else distinguished himself? Now, you can add an ILB to the laundry list of needs we have heading into the offseason. One has only to compare our team's on the field performance with the playoff teams to see that we are not a playoff caliber team. Its true that we came within a play of beating the Steelers. All that proves is that we are not that much worse than them. It does not mean that we can contend against teams like New England or Atlanta. Our team has a lot of work to do to regain its past glory and it won't happen by wishing it will be so. The organizational culture must change and how will that happen without a new coaching staff? Offense sells tickets, defense wins games and coaches win championships. If you don't believe it, just ask Bill Belichick or Dan Quinn.

Hmm.

1.  Do you really think the 2016 draft was bad?  Dixon, Lewis, Pierce from the undrafted pool?  The only good player was Stanley huh?

2.  Why is ILB added to the list?  We lost a formerly undrafted player at the position.  In the last decade, do you remember how many undrafted ILBs have started and played well for Baltimore?  Not saying it's some guarantee but that's clearly a position the Ravens fill fairly easily.  With how much they reportedly liked Onuwasur, they may already have that filled.

3.  In one post you say the only way to compare is to compare to playoff teams, then ignore that we beat the Steelers convincingly enough and were an arm stretch away from sweeping them.  They were a playoff team, right?

4.  So you think you need the a change coaches to change outcomes?  Let's go back to those Steelers you referenced.  Tell me who their coaches were in 2012 and 2013 when they went 8-8 both years, and then go check out the fact it was the exact same coaches in 2014 when they won the division.  Maybe you don't like the Steelers.  How about the superbowl team, the Atlanta Falcons?  Same HC, OC, and DC this year that they had last year when they were 8-8.  I bet they regret not firing their coaches.....

47 minutes ago, allblackraven said:

Jets in '16 are just one example. We went 8-8, while in 2011 we lost the conference game on a stupid non-catch and missed FG. 

My original comment said - what gives us the right after last 4 seasons, not only after losing to Jets. We aren't playing good football for quite some time now.

Well, at this stage in the we're simply working on assumptions, right?  As of now, I have to assume the front office was honest when they said they wanted more good CBs.  We can directly relate at least 1 loss (likely more) to having 1 above average CB who got hurt with no adequate replacement.  If they keep their word, we are better than an 8-8 team.

We all believe we win at least 1 more game if we simply run the ball more and have balanced play calling.  Well, the front office also talked about that plus the o-line.  They brought in Gregg Roman to show they were serious about that.

We also saw a lot of bad plays due to lack of chemistry between QB and WR.  The QB has already committed to working on that in the offseason for the first time in who knows how long.

There's really no reason to believe the 2017 team will perform the same or worse than the 2016 if just these things see a slight improvement.  Considering Baltimore isn't a team that gets blown out often, little improvement can lead to a big change.  For example, a better backup QB, or #2, and we beat the Giants (9-7).  A win there, and we still have a shot at a WC spot in week 17 and we don't see the completely unmotivated team that we saw that week.  That's 1 small change that potentially added 2 wins.

The powers that be in Baltimore have earned some faith imo.  People complained about the drafts, then look at the 2016 draft.  People talked about the problem of avoiding character risks in the draft, they've changed their stance on that outside of domestic violence.  I see coaches, execs, and players that sound like they refuse to not have another season without a winning record and playoffs.  I've seen an owner call players out by name for the first time ever.  An owner strongly suggest that people at the top and players haven't been doing as great as they should.  I'm seeing a completely different approach, verbally so far as they can't do anything else yet, than what the team has done in forever.  

Since 2000, this team has never had 2 non-winning seasons in a row.  I have no reason to believe everyone involved won't make sure that streak doesn't continue.  I can't speak for everyone else, but this is what "gives me the right" to believe that this team won't be anything other than improved in 2017

31 minutes ago, RavensDieHard21 said:

The constant flux this team has been in for the past 4 years of baffling. Constantly allowing any good-great players leave due to money, then assuming we will just fill their roles through the draft, we then have drafted for almost pure need and paid the price as many of our top picks since 12' have been mediocre. 

