Purple_City39

2 hours ago, Tank 92 said:

You wrote what you wrote in response to me saying the Ravens ended up with the right guy between Flacco and Ryan.  In no way did you frame it that way when you first made the statement. But yeah,  OK.  lol

And on your side note; I think most would say Joe performed admirably early on in the playoffs considering he was so inexperienced and had zero time as an apprentice behind an NFL franchise QB.   

Not I.  I'm a huge Flacco fan, but his first two playoff seasons were abysmal overall.  Minus some good play in spot moments against the Titans, he was pure trash in the post season as a rookie.  I give him a pass in 2009 due to that really bad hip bruising he had that reportedly kept him from even sitting on the team bus at one point, but I don't know how anybody can look at those five games and say he performed admirably when we've seen rookie QBs, both before and after 08, not look that bad in their first playoff games

15 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Very hard to imagine the Ravens beating that Giants team. They were essentially the 2012 Ravens. Everything clicked at the right time.

Really?  The 2011 Ravens, imo at least, were a better team than the 2011 Giants.  I know for some, not saying you, the logic might be "well they beat the team that beat us so they were better", but match-ups are a big thing in the NFL.  For whatever reason, the Patriots struggle with The Giants.  I can't see Eli and company even having the same little success they did against New England against Baltimore's defense that year.  If I'm not mistaken, 2011 was the season the Ravens offense played 8-9 games against top 10 defenses, so they were battle tested (although failed a few, like Jacksonville) against better defenses than the Giants #25 ranked scoring defense

54 minutes ago, berad said:

Complexity isn't the same as creativity.

I agree with this but execution is vital as well.  Suggs and Doom in 2014 played so well even the fans thought Rashaan Melvin was a good CB up until Brady exposed him.  Jimmy Smith played so well we all thought the rest of the secondary was playing well until he got injured.

To be honest, after re-reading this, these examples can either be excuses for Pees (he's done well when he had talent) or excuses against him (he needs top end superstars to mask his bad schemes).  I personally lead with the former as no DC is looking good without key personnel.  Rex was a living legend at DC in Baltimore up until 07 when McAlister and Pryce got hurt with Adalius Thomas in New England.  Even with Rolle, R.Lewis, Scott, Ngata, Suggs, and Reed (that lineup is ridiculous) all playing most of the season the defense was trash because the top two pass rushers from the previous year were gone (Thomas) or injured (Pryce), and the top CB was hobbled in games or just plain out (McAlister).

46 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

That begs the question - is a pick successful if we get a solid player for 3-4 years?  Or is it successful if we find a player that we actually want to be around for a 2nd contract?

And on the other side of that, is a pick a bust if unexpected injury derails or ruins their career?

I've seen many posts about "Ozzie drafted a bust" all throughout 2015 because Perriman got hurt and in the past because of injuries that couldn't be predicted (see Kindle).  Arthur Brown is an example of a bad draft pick.  Kindle is more of an unfortunate one imo

The most interesting thing about this, and something I've never thought about previously, is that Rice is the only 2nd round pick we've resigned.  Sadly, that worked against the team since he only played one year under the new contract and it was a very bad year for him on the field

11 minutes ago, trevorsteadman said:

While you could argue Jacoby Jones as MVP.... I don't see a case for Boldin really. But you are going to give the award to your quarterback when he had 11 touchdowns and no interceptions in the playoff run. He effectively spread the ball around to everyone.

I've always thought the revisionist history by Ravens fans in regards to Boldin was interesting.  104 yards and a TD in the superbowl is great for a WR, it's never been Superbowl MVP worthy.  I used to think fans viewed his total playoff performance when saying he deserved MVP, but 380 yards and 4 TDs in 4 games as a WR doesn't hold a candle to 1140 yards, 11 TDs, and 0 INTs as a QB.

Jacoby you could make a good argument for though, for the superbowl specifically.  290 all purpose yards and 2 TDs is crazy good

38 minutes ago, EdTheMythicalOne said:

I never had a problem with Torrey. He's a speed burner with decent hands, but he's not a superstar. In the right system he can put up numbers with the right QB. The best season Flacco ever had was with two not so great elite guys that were just burners in Torrey and Jacoby Jones. Sooner or later our guys need to learn that they just can't run and give up on a play simply because their initial route is covered, they need to work to get open. This has been a trend for numerous years and we've had the same receivers coach the whole time. Looking for a place to make a change?