My thoughts are gut the roster of contracts of players that don't contribute as well as bloated deals of over the hill players. We need to finally have room for growth. Cut Arrington, Lewis, Watson, keep Webb until after the draft and assess our situation. He's still a quality player. I'd ask doom to taker a cut, if not release him, but then again will Ozzie even use that money this year to improve the team? 

Resign either Wagner or Williams. It would be idiotic to let both walk, especially Wagner. If they both want $10 million a year then see ya later. Resign juice and keep the cap space. 

Overpaying Is not the way to build a successful franchise but some players we let leave were worth it. McPhee got an average deal and we let him go knowing we had two +30 year old rushers. Many hate the idea of overpaying KO, but having an elite O line can make mediocre offensive talent look great. He surrendered 0 sacks and was an All-pro this year. Imagine having Stanley, Yanda, and KO on the line, being able to let Wagner walk for Lewis then only needing to upgrade center? 

People keep forgetting that if KO would have stayed (at 8.5M a season) he'd have been the LT.  So drafting Stanley wouldn't have happened. (KO gave up no sacks but committed 7 penalties btw, 5 of which were holding penalties that prevented him from giving up a sack)

And the Ravens didn't just let good-great players leave.  They tried to resign almost every one only to be outbid.  KO is making elite money for a LT, let alone a LG.  Suggs and Dumervil had just dominated the season before KO left.  With no reason to expect Suggs to tear his achilles in week 1 of 2015 nor for Doom to be injured most of 2016. You simply don't pay a guy 7.5M a year to be the #3 at any position, but hindsight changes that concept I guess.

I am curious, you're saying to let Wagner walk if he wants 10M per year (he's been the #1 RT in two of his three seasons as a starter) but you suggest we should have kept KO at all cost.  They've been equaling dominating at their respective positions, so what's the difference?

10 hours ago, allblackraven said:

Exactly - if we couldn't beat Jets this bad, what gives us the right to say any game next season should be an easy win?

Even in 2014, we got in thanks to Chiefs win over Chargers week 17. We did play OK that season but still relied on others to go through. As far as I'm concerned Harbaugh should have been relieved of the post after this season.

In 2011 we couldn't beat the Jags.  How did that affect our 2012 season?

45 minutes ago, Edug27 said:

You'll definitely get heat for this, as I did as well when I brought up something similar. I'm all for moving on from Mike Wallace. He's not a good fit here and not the type of receiver we need. I throw the phrase "sure handed chain mover" around a lot. We need one of those. Through a trade or free agency. And it doesn't have to be some elite wide out either. Has to be a player who knows how to get open and hold onto the ball. I'm also a bigger believer in Perriman than most. I think he's ready to be the #2 guy come next season. He has a ton to work on, and he will... he's ready to be thrown into the fire.

Also think Camp and Moore need bigger roles. It's all on how we use them. We need to scheme to get these guys open. Hogan and Amendola aren't huge names with all world talents. But they know how to get open and have a system that knows how to use them. Marty will be hard at work this offseason. Flacco will be healthier. I think our offensive line will be stronger with Stanley, Yanda and the additions I'm positive Ozzie will make. I also believe in Maxx. I think he needs to stay healthy and be prepared for a larger role. I think he'll surprise a lot of people given the opportunity. Keep Pitta because of his connection with Flacco. But Pitta can't be the only TE out there. He's a solid possession catcher, but not really a big play maker.  

QB: Flacco

RB: Dixon

FB: Juice

WR: {number 1 TBD} , Perriman, {experienced slot player TBD}, Camp, Moore, {draft pick TBD}

TE: Maxx, Pitta, Boyle

Oline: Stanley, Yanda, {veteran center}, Lewis, {draft pick}

 

I 100% agree with you and the other poster about Wallace and I agree with you about Perriman (I got flamed for that already).

I don't like not having Waller on that TE list though.  Chris Moore also needs to prove he can catch a pass.  Getting open wasn't an issue for him, catching the ball was.  