 

Here's the thing, we haven't had the same receivers coach the whole time.  These issues started a loooong time ago and Bobby Engram just got here in 2014.  I can't figure out why our receivers never try to help their QB out minus a few who were probably taught this before they got here (Mason and SSS).  The Packers flat out teach receivers to keep moving when their down their route if covered.  We see the Steelers receivers do it all the time as Ben made a career of "backyard football".  Our guys run their route......and then watch Joe to see what he does next while the corner stands next to them

6 hours ago, frozen joe flacco fan said:

Here's the difference, Mr. Purple. One Smith reported back for active duty when our season was on the line; the other Smith didn't. One demonstrated his old-school toughness; the other Smith shutdown his game due to, IDK, poor conditioning, nagging injury-proneness, concussion protocol or whatever. The point is he wasn't there. The other walking wounded including Yanda, Dumerville and Suggs played in the Pittsburgh game and nearly pulled it out without All-World Jimmy. Wouldn't that have been a story for the Jimmy lovers? Don't get me wrong, Mr. Purple, Jimmy's good but maybe he's not the impact player that you think he is.

Samari Rolle probably isn't a good analogy. Didn't he play in the same backfield with three or four other All-Pro caliber defenders?

Steve Smith got injured in the first half of the season.  Missed 4 games to let his injury heal.  Jimmy Smith got injured with only 4 games to go.  Do you really think any player is playing on an injured ankle to just impress fans?  If Jimmy, and the coaches, were stupid enough to let him play, you'd have likely seen a performance worse than any you've ever seen of a CB because no CB can "tough it out" on a high ankle sprain.

And 3 to 4 all pro's in the backfield is a stretch.  Reed, McAlister......that's it.  And McAlister missed 18 combined games in 07 and 08 and Samari still stayed on the defensive right side.  Even as Fabian Washington lined up at the LCB against number ones in 08.  I think in 07 our LCB position featured studs like Corey Ivy, Derrick Martin, and David Pittman.  And no matter who it was, Samari stayed at RCB.  Let your best lock down one side, and roll coverage to the other.

13 hours ago, Tru11 said:

i cant think of 1 play off game where flacco was pressured over 60% of the time and played great.

probably because he usually has good protection when we make the play offs.

 

2011 Divisional round against Houston.  They manhandled our o-line.  Joe didn't light the world up, but I don't recall any turnovers and he had a solid 2 TDs.  The Patriots game after featured a ton of pressure also as Wilfork abused Grubbs, Birk, and Yanda all first half.  Can't say if either were or weren't at 60% though.  I just remember thinking "wow, Joe is getting massacred out there"

Just now, BmoreBird22 said:

Were they off the field for 90+ minutes with Alex Mack having a broken bone in his leg? Yes or no?

Matt Ryan was pressured on 16 of 28 drop backs in this game. I'll try to find the stat if I can, but pressure matters to every single quarterback. It doesn't matter if your guys can get open quickly or not if your main concern is making sure the 300 pound player barreling down on you isn't hitting you. Matt Ryan was the ONLY quarterback to not throw an interception under pressure. 

Sure, yes.  How long was the Ravens offense off the field?

I'm going to disagree.  If your OC is calling up plays that have the QB throwing in 2 seconds, and WRs are getting open almost immediately, pressure won't bother QBs that much.  Again, Ryan isn't scrambling or buying time.  He's performing quick passes.  If Ryan hikes the ball, is looking right the whole two seconds and throws, never seeing the defender on the left who would have sacked him at 3-4 seconds, did the pressure bother him?

11 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

The Falcons offense was off the field for nearly 90 minutes until they got the ball back at half. That's a major blow to momentum.

The thing, as well, is that Matt Ryan had a really good game. He generally lead his team to great positioning on the field and put them in position to get points, before they shot themselves in the foot.

But Ryan was pressured on nearly 60% of his drop backs. You truly think Joe is going to play well under that much duress? Not a chance. Ryan was very special this year under pressure. Pretty sure Flacco was well below the league average.

So we're giving Ryan and excuse because his defense scored a pick 6, thus giving New England another possession while down an additional TD?  That's no unexpected in game situations.  The power going out for 35 minutes after haf time is an unexpected situation

Where is that pressure stat?  I'm curious.  And yes, I think if Joe has that run game, and those WRs (name the last time Ravens WRs got open as often as the Falcons WRs did or made multiple catches like Julio) then yes, I think he'd have played very well under pressure as well.  Pressure sucks when your guys can't get open quickly.  Pressure matters less when they can.  It's not like Ryan was juking and stiff arming defenders.  He simply threw the ball to the open WR.

26 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Joe led the Ravens to six points in the second half (1 less than Ryan) as the Ravens held a 28-6 lead. This was so incredibly similar to the Ravens, expect the Ravens had a very experienced defense that was able to hold strong.

Yeah, but that's why I added "that offense".  The Ravens had momentum drained thanks to a long power outage as well.  But in terms of the teams:

Atlanta's run game averaged 5.7ypc last night vs the Ravens' 2.6ypc.  Matt got more help without a doubt on this end.

Boldin was great for that superbowl run, but he was no Julio Jones in terms of ability (and didn't draw consistent double teams).  The rest of Atlanta's WRs greatly outplayed the rest of Baltimore's in their respective superbowls as well.

I just can't see Joe being the Falcons QB last night and not winning the game.  Joe's best games are when the running game is thriving

Just now, OUravensfan said:

Still can't believe Atlanta blew it, their fanbase deserves to be trolled right now, they let evil prevail. Kraft was classless in his speech, same with NE fans, everyone's fault but their own. I'm just greatful we are not Falcon fans.

As an Atlanta resident, let me tell you that these fans are pissed off or depressed right now.  Sports radio still calls it the best Falcons season ever (which is sad if you think about it.  Best season ever features the worst superbowl collapse in history).  Someone's actually talking about it right now in the hall way and you can hear the sadness in his voice

8 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

We all love to say that all Joe needs is an offensive line and he'll be good. Well, Ryan got all the weapons, but absolutely no offensive line. It was a very similar situation to what is going on in Indy right now. 

And as far as Turner goes, he had one really great season and some good seasons, but the Falcons never had the one-two punch the Ravens always had (McGahee, McClain, Williams, Pierce), so even if Turner is rushing for 80 YPG, that's about all the Falcons were rushing for. Plus, Rice was always a vastly better receiver who could actually split out and make catches. Turner was good for MAYBE a catch a game and really had no versatility to be a great receiving threat that would command respect from defenses.

Freeman and Coleman are now the best duo in the league, but they've been it for one year. So, one year out of nine. One really good year of Turner, so two years out of nine where the running game was really a major driving force in the Falcons success.

If you're comparing the run games of the two teams since the 08 draft, it's worth noting that Atlanta had a better rushing attack in 4 of those seasons (2008, 2010, 2015, and 2016).  Now, whereas that does give Flacco the lead with 5 years of having a better rush attack, one of those 5 years was 2013 where we all know that rush offense was pure trash.  We beat out Atlanta in yards per game, but they had the better ypc (3.1 vs 3.9) and more rushing TDs (7 vs 11) so I'd really call that a wash as both rushing offenses were....offensive.  So they both sit at 4 out of 9 seasons with a run attack worth mentioning that was better than the other's. 

In terms of any debates between the two, it really comes down to one thing to me.  I feel both would have still made the playoffs a bunch of times if they had swapped teams, but I still think Joe would have played better in the playoffs (I'd assume nobody thinks he'd do worse, performance wise, with all the Falcons talent over the years).  And I just can't see Joe losing yesterday with that offense.  I can't see Joe being unable to lead that offense to more than 1 score in the entire second half, not while having a WR make circus catches and another that was breaking ankles on the field as if this was the NBA.

On 2/4/2017 at 1:06 AM, usmccharles said:

A CB cant get interceptions if the WR is covered...and the qb doesnt even throw the ball his way....

I stopped reading after that sentence, pretty sure that was a good idea

So I'm not the only one that was happy he could stop reading that long post after the first sentence.  I remember Asante Samuel getting, I think, 10 INTs in a season he gave up 12+ TDs.  Any time I see someone judge a CB purely on INTs, I know the convo is pointless

58 minutes ago, frozen joe flacco fan said:

 

 

Sorry, but I'll wait 'til the movie comes out. 

Suffice it to say, a rookie named Jalen Ramsey and 8 other CBs were rated better than Jimmy, according to your highly touted Next Gen Stats.com. As a footnote, the website explained that the rating was based only on the top corner from each team. So, it discounted the possibility that some other more reliable, "stay on the field" type CBs may have been left off the list. I wonder if the rating awards any points for durability? I'm not among the Jimmy critics who want him traded. I jest want him to stay on the field. Someone on the blog posted that Jimmy has missed 22 games in 6  seasons. Here's a stat for U: That's ~25% of the games during that span. That's why he hasn't gotten the big payday; that's why he doesn't go the Pro Bowl and that's why he will not ever be in the HOF like Deion Sanders is. Jimmy's a good CB when he's healthy and he is by far our best CB but that's not saying much. He always plays right CB. There are other corners who are more versatile and can play different roles as needed. That's what separates Jimmy from some of the best CBs in the league. The Patriots and the Seahawks teams are famous for the versatility of their defenders. Again, suffice it to say, Jimmy has a good reputation but anybody who has played in organized sports knows you can't play on your reputation. He should get an incentive contract next year and his 1st incentive should be --- to play in 16 games.