I don't really get the concept of thinking ILB is a big need now that even requires any consideration in the first two rounds.  We just had an undrafted player there.  In fact, since 2005, we've had more undrafted ILBs next to the "main guy" than we've had drafted players.  Not saying it's a lock that we'll find another undrafted gem for the position, but I don't see the idea of thinking we need a 1st or 2nd rounder there either

Lattimore does have ridiculous recovery speed, and is probably the most NFL ready CB, but I can't say I'd be upset at the team drafting Davis over him.  The old adage of defense winning championships is still true overall imo, but in 2 weeks we'll have an offensive superbowl.  Not to mention having a highly paid QB but not giving him the weapons to succeed.  Plus I'd be surprised if Lattimore is there at 16

12 hours ago, omar586 said:

i think if the ravens ease up on the "character issues thing" we might hit on good talent, too.

Already said they would, minus domestic violence guys.  Woman beaters are still off the radar for Baltimore

^^^ I'm not going to quote the whole post but no, dead cap can't be traded.  And no, Joe will not get an extra 24.5M in his bank account this season.  I think Joe's actual salary, aka money that will deposit into his account in the 2017 season, is around 6M-8M.  And after easy to do research, I see his salary is actually 6M for 2017.

On 1/15/2017 at 5:41 PM, arnie_uk said:

Think Corey Davis is probably the best wr in the class but will go 2nd to Williams. Think he'll be a stud.

Pity we only want a complimentary wideout and not a go to guy

I've been feeling this way also. 

This sucks to hear but I wish him the best.  

6 hours ago, Halshayeji said:

I'm not gonna go back and watch film just to break my heart lol. But I do remember KOs first year. He showed flashes of greatness and flashes of a lost rookie. Lewis didn't jump off my screen as often but also made less mistakes. Maybe it's because KO played a lot of LT as a rookie.

but we can both agree on this. Lewis far exceeded expectations of a 4th rounder and it seems like the sky is his limit. I look forward to him making another leap in his development and hope he stays a Raven for a long time. 

KO played exclusively at RT during the regular season of his rookie year and honestly, he wasn't all that great.  He showed serious strength in the run game but was beat often as a pass blocker.  Without looking, I think he allowed around 9 sacks with another 5 penalties or so.  He was basically Oher.  

But when they moved him to LG in the post season, that's when he became a dominant o-lineman.

Lewis won't be the mauler in the run game that KO was, but he'll be a very good pass blocker and a good run blocker overall

I think it's amazing how easily a few games can make such a huge difference in the perception of a HC.  One extra win in 2013 and they were a playoff team even with all the players lost and the worst run game in league history.  Mosely doesn't fall against the Steelers and he helps wrap up Brown and we sweep and likely beat the Bengals also since the team would have had motivation to actually play.

Just that and Harbaugh makes the playoffs 7 straight years, makes it 8 of 9 years overall, and nobody questions how warm his seat is.  Two games play out differently and Harbaugh is the man practically unanimously as opposed a 50/50 split.

On 1/8/2017 at 7:00 AM, RayRayRaven said:

Dalton signed a pretty big contract but yah hes better than joe but for the playoff record.  we can find a cheaper Dalton though and furthermore we have to. I've appreciated joe flacco but its ovah.  he needs a great oline a stud runnin game and receivers he can trust.and an effective defense.  joe is what you call an expensive date. he is high  maintainence, you know like the woman that has to salon every other day and coordinate outfits with accessories. buys tons of  the best makeup and looks like a man unless shes got all her paint on.  joe needs far too much paint. he got to go two good picks and he gone

 

I think this is my favorite part of anyone's post.

1. Call Dalton better than Flacco
2. Say Flacco needs a great o-line, stud running game, stud WRs, and an effective defense to succeed
3. Fully ignore the fact that Dalton has had all that practically his whole career 

1 hour ago, Bruce_Almty said:

The past 4 drafts we picked 14 players in the first 3 rounds. Only Brandon Williams, CJ Mosley, Tim Jernigan and Ron Stanley have excelled, and Williams looks to be moving on. This team lacks talent.

Is it fair to say they aren't talented if they've been injured?  Kaufusi is one of those players and I doubt anyone has seen enough on an NFL level to say he's not talented.  Maxx was loved his rookie season after he was the last TE standing, but he's been injured a lot lately.  Same with Gillmore.  Of the 13 picks during your chosen timeframe, only Brown, Brooks, and Elam can fairly be called untalented imo.