SSS came back after his ankle injury and played thru the pain of that after coming back from an Achilles tear. Humm! Elvis Dumerville had an Achilles tear and played thru it. BTW, R U Jimmy's agent? If so, tell him the truth, which is he is not a Top 5 CB yet! That being said, I hope 2017 is his year! I hope he proves all the Jimmy critics and doubters wrong. Quite frankly, I think a big part of Jimmy's problem is analogous to a problem Joe Flacco has but I'll leave that for another post later.

Editor's Note: Yeah, Adam Jones is a baseball player for the Baltimore Orioles. I would never quote anything from Adam 'Pacman' Jones.

  

Um, first Jimmy already got a big payday.  Not sure why you think he hasn't, and he won't be getting an incentive laden contract next year.  Probowl means little since they've become popularity contest.  How long before Ngata finally got voted to one?  Brandon Williams?  Weddle was rated best safety in the game and he was an alternate.

Second, I'm wondering how deeply you watch these games.  Jimmy can definitely play both sides (his first two years were primarily at the LCB position) so I don't know why his versatility is in question.  He's also shadowed multiple WRs all game long no matter where they went.  The coaching staff choosing to have him focus on a side doesn't diminish his skill just like it doesn't for Sherman and Norman, who also primarily play one side.  Remember Samari Rolle?  He never left the defensive right side either regardless of whether Frank Walker or Fabian Washington was lined up opposite him.  That's a coaching decision, not player

Last, Steve Smith missed 4 games (5 weeks including the bye) after his ankle injury yet you're praising him yet blasting Jimmy for missing 4 games after an ankle injury 

Between the two.......I'd prefer getting Marshall and letting Perriman take the #2 spot and then praying either Camp stays healthy or Moore learned how to catch.

Okay, reasonably I'd take Torrey between the two.  At least Joe seemed confident throwing deep to Torrey since they had their "omg, there's no safety coverage, let's bomb it"  connection

10 hours ago, frozen joe flacco fan said:

Dude, I don't need to look at the Next Gen stats to see that there were several CBs better than Jimmy in the league this year. Stats are for losers and mean nothing. How many passes did he defend? He didn't shut down anybody in the games he missed due to the high ankle sprain and a concussion. Someone else said he had back problems. Don't we all? The only person who was shut down in those games was Jimmy. Buckle up your chin strap, son, and stay on the field! Do your job! Oh, that's right! That's the Patriots. Well, how 'bout play like a Raven? How 'bout playing thru an injury like Marshall Yanda did? That's what an All--Pro does. Quit making excuses! BTW, I have the same concern about others on the team who can't seem to stay on the field. It's becoming an epidemic with this team. Maybe that's just bad luck as someone said or maybe we're not drafting physically and mentally tough players like we used to. I saw the play that caused him to miss the critical stretch run. He was injured making a tackle. Its supposed to be the other way around, dude. You kick the guy's butt in front of you or he'll kick yours. Its not a mystery. I just hope Jimmy didn't read the Next Gen Stats 'cause he might start believing he has nothing more to prove. I don't know what games you were watching but Jimmy and the rest of our defenders play way too far off the ball. By doing so, they can compensate for their lack of speed and coverage skills. They rarely were quick enough to jump routes. Jimmy and his mates gave up far too many short passes this year. Yes, we are a better defense with him on the field but the whole team needs to play better. Stay on the field, Jimmy, and show the world what it means to "Play like a Raven." As Adam Jones likes to say, "Show up, Put up and Shut up!" Just DO YOUR JOB!

For the first bold part, do you actually think a CB should stay on the field with a high ankle sprain???  Serious question.  Do you also know it's beyond a players control when they are in concussion protocol?  How was he supposed to play through those

For the second bold part, you're probably not going to believe this..........but most defenders get hurt trying to make a tackle minus ligament/muscle tears.  As crazy as it sounds, that's not exclusive to Jimmy Smith

For the 3rd bold part, are you really questioning his coverage skills in a thread that points out, flat out, that only one NFL CB allows a lower completion percentage in coverage?

EDIT:  I also thought you meant Bengals Adam Jones.  My mistake on that

32 minutes ago, berad said:

Only thing with Marshall is that he's been on 3 teams since then (soon to be 4 if he does get cut) and has thoroughly worn out his welcome in each city. It's not like the Dolphins owner is bemoaning the tough decision to let him go 4+ years later like Bisciotti is.

The Ravens have great locker room chemistry. Is that still the case when a documented locker room cancer rolls into town?

That's since 2010 though.  We're Mike Wallace's 4th team since that same point in time.

The locker room cancer thing I can't really argue.  Seems like he's been a problem everywhere.  Who knows, maybe it's just a serious "competitive spirit".  I mean, Steve Smith Sr did punch his teammate in the eye.  I don't think I've heard of Marshall getting into actual fights with teammates.  His Denver issues were over the top though

2 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

Here we go

 

Jeff Zrebiec of the Baltimore Sun believes the Ravens "would at least inquire" about Brandon Marshall if he becomes a free agent.

Marshall is owed a reasonable $7.5 million in the final year of his deal, but the Jets can save all of that against the cap if they release him. Considering he has seemingly worn out his welcome in the locker room and is clearly on the downside of his career, it would not be surprising if they move on. Marshall would fit right in with Derrick Mason and Steve Smith Sr. as veteran receivers the Ravens have added at the tail-end of their careers, and he would offer a good possession presence opposite Mike Wallace or Breshad Perriman. If Marshall is cut, the Ravens should be one of the favorites to land him.

Source: Baltimore Sun

If this happens I'd be one happy fan.  Nothing against Boldin, but I remember wanting Marshall that same year since they were both trade options (although not for the two 2nd round picks Miami gave up).  He had a very down year last year and 3 season ago, but with his size and skill set, he should be able to play another 3 years, at least, at a high level in the right system and he can definitely be that "complimentary receiver" the front office talks about.  

Pair Marshall with Wallace and Perriman and aggressively go after a top CB in the first round of the draft.

I do find it interesting that a lot of the time, people compare Joe to Rodgers/Brady, as if those two aren't all time greats and future first ballot HoF players.  Sure, we can want Joe to match that, but if you're honest and can truly dissect football, you'll know he's not on their level and never will be.

Then again, most comparisons are pretty bad.  Sure Matt Ryan has all those great stats yearly, but he's also had better offensive talent yearly.  Ryan's had worse defenses so he sees less regular season wins also.  Difference between the two is who steps up when it really matters. Ryan just started playing well in January in his two most recent playoff appearances with superior talent

12 hours ago, frozen joe flacco fan said:

I find your post amusing. While Ray was not playing at full strength the year we won the Super Bowl and was certainly past his peak, he was an inspiration to his teammates on and off the field. That's an intangible. His leadership and inspiration was highly motivational for the team and they rode the crest of an emotional wave to and thru the SB.

 

I don't get this line of thinking.  The 2012 defense was average at best all year.  The 49ers are tied for the NFL record for most points scored in a superbowl loss.  Did Ray not inspire the players that played next to him?  And will we also ignore that players have come out and said Ray's words don't do much for them?  I know Flacco himself has said it and he was the MVP of that superbowl run easily.  Defenders have said it also, like McAlister years ago for example.

Harbaugh's team won that superbowl regardless.  Only 5 members were part of Billick's regime (Yanda, Suggs, Ray, Ed, and Koch).  And we're apparently going to ignore the injured teams since Ray's departure that were a game short of being in the playoffs (2013), barely lost the divisional round to the eventual champs (2014), and heavily injured (2015).  Let's also act like the Ravens never missed the playoffs 3 of 4 years when Ray was rah rah'ing it up all game long and in his prime (2002-2005).

I'm starting to think those that say the team should get rid of Jimmy because of injuries are people that think it's easy to find a corner of his caliber when it really isn't (see corners between Rolle's departure after 08 and Webb's high level of play in 2011).

12 games of a healthy Jimmy Smith & 4 games of his backup >>>>  16 games of any other CB on this team

9 hours ago, CalvinSmoke said:

Sadly the ravens have proved they don't need stars. They game plan well enough to the point where good role players get it done. No one from that Super Bowl offense has been considered top 10... Maybe even top 20 of their position. 

If this where Madden, all our offense needs is 75-83 overall players.

I'm pretty sure Yanda was considered a top 10 guard in 2012.  And as previously mentioned, Matt Birk and Ray Rice were top 10 at their positions also.  

I get your point though that this team doesn't need a bunch of superstars to win a superbowl.  Even this season, just a few minor changes would have made Baltimore a playoff team with the roster they had (running the ball more and at the right times and Jimmy staying healthy.  Literally just these two changes would have added at least 2 wins)

It's really a shame that Jimmy is considered injury prone.  A broken foot, two ankle sprains, a concussion, and a sports hernia are more bad luck than "injury prone" to me since those aren't all that preventable.  Maybe he could heavily tape his ankles more, idk.

Hopefully he can play and start another 16 games this year like he did in 2013 and 2015.