Now the injuries are another level.  I don't know what you'd call those.

Now, of the 17 picks in the 4th and 5th rounds over the last 4 drafts, at least 8 are pretty talented which is a big deal considering the rounds in question.  These things balance out.  For all the praise the 1996 and 2008 drafts got due to the first 2 picks in each, the remaining picks of both drafts weren't that special (except maybe J.Lewis in 96).  People really need to start looking at entire draft classes and not just the first few rounds.  

So basically Joe and the defense were pretty inconsistent but everyone has their least favorite of the two that they want to put all the blame on?

41 minutes ago, TSizzle00 said:

Your solution is to cut Pitta because of that? Lol you gotta be kidding me. Did we cut Ray Rice when Flacco kept checking down to him too?

Okay, how about this.  Pitta is garbage as a blocker, both against the run and pass.  That means he's purely a receiving TE.  As a receiving TE, he was garbage as he couldn't stretch the field, his 1st down per pass ratio was one of the league's worst IIRC, and he wasn't even much of a TD threat.  His only contribution was catching the many 3 yard passes Joe threw him that the opposing team gladly gave him because it was rare for him to get yac.

3 minutes ago, ellicottraven said:

I don't know if it would be that outlandish to expect a particular employee making 15-20% of the total salary allocation to take a pay cut so the other 52 employees can share some of the money that guy eating up 15-20% of that entire pie gives up some. obviously it is a stupid analogy because a 50K guy needs 60K for survival, but a 20M guy doesn't need 20M for survival...

But, importantly we cannot expect anybody that's negotiated a contracted salary to take a pay cut because they haven't performed commensurate with their remuneration. That should've been thought of prior to the contract. Having said all that, if Joe really wants the Ravens to put together a strong team around him, it wouldn't be ridiculous if he did offer to be accomodating with his salary structure or even giving up some money to hire a veteran guard or Center.

But, if truth be told, even if Joe wanted to do it, Linta will not allow it.

It's incredibly outlandish.  I'd love to see an example of CEOs (since they make far more than 50k) giving up their salary to the employees can have more money.

I don't get the focus on Joe's contract.  How is Ben making about 1 million per year average, and has better talent around him on offense AND still has some decent talent on defense?  How did Peyton, before he retired, make 20M per season and STILL have pretty good offensive talent AND a dominant defense??

It gets old seeing people blame Joe's contract yearly if this team doesn't do great.  

1 hour ago, EdTheMythicalOne said:

You mentioned as a #1 or #2 option, and I took that as YOU MEANT it by stating that Perriman should be at the very least a starting WR and possibly the #1 option. How in the world else could anyone interpret that? Be careful with that hypocrite word. I don't think you have the foundation behind you to utilize the word properly.

I always do what I chose and I don't need your permission. I called you out on your horse stuff and now you are scrambling to back track because I make enough sense to make you realize what you typed was silly.

Which Ravens receiver didn't have a lot of drops? Dennis Pitta. Might be why Flacco tosses the rock to him all the time. Funny how the guy with the most reliable hands gets targeted the most.

No, you give the guy that can make the catches and make the plays the most targets, plain and simple. You don't just toss the rock on a wish....not if you want to win football games.

There you go again, reading into things however you want and calling them fact.  I said "which Ravens WR..." and you respond with a TE.  Way to prove a point for me

In terms of the rest, yes you assumed what I meant and you can stroke yourself as much as you want on thinking you interpreted me correctly, but you'll forever be wrong and wrapped up in your own ego.  No backtracking.  Perriman should definitely be thrown into the starting mix because that's what you draft a WR in the 1st round for.  There is no WR (make sure you read it carefully, maybe twice this time) on the team with a higher ceiling.  There is no WR (again, read the two letters) who didn't have issues with drops.  There is also no WR currently under contract who made the spectacular catches that Perriman did make.  Now if the Ravens go out and sign another starting caliber WR, then maybe the situation goes a different route.  But as of now, there's no reason not to start Perriman